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#1 2019-09-30 10:31:57

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

I wasn't fond of fences used as pens as they look ugly, they also decay, so if the tow goes inactive, it will let the sheep out

The new fence boxes are solving this issue, you can place sledges on top of fences and act as a container, you can let them decay, the boxes still hold up, and keep the sheep inside, also make it easier to store meat and fleece
you still got to take out the bones so at least 2 entrances

NWiVLSE.png
1xeRkwM.png

it's still a bit ugly, especially on corners so i would advise to make the corner exits with pillars
you can make half walls with adobe, rest fences, then upgrade and plaster them later
Azog2bW.jpg

1xeRkwM.png

you can also place loom oil distiller, bell tower, cistern, sign or oven there
So6xXgq.jpg

some of them are vulnerable to griefing but such as fences if timed right

the other option is a treeline strategically planted as a pen, then fences under it (it covers on top and some trees on sides)
it takes an hour to grow and an hour to decay for fences, and you make the bottom as boxes
yiXooSg.png

i would suggest poplar on sides, maybe maple on top
they can be cut down but now is much harder to do so since they are hungry work except pine
the griefer proof method would be mango trees, as they can't be cut if you collect the mango and just dump soil without watering them
only issue with mango is that you can kill cows with it which can be bad if you only got one of it
as you see the reverse V shape with one bush on middle of the pen works as entrance/exit
also, it's extendable, while corners aren't
and you only need one entrance for oven/taking in some sheep food, taking out the fleece
and one exit for the bones to dump

PSPzwg1.png

if they decay (actually it looks better if they do) you can just convert them to chests, they can be still taken with a shaft but it's a bit safer
the ultimate solution would be to lock it up with the same key, they can be accidentally closed so you need to open them but you can use locked boxes in open state

the one downside is the requirement for boards and shafts, but planting trees (pine for firewood and maple for shafts) should be more common anyway

Other than that? Just be creative

Last edited by pein (2019-09-30 16:55:06)


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#2 2019-10-05 12:48:29

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

Make the fences and plant the trees

po8wRqo.png

once the fences are set, drag the sledges on it
qphajFm.png

Soon it grows out and you can get sheep inside, and let the fences decay
dLt8AQY.png

UPDi7Ms.png


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#3 2019-10-05 23:59:54

Joseph Stalin
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From: Москва
Registered: 2018-04-16
Posts: 207

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

why would you not just make boxes there instead of whole fence box thing

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#4 2019-10-06 00:20:50

Spoonwood
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Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,985

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

This reminds me of the days when I made tree and box pens, and then had the idea taken up by two people who made their own towns (after joining me in mine for a while).

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#5 2019-10-06 01:58:57

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

it costs 6 ropes for the 6 boxes
plus ideally you got a horse cart and a normal cart for the city

making a tiny fence pen can get you sheep fast then you make a lot more value having a horse

this is a more advanced pen, you need shears, water source, soil to make it, and you got to finish watering the new trees before you hit 30, ideally in 10 min after birth, then 30 min later you can make sure it grows be that 40 or 58 year old

fences are already present, then you can plant around it or inside it
but generally gonna be a 2 man project or 2 life project

The front fences are there, so they don't cover, and upgradeable one by one, while it function properly, if you do straight up boxes, you need to enclose the pen to be useable.
They also need 20 min to stabilize and allow sledges to be put on them. Its safer, it cannot be removed. In meanwhile, you can gather butt logs, plant milkweed, make a floor and put oven on it. You can do it one by one instead of rushing it.
also, the shape will help other to realize what it is, and a highly optimized oven to cook mutton pies or straight up meat.

Spoon: public servers are different, you can do whatever meme setup on other servers alone, main server needs to be griefer proof. A lot of things can come up, famine, attackers, thieves.

The rift gives the opportunity to go back to previous places and finish such projects, but 1 hour after your initial watering, its fully done, if you leave sheep food inside it, people will know what is the deal with it.

You can also control the size choosing a big flat spot without any blocking tiles, then continue 2 directions until you got less than 5-10 min to turn 30 old. Then finish the 3 sides, and water it again in 30 min. This ensures it will grow without asking anyone. You can put 1-2 boxes and the oven or do whatever later. Ask a kid to take sheep inside once they grew out (10-30 min after your death)


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#6 2019-10-07 14:50:18

Spoonwood
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Registered: 2019-02-06
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Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

pein wrote:

Spoon: public servers are different, you can do whatever meme setup on other servers alone, main server needs to be griefer proof. A lot of things can come up, famine, attackers, thieves.

