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#1 2020-04-07 04:27:08

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,287

Sheep needs a change

We would need another stage to sheep

1 lamb
2 young sheep can give wool, won't poop, won't have lamb, can't be killed for meat
3 old sheep, poops on transition, gives wool once, can be slaughtered

This would increase the fleece, reduce meat, reduce poop.
We got way too much poop when people feed the naked sheep and we lose out on food.
People still ignorant, killing mouflon, feeding shorn sheep, shearing all sheep.

Since we can move them with ropes, we could have butcher areas, basically, sheep that has been shorn twice, shouldn't be possible to fed again and the only use would be meat production.

We still got too much meat at times. Since you already pay the water price with food, it doesn't make sense to not get meat, but if it's too much then you got space issues.
I made a lot of pens, like most in OHOL history.
The issue with big pens is that people don't clean it, they leave bones, random items in it so it's basically worse than a smaller pen.
Generally, 5x5 is enough, a sheep will have a lamb and one more than the first dies or gets fed. So they use 3 tiles each, one for sheep, one for lamb, one for poop.

Shirts need 6 wool, Newcomen clothes 12, if the mouflon is dead, you should have one unshorn sheep for new lambs, so you won't waste food to get new lambs.  So you need 13 sheep, which can be done with 25 tiles.  Ofc would be nice if people clean the poop after they make clothes.

We don't need that much compost now, since if you would make all poop into compost than the town would be overflood and you use water on it, and still needs water to use it up, it's just too much.

It was bad when people blocked the compost cycle but right now it's too much.
So introducing a new state where it can't poop, but gives fleece would be nice, better to have an excess of it.
So old sheep could be sheared once then just killed, would fix the issue with feeding the shorn ones. Also would allow to move them with a rope since has no other use. Butcheries could be built to deal with the transport of meat and bones.
People would need to go through the cycle of feeding sheep twice to get meet, but they couldn't get fleece multiple time and overflood with poop.

This would nerf mutton so maybe a bit of buff to pip value and compost amount would be needed but overall would be better and would give us a purpose to build butchery.


https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7986 livestock pens 4.0
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#2 2020-04-07 04:52:31

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,135

Re: Sheep needs a change

How about wool regrows automatically after X minutes.   

Feed babies to make more adult sheep and poop.  Adult sheep do not eat.    Make more adult sheep to produce fleece faster and generate meat when killed.

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#3 2020-04-07 05:23:58

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,287

Re: Sheep needs a change

Would be nice if they age and die. Then we would need to be sure to kill them when they are old. But would make it hard to get new mouflon, maybe that stay the same. But then every animal should do so. Also, Jason won't buff things. Would be a bit op to get fleece without resource investment, I mean I'm not sure it worth one single fleece for a full bowl. It's okay for a side product. I guess if it would have more uses then time-based fleece could work. Like using a lot for nets or like Molotov cocktail like in judgement. Maybe even for hp bar and curing diseases or healing injury.

But another stage for sheep would be a resize on the sprite and parallel naming.


https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7986 livestock pens 4.0
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4411 maxi guide

Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.

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#4 2020-04-07 06:16:27

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Sheep needs a change

If poop is the issue then just have it decay faster?

Also they should give birth only when fed maybe so you dont get continuously dead lambs everywhere.

Feeding shorn sheep = fleece+poop

Feeding sheep with wool = lamb+poop

Feeding lamb = meat+fleece+poop

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#5 2020-04-07 06:26:12

miskas
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2018-03-24
Posts: 1,087

Re: Sheep needs a change

Dodge this will double the cost of meat pies , and cooked muton will be less efficient than berries.

just let the poop decay faster.

Last edited by miskas (2020-04-07 06:26:53)


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#6 2020-04-07 06:35:06

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,287

Re: Sheep needs a change

when you pay for it kinda feels bad not using it
could be other use like breeding worms? used up by eggs?  it could be less of it since we don't use so much.

your suggestion with feeding one with wool could only be useful if the lamb would be forever alive.

fleece doesn't feel to be enough worth it and poop is too much so should be a conscious choice between these two, that would make sense.

