to pie or not to pie ? the soil situation after update

breezeknight · 2018-04-10 11:15:41

so every settlement i'm born into does the pies, as before, as nothing happened, as the worms wouldn't be there

wheat is being planted, as before

nobody cares to eat mainly carrots
only few want to farm, but many want to pie, lol

so, is it reasonable still to pie ?
or is it now better to eat the rabbits cooked & stay with the carrots as the main food ?

- - -

Thexus · 2018-04-10 11:38:19

Well, your civ will slowly but steadily die if you plant wheat/let carrots seed. But the update also introduced a different Eve placement, so now, wild wheat is abundant. You can make a pie factory, just from harvesting wild wheat.

Alleria · 2018-04-10 11:55:18

Bakers are essentially griefers now. Seriously though, unless you're using wild wheat, you're doing a disservice to your civ.

Last edited by Alleria (2018-04-10 11:55:31)

Potjeh · 2018-04-10 14:38:29

Your town will die faster than the soil runs out, so pie away. Pie just means it'll take a while longer to die than if you were just farming carrots. Same goes for not seeding carrots, only experienced players will reliably bring seeds and their time is much better spent working on village upgrades or even just teaching the newbies.

TerraSleet · 2018-04-10 16:00:26

I think the problem with the current "metagame" is that villages aren't willing to move because of how difficult it is to get a coordinated group going, let alone one that wants to travel one-way for a long distance, with no certain destination in sight. Many little issues compound this problem, such as: small field of view, sudden threats like snakes, lack of persistent / long-term communication, lack of long-range communication. This leads to villages inevitably dying out.

That said I'm not worried about this impacting the game much for the long-term. I imagine as new things get added and QoL changes get made this problem will eventually disappear. Plus the game gets stagnant pretty fast right now with the current amount of content - once a village is decked out with pies, carts and gold, what else is there to do but grief or roleplay? Having villages die out early and often is probably a good thing right now.

Lily · 2018-04-10 18:29:08

You can definitely make pies, since there is a far higher chance everyone will die, than you run out of soil. That said, pies really are not efficient food or soil wise. The only thing they are really good at is saving space. Though that can be important because no one has room for 100 carrots.

Ka · 2018-04-10 20:05:38

Pies are awesome for long travels, which have become much more of a necessity. If you make only a few rabbit-carrot pies, use them only for that reason, and conserve them as much as you can by eating wild berries or also bringing a carrot or two, they can still be an asset. Otherwise, I agree that they're a waste of resources, especially when people make them non-stop and use them without care.

Ka · 2018-04-10 20:51:17

Lily wrote:

pies really are not efficient food or soil wise. The only thing they are really good at is saving space.

-Edit: I realize the numbers are off, as I took them from the wiki, which is outdated. But the x4 factor makes that irrelevant.

It's actually quite the opposite. One carrot gives 5 food, one cooked rabbit is 8 food, so together they give 8+5=13 food.
One cooked rabbit carrot pie gives 16 food which is already more than the two combined, and does so for 4 times, so it's 16x4=64 food.
Pies ARE efficient food-wise. Even a simple carrot pie gives 5x4=20 food instead of 5, that's the whole concept behind their existence.

As for space:
One carrot occupies one space. You eat it, the space gets freed.
One rabbit occupies one space. You eat it, the space remains occupied by the bones. Wait a while, and they disappear, freeing the space.
One pie occupies one space. You eat it, you still have the pie. Do so for 4 times (which you do at a slower pace because of how much food they give, making you probably cumulate other food) and you still have one space occupied by the plate, which never disappears. Pies actually occupy space even when you can't eat them.
Of course, having two spaces occupied by a carrot and a rabbit is worse than having one space occupied by a pie, but that space will be forever occupied, instead of being free every now and then.
It's arguable wether or not pies are efficient space-wise. If you consider time and other variables like, for instance, population and food consumption rates, I'm afraid that there's no clear answer. Unless you consider traveling, of course, as I stated in my previous post. One pie in a backpack trumps everything, period.

I won't argue wether or not they're efficient soil-wise, as that depends on the amount of wild seeds and wheat that are easily available. What I'll say, though, is that soil is precious and I'd rather plant a berry bush or do an emergency carrot seeding than plant wheat. But that's just me.

Last edited by Ka (2018-04-10 20:57:26)

pein · 2018-04-10 22:01:04

carrot gives 6 food not 5
havent experimented with composting, basically you need to addworms, and worms are finite.
griefers dig out berry bushes then hard to make it, still, for efficiency i think it does worth to make some pies for long travels. people should make soem fences in distant biomes to be able to carry stuff with horses

IronBear · 2018-04-10 23:44:20

breezeknight wrote:

so every settlement i'm born into does the pies, as before, as nothing happened, as the worms wouldn't be there
wheat is being planted, as before
nobody cares to eat mainly carrots
only few want to farm, but many want to pie, lol

so, is it reasonable still to pie ?
or is it now better to eat the rabbits cooked & stay with the carrots as the main food ?

