a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Actually that makes sense: after all ancient Greeks had invented some steam engines but never really used it for anything. Similarly, internal combustion engines seem to be a solution to a problem we don't have yet. I suspect this helped Jason put in place the logic to other complex techs.
Indeed, we currently don't need buildings. Which is a shame. I can see so many ways to make buildings necessary: for instance to avoid food rotting, to be able to store big amount of things. I could see a mechanics for setting a home inside a building and get bonuses from the things there.
For instance, we can't have a sleep mechanics in this game, but having a building as your home with a bed could give you a bonus in terms of food consumption if you are not too far. I could see the ability to have a wardrobe inside your home and insta-change to the appropriate clothes when changing biome (here again, maybe range limited).
I still feel it is wrong for civilizations that are still figuring out if they really need buildings, who have not invented furniture or metal casting, who have no irrigation, to have internal combustion engines.
Several options:
- Like Uncle Gus said, fathers are attributed automatically. Yes, expect toooons of incest.
- Make dating a choice. Have ways to express links between individuals. This brings an increased likelihood of having babies, and also gives a use to males.
- Anyway, the low population and nature of the game makes it unavoidable that immaculate conceptions still happen. It is as unrealistic as Eves spawning but there are no good ways around when no one is currently dating.
So, another thread mentions a hack to link two family trees: an old man asked his son to stab him at 59 so that on his tree, he would be mentioned.
I agree that another way would be nice...
More than adoption, there should be ways to create link between people. Maybe a specific present or ritual.
I always thought that the colors were going away when the whole family line became extinct.
Child abandonment: the strategy game.
At one point we will need something else as food as a motivation:
- In many games warfare tech is the main incentive to climb the tech tree.
- Exploration. If the biomes were organized differently with places harder to reach and some resources in some remote biomes (e.g. to get iron you have to cross a long wasteland that basically requires full-clothing and a backpack of food.) there would be more interest in things like horse carriage and roads.
- Medicine. There is a whole range of objects that even basic medicine would require: bandage, clutches, various pots of potions, blankets, etc...
- Shelter. In real life, a lot of resources are spent on making sure it doesn't rain on your head and that your stuff stays dry. OHOL does not have a very strong need for buildings yet, that's a shame. There could be a mechanics for rain, making it almost impossible for instance to keep wheat or flour on the ground unless it is inside a building.
- Culture. It is purposefully hard to make written documents in OHOL and to make any kind of cultural contribution. Yet I think that despite this being "unnecessary" experience has shown that players will go to lengths to still make this happen. I have seen mausoleums, milkweed closed garden, the city of Ovenpost had its name written in ovens at the entrance... Make a very hard to build object that's useless, like rosone that just projects a nice colored shadow on the tile below, and I am sure many civs will try to get some.
- Trade. There is none yet. The need is missing as no one has a monopoly on some resources or biomes. Also the nature of the game makes negotiation and transactions hard (and costly) to achieve. I don't think it is in Jason's idea to create a market-transaction system like in most MMORPG games, yet without something like this, it will be hard to have any form of market. How about having a kind of shop with automated transactions but that would only be active on a set of conditions like "the goods are to be in locked chests, the shopkeeper has to have the keys to the chest in the bag and a weapon handy"? It would be really nice if the elements of a shop could be loaded into a cart (maybe a fancier cart?) and moved to another city.
i found out just asking them what they know how to do is a good way to know who to keep.
Surprisingly, the best family I ever had was almost totally made of beginners. I spent my time in the middle of the village, teaching them, giving them instructions. They loved me! we were so productive after a generation!
I recently was a kinda successful Eve (http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/server.php?action=character_page&id=285206 line lasted for 9 gens)
I think as an Eve, the key is to manage child abandonment well. I don't waste time on boys, and I know I have no time to waste so a kid is an investment that I am willing to do only if it is going to pay off. I took care of two daughters (and a granddaughter) telling them where we were, what they needed, explaining them how to do some stuff if they did not know.
