a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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One might say that the Pineapple of Truth is Golden.
Interesting poem, thanks for sharing (and writing, if it's yours)!
Just look at this nonsense: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/1033
"No murdering, griefing, taking over towns, chaos, pandemonium, grief groups, starving and boxing of towns, covering up wells."
So basically, it sounds like Shadie116 never had fun playing the game as intended, if he ever tried to play the game as intended in the first place.
"Pretty much anything that was fun and put a challenge on the players."
The kid talks of challenge. But honestly, simply can't take up the challenge of playing for maximum gene score or as the game got intended. Instead shadie116 makes up his own idea of "challenge", instead of taking on some external goal that he didn't set.
"We built grand structures and took down great towns. It was some real group collaboration that was just sucked away with the changing of a variable. You ruined some really good moments."
No, locking in a town in a fence so that no one can get out is not civilization building. People who made walls in the real world made it so that their people inside could go out if they wanted to. They didn't build a wall and then mass commit suicide or starve their self.
"now things like this are hardly even possible, you've walled this game."
This is plain wrong. There were far more walls during The Rift, including the barrier and fenced in towns (with gates) as a regular sort of thing.
"Another thing I'd like to iterate is that it is through conflict that advancements were made in society."
No, making of engines, radios, glass bottles, etc. is not made through conflict. That holds for both real ones and those objects in OHOL also.
"They were learning and pushing, we we're getting better at setting up the apocalypse..."
No apocalypse has happened on bigserver2 since April of 2022. If people were getting better at such, why didn't any happen after April 2022 that year or in 2023?
"you made restricting any free thinking or anything that would change the way the game was played and it is that I find troubling"
Free thinking did not get restricted as evidenced by the above statement. Griefing didn't change the way that people played such that people ended up engaging more in parenting or civilization building. They did those things *less* because of griefing, because they had to spend time countering people like Shadie116 or quit.
"Its what made the game not fun and what made it generic and what causes it to spike during Christmas and other holidays where people are celebrating ..."
No, griefing did not lead to that player influx. There was a video by CHRBRG, which as of now, has over 400,000 views: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNu4E3-_HtQ&t=98s It was also holiday break.
"Most people just get bored and go afk you've rerouted the best aspect of life ..."
It is inconsistent to say that conflict comes as part of the best aspect of life, but to block people who disagree with you. And also to spend time writing instead of say engaging in competitive wrestling or some combative sport.
"You forgot the real collaboration involved in all this is bounded by a problem, when you got guides to every problem on a website this game is just a building simulator."
It says "a ... game of ... civilization building" above. The game is intended as a building simulator. So, this comment implies that things have improved and ended up more inline with how it has gotten advertised.
"Or you could be on the other side planning on how to raid a city ..."
That isn't part of civilization building, nor parenting. Nor is it trying to maximize survival time for all players.
"So what you have done is sucked the concept of SURVIVAL,"
Survival involves continuing to exist. Genetic score, from what I can tell from seeing the top leaderboard numbers, ends up higher on average than it was before the curse and bear changes. Consequently, the concept of survival ends up enhanced, because people survive longer. What has gotten sucked out of the game comes as anti-survival people like Shadie116.
"And LARGE SCALE COLLABORATION out of this game it looks like that girl is really trying to survive those threating bears"
Luring bears isn't trying to engage in multiplayer survival. It's trying to kill people who aren't trying to harm others, and consequently is against multiplayer survival.
"SO IN THE END I AM SAYING YOU HAVE RUINED THE MOTIVATIONS FOR ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING BUT FARM, CHAT, AND BUILD. "
No, there's still parenting. But, it's not supposed to involve killing people just for the sake of killing. Multiplayer survival involves trying to get everyone to survive as much as possible. Anyone trying to kill others who aren't harmful, isn't playing for the sake of multiplayer survival. They aren't trying to build civilization also.
