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#1 Re: Main Forum » Sheep needs a change » 2020-05-31 15:46:29

Honestly, sheep and lambs should be moved to corn instead of the weird berry+carrot thing.

RL, slightly fattening livestock ("conditioning" them) so they breed well or grow fast is done by feeding them a bit of grain in addition to grass/hay. In nature, grain is a seasonal high-calorie part of their normal diet (since grain = seeds of grasses).

OHOL cattle and pigs use corn kernels to get production of milk & meat. Sheep should use corn as well. It makes sense from a RL standpoint, and makes A LOT of sense in-game. Livestock feeding would be consistent across the species, corn is less tedious to process than filling a bowl with individual berries, and it's a much better return on water (4 corn = 4 animal feed per water, instead of only 1 feed per watered bush).

Down with berry+carrot! Corn for sheep!

#2 Re: News » Update: Forgiveness » 2020-05-30 21:30:29

jasonrohrer wrote:

your character now looks in the direction of your mouse (left or right) as you move it to click on things.  You can easily face the person you are talking to, and it generally makes everyone feel more alive.

Ty - that's a nice little quality of life fix.

jasonrohrer wrote:

After a bunch of complaints about untenable Eve locations (where all wild resources are stripped bare), I've changed the way Eve placement works to make sure that it always happens a bit to the west of the farthest-west active homeland.  Before, the Eve grid marched at a fixed rate, regardless of how fast civilization was expanding, meaning that it often fell behind and placed Eves right in the thick of things.

And this should be very helpful for new eves as well big_smile

#3 Re: Main Forum » We need to tell the inept players about the new Berry meta » 2020-05-24 22:01:09

cordy wrote:


I once suggested Crop Signs to stop berry over-planting....

....jason replied: ... "Leave a paper note inside the fence to avoid confusion, or even a sign, which would be visible outside the fence."

lol lol lol

That's a wonderful idea!

If we ever got crop signs, it'd be nice if there was a new object for the sign part. Piece of bark, pulled off pine trees by hand perhaps? Paper or wooden disks would work as well, but make the signs a bit more high-tech.

Skewer + sign bit = blank crop sign
Blank crop sign + [crop] = [crop] sign

or have it work like waystones:

Skewer + sign bit = blank crop sign
Blank crop sign + [crop] = blank sign with [crop] (sitting below the sign)
Use charcoal pencil on Blank sign with [crop] = [crop] sign (black charcoal drawing of the crop)

Lay the sign on the ground and smack with a round stone to stand it up, and remove it with a sharp stone (like a home marker).

Cleanup could be using a hatchet on the sign to get kindling and a skewer. Something like that. We're missing some ability to talk with our future descendants. Other than current letter signs that take up way too much visual space for crop fields, and are difficult to make with the tedious and HUGELY un-intuitive method of making letters from letter stock.

#4 Re: Main Forum » More advanced injury and disease system » 2020-05-17 20:50:58

Grim_Arbiter wrote:

I've said it too many times now, but them skeeters were the biggest griefers we ever probably ever had.. My god it was terrible.

At least now they stay in the dang jungles!

#5 Re: Main Forum » Reworking family specialization » 2020-04-30 07:06:53

Cantface wrote:

:C I wish we could have nice things like this.


This sounds amazing. I think Jason's mentioned before that he wants lives to feel different. Buffing races for their biomes gives a reason to have new, different flavors of town. Especially if we had biome-appropriate building materials & livestock as well. The only thing like that so far is the snow buildings in the arctic. It'd be so nice to have similar stuff for other biomes.

Jungle biome - thatch or wood-and-thatch huts, and/or more advanced bamboo buildings. Chickens/junglefowl for eggs instead of geese.

Desert biome - wattle-and-daub huts, and/or more advanced adobe or brick buildings. Goats instead of sheep for milk and meat, flax for thread & linen instead of wool and milkweed.

Arctic - already have snow-based buildings, and they're awesome. Reindeer for milk & meat?

I love when I've been a ginger born into an arctic fishing village. Because it's a sorely needed breath of fresh air in a game where lives feel ever more similar as various nerfs restrict gameplay choices.

