Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

Cryptodream · 2018-03-16 16:02:04

Rain: irrigate farms and refill empty ponds and wells.

Idea taken from jakeinmn.

At the same time, Deep well with empty bucket = less than 3 uses, bucket with water, have more than 3 uses.

Shallow well, lose 1 stone if have less than 3 uses, its full of rocks it has more than 3 uses.

If its an emergency, you can mess up and empty the well, wait until rains to recover the well.

Last edited by Cryptodream (2018-03-16 16:05:28)

danger1penguin · 2018-03-16 16:38:30

I have done some thinking about this from a trolling perspective. If I wanted to ruin a community who partially relied on wells, I could just continuously empty the well until it is dry. This wouldn't take much effort because at a maximum of 14 you only need a cart of water sacks + 2 waterable things. I could singlehandedly dry up as many wells as I want if I had many waterable things. Dried wells are COMPLETELY pointless.

Jason you need to do one of two things to fix this (trolling, while it is part of society, needs a function of control or it can kill any game's intentions).

1. Allow a well to be watered when dry (just like a pond), and this makes sense because why would you not be able to add water to a well?!?
2. Allow wells to be destroyed. This provides something for griefers and those who become griefed. If there is a dry well that can be interacted with, it is no longer a PERMANENT waste of a tile. The destruction can give little to nothing back (e.g. the stone and stanchion kit is used to fill the well and is reverted back to plain ground). Not sure if adobe walls can be destroyed, but the same rule should be followed by them. Otherwise, eventually, the world will be filled with unmoveable adobe walls and wells, yikes!

Until this is done, I will do everything in my willpower to prevent people from building wells, cisterns are fine, but wells are broken. It is fine to make the solution difficult and solved by culture, but if culture fails, there needs to be something to do about it rather than a permanent untouchable waste of space.

SantaFray · 2018-03-16 16:57:58

Potjeh wrote:

Which we won't, because wells are strictly inferior to ponds so making them is a waste of time, resources and space. They need to regenerate faster than ponds to be worth considering. But even if they did regenerate faster tending the well would be very inefficient use of time, by the time you move all that measuring shit you could've brought back more water from ponds with a pouch filled cart.

I feel that you're forgetting something very important here, ponds are natural resources while wells are a player created water source. Yes, ponds are superior in reliability and safety. However, a civilization can only grow so big relying on natural resources. Often a village will consume all of the water reserves and out grow the the water respawn rate. Player made water sources are essential to supporting a growing populations soil and carrot production rate. Wells are not intended to replace ponds but rather to complement them in water generation. Creating wells might not be important for establishing a civilization, but it will likely be a very important tech in civilization progression.

Jadajen · 2018-03-16 17:03:46

SantaFray wrote:

Potjeh wrote:
Which we won't, because wells are strictly inferior to ponds so making them is a waste of time, resources and space. They need to regenerate faster than ponds to be worth considering. But even if they did regenerate faster tending the well would be very inefficient use of time, by the time you move all that measuring shit you could've brought back more water from ponds with a pouch filled cart.
I feel that you're forgetting something very important here, ponds are natural resources while wells are a player created water source. Yes, ponds are superior in reliability and safety. However, a civilization can only grow so big relying on natural resources. Often a village will consume all of the water reserves and out grow the the water respawn rate. Player made water sources are essential to supporting a growing populations soil and carrot production rate. Wells are not intended to replace ponds but rather to complement them in water generation. Creating wells might not be important for establishing a civilization, but it will likely be a very important tech in civilization progression.