How about sheep food would be 2 portions, feeding half would give back wool, feeding two would give a poop, feeding woolly would give lamb on demand, otherwise they wouldn't spam it. So you could feed woolly and lamb or feed two shorn ones for fleece.

But would be more fun if sheep takes more time/work, and has a middle size version just for wool.

IRL they generally keep them at home until small then they send it to pastures later, I think generally they live for 3 years, they are shorn multiple times, old ones give more milk and wool but the meat degrades if too old. That would be an option to have more fleece but no meat.

Dammit Dodge, just like Jason, you always find the most boring solution with a nerf but no reward.


https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7986 livestock pens 4.0
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4411 maxi guide

Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.

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#7 2020-04-07 07:28:34

Elsayal
Member
Registered: 2018-11-04
Posts: 261

Re: Sheep needs a change

I'm not sure if it's a top priority :s


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#8 2020-04-07 07:35:16

Caprys
Member
Registered: 2020-03-19
Posts: 127

Re: Sheep needs a change

Dodge wrote:

If poop is the issue then just have it decay faster?

Also they should give birth only when fed maybe so you dont get continuously dead lambs everywhere.

Feeding shorn sheep = fleece+poop

Feeding sheep with wool = lamb+poop

Feeding lamb = meat+fleece+poop

If you put the wooly sheep in the little one tile pens at the side and close the gate then it will still get lambs but the lamb will despawn because there is no free tile. Just let the sheep out when you need lambs. This way you don't get continuously dead lambs in your main pen.

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#9 2020-04-07 08:02:04

Elsayal
Member
Registered: 2018-11-04
Posts: 261

Re: Sheep needs a change

I agree with miskas : if poop is the issue, sheep doesn't need a third stage.

It's the poop that need a special treatment. Decaying faster looks the easiest way, or maybe make something usefull with it, like fuel / kindling-like.


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#10 2020-04-07 08:41:48

Silanar
Member
Registered: 2019-06-24
Posts: 12

Re: Sheep needs a change

bio - kerosine from poop would be a think xD xD xD
but then we dont need ginger anymore.
from one poop u can get an goose + soil.
its decay anyways if u let them on the ground.
if we had more water sources , your sheep proplem would disapear i think.
but im mostly bake mutton pies so for me its still fine atm.

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#11 2020-04-07 10:06:45

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 696

Re: Sheep needs a change

Wait. Pein arent you suggesting basically a hard nerf? Pay two times to reach regular adult sheep with the middle pay giving only fleece and no meat or poop?
Seems like an awful trade.


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#12 2020-04-07 10:11:51

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Sheep needs a change

miskas wrote:

Dodge this will double the cost of meat pies , and cooked muton will be less efficient than berries.

just let the poop decay faster.


There could be 6 meat per mutton or even more and at least we wouldn't have pens clogged with dead lambs anymore.

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#13 2020-04-07 10:23:07

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 696

Re: Sheep needs a change

Dodge wrote:
miskas wrote:

Dodge this will double the cost of meat pies , and cooked muton will be less efficient than berries.

just let the poop decay faster.


There could be 6 meat per mutton or even more and at least we wouldn't have pens clogged with dead lambs anymore.

Man your idea is even worst than Peins, you want to pay double sheep food per new sheep. Thats not only double cost of meat but double cost of fleece too.

You guys are hard pushing all the worst nerfs, they have zero impact in the game dynamic except making it harder, may as well double the hunger rate if you want to push this kind of nerfs. They are useless because they just create scarcity, they don´t influence the relationship between players at all.


- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

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#14 2020-04-07 10:28:14

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Sheep needs a change

testo wrote:
Dodge wrote:
miskas wrote:

Dodge this will double the cost of meat pies , and cooked muton will be less efficient than berries.

just let the poop decay faster.