I enjoyed going off as a young male and scouting out iron resources for the family, but that's not a thing anymore. In a terrible village or murder-opolis I had the option of running off as a young female, living off the wild while I searched for a new and better place, and then raising children as a pseudoEve or revitalizing a dead town. Now with family wells, family iron, homeland fertility...haring off to start viable family outposts is crippled. You can't search around & settle in a spot with many ponds anymore to ensure lot of accessible wells and water for the future. You can't enter or interact with anything in the wrong-colored area anymore. Lately the game feels more restrictive than it does constructive.

It'd be wonderful if future updates made MORE things possible, rather than only LESS.

#6 Re: Main Forum » Something i Think People are Missing... » 2020-04-29 12:49:06

Crumpaloo wrote:

Instead of inadvertently punishing the general player-base for something a small minority of players do,  expand the players ability to deal with the situation themselves. Like i said before, game design dictates player behavior, if you give us the right tools, well use them accordingly but so far thats not been the case, otherwise this wouldn't be getting brought up so much... with this like every other multiplayer game, and step in to deal with the tiny minority of players who are solely set on ruining the play experience for the majority. Curses, donkey town...those are ways to try and enable the majority playerbase to deal with griefers. But it's a temp fix at best, and not completely effective. And various changes to make it harder to grief can make it harder to play as well, and make for much less intuitive gameplay.

Other multiplayer games have no problem with getting rid of the small handful of truly toxic players (permaban, permanently moved to a different server, etc) to keep game quality and enjoyment high for the majority of their players.

OHOL could implement something like...check out all the players that have ever been sent to donkey town. Take say the 5-10% of those who have been in DT the most/longest compared to their total played time and make it so they can't join BS2. Ever. They can play any other server, and perhaps they autoconnect to a new DT-primary server when logging on so they can all play together easily. But obviously their playstyle is continuously not welcome in the newb/default server, so why keep letting them be there? Drama? You'll only be segregating the worst of the worst, so there'd still be plenty of drama to go around. But perhaps it would cut down on the more concentrated, egregious examples of griefing.

#7 Re: Main Forum » 33 Babies DURING A FAMINE?!?! » 2020-04-24 03:13:06

DestinyCall wrote:

But starving to death is interesting right?   Keeps you from getting bored in late game town anyways.   That appears to be the current goal, so the game is functioning exactly as intended.

Ugh. I hate that constantly increasing scarcity has been the go-to 'fix' for fast town advancement and some people being bored in advanced towns.

It's so backwards - the fix for too-fast advancement and bored players is to add more meaningful content. To NOT make it absolutely crucial for towns to rush to the top or die out. Camps and villages should be able to sustain at the camp/village level if their population is low enough. By itself that'd give more life-to-life variety. But the speed at which water runs out forces every village into constant fast upgrades (or dying out). Taking such a heavy-handed approach to limiting water, oil, iron, rubber, etc...feels like it cripples the game and promotes more stagnation and same-ness across different lives.

The bug fixes are great, but the current overall trend of "play the way I want" via scarcity, forced advancement, and hard coded inter-family reliance is frustrating.

#8 Re: Main Forum » Sugar station Tips and Tricks » 2020-04-22 19:35:52

antking:]# wrote:

if you are worried about the iron use of making sugar, which is a proper concern, you have nothing to fear as Bagasse is equal to kindling

I wish it really was equal to kindling.

Kindling can turn lit tinder into a fire, hot coals into fire, fire into fast fire, and can fuel both the bakery oven and kiln (turning to charcoal if covered).

Bagasse can only do hot coals into fire and fire into fast fire.

Not a ton of use there - being able to use it on lit tinder and in the oven would be quite handy.

Edit: you can also use a firebrand on kindling to start a new fire. You can't use a firebrand on bagesse. Annoyingly limited item.

#9 Re: Main Forum » In this video... » 2020-04-17 17:58:45

tobiasisahawk wrote:

Easy fix, once you kill someone it no longer takes a posse to kill you and you can't be healed if killed.  Boom, problem solved.

Good idea. If the posse system is meant to be mob 'justice' (by needing a certain number of people to allow a killing), then it ends up implying that the other villagers passively interfere with or otherwise don't permit non-mob-approved killings.