I asked my kids to farm, they sucked at it. They did not abandon enough babies I fell. I told them to do baskets for a while and move soil around, but we did not really have a great farm going by the time I died.
I know that one of the greatest enabler in that game is the backpack, so I trapped a lot of rabbits, which fed us a bit. I wish we had had a decent potter because bowls, plates and oven would have allowed us to do much more profitable pies.
With a backpack, a basket and several snares, getting rabbits is exponentially better. Make more backpacks, some clothes.
And give orders and instructions to the kids.
There are several ways now to reach a sustainable state so roll with whatever the kids come up with. I was surprised to see my family survived for 9 generations despite no working farm after one hour.
I still think that some stuff is missing for trade. We don't have time to negotiate, we can't prevent people from stealing from a cart.
Yeah, wars could be fun too but I doubt the "one hour and you will not be reborn in the same place" mechanics really allows for bloodlines and countries to emerge.
Forget about what I said about growing the tech tree in the other thread. Sorry about that. That update is awesome.
For what purpose? Just for the sake of making something out of glass?
In these kind of games, I think it is natural to expect the players to want to climb the tech tree. If you are looking about purpose, keep in mind that you designed the game in a way that surviving has less meaning than in other games, so arguably, yes, hunting for novelty is probably an acceptable goal. Once you have crafted all the objects there are in the game, I doubt people continue to play it for super long after that.
But my idea for glassware was to enable chemistry, some additional cooking and possibly windows (it would make sense that a building without openings would be totally dark). If I understand correctly, you consider everything in the game needs a purpose toward survivability of the characters. Which currently means agriculture application as we have no warfare or disease. Chemistry can be used for fertilizer, extracting things like rennets from animals, distilling alcohol (which historically allows safer drinks than untreated water). Glasshouses have a direct use.
If we are going into the lens-polishing thing, there is plenty more ideas.
I have to make it so that you NEED glass and chemistry. So that those things are optimal.
The only things we need now are food and clothing. And I guarantee that if climbing the tech tree meant these two things would be produced more easily, we would be pumping out chemistry and glass items.
I can't do that on a foundation of infinite carrots or even finite monocrops. I imagine that glass will be used for food storage (canning), but you'll have to have some food that needs storage.
Well between the various meats, the carrots, onions, wheat, berries, there is room for a ton of recipes and stored food. Especially since food starts rotting.
I'm not building the tech tree with some high-level goal in mind, top-down. I'm instead looking at what tech we currently have and thinking: Where can I go from here? What's the next step? And most importantly, what would people who had this current tech be desperately trying to make next? Probably not glass or gunpowder.... they'd probably be trying to farm some more crops and domesticate some more animals.
Personally I would want to make irrigation: pipes and pumps, windpower, and try more convenient (and varied) ways to make clothes.
I wish trade would appear but I doubt it can happen with the one hour interval, random positioning and limited communication.
Also, things like jewelry or maybe even masonry and glass (for windows) are kind of in the "entertainment" category, which people would only pursue once they had the basics of survival ironed out. That's why the fabric dyes were putting the cart before the horse. More food tech is needed before people care about the color of their clothing.
I really think that's a game design choice here: you can make food harder and more complicated to get in order to make the few "luxury" items more scarce, there is no limit to how complicated food production can be and the system has already change many, many times. Or you can accept that a city may have a sustainable food supply and be able to divert some resources to a bit of industry, and you'll see plenty of dyed clothes and jewelery.
I have stopped playing a bit after the apocalypse. At the time I thought I was starting to get bored about the game and that re-starting from digging carrots was not my idea of fun. I thought I'd make a break and come back later to play with a bit more advanced tech.
Two months later: "Ok, last time I was there the forge was the most advanced workshop, what do we have there?" "Corn!" OK, I'll pass.