There could be 6 meat per mutton or even more and at least we wouldn't have pens clogged with dead lambs anymore.

Man your idea is even worst than Peins, you want to pay double sheep food per new sheep. Thats not only double cost of meat but double cost of fleece too.

You guys are hard pushing all the worst nerfs, they have zero impact in the game dynamic except making it harder, may as well double the hunger rate if you want to push this kind of nerfs. They are useless because they just create scarcity, they don´t influence the relationship between players at all.

It's a fix for all the poop and dead lambs, meat and fleece can be buffed to give more...

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#15 2020-04-07 10:29:01

DrRoy
Member
Registered: 2020-03-30
Posts: 19

Re: Sheep needs a change

While I don't really enjoy how sheeps feel (lamb does from hunger, sheep does not. Only grows whool when fed etc.) I disagree with you here pein.

The game is updated every week and can thus change the value of each and every item. Imo it would be bad design to reach for a perfect balance and smooth workflow. If you now nerf poop, maybe next update we don't have enough and need to rebalance again - not a nice way to solve this.

This game is said to be about problem solving. And 'too much poop' as well as 'too few poop' are imo nice problems.

As long as it doesn't break the game I would always prefer an in-game solution.

If poop is rare we can feed the shorn sheep in order to avoid too many bones and mutton, then we can use dung boxes for proper storage.

If there is too much poop we also have the option to clean. Put it in a bucket, bring it out of town, let it decay there. Or maybe pens are just not viable anymore and we now need free roaming sheep + carrot garden?

However, when there is no in-game solution that feels good (shoveling dung out of a bucket is repetitive and tedious), I would prefer a overhaul of said solution. Maybe let us empty a dung bucket all at one to get a big warm smelly pile of sh** that decays after half an hour. Maybe even let us fill carts with dung.

You get the idea, don't remove the problem, improve the solution.

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#16 2020-04-07 10:39:44

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 696

Re: Sheep needs a change

Dodge wrote:
testo wrote:
Dodge wrote:

There could be 6 meat per mutton or even more and at least we wouldn't have pens clogged with dead lambs anymore.

Man your idea is even worst than Peins, you want to pay double sheep food per new sheep. Thats not only double cost of meat but double cost of fleece too.

You guys are hard pushing all the worst nerfs, they have zero impact in the game dynamic except making it harder, may as well double the hunger rate if you want to push this kind of nerfs. They are useless because they just create scarcity, they don´t influence the relationship between players at all.

It's a fix for all the poop and dead lambs, meat and fleece can be buffed to give more...

Man your "fixes" are terrible disguises for hard nerfs tbh.

Too much poo? Make compost use double poo.

Too many dead lambs? Make sheep$mouflon don´t have lamb until you feed it a carrot, decrease sheep food to bowl of berry.

Same solution with a nerf on poo because it is too abundant. And way simpler.


- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

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#17 2020-04-07 11:07:56

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,324

Re: Sheep needs a change

testo wrote:
Dodge wrote:
testo wrote:

Man your idea is even worst than Peins, you want to pay double sheep food per new sheep. Thats not only double cost of meat but double cost of fleece too.

You guys are hard pushing all the worst nerfs, they have zero impact in the game dynamic except making it harder, may as well double the hunger rate if you want to push this kind of nerfs. They are useless because they just create scarcity, they don´t influence the relationship between players at all.

It's a fix for all the poop and dead lambs, meat and fleece can be buffed to give more...

Man your "fixes" are terrible disguises for hard nerfs tbh.

Too much poo? Make compost use double poo.

Too many dead lambs? Make sheep$mouflon don´t have lamb until you feed it a carrot, decrease sheep food to bowl of berry.

Same solution with a nerf on poo because it is too abundant. And way simpler.

You basically said the same thing as me except replaced the 6 meat with carrot.