Being able to solo kill someone who killed another player (recently?) would just imply that the villagers aren't willing to interfere with a revenge/justice killing of a killer. Which works pretty well from a roleplaying view.

And from a non-roleplaying view, it's still a good way to get rid of griefer murder groups before they can chew through an entire town population. A few will die, but then one or two 'town guards' could handle getting rid of the killers.

Locking up all the knives isn't a viable strategy as others have mentioned - knives are absolutely necessary tools for town survival. Since knives are tools that get used often, and since most murder-griefers are in your own family, eventually they'll get access.

#10 Re: Main Forum » The food changes could be great/lean into stockpiling » 2020-04-16 15:47:04

fug wrote:

As annoying as tool slots can be having biome restrictions is just so much worse overall. I'd rather have to make choices on slots than just be straight locked from content unless I'm repeatedly killing myself which is frustrating for all parties involved.

Yeah - I'm not a huge fan of the tool slots but I think they're alright with the recent fixes: combining certain types of tools under one heading, not accidentally learning tools (like how you used to learn lasso by cutting one into two ropes), and having a free "you almost learned" use of a tool to allow for occasional side-crafting without penalty.

But biome restrictions in their current form are terrible. Simply terrible. An absolute magical lockout from a significant amount of the game each life feels both absurd and frustrating. I think biome/race integration could be implemented better - such as giving certain races bonuses or advantages in their areas, and hampering but not completely preventing other races from accessing that content.

The 'right' people will still be incentivized to specialize and the 'wrong' ones will have incentive to trade for easier access to those resources, but if you're unable to find or convince the right family to trade then the resources are still possible to acquire. Even if very difficult. And from a gameplay perspective, possible even if difficult is WAY more rewarding than "Nah, wrong color this life - no access for you."

#11 Re: Main Forum » The food changes could be great/lean into stockpiling » 2020-04-16 13:44:58

Léonard wrote:

People were starved for meaningful tech content that would allow technological progress!
That's why big towns would die out! ... For me, that's where the idea of pushing for content as a solution came from. There was no doubt, for me, that if Jason pushed these kind of updates, the amount of players needed to make it challenging in the first place would come naturally. If Jason made a farming automation update, the people interested by it would naturally come and it would be naturally challenging to support this kind of population.

Exactly! People don't need to be forced into upgrading tech by imposing new scarcity on resources. Players will upgrade tech anyway over time, just because it's there. And a game that regularly delivers new things to create and try retains player interest much better.

This game has so many new players that buy the game, run a handful of lives, and then leave. This means:

1) the game trailer and marketing doesn't accurately represent the game (arguably true at the moment)

2) game is too difficult to survive in for new players (which is a legitimate problem, one that might be helped by having a more comprehensive tutorial or a no-hunger/no-death sandbox zone supplied for learning)


3) there just isn't enough interesting or creative content to sustain player interest

Many people either gave up on the game completely, or just aren't playing for long periods of time because there's nothing new or interesting going on. Restrictions on top of restrictions, nerfs on top of nerfs...that can make the game harder and more complex. But IMO those DON'T make the game more interesting. They DON'T have a draw that encourages people to play more often. Content is king, and our king is missing.

#12 Re: Main Forum » The food changes could be great/lean into stockpiling » 2020-04-14 01:29:23

This ties in nicely with the idea that players should be able to make larger, more complex civilizations over time. But complexity doesn't arise when there's constant scarcity and most effort has to go towards basic sustenance and survival. People develop larger, more varied towns and jobs when important things AREN'T scarce. People specialize more when they have the luxury to do so - when food, water, and clothing/shelter are stable and abundant.

Eve camps are a good example - players need to be jack-of-all-trades in early camps. Because there's a constant need for EVERYTHING. Slapping together something functional and necessary is all that's possible at the time, because wasting time and food trying to be creative or new can kill off early camps.

It's only in later towns where players can devote more of each life to a creative pursuit, because others can also do so. In real life, civilizations become more advanced as they make technology to make life easier and more productive. When only a few people are needed farming to feed thousands that frees up a lot of people to spend time learning and developing more useful tech and innovations. But part of that is being able to store and stockpile necessary materials in large amounts so they're easily available when needed.