I understand one can't do everything at the same time, but here the tech tree seems to extend horizontally but not vertically at all. Where is the glassmaking? chemistry? weaving? masonry? jewelery?
I don't think it is a huge problem, since it basically requires you to stand there and do nothing. If you take the time to find the ideal location, and then just sit there doing nothing, it shouldn't be an issue that you don't get hungry as quickly. It does semi negate fires, but fires are also used for a lot of other stuff besides warmth, so it isn't a big deal.
Oh, I'll divulge that trick then :-) If you find the semi-desert tile where you are at perfect temperature and start running without stopping, you'll stay at this temperature. This negates the need for clothing explorers. If you happen to stop somewhere, just redo it at the next desert biome, it cant be that far.
My system with wells it to pair them to cisterns using fences
##-#
#0o0
##-#
Keeping an empty water container between the two that is only used to:
A. Check if the Well can no longer receive water (That means it is full)
B. Fill a Cistern to max from the well.
The Cistern should be the only thing used to water with in this system, and if used properly you can tell at a quick skim if the well is still refilling.
If the container has water, then the well needs to be checked, if it is empty then the cistern should be ready to be used.If you are the one to empty the cistern you just need to put it back, open the fence, and use the container to check if the well is full. If it hasn't refilled enough just take that water back out and leave the filled container to check again later. Don't forget to close the fence behind you and the effort it would require to take from the well should be enough to discourage anyone clueless about this system.
I like it!
Just wanted to share something that happened in an earlier game. I ended up tending a carrot field. I was clothed, playing a male with curly blond hair. At another point another guy comes around and remarks all the other players are gone/dead. "Are you the only girl here?", yeah that male face sprite is confusing so instead of answering, I removed the loin cloth, flashed my dick. "LOL ok, let's find another camp then".
It is the first time I see a video game where undressing could actually serve a meaningful purpose. Kudos!
I think wool clothing will become the new norm. No need for milkweed really makes a whole industry possible there.
Let me explain. The design idea Jason has is that making a village should be harder and not a stable state, that exile and rebuilding/extending the existing should be unavoidable. Still, many people felt it sad that already built village would just disappear.
First there was the apocalypse, and this was terribly bad. Then there was the scattering of Eves, which had a similar effect without being actually that bad. Now the scattering is reportedly removed, we can finally make a city/resume a city that was abandoned again! Jason simply made it much harder by making a lot of objects unusable in abandoned cities. Decay is a new mechanics, it is broken in many ways but it will be repaired. It is, IMO, the good long-term solution.
I just ate two mutton pies and not only did it only have only one bite, but I also ate the plate.
Why do I picture you as the cookie monster now?
Before the Apocalypse I wanted to make a lot of wool hats and dye them blue, call ourselves smurfs and make war to the filthy red people.
It is limited, but through dyed pieces of clothing, you can already do some stuff.
The problem with the FOV is that it seems to be the main bottleneck for the server to give map update to people who run.
I'd love to see some kind of watchtower personally.
Be as fully clothed as possible.
The ONE thing you need to quickly resume a farming community are water containers. Then a few seeds and plenty of food. If you have enough food to last until the carrot patches mature, you will go much faster.
Having a needle allows you to bypass the whole rabbit cooking arc. I'd also have the fire bow, an axe (which makes the hatchet obsolete). Then a snare.
Yeah. Make backpacks and move. Make carts and move. Use the soil, the water, and move.
Be always migration-ready.
However this kind of organization is impossible with our limited chat mechanics. I think the voice server is going to be the new norm. And I fear that this will make it hard for a civ to survive the US night.
Rather than doing pies, I wonder if we should not focus on cooked mutton. Cooked mutton is 16 food, each sheep gives 4, so 64 foods total, it is basically a carrot rabbit pie.
It takes a full berry bush, so 18 + one carrot (6) = 24. It uses no soil and no water. You'll get wool as a bonus, it uses no soil.
Sheeps are your food multiplier now.