Then you say i nerf but suggest double poo for compost, so basically double iron usage...

If i'm terrible then you're the worst lol

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#18 2020-04-07 11:29:01

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 696

Re: Sheep needs a change

Dodge wrote:
testo wrote:
Dodge wrote:

It's a fix for all the poop and dead lambs, meat and fleece can be buffed to give more...

Man your "fixes" are terrible disguises for hard nerfs tbh.

Too much poo? Make compost use double poo.

Too many dead lambs? Make sheep$mouflon don´t have lamb until you feed it a carrot, decrease sheep food to bowl of berry.

Same solution with a nerf on poo because it is too abundant. And way simpler.

You basically said the same thing as me except replaced the 6 meat with carrot.

Then you say i nerf but suggest double poo for compost, so basically double iron usage...

If i'm terrible then you're the worst lol

Clearly I wouldn´t change sheep at all Dodge, and while im open when I say this is a nerf you hide it behind a "fix" the same as Pein.
You can lol all you want, we all know who the ones pushing for more restrictions and resource scarcity are. At the very least be open about it, you both want mutton and fleece to cost more and all the rest is just bullshit around.

So yeah, sheep doesn´t need a change at all, if poo is a problem make it decay faster if not in a bucket. Dead lamb a problem? Just make it decay faster.


- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

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#19 2020-04-07 12:33:05

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,135

Re: Sheep needs a change

Doesn't poop already decay?

Why is this even a problem?

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#20 2020-04-07 12:51:21

arkajalka
Member
From: Eesti
Registered: 2018-03-23
Posts: 437

Re: Sheep needs a change

Good post, deffinetly agree on almost everything.

We need more uses for poop.

The worm breed was nice idea. Consume poop on that.
Maybe even add consume poop on producing a duck.

Decay timer on poop. 2nd stages it goes to stage "poop with flyes" and maybe add a usage for flyes.
Duck food? Git eggs? Make nett to catch the flyes. Shrimp catching thing + long shaft.


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#21 2020-04-07 13:02:52

Elsayal
Member
Registered: 2018-11-04
Posts: 261

Re: Sheep needs a change

By the way, don't we need chocolate in Jungle biome to make easter eggs ? With some paint on them smile


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#22 2020-04-07 13:23:31

fug
Member
Registered: 2019-08-21
Posts: 1,007

Re: Sheep needs a change

DestinyCall wrote:

Doesn't poop already decay?

Why is this even a problem?

I think people just find issue with the pen getting flooded with poop. Ever since Jason introduced hungry work to sheep he discouraged both griefing the pen (killing all the sheep) and people actually slaughtering sheep like they would previously (no more mutton biomes.)

Since the people wanting wool aren't killing sheep the sheep pen gets filled up with tons of poop which makes working inside the pen a complete mess with poop and corpses everywhere. Best choice is to teach the lazy folks how to kill > shear > feed > repeat instead of spam feeding the same sheep.


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#23 2020-04-07 13:29:10

Elsayal
Member
Registered: 2018-11-04
Posts: 261

Re: Sheep needs a change

We can work around this, with a box of dung and bucket.


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#24 2020-04-07 13:37:24

fug
Member
Registered: 2019-08-21
Posts: 1,007

Re: Sheep needs a change

When poop is being produced to the level you need dung boxes that means its a problem.

You're never going to be in a state where you're composting whole boxes away while not having poop already in the pen.


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#25 2020-04-07 13:48:22

Elsayal
Member
Registered: 2018-11-04
Posts: 261

Re: Sheep needs a change

Is it a bigger problem than water shortage ?

I mean, it looks like it is a small issue, not a big problem.
To me it's like saying : we need pile of 12 bowls instead of 6 cause we have too much bowls and not enough space to work !

Well, make space, use a shovel, make a bigger pen, make a second dung box.

We do have solutions. Not perfect & not ultimate for sure, but we do have them.


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