There's a reason granaries are an ancient technology that persists in the modern world - we need to be able to produce and efficiently store plenty of essential goods for a stable society to develop. Constantly being on the verge of running out doesn't leave much room for new behavior.

Right now I think part of the problem is that we're hampered by water availability. Nearly everything in town relies upon water, and changes over the last year have kept chipping away at a town's water supply. No pond-based wells, well site tap-out radius, less oil, racial restrictions crippling the ability to make necessary well upgrades, etc.

Casino town didn't develop because of constant stress. It developed because people had the luxury of abundance so they could focus on fun or creative outlets instead of feeling compelled to focus on saving a crippled town.

I do like many other updates, but 'updates' that push and push for towns to die out easier from resource scarcity (or absolute inability to access a biome -_-)...for me, that doesn't help make the game more fun. Neutering our ability in game to advance and prosper for more "challenging" drudgery

#13 Re: Main Forum » Another take on specialization (no dropsy, no restriction) » 2020-04-07 18:00:34

Dodge wrote:

Possible solution: There could be jungle and deep jungle biome, jungle surrounds deep jungle but only deep jungle grows latex and palm trees (same concept for other specialty biomes) ... No dropsy mechanic but very high risk of death. You can get resources in your non specialty biome but you might regret it.

arkajalka wrote:

Just restrict it so that horses cant go into special biomes and move their natural location to prairie. ... Also horses are too overpowered atm, rendering cars totally useless. Buff car by not having it consume so much fuel and make it able to go past every biome.

These are amazing ideas!

One of the things I hate about the specialization update is the magical uselessness of being in 'unfamiliar' biomes. Can't gather, can't interact with anything, can't even hold an item. That massive nerfing "update" locked away large parts of the game for players each life. But making the special biomes more hostile overall while giving the associated race a buff to working in that biome is much less irritating.

Perhaps along with being less affected by temperature extremes and hostile wildlife, the appropriate people know their biome well and get full amounts when gathering resources. And the wrong families for that area get reduced results - only one bowl of sulfur from a spring? Only able to collect bowls of latex instead of buckets, or new partial buckets? Higher chance of failure when going for oil?

With mechanics like that things are still possible. MUCH more difficult, and much more risky for the wrong races...but still possible. If people absolutely need resources for their village to survive, they can find a way to get them. Yet it still encourages inter-family trade, because having the right race harvest a biome is going to be much safer, and with a higher output.

I know Jason is trying to improve the game...I suppose. But I swear that some of the changes are purposefully, pointedly antagonistic towards the player base. A "whack the players with a big stick so they fall in line and behave how I want" approach, rather than giving us more constructive or productive reasons to behave in whatever way. A lot of the game changes just feel very heavy-handed and many times poorly thought out when considering how those changes interact with other parts of the game. I dunno. It's just frustrating sometimes.

#14 Re: Main Forum » Big change incoming: animal attacks can happen on non-empty tiles » 2020-03-27 17:12:29

pein wrote:

There is no chance you would kill a bear with arrows, as I said, they survive easily chest shots, if they are on 4 legs it's under them and they got a thick skin and fat layer, if they are on 2 feet, it's already too late. They might die eventually but it might take more than a day and doesn't really affect their movement, it even makes them mad. Maybe if you shot them in the eye all through the brain but I doubt you can aim that well for a moving target.

antking:]# wrote:

Na a bow and arrow could never kill a bear... a bears hide is too tough, I think that we have gotten to used to our modern arsenal to understand the true terror a bear can be...
Bears are scary and in real life the only really way to effectively kill a bear with primative weapons is to attack a bear in  a group which no one ever did because it was a bear, and their were hundreds of easer things to kill besides a bear, that's why we don't have any bear meat based recipes any where in the world.

Lol. Black bear, grizzly/brown bear, and even polar bear have all been successfully hunted using bow & arrow. Using modern compound bows as well as traditional recurve & longbows...a few people have even taken bears using primitive self-bows with handmade arrows.