- - -

Pie was a decadent waste of time even before Apcolypse. A pie is wasted on the young, old, and a mostly full adult. The only reason to make it is if you have foragers that need to go a far away. Like for example your rabbit, carrot seed, wild wheat, and soil searchers.

Can't tell you how many dead villages I saw that had no food, but had unharvested wheat.

Now it is VERY stupid.

Potjeh · 2018-04-10 23:50:57

You can gather dozens of wild wheat around any decent camp location. Pie gives you the food security to focus on getting smithing and clothes going.

Lily · 2018-04-11 01:04:07

Ka wrote:

It's actually quite the opposite. One carrot gives 5 food, one cooked rabbit is 8 food, so together they give 8+5=13 food.
One cooked rabbit carrot pie gives 16 food which is already more than the two combined, and does so for 4 times, so it's 16x4=64 food.
Pies ARE efficient food-wise. Even a simple carrot pie gives 5x4=20 food instead of 5, that's the whole concept behind their existence.

It depends on how you look at it though. One unit of soil produces one unit of wheat, or 3 things of flours. One unit of soil gets you 7 carrot seeds, which produces 35 carrots. So while making a pie greatly expands the amount of food you get out of whatever you put into the pie, just growing 35 carrots still gives more food than growing one thing of wheat.

Though one pie takes up a lot less room than 35 carrots. Like I said though, it depends on how you look at it, since it isn't really an even comparison. Growing carrots does take more water, though pie requires cooking and stuff. Also if you add wild wheat and carrots, that changes things as well.

All that said though, there is a strong argument just to make all carrots, rather than growing wheat. Since even if you let carrots seed, you are still getting more food per soil used.

Potjeh · 2018-04-11 01:38:32

Growing and processing one wheat takes less water (and time if nearby water is low) than growing 35 carrots. Time is the most valuable resource, so wrecking local ponds with pure carrot farming isn't that great. And it takes many generations to build sufficient wells, plenty of time to starve from drought.

Lily · 2018-04-11 03:02:03

Potjeh wrote:

Growing and processing one wheat takes less water (and time if nearby water is low) than growing 35 carrots. Time is the most valuable resource, so wrecking local ponds with pure carrot farming isn't that great. And it takes many generations to build sufficient wells, plenty of time to starve from drought.

Well it all depends on where you place the farm. It only take a few ponds to water 7 rows of carrots. If you are right on the swamp where there is a ton of water and ton of reeds for baskets(to store all those carrots), it isn't to difficult to just make a ton of carrots.

I still think pies are important for storage though. Because while it is debatable if pies or carrots are better for food and soil concerns, 1 pie definitely takes up a lot less space than 35 carrots.

Joriom · 2018-04-11 03:09:54

You come to a point where you have cart horses. With hose you pack cart with 12 water pouches (or 16 if you use backpacks instead of baskets) and go for "water run" further away. You need 2 such runs every 15-20 minutes which is not so hard.
The same goes for carrot seeds. You just scout nearby prarie/savanna biomes for seeds on a horse with cart full of caskets/backpacks.
Doing so you can feed population of up to 20 people on pure carrots and it does not require that much of a work. Two or three people can still easily feed 20.
And you know what's the funny part? You use NO soil whatsoever this way. You can pump it all into berries/milkweed.

Pies are only good if you're going for VERY long runs. On a horse you're still better of with cooked rabbit/cactus fruit/cooked mutton or even carrots if you're using horse with a cart. Remember you can take some carrots in the cart itself and you're bound to hit some wild berry bushes while traveling on a horse.

Truthseeker · 2018-04-11 03:13:02

Pretty sure the meta should be that you pie it the hell up and then send family groups with carts of pies and tools in all directions every few generations.

Joriom · 2018-04-11 03:38:07

Truthseeker wrote:

Pretty sure the meta should be that you pie it the hell up and then send family groups with carts of pies and tools in all directions every few generations.

That would only work if servers didn't have such a low population limit. With max of 40 people you would fail the second or third iteration.
Considering you would want to send people in 4 directions - family of 4 for each direction. You need 16 people at start. They start 4 camps but lets assume 2 of them will fail. You're left with 2 camps sending 8 expeditions for 36 total people next time. 2 of those are bound to fail and lets say 3 more fail of random reasons. You're left with 3 camps and need to send 48 people... You've reached population cap. You can't sed so many expeditions anymore and 3rd iteration would not get enough kids anyway. Some of them would need to die off. Also - at this point you most likely don't know from which side your ancestors came. You might hit explited areas.

Idea is bad, but almost impossible to do without perfect coordination.

More viable tactics would be to have "seeding" town that sends its population in just two diections - half each drection. Possibly east/west as you're less likely going to die traveling in those directions. Your FOV is longer so you can avoid wolves/sakes.
After that each of those two "branches" techs up, builds vestigial roads in the direction they came from (direction of "seeding" town), "pies up" and goes further in the direction oposite to where road is - following further into unknown.

yvanhooe · 2018-04-11 05:19:35

Rather than doing pies, I wonder if we should not focus on cooked mutton. Cooked mutton is 16 food, each sheep gives 4, so 64 foods total, it is basically a carrot rabbit pie.