I always played on a public server.  I think you mean bigserver2.  Also, I did have griefing problems in a few of my towns.  But, I never had a problem with famine.

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#7 2020-01-02 19:56:18

Spoonwood
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Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,985

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

I had someone who started up on the low population server that I usually (though not always) play on who had some questions about pens.  I referred her to this guide.  She setup the vast majority of the first type of tree and box pen, and someone else made an oven with a berry bush on top of it.  I can now confirm that the first tree and box pen works fine.

My tree and box pens usually have had corner entrances with a box functioning as a corner, and not necessarily an oven near the pen, sometimes kilns lie near them.  I've usually layed out ropes and then transported boards there, but that probably wouldn't work in the large population context since ropes would be likely to disappear.  I'm not sure that butt logs or boards would work either in the large population context.

I think the center entrance design has an advantage over the corner entrance design in that if the pen is initially a property fence pen with a center entrance (that it needs a top entrance isn't something I'm convinced of) can probably easily get redesigned.  Like, let's imagine that the pen had property fences instead of poplars in this picture: https://i.imgur.com/UPDi7Ms.png and the loom isn't there and the top row of crops aren't either (or they get moved).  Then we could grow all around the property fences and more to connect to the lower boxes.  Then the pen could naturally expand a bit in size and become more useful potentially in saving time running for branches.

That all said, a tree pen like that takes over two buckets of water to make, so that's something to consider also.

P. S. For anyone talking about the date of this post, please note that Pein is still around, and has this referenced in his signature.  I'm also commenting here to confirm that I've seen that a particular design does appear to keep animals inside of the penned area.

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#8 2020-01-03 01:59:11

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

yes, center entrance is better to expand later on but maybe you need to make it smaller initially, so you can get a square later on (better ratio on free tiles for resources)

not much changed, grape as corners probably much better, since people eat the berries on corners and quite hard to get soil there each  corner, no one does it so it dies out anyway
while grapes cannot be removed and allow walk trough it

the newest one is way stones since you can walk trough them now

since the prop fences take 2 hours to decay, I really not like surrounding them
within 5 minutes (I became an elder at 55 and 60 I died) I had to get help and we removed like 6 fences only
best is to start a proper fence inside the old pen, capture the mouflon or one sheep, put a box in both sides where you cross the old fence, then  continue on the other side of it, like a Venn diagram.
Then the people potentially aren't dumb to repair the old one (once I offset it with one tile and they put a gate and still repaired 3 fences so that might be te case always)

best to just build a tiny fence pen further and then make the proper new one closer

putting sledges on prop fences is still the best way to remove them, people don't generally fix them

the cost of tree pen is quite high now with the water nerfs but you can easily get water from further away
the other risk is that people are lazy to go further and they cut the sides for firewood
happened on end of the rift, where the pen was there before the well was upgraded, and then people cut it and put a dumb stone building in it's place


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#9 2020-01-03 10:10:17

Spoonwood
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Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,985

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

pein wrote:

... not much changed, grape as corners probably much better ...

A pen that requires a newcomen multipurpose engine to make.  Though, yeah, crops getting used up on pen corner is a serious enough issue.

There's a town by the Tarr monument on the server I'm usually on.  They made a building with a door in the middle of the top wall, and an oven directly below it.  There's a sheep pen above that door, and I don't think the sheep are getting out, and the door can get walked through (might be a springy door, I don't recall).  There's a corner entrance to that pen also.

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#10 2020-01-15 05:29:13

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

unknown.png

the town had a fenced pen quite far from the berries and a pine building in a bad location since it overlapped with the new adobe building

so I cut it out, like 7 walls, and carried the rest of resources to the right

made 2 paper and 4 stone block

made this small pen
since I was smithing, making my pack and making like 8 plaster, had only a bit of time
it's a tiny bit small but it shows the tech well

basically the way stones can be walked trough now so it's kinda better than bushes
the diagonal design is square, can be extended (tho with pine is a bit of waste)
you can leave messages like
"don't shear last sheep"
"always feed lambs"
"always clean out the pen"

or something you want to share with people
either you need multiple papers or a rubber ball
since we had no rubber, I just used the same paper to make way stones which can be weird
but with hetuw it just overwrites the last way stone so won't trouble them if click all of them

you could also add iron mine, next wells or special biome coordinates but it takes time

it can be destroyed but won't decay
extending is simple, just add 2 more stones (all tech uses 2 stones except the apoc tower stones)
then just continue 2 sides, and close up again, move the walls or make new