Fred Bear (some call him the father of modern archery) took a world-record sized grizzly bear in 1962 with his recurve. And an Alaskan hunter in...2009? 2010? pushed the record farther with an even larger grizzly - he was also using a traditional recurve bow. Archery equipment wouldn't be legal hunting gear for large animals if they didn't work well.

Hell, Fred Bear killed a bull African elephant with a 75-pound draw weight recurve (back in 1964, before these animals were as endangered, and before people knew as much about their intelligence.) With good arrow placement (need lots of practice obviously), heavy & sharp arrows, and a bow with high draw weight there's no land animal that can't be taken down with archery equipment.

#15 Re: Main Forum » There are 28 new piles in this week's update already (aka, DOZENS) » 2020-03-20 07:43:12

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Piles of straw is unnecessary at all IMO, but bucket of wheat would be very useful (I don't know if this wouldn't be too OP tho), box of wheat would be too much for sure.

I dunno, I think it'd be nice to make temporary straw bales to easily move multiple sheaves of straw. Sure, you can load some into a cart to move (if there's a cart available), but there's nothing wrong with having a little variety in the game. Some different approaches to achieving the same goals. Why not?

Threshed wheat storage would be amazing. I think better storage and transportation of goods is a cornerstone of being able to specialize - easier for farmers to stock the bakery with grain when it isn't taking up all the bowls and floor space, and easier for someone to be a dedicated baker if they're not having to run back and forth to-and-from the wheat farm for farmer.

Buckets and boxes are a bit weird for wheat storage though. It'd be nice if we had a jute plant harvestable for fiber, similar to milkweed. Harvest jute fiber, work a bunch of fiber on the loom to make burlap, then remove and sew to make a burlap sack that can store some amount of threshed wheat, cleaned dry beans, corn kernels, etc. That'd be awesome.

Also, thirding the needle thing - They do get made in bulk, because various rabbit hunters, accidental picker-uppers, doctors, and the "I just wanna sew this one thing waaaaaaay over here" end up carrying a bunch off to all corners of the map. It's always nice to have 6-10 near the sheep pen so you're pretty much assured to find a needle when you need one later.

#16 Re: News » Update: Stacked » 2020-03-20 07:23:45

I <3 organization.

Clutter be gone!

#17 Re: News » Update: Known Homeland » 2020-03-14 09:50:16

Thanks for the info everybody!

So far I'm quite liking the homelands update - it encourages more towns, family cohesiveness, and gives a bit more importance to male children since they can be important traders or resource gatherers far away from town without losing out on producing children. Also love the previous change to tool slots! It's really nice being able to do an occasional one-off thing without messing up my tool slots for the profession(s) I wanted to do that life.

#18 Re: News » Update: Known Homeland » 2020-03-13 20:08:55

Wuatduhf wrote:

Families become restricted to their Home Land after a Shallow Well is upgraded to a Deep Well. Until the family has a Deep Well, they are considered "nomads" and can have babies anywhere.

Okay, good. But this means that nomad Eve families could gather in another family's bell town and still be fertile? Meaning multi-racial towns are still possible?

#19 Re: News » Update: Known Homeland » 2020-03-13 08:29:06

jasonrohrer wrote:

Each family now has a homeland around their well.  The place where the water tastes sweet to them.  A family only feels comfortable enough to have babies in their homeland.  Elsewhere, they are too homesick to breed.

Will a new Eve need to solo through making a shovel and digging a well before she can have children?

#20 Re: Main Forum » My worries with the homesick update » 2020-03-12 12:51:12

How will homesickness affect new Eves? Will they not have any children until they manage to make a shovel and dig a well?

#21 Re: Main Forum » How about making one week without tool slots and race restrictions? » 2020-03-06 07:26:46

Wow, I'd forgotten about that post.

It's interesting how the August-2019-Morti post and March-2020-Morti posts sound like they were written by two completely different people. Not just the content, but also HOW they're written - the phrasing used, conversational method, and apparent train of thought are really quite different.

#22 Re: Main Forum » How about making one week without tool slots and race restrictions? » 2020-03-05 01:49:29

Jesus, Morti. That was a long, rambling, just plain odd way to bitch at someone for expressing their opinion/desires.