It takes a full berry bush, so 18 + one carrot (6) = 24. It uses no soil and no water. You'll get wool as a bonus, it uses no soil.

Sheeps are your food multiplier now.

TerraSleet · 2018-04-11 08:36:37

yvanhooe wrote:

Rather than doing pies, I wonder if we should not focus on cooked mutton. Cooked mutton is 16 food, each sheep gives 4, so 64 foods total, it is basically a carrot rabbit pie.
It takes a full berry bush, so 18 + one carrot (6) = 24. It uses no soil and no water. You'll get wool as a bonus, it uses no soil.
Sheeps are your food multiplier now.

Sounds good but the problem is sheep seem to be an opportunistic griefer's cue to go nuts. It's so easy to kill a sheep farm and it takes a while to get a sheep farm going. Every town I've been in so far that had sheep ended up with griefer problems. Just an anecdote though.

There's an error in your math too - domestic berry bushes need to be watered after harvesting and you'll probably have to plant domestic bushes too since people will inevitably eat / grief the wild berries. There is an initial soil cost and since berries take a while to regrow you'll need a farm rivalling the size of a carrot farm.

Also mutton is fairly bulky (though not as bulky as carrots, oddly). Pies are still much more space efficient.

Last edited by TerraSleet (2018-04-11 08:41:31)

Potjeh · 2018-04-11 09:49:17

If you have a cart and horse, wild wheat is infinite for all practical purposes.

pein · 2018-04-11 09:53:48

pie some, for the adults and explorers

such cooperation is impossible. some people are like a plant, you put them near the farm as a kid, stays there, never knows what is where, just complains why dont have enough carts, pouches baskets, never knows what and how to make.

had a lot of runs today, people just move pop out the kids, most of em die in one famine. but they just continue to pop kids. one solution would be not fighting it, let the main base stay as it is, kids would have to move away from carrot farm, just make some small farms near water supplies. leave it dry. the starter base would be an arena and people would drop kids there, let the strongest survive. just we should make sure all kids are dropped in the center

sheep can gear up huge population, there is no next step, thats why people become killers, they are too bored having everything from start.

zentea · 2018-04-11 11:05:37

I post a suggestion to fix the pie problem , vote up if you want to see it in game

https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … mechanics/

It brings pies back and it solves wheat griefers problem

Last edited by zentea (2018-04-11 11:12:48)

Truthseeker · 2018-04-11 16:20:16

I'm pretty sure Jason is trying to program migration into the meta, the reason everything will run out eventually is because society isn't advanced enough to sustain a stationary civ for more than a hundred generations or so.

yvanhooe · 2018-04-12 04:49:32

Yeah. Make backpacks and move. Make carts and move. Use the soil, the water, and move.

Be always migration-ready.

However this kind of organization is impossible with our limited chat mechanics. I think the voice server is going to be the new norm. And I fear that this will make it hard for a civ to survive the US night.

Potjeh · 2018-04-12 10:28:45

Lily wrote:

Potjeh wrote:
Growing and processing one wheat takes less water (and time if nearby water is low) than growing 35 carrots. Time is the most valuable resource, so wrecking local ponds with pure carrot farming isn't that great. And it takes many generations to build sufficient wells, plenty of time to starve from drought.
Well it all depends on where you place the farm. It only take a few ponds to water 7 rows of carrots. If you are right on the swamp where there is a ton of water and ton of reeds for baskets(to store all those carrots), it isn't to difficult to just make a ton of carrots.
I still think pies are important for storage though. Because while it is debatable if pies or carrots are better for food and soil concerns, 1 pie definitely takes up a lot less space than 35 carrots.

Constantly watering seven rows takes a fair bit of ponds. But the thing is, seven rows don't feed a whole lot of people. There's no location with enough water to grow enough carrots to feed a village.

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#1 2018-04-10 11:15:41

to pie or not to pie ? the soil situation after update

#2 2018-04-10 11:38:19

Re: to pie or not to pie ? the soil situation after update

#3 2018-04-10 11:55:18

Re: to pie or not to pie ? the soil situation after update

#4 2018-04-10 14:38:29

Re: to pie or not to pie ? the soil situation after update

#5 2018-04-10 16:00:26

Re: to pie or not to pie ? the soil situation after update

#6 2018-04-10 18:29:08

Re: to pie or not to pie ? the soil situation after update

#7 2018-04-10 20:05:38

Re: to pie or not to pie ? the soil situation after update

#8 2018-04-10 20:51:17

Re: to pie or not to pie ? the soil situation after update

#9 2018-04-10 22:01:04

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#10 2018-04-10 23:44:20

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#11 2018-04-10 23:50:57

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#12 2018-04-11 01:04:07

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#13 2018-04-11 01:38:32

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#14 2018-04-11 03:02:03

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#15 2018-04-11 03:09:54

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#16 2018-04-11 03:13:02

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#17 2018-04-11 03:38:07

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#18 2018-04-11 05:19:35

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#19 2018-04-11 08:36:37

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#20 2018-04-11 09:49:17

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#21 2018-04-11 09:53:48

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#22 2018-04-11 11:05:37

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