Shadie116, if you're reading this, your post in fact indicates that the changes made the game more in line, or in other words consistent, with how it comes as intended. You indicate that people aren't trying to get rid of griefers as much as before. That means that players have MORE time and thus MORE ability to survive, parent, or civilization build. As I said before, the Github is for bugs, issues, or inconsistencies. What you put on the Github has no place there, since it instead shows that the game works *better* and more inline with how it's intended to work. So, it should get closed.
Now, will you actually learn from this and close your issue? That's where knowledge would lead you. Or will you, again, show that you lack the courage to do things inline with any external standard?
This update is still only relevant for servers where Eve chaining is possible. It is not relevant for bigserver2 and server1.
If there exists concerns about Eve chaining in the future, it might help to check logs a day or two (or more) after it seemed that Eve chaining did not occur. Perhaps the above comment of mine may help someone in reading the logs.
Public Life Log Data is here: http://publicdata.onehouronelife.com/publicLifeLogData/
For Saturday, February 10th, 2024 I find the following:
"B 1707570533 1012195 7c495603f300f0d8eec6cba27c7d2ecf59fcd27c F (-23750,112) noParent pop=1 chain=1 race=D
D 1707573293 1012195 7c495603f300f0d8eec6cba27c7d2ecf59fcd27c age=60.00 F (-23687,49) oldAge pop=0
B 1707573298 1012196 7c495603f300f0d8eec6cba27c7d2ecf59fcd27c F (-23685,50) noParent pop=2 chain=1 race=C"
Assumptions: "noParent" implies that a person was an Eve. The '7c495603f300f0d8eec6cba27c7d2ecf59fcd27c' is a unique identifier which identifies a player's account. 'B' stands for 'birth' and 'D' for death.
So, that person dies at age 60 at position (-23687,49) on the map. The next life they get born at (-23685,50), which is less than 5 tiles away from where they died on the previous life. That comes as consistent with having Eve chained.
In contrast, a player not Eve chaining will spawn at least 40 tiles away from the previous Eve spawn. An example can get seen during the same day:
"B 1707525534 1012190 b3ca4d3743a03e59b51b5bec43b6b7464b15bc97 F (-25474,-6) noParent pop=1 chain=1 race=A
D 1707525683 1012190 b3ca4d3743a03e59b51b5bec43b6b7464b15bc97 age=16.47 F (-25425,-81) hunger pop=0
B 1707525934 1012191 b3ca4d3743a03e59b51b5bec43b6b7464b15bc97 F (-25490,-44) noParent pop=1 chain=1 race=F"
16 tiles left and 38 tiles down makes for more distance than one would expect from Eve chaining.
I also note that forman didn't report this issue on the Github (though did file other Github reports), so I guess the above post got made in error. We all make mistakes.
Or I missed a change and/or a Github report.
Or Eve chaining works sometimes, but other times does not for some unknown reason.
Also, before this update, the max flight distance on any server was 10,000 tiles! https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … a04ff07375 Families were over 500,000 tiles from the Original Methman Monument on bigserver2. After a week, *as I write this*, there still have not existed any changes to the plane distance, and families even further away.
"Airplane changes not live yet." https://discord.com/channels/3282153002 … 5039839283
There was no plan whatsoever on how this thing would work for bigserver2 or server1 for that matter for more than a week after it got released. Apparently, there does not exist any plan how an Additional Methman Monument would get built in a few weeks or months from now also.
I don't believe that there exists any plan as to how such would get reached on server1 even after airplane changes.
Again, an outsider perhaps would look at this update and conclude that the game gets developed for players playing on server 3 through server 15.
So far...
Good as a low pop server update. I especially like how it requires going back to slightly right of the origin. Since an Additional Methman Monument requires plans from an Original Methman Monument, making an Additional Methman Monument can get thought of as rebuilding something civilized from scratch!
But, it does end up bad as an update for bigserver2 or server1 at present though. It is dead content right now. Even with increased plane distance, it is either still dead content or soon could easily become permanently dead content on those servers.