Coconut Fruit: "Hey, I don't like these mechanics and it'd be great if they could be reverted for a spell, just to see what happens."

Morti: [long Disneyland family trip analogy], "Please understand" "Try to understand" "you're whining and we're not" (speaking for everyone else???) "Shall we argue? I want to, and I will, if that is what it takes for you to understand." "Everybody here are babies, wasting Jason's time with whining complaints" "Such complaints are disgustingly selfish" "How dare you" "You're such a baby" "Why are you trying to make me feel bad about being mean???" "Everybody who disagrees with me is a baby"

What...the...hell? It's like you went off meds or something before posting. Just a really, really strange way to interact with other people - people who just like you paid for the game and want to voice their opinions of the game.

#23 Re: Main Forum » Setting which EXE steam launches? » 2020-03-01 22:07:30

Mekkie wrote:

I've been looking up launch parameters, but can't seem to figure out how to just make steam look at OneLifeApp_H_windows.exe instead of OneLife.exe.  ... If anyone knows what I'm missing here, would love your input!  Thanks <3

Open Steam. Click "Add a Game" down in the lower left corner. Choose to add a NON-STEAM game. Click browse, and navigate to your OHOL steam folder location*. Select the OneLifeApp_H_windows exe. Open. Now it should be checked and at the top of the list, click Add Selected Programs. Now it's in your steam library and can be started up like any other game. You can right-click and go to Properties to rename it to "OHOL with Hetwu mod" or whatever.

*If you don't know where this is, in your steam library right-click on the game, go down to Manage, and Browse Local Files.

#24 Main Forum » Problem with current Property Fence mechanics » 2020-02-25 22:05:51

Replies: 18

This post reminded me of an issue with the current state of property fences - … 762#p89762

We have something you can place down in seconds, pre-fire, from a flint chip + branch (don't even need a rope anymore), and is ready to go in just 5 minutes...

...but that takes way more time and effort to remove. You need to be in a post-fire town that's progressed through making a smithing hammer, file, chisel, and blade blank to get the necessary knife (for wood shavings and charcoal pencil). Then you gotta make paper. Then you have to be or find a person minutes from old age death, plus another player (maybe even two strangers if your tool slots are full), and hope that both players understand what's needed* and are willing to help before they die naturally or surprise-starve from old age. And if you've managed to successfully mark the fence, there's now a 10 minute wait before it finally breaks.

* - The language barrier sucks here. If the helpers needed aren't your race and there's no (cooperative) white folk around then you have to use paper communication. Which is tedious when talking to a 55+ person. And especially so if there's no rubber in your village yet to make eraser balls.


Yes, the ease and resource-free setup makes property fences make nice starter sheep pens for early Eve camps.

But that also makes property fences an easy way for some douchy players to trap and kill new, uninformed players. And to trap their own children if female. And to easily steal items from towns to stash in a nearby fenced-off location that's now practically non-accessible for the next 30-50+ minutes. Enforced posse-killing helps to cut down on random 1v1 murders. But it makes it more difficult to get a gate knocked down when other players don't understand the system. Even with a posse the gate-owner can spend quite awhile kiting around on a horse at a distance or obnoxiously sitting in the center of a dropsy biome so they can't be targeted. Or they can head off to go screw over another village somewhere else. Now they're gone and impossible to find/kill.

I think the mechanics or complete impassibility of property fences needs to be reworked. Why can't we use a knife to cut the gate hinges? Why can't a person who isn't carrying anything just...climb over? Something needs changed.

If property fences are meant to be easy starter delineator of areas or simple livestock barrier, then they should be nearly as easy to break, or fairly easy to bypass for us fancy tool-using be-thumbed primates. If they're supposed to be utterly impassable sturdy town walls or precious-resource guarding structures (such as palisades**) then they need to be more difficult to make or take much longer to set up.

**Log palisade vs twig/withy fence -
Log palisade vs twig fence

#25 Re: Main Forum » Pen Transformation » 2020-02-24 03:48:44

<3 this post, especially the pen diagram and general workflow layouts.

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