I also forgot to floor under it, it would be possible, doors aren't needed really, and would lock people inside

Last edited by pein (2020-01-15 05:37:42)


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#11 2020-04-03 15:42:01

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

the fenced method receives a buff next update since you can put boxes on decaying fences, that means you should not repair it but use boxes on it

tables are cheaper since no rope required for them but still a lott of resources early

planting pine with maple trees can speed that up


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#12 2020-04-04 00:45:34

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

jynKrGJ.jpg

Just brainstorming on discord for a ringlike setup, since we can move sheep with a rope, we could make a setup where the naked sheep is moved behind the tables. this would be the initial tree planting, the top ones can be maple, side one's poplar or they cover too much. Tthese has to be planted before you are 30 so you can water them again

voEOnUR.jpg
final setup

the adobe would be used for the initial pen setup, you would need 21 boards, 32 shafts, 4 ropes and 1 blade blank for the whole thing

the tools would be: froe, adze, stakes, saw, shears, shovel, axe if you can afford, probably use a skewer to plant


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#13 2020-04-04 01:01:29

Elsayal
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Registered: 2018-11-04
Posts: 261

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

I don't understand what is the point of this.
Anyway, it's not a ring hmm


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#14 2020-04-04 01:21:46

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

You can move naked sheep closer to the ovens with a rope, then just kill it for the meat and put on the tables. While the other pen could produce some dung for compost which is not much, and save up space for new lambs. Didn't have the sprite for the naked ones. Since they won't poop or spawn lambs without feeding, you can keep them there for slaughter. With a door on the rails, even the Furry ones are fine once the sector is full.

It's a ring cause it has double walls and it's around the oven, you could just go all around but it's a bit more effective if you got open space under it
It could be symmetrical top and bottom but that would limit movement and production.

You can either make a tiny pen cause this is already work-intensive or use the one pen you got (plant the first tree 3 above a normal corner L shape from a bush). You save space and meat taking out the naked sheep with rope. This s not where you feed them.

bPYxr9R.jpg

Last edited by pein (2020-04-04 01:24:11)


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#15 2020-04-04 01:39:05

Elsayal
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Registered: 2018-11-04
Posts: 261

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

pein wrote:

You can move naked sheep closer to the ovens with a rope, then just kill it for the meat and put on the tables.

Why not. But since you got table everywhere, why bother use a rope if you put the meat on table ?


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#16 2020-04-04 02:20:42

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

It could be one side with tables but that's generally outer side of the pen. You move the naked ones in the area so a table is always near it, you don't have to put in baskets or move it one by one or use a cart, you can have a pie and a knife on table and swap around for the hungry work.
If you use a basket and a cart you need two free tiles I pen and two in the target location, load it, unload it. Or you can use a cart directly, generally, it's faster to use a horse cart multiple times without baskets than using a basket and loading/unloading them.

Feeding a shorn sheep means you lose the meat you would gain for feeding a lamb, also higher wait time to get a lamb. even if they are fed or grown-up, your timer is higher to get a lamb since they got move phases first, then the lamb phase then the move phase again. You use one tile for the mother, one tile for the lamb and one for the poop, the second lamb comes and the first dies. The full cycle is happening on 3 tiles. Honestly, it's even better if you don't have space for the poop al the time.

Honestly, I don't say it's way more effective, personally I think, the best time to shear them when you can collect the X+1 fleece you need. But it's something unique looking and good bufferzone for pie making.


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#17 2020-04-05 19:39:19

pein
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Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

cE4IUR2.png


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#18 2020-04-05 22:03:58

pein
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Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

KKdiBk3.png

seems like people don't really know the purpose of the outer ring, I moved some sheep in

made a cistern too so now is kinda stable, still 2 veins near

the black town near was stripped of most iron, engine, food, clothes
there is some water


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#19 2020-04-29 04:07:00

pein
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Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

BffhcxG.png
just illustration of the entrances, obviously too small in size, but you can build bigger with same setup on the middle.

3 options with gates that don't let animals out
You can't put gate or door on the corner, or it will block either going in or coming out (except springy door but then why even bother?) or connect diagonal rails, so corn entrances have their issues.