Perhaps an outsider would believe that this game gets developed for people on servers with less than 15 players on them.
The notion of players having "The Button" became strained, at best, in the post-Rift world with the Tarr monument in a fixed position (it should sit in a fixed position). The Apocalypse does NOT reset Eve spawns to their original area. That contrasts with the hard wipes Jason has done before where Eve spawns reset to near (0, 0) where the Tarr monument sits.
It becomes even more strained, and indeed nonsensical that players have "The Button" with the recent Methman Memorial Update.
Some of MaDcOw's comments from the discord on this subject:
"If the apoc had diff stages of things happening that made the whole map want to play on a good/bad side, I don't see the apoc as a bad thing" 3/5/2023.
"If it killed everyone and reset to 0,0 it would be at least semi useful" 5/15/2021.
"Which is sad
Nothing cool to explore post apoc" 05/15/2021 (because Eve spawns are not reset)
I suggest you have a guess what 'F.' stands for in the above, and put your answer below please. Especially if you think bigserver2 is in the F. stage.
For anyone thinking that an Apocalypse resets Eve spawn locations back to near (0, 0), I checked logs and found that Eve spawn positions remain roughly the same after an Apocalypse. So, even though the Apocalypse may start a new arc, it can leave a server in the F. stage.
Since we've had consistently leftward moving Eve spawns for a while now, and now two monuments near the start of Eve spawns, this allows us to organize stages of the arc.
1. The Walking Stage:
Players can walk in a single life to the Tarr Monument or the Original Methman Monument.
2. The Stone Road Stage: Players need a stone road to reach the monuments in a single life.
3. The horse stage: Players need a horse to reach the monuments.
4. The truck stage: Players need a vehicle as fast as a truck to reach the monuments in a single life.
5. The sportscar stage: Players need a vehicle as fast as a sportscar to reach the monuments in a single life.
Stages of the arc could get further extended by considering how long it takes to travel to the monuments on a road. Or with something like a crude or sports car trip followed by a plane trip.
We might also think of stages of the arc in terms of how many generations it would take a family to journey to the monuments.
Another stage of the arc:
F. We're so far from the monuments, that they may as well not exist. It is either too difficult or impossible to journey back there, even with ghost farming, or almost perfect play.
On bigserver2 families are over 560,000 tiles from the monuments. Yikes, who perhaps has more hours than anyone else and is a very fast player, has claimed that it's impossible to get there now. There were some calculations on discord by SoloAceMouse that after farming ghost mode, someone might drive there in 8 hours. But, the more I think about that, such is either too demanding or uninteresting. Bigserver2 is in the F. stage of the arc.
If we're in the F. stage of the arc, then Eve spawns should get shifted right so that we're in a more reasonable stage. A shift of Eve spawns back to their starting position would make for a simple solution. All the way back to the origin. It also seems implied by Jason's pictures: https://imgur.com/vkHTmGi
Server1 Eve spawn according to logs, e. g. here: http://publicdata.onehouronelife.com/pu … nesday.txt, is over -129,791 tiles from the monuments. If there's a new player influx due to some highly popular YouTube video, it seems likely it will become active, but then become inactive during low population hours. I believe server1 is also in the F. stage of its arc.
I don't know about server2, because I don't know if Eve chaining works there or not, and forman made a post that it did not work on that server (though he did not file a bugreport, so I don't know if he was sure).
Due to Eve chaining, I think the other servers are not in the F. stage of their arcs, though I haven't check how far out their Eve spawns are.
Edit: Someone and their alt also might make it to the monuments. But, using one's alt that way involves a significant amount of /die, and possibly abandoning someone else out in the woods, if not inevitably doing so. Also, ru has expressed doubts about that as feasible. The margin of error is small. It's a lot of time. It seems to fall into the "walking simulator" genre.
I don't think that Tarr quite asserted that a reset would do nothing.