I still think cisterns are the better bet if you can. Then make enough water bags for a cart and collect the water from further locations --> storing this in the cistern(s)

This is an adults job to cart the water bags, but it really takes a load off the main ponds, giving them a chance to respond. Also cisterns located near the farm allow kids and farmers to water more efficiently, thus creating a better farm.

zentea · 2018-03-16 18:02:53

Another problem with wells is that even if we make them work properly there will be no difference shallow or deep.
Sure at start one will have 14 other one 7 uses but in long run they will be 1-2 uses away from drying out. Solution to that would be dropping deep well from 14 to 10 but increasing its water regeneration so its faster then ponds/shallow.

tcecrog · 2018-03-16 18:48:58

I think that a buoy should be added to the game to be added to a well to make a well meter.

Potjeh · 2018-03-16 19:08:08

I don't like how the solution to dry well is building another well. It's not really keeping with the theme of chasing next tech level to stay afloat. And collecting piles of round rocks from ever further away isn't much fun. I think that repairing dry wells with iron bars would provide much needed incentive for continuous smithing, and the iron shortage it'd create would open room for next tech level - mine shafts.

Xuhybrid · 2018-03-16 19:14:09

Simple solution - Allow us to refill an empty well so it can start replenishing. Just like ponds... If it becomes dead and unusable, unable to be interacted with. What the hell is the point in it?

Last edited by Xuhybrid (2018-03-16 19:14:33)

Potjeh · 2018-03-16 19:15:24

Apparently that's too easy.

Joriom · 2018-03-16 22:39:48

UPDATE: Dry wells regain water after 10 hours. So just build enough of them so you're never screwed totaly if you screw up the measurement on few of them.

Joriom · 2018-03-17 01:41:21

Joriom wrote:

Well, I just thought about a roundabout ways to make wells usefull without any "water ammount indicator" on them. Need to test it out though.
It goes something like this:
SOLUTION I
Preparation:
Put a well and two cisterns next to each other.
Usage:
Before taking water from well, always fill it up to brim from cisterns so you know exactly how much water is left in well.
Collect up to half (or 2/3) od well water suply and put it in cisterns.
Deep wells are better because you can collect more and leave them for longer to refill.
Water farms only from cisterns.
SOLUTION II
Preparation:
Build well (or few of them) next to a pond.
Usage:
Collect water from well always at the same time when you pick it up from pond.
Pond collects water at the same rate so it will be the well indicator.
Deep wells get water at the same rate but are less prone to getting dry due to higher water ammount.
SOLUTION III (mix of I and II)
Put wells next to ponds.
Before collecting water, refill wells from ponds up to full.
Cons:
Easy to troll well dry killing entire settlement.
Any interference from outside can be deadly.
Assumptions:
You can't overfill the well like a pond.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 2736#p2736

Kinrany · 2018-03-27 22:28:45

jasonrohrer wrote:

I don't want to make it foolproof, or easy to recover from a mistake with one weird trick. I want everything to be dangerous. I want heavy communication and coordination to be necessary every step of the way.

Civilizations with heavy coordination is an awesome goal, but when communicating even small amounts of information costs too much, any strategy heavy on coordination is automatically worse than the alternative dumb strategy of throwing man-hours at the problem until it goes away.

draequine · 2018-03-28 00:12:49

My system with wells it to pair them to cisterns using fences
##-#
#0o0
##-#
Keeping an empty water container between the two that is only used to:
A. Check if the Well can no longer receive water (That means it is full)
B. Fill a Cistern to max from the well.
The Cistern should be the only thing used to water with in this system, and if used properly you can tell at a quick skim if the well is still refilling.
If the container has water, then the well needs to be checked, if it is empty then the cistern should be ready to be used.

If you are the one to empty the cistern you just need to put it back, open the fence, and use the container to check if the well is full. If it hasn't refilled enough just take that water back out and leave the filled container to check again later. Don't forget to close the fence behind you and the effort it would require to take from the well should be enough to discourage anyone clueless about this system.

Xuhybrid · 2018-04-27 02:58:49

jasonrohrer wrote:

Maybe there are other ways to track this or mark the well as "risky" to take from. Maybe building a cistern next to the well is the way to go. Maybe building a well next to a pond. However you do it, you need to teach it to your children so they can continue.