You can put a waystone in front of the door and 3 more tiles, that way it becomes a front entrance and won't let animals in or out (yes blocks bears).
Way stones prevent planting or building on that tile, allows walking trough, animals can't cross it if either side has a wall next to it. You can also write useful messages on it.

Since fences become diamond shape because of the auto-orientation, you can't use the shaft fences, but you can put cisterns there.

You can't make waystone on flooring, so if you have it inside a room, you need to make either sauerkraut, stew or a home marker. Those can be removed easily so not too safe options.

You can use cisterns and boxes, an oven to make this triangle inside rooms. You can also have a door across the rails which keeps the heat inside and can be made on floors, hard to remove. A cart can also store stuff. Can be 2 tiles along with a cart and springy door but looks quite weird, so 3 is better I  guess. Then you need other 3 for the pigpen, to use up the 6 tracks, so possibly a big room with bowls and ability to cook a lot of pork meat.


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#20 2020-05-05 02:33:34

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

with the latest changes, real fence gates block animals

obj_1851.png

this made corner entrances almost useless.

one problem with them that you need to make them first on the sidelines or the auto orienting will turn them on the side and can't be used as a gate
also if someone hits it with a mallet, then it turns back to a normal fence and if they remove the shaft it will turn them sideways In some cases

also they look kinda weird with the fences straight and them sideways
plus requires 3 shafts and adze so not the easiest to make

Lu6qUdp.jpg

you can make a triangle front entrance
010
1I1
you can use yew or maple branch stacks as temporary walls
any other item stack (like calamite or pigments, something that others won't take away) or a home marker, any type of stake in the ground, to block the animals until you can make your first gate, the space for the gate will be open this way

you can put in front of doors too, that can block bears going into buildings but don't forget to block the diagonals
also, this will turn walls diagonal, so better place something like cisterns, signs, belltower base, tables or just build near trees or rabbits
you can't put multiple gates near each other

you can use a shovel on rabbit holes, this will make them move away randomly, you can control the direction by placing items on the ground, they can't occupy tiles with items also they are blocked by walls so make sure you do this first before making the pen or they will always be inside

you can put a bow on a backpack, so it's easier to carry, also you can cut the bow after you shot the mouflon, leaving the yew branch behind and taking the rope

you can drop the mouflon lamb now and use the rope again, so you can eat if you bring it from afar, you can also feed it before to make sure it survives just don't let it step more than 10 before you use rope again

so the new order would be shoot mouflon with lamb, cut the bow,  remove and stash arrow, move the lamb, cut the mouflon hide and p on yourself, take the lamb and carry it home

you only need 1 cow maybe 2 so now you can make simple fences for them
D550WEK.png

probably the best looking would be 2 tables and a box then stone or fences around, corn on top(normal box since you need space to cut it) and empty buckets on the side
if you want two cows, you can get milk and skim milk same time
probably most optimal is to place a fence on top so you can go in from horseback
and tables on bottom

you might want to separate each animal

goose needs 1-2 stumps inside the pen, if it's o bottom corner it cancels the run animation for the goose so you can remove it from stump right away
it still has his head on the stump so you might need 2 stumps

pork and goose is cooked on hot coals so might be better not to place next to the kitchen, people still confuse pork and sheep meat

you might want a cornfield near it, you can even fence it up so people don eat it before it's dry


ideally, you would need a big place, possibly with pine floor, a lot of bowls and a few tables
some plates

hot coals can cook a goose, rabbit, carnitas, fish, shrimp, salt, sugar, limed corn, stew, broth, french fries
flat rock can cook an omelette, 2x tortilla so taco and burrito
so better not try to make all this in the kitchen

feeding goose corn can get you eggs, still worth it
generally, most good foods are made out of corn, the berry is quite inefficient now and needs a lot of space and it's time-intensive, composting soil needs 25% water investment, and all that soil needs even more water
you can move sheep on a rope to the ovens and kill it there so you don't have to cart the meat
also, you can cloth up people with sheepskin or shear the skins for fleece after killing the sheep

cooked goose is quite high on the food list now

you might reuse pen walls but separate the animals, you can breed goose in poop, so sheep and goose pen can share a wall to pass trough goose and pass back the eggs, you can use a fence box, later a slot box

you can fence up a small berry and carrot patch and corn patch too

Last edited by pein (2020-05-05 02:36:03)


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Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.

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#21 2020-05-07 13:50:39

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,255

Re: Mini guide: New pen meta 4.0 livestock pens

doors turn fences sideways as well


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