Reset will do nothing.
16:49:00
I will be starting a trip to 0-0 to find a place for you guys to build a proper memorial.
17:02:37
These statements are not consistent.
I mean, if we had arc resets, Eve spawns would go back to around 0-0. So, building a memorial on bs2 could get accomplished. Also, crafting additional methman monuments would be possible. At least if it's craftable, which I'm not so sure it is, since it says "UNCRAFTABLE" on onetech.info, even though it looks like there exist previous steps which make it also: https://onetech.info/4956-Additional-Me … ith-Chisel
I'm watching Dox's stream right now as a white Eve. He's in, I think, Saltea's old town.
Do I need to do an estimation on how far away the Original Methman Monument is from living families now?
I do feel you have a touching tribute above though.
Early game does not exist. It is the most perfected part of the game and any pro player can climb through the hoops to get a place settled easily.
O. K., since the early arc game doesn't exist at present, but since it is the most perfected part of the game, then it would be in the better interest of the developer to have resets happen monthly or bi-monthly. That way people would experience the game at it's best more often, have better experiences, and maybe even tell people about the game more often.
The very words you use, fug, suggest that kaden is correct on the main point.
The game also requires every race besides whites to function which encourages people dumping kerosene or clothes or trucks on new towns to help ease the game.
Kerosense? Yes. That seems encouraged, since getting it later can become problematic. Trucks? I don't know. I did an oil well for tan Groots the other night with a rubber tire horsecart. No truck. Alright, I went to the same Groot family generations later the other day as a male white Spoon and Tuurd said that they had four or five trucks and offered me one after saying that he knew I wouldn't take it. And traveling between families ends up taking time. So, I'll give you that one. Dumping trucks gets encouraged by races. But clothes? Clothes are first for function, then for fashion.
Why would anyone want to build from complete scratch when YOU or your FRIENDS are the ones setting things back to zero by killing off a family.
O. K., so what relevance does his bad behavior have to whether regular arc resets would help the game or not? Honestly, to me it looks like you just want to try to refute his position, because of his bad behavior. But just because someone is an asshole, that doesn't mean her (or his) argument is wrong! Kaden isn't the first person who has suggested arc resets as potentially helpful. Forman, frodo, paradoxal, some others, and myself have claimed such.
Also, nope, you're wrong about them setting things back to zero. They didn't erase any objects on the server. There were new Eves for some races yes, but not all races at the same time. Early game arc reset period doesn't involve only some Eve out in the wilderness who maybe starts a new location with the first tools, or goes and scavenges a dead town, or goes and resettles a dead town. It involves all (or almost all) *families* rebuilding from scratch. From nature. From nothing. From the ground up. Your family has a loom? Some ancestor of your family likely made it after someone else went out to get rubber supplies (or maybe the same person). You have a rubber tire horsecart? Probably someone in your family went out and got rubber supplies justly or unjustly with the help of another living family.
Maybe I could even answer your question more concisely as follows:
*Because such a person believes that trading or stealing or charity is better than scavenging or repurposing*.
During the early (arc) game ... that most perfected part of the game, scavenging and repurposing are out, or at least minimized. Players trade or steal or engage in charity.
Also, I guess you think fug that an early arc spring tapout by an adjacent family is one of the most perfected parts of the game. Well, I can't say it's forgettable in my experience. But, I digress.
The video referenced in the original post predates the temperature overhaul. I would guess after the steam release.
I logged in about 11:45 A. M. this morning.
Blacks, tans, and gingers all past generation 40. Gingers and tans both started on Sunday also. The Goths (not a family name) were generation 6, but they could have easily just walked to some other family and joined them, since that's what the real Goths did.
I was the first Torch.
I spawned in snow next to some seals. I had my first two children soon after while making tools and/or looking for a spot to settle.
Once I found a spot, early on I felt worried about my children starving, because though I had found a spot with iron veins close and some clay pits, we seemed to have less wild food than usual. But, they did well.