Why though? Sure, if a well runs dry, you removed one water too many. Oops, let me put the water back in. The well running dry for 10 hours is non-sensical. If you must have it run dry and become unusable because "magic" then allow us to fix our mistake. Just like ponds, if someone dries all the wells, i better go and find water (if there is any) and fix it. If we can put water back in, you can leave a dry well dry forever if you want. Alternatively, don't allow us to refill a well, but keep it functioning as normal when it does run dry. After all, if a well can regenerate water by magic, but then also stops doing that by magic, you can do anything magical you want.

The solution shouldn't be "how do i tell people how many uses are left" and instead something different.

Last edited by Xuhybrid (2018-04-27 03:00:34)

pein · 2018-04-27 06:13:09

you can fill it to max then take one out to regenerate

the truth is, there will be always nabs who deplete it, then for ten hours blocks your pathing, well walls suck

place it further, have one person tend to it
or dont build at all

if you dont have enough water, you got too many mouths to feed, if you farming properly, one point you should reach a state where you got enough carrots for lifetime
this point cisterns can store the regenerated water

Alleria · 2018-04-27 07:05:51

Best solution is to Build a small, locked building around your wells, then the walls are cisterns. That way people can use the well water, but one player ensures the wells don't go dry.

yvanhooe · 2018-04-27 08:12:37

draequine wrote:

My system with wells it to pair them to cisterns using fences
##-#
#0o0
##-#
Keeping an empty water container between the two that is only used to:
A. Check if the Well can no longer receive water (That means it is full)
B. Fill a Cistern to max from the well.
The Cistern should be the only thing used to water with in this system, and if used properly you can tell at a quick skim if the well is still refilling.
If the container has water, then the well needs to be checked, if it is empty then the cistern should be ready to be used.
If you are the one to empty the cistern you just need to put it back, open the fence, and use the container to check if the well is full. If it hasn't refilled enough just take that water back out and leave the filled container to check again later. Don't forget to close the fence behind you and the effort it would require to take from the well should be enough to discourage anyone clueless about this system.

I like it!

YAHG · 2018-04-27 11:35:35

Best is to just spam super hard, and try not to make em block to much. 14 water every ten hours
is >1 water a life. Not amazing but better than nothing, and it is forever assuming your city survives
etc. Obviously try to spread your uses so you are less likely to empty it.

Been in cities with well spam, it is nice to live there. Some wells go dry, some wells respawn no biggie.
If you have 35 wells in various states of respawn it is sorta like there are some extra ponds around is all.

Might be interesting to have a well room with stone walls and two armed guards for the well master who
watches over 40 wells. You bring your carts to him with a lil food and he fills your bags.. If he likes the look of ya

Xuhybrid · 2018-04-27 17:42:36

If you want to stretch the uses of the well out over 7 hours for example, you could make the well regenerate every 30 minutes, even if it goes dry. I think this is probably the most reasonable solution if you want balance. Perhaps 30 is too strict, that's not for me to decide.

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#26 2018-03-16 16:02:04

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#27 2018-03-16 16:38:30

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#28 2018-03-16 16:57:58

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#29 2018-03-16 17:03:46

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#30 2018-03-16 18:02:53

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#31 2018-03-16 18:48:58

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#32 2018-03-16 19:08:08

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#33 2018-03-16 19:14:09

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#34 2018-03-16 19:15:24

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#35 2018-03-16 22:39:48

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#36 2018-03-17 01:41:21

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#37 2018-03-27 22:28:45

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#38 2018-03-28 00:12:49

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#39 2018-04-27 02:58:49

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#40 2018-04-27 06:13:09

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#41 2018-04-27 07:05:51

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#42 2018-04-27 08:12:37

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#43 2018-04-27 11:35:35

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

#44 2018-04-27 17:42:36

Re: Shallow Wells and Deep Wells The Truth. EDIT

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