I checked my leaderboard after the Eve run, and saw that my 1st and 3rd child were the same person. No use of /die in between. My sixth child was the same as my eighth (counting the /die babies). No use of /die in between. My boy was on his 5th life.
My 1st child lived to 9, and then lived to 59 on the 2nd life. The sixth child who became the 8th child, lived to 41 by a wild boar. So, it doesn't seem that either person got soured by dying and decided to not play or quit earlier in the next life.
Snowy Torch is one of the funnier names I've seen in this game. I learned that name had appeared before via a search... I was Eve Torch about a month ago also, but I hadn't seen the 'Snowy Torch' name before.
A Russian streamer visited Torch town after Torch family died: https://www.twitch.tv/moon_krendel/video/2047208500
Maybe a cargo plane with more item slots ...
Did you really just ask for that? *headdesk*
"Regarding your issue it's pretty simple, if you think about it how does that make sense to have in the same world a group that already is at the end of the techtree and another one that just started their first berry farm?
It's as if Europe was using electricity, cars etc and America just discovered fire or the opposite, even supposing that this scenario exist what do you think would happen?
Would it make sense with our current history or just in general?
Of course there's going to be issues because it doesn't make any sense.
And this problem will only get worse the more stuff is added to the game.
New cargo plane added! [emphasis in original]
Let me pack it up with with every important tech in the game plus large ammounts of found, find the nearest Eve camp using the latest localisation radar and boost them from small camp to advanced civilisation."
- Dodge
http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewto … 20#p102620
"Awbz told me that in multiplayer Terraria someone would be throwing advanced objects at players at early stages. His complaint was "you shouldn't be able to have/do things that early". It wasn't so much that someone was doing that, but one couldn't get away from such players and still player multiplayer Terraria. In OHOL players use rubber tire horsecarts, or trucks to throw clothes, wood, "specialty" foods, tools etc. at players living in camps on a shallow well or deep well. I've seen this happen Or even, if I recall correctly, a cart gets used for a site's resources before the family living there even has made a steel file. Also, the game is advertised as being about rebuilding from scratch with others, which makes such situations contradictory to what it gets advertised as ..."
- Spoonwood from the same link.
I was Eve yesterday and I checked the springs directly east and west of me for good iron spots.
I thought it was two days ago you were Eve as Eve Spring and you were daughter of Eve Kyle yesterday? Anyways, minor detail. I think from the dry springs I saw watching Hope Kyle http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … d=10146834, I can say with confidence that Eve Kyle didn't move around to find a spot. The spring nearest to her fire was a dry spring pointing northeast to gingers. It was her daughter who found the spot, and Eve Kyle didn't know to look. She just didn't have any relevant experience.
If an Eve is Black and the other last Eve was Ginger, it's more likely that there exist iron mines right of your spawn spot.
But, if the last Eve settled in an adjacent band, then the algorithm puts the next Eve at a spot where the previous Eve/family can have tapped out mines to the right of their closest spring. In other worse, I think spawning point is currently 20-40 tiles left of the tapout radius of the last dug well... but shifted to stay in band (if the square wave pattern hasn't gotten applied by Eves getting bite by wolves or something like that: http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8344) That leaves 4 possible mine sites to the left/west if the Eve doesn't move. The closest spring has all mines to the right tapped out if the families are ginger/white, white/ginger, white/tan, tan/white, tan/black, or black/tan.
When I look for a spot, I try to find a spot with 2 mines. I've smithed early in some other families and got them up to the tools for a cart with just one mine before, but it feels grindy moving a mining pick around without a cart. And also, one mine towns are likely to end up depending on other families for iron or consuming more oil than average. 2 mines and 3 clay pits close-ish pretty much comes as my rule set for finding a spot, and likely branches are o. k. also. So, having new Eves spawn say 80 or 120 tiles left of the tapout radius could be advantageous for finding a nice spot.
On the other hand, if one spawns as things stand, and one can find milkweed near one's starting area, then if one makes a fire bow drill, rabbit snare, and hatchet before finding a spot, and finds a spot left, then there's some advantage over spawning in an already suitable spot.
That said, I think new Eves won't run around and look. Or think something like "make basket, the three primary tools, and only after find a spot." If new Eves spawned 80 or 120 tiles left, they would more often have a 2nd mine. So, yea, I think Eve spawning just a bit further west would be better.
Years later even, this was a fun read!
Do you recall Tarr if you were using Jason's client or Awbz mod?
So has anyone else taken up the challenge implied by the picture above and the word "colonize" (note... colonize connotes part of a more technological advanced group settling with less technologically advanced group... The British colonized what once were Native American areas or Cortez colonizes the Aztecs... something like the Goths "walking" into Rome or Mexicans swimming into Texas doesn't sound like colonization to me, or doesn't fit the word as well)?
Have you as a white lady or as a man with a white lady, gone to a low-tech or Eve camp family and tried to colonize what was once just their land?
If so, how did it go?
Deomnicblack a while back commented on how it's inconsistent that the seal on a newcomen breaks, while the seal on a newcomen engine does not break (https://onetech.info/2243-Multipurpose-Newcomen-Engine).
Jason agreed that there exists an inconsistency on that: https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/1165
But, instead of caring about the inconsistency, it got dismissed with "game balance" as preferable.
SoloAceMouse: "While I enjoy difficulty when it is rewarding, I feel like this difficulty increase [making it so that the newcomen engine would bust] would not be rewarding but instead unnecessarily harder."
So basically needing to get another bucket of latex, two, or more, cook them, and then put them in the engine would not be rewarding. It sure sounds to me like Ace has implied that "more trade" would not be good.
Tarr: "We want new players to learn advanced stuff and making mistakes is okay and part of learning naturally. Making things more costly leads to gatekeeping and now allowing new people the chance to learn."
So, basically, "advanced stuff" *consists of crafting* complex objects. Advanced stuff isn't playing as Ginger early arc especially, and going to both tans and blacks and trying to get latex, palm oil, and also sulfur for the latex in buckets. Advanced players would also "gatekeep" using the engine, instead of thinking "oh... we don't have enough rubber!" and maybe get out of town to get those supplies also. People also having a *clearer consequence* for performing poorly also doesn't allow them to learn. Honestly, that's absurd. When in doubt, people need more feedback on how they're doing, including more negative feedback, not less feedback. At least for anything objective.
Tarr: "You know how to play the game and while this would negatively affect you, it would much more negatively mess with new people."
Alright, so Tarr here implies that more rubber supply trade/charity would negatively affect me and also that would negatively mess with new people also. No, I don't know such a thing. In fact, if anything, I'd prefer if towns just didn't make it a diesel water pump or loom. Families would then end up more often in an early game loop, and maybe there existed somewhat less resettling of old towns or throwing advanced objects at new towns.
But anyways, it looks like Jason doesn't have that much confidence in trade (or "trade" or charity) as so good of a thing as to make it more necessary. When the rubber meets the road, it's more important that someone makes an engine or truck than goes out and tries to interact with someone in another family to get rubber supplies, I guess.
To make an analogy with the real world and use a modern example, this change was like making it easier for Mexicans to migrate to Texas.
Demonicblack, who has over 3000 hours and I've had many enjoyable lives with, sent me the following picture saying
"i made this screenshot to annoy you":
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ … rbox=false
He also said:
"so i did a small eve experiment, instead of focusing on kiln and whatever i focused on looting
it went kinda nice lol"
Alright, it's better than resettling a dead town. And o. k., he has over 3000 hours, so he's not some clueless new player, and he feels it kind of nice.
But still...
WHAT
THE
****
IS
THIS
****
????
A belltower cannot get rung from a tutorial area.