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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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#1 Re: Main Forum » Capitalistic idea » 2019-08-16 21:49:42
Uhg please no we already live in a capitalist world, its nice to escape every once in a while. Eat the rich and griefers get the gulag.
#2 Re: News » Update: Whole New World » 2019-08-14 20:21:17
Nobody seems to be noticing that fences are removable by elders. Any town big enough to support living is big enough to create paper to take down the fence.
Also if you don't like the changes to the game, It's not your game, plus older versions are always on github available for server hosting if it's that much of a problem to you.
I never wanted a dislike button on this forum until I read this comment
#3 Re: Main Forum » almost 2 months after the warsword was added. » 2019-07-12 14:03:23
I agree with Tarr in the trust issue. There are several times I´ve thought to myself that maybe Jason doesn´t really care that much about the future of the game because he already cashed in. There is no incentive on making the game really good, simply because the effort/benefit ratio isn´t worth it. As long as the game keeps selling a few copies he will keep working on it, but there is no big deal if the player base diminish to extinction. I won´t complain about that, but it doesn´t meet the expectations I had when I first saw that amazing promotional video.
I´m also gonna be a real dick and just throw what is for me the elephant in the room here, because 99% of the things not working or poorly designed in the game can be traced to one single fact:
Jason works alone.
I am not talking about the technical side of programming or who knows how many years of experience are required to understand the engine. It is about the gameplay, game design and overall thought process of the game. You see, I´m not tech sawy by any means. I can barely read some pseudocode in latex or java. But I am an educator. I work with people, and I understand one capital missing point in OHOL, wich is: A social game will never be succesful with one single person holding the strings. It just can´t, because every interaction, every decition made will only have one vision imposed over the players. That may work for a platformer, shooter, rpg and virtually any kind of game but a multiplayer social game.
I want to be cristal clear about this. I really believe he reads a lot of the suggestions here in the forums and has good advice from other people. This is about parts in the design he won´t agree. This is about the creative process that comes as a result from a team: people working togheter with different and sometimes opposing views, with equal power and influence over the final result. As it stands he has no way of getting into some aspects in the development process, because he holds all the power in what is and what is not made out of it. I don´t blame him, we are all blind to our own device.
I believe the best idea he could have is to hire a team and work with other people. To hear and discuss on equal footing with people having a different "vision of the game". But that won´t happen. That is why I believe OHOL is doomed to a sad and playerbase-bleeding end. And that is why I barely play a few hours a month nowdays.
Even though im against the war sword and "rough edges", I dont think he needs the creative input of others; he does need a team or even just another person that can handle the business/marketing/customer service side so that he could completely focus on the design and implementation. If he even further got someone to come on board to help with bug fixes for a few hours a week, then we would be in a good spot. We go through cycles of new content, weeks of bug fixes, Jason going to some conference/talk/interview whatever, potentially a fight or scandal and then we get new content again. He seems to want to try new mechanics, but because he has to do everything, something that probably in his head was more experimental ends up just sticking. Then he gets pressured to make more content so instead of reworking that system he puts a new system in on top which causes the previous recent content updates harder to extricate in the future. The reason im not gonna call for him to bring in additional creative partners is also because he did work on this game for a few years before it got released so we dont know what content he has planned but unimplemented. Who knows, maybe that future content will cause some of the things we dont like now to make sense, but we are only ever gonna get there if he brings people in so he can focus on making it happen, because if we dont get there soon this game might not make it. The daily players is pretty low right now and he seems to be freezing/fudging the hours/lives count on the homepage because it doesn't change for days at a time. Its funny, Jason is the exact opposite of the vision he has for his game, he doesn't like to work with others and rather than be part of some kind of cooperation that is more productive than the sum of his parts, he would rather have less just so he can say he did it all.
#4 Main Forum » Newcomen pump broken? » 2019-07-10 18:20:03
- Anandamide
- Replies: 6
So iv'e been away for a few months, was doing an eve chain to play with the new updates and I had two charcoal pumps get exhausted on the first go around, it then makes me disassemble them and wont let me upgrade it to the kerosene pump. Am I just unlucky or am I doing something wrong?
#5 Re: Main Forum » Sexual Assault is never funny. » 2019-04-23 01:02:31
I don't buy in to the "it's impossible to joke about __" idea because it can be possible and jokes depend on context and a lot of factors. But, if someone says that they are not comfortable I care about that a lot. It's not that hard.
There is basically no context in which sexual assault is funny or humorous. Lets just be clear about it. If you(or anyone else) finds it funny, you should think real hard about why you think it is so.
#6 Re: Main Forum » How the New Clothes are NOT an Improvement to Clothing » 2019-04-20 16:07:28
Sometimes things that are expensive are worse - Freckle 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbhcRKsRwFM
#7 Re: Main Forum » Can mods stop banning people for no valid reason? » 2019-04-12 22:07:20
I want to see a reformed "toxic" become the user "non-toxic", who is 1: vegan, 2: feminist, 3: donates money to cancer research.
Do you accept the challenge?
Oh if only it was that easy 
#8 Re: Main Forum » Trash and Decay update. » 2019-04-10 20:58:50
futurebird wrote:Grain should not decay if it's in a container. And we need some kind of silo where you can pour like 12 wheat bowls (or flour) and they last basically forever.
We keep getting new cooking items but not new cooking TECH.
A simple solution to the grain storage problem - let us pour bowls of wheat into an rmpty crockpot for storage. Uses an existing item, removes common clutter.
The crock would be nice to use to make a bunch of pie filling at once, maybe we could get a sack(with cloth from the loom) that can be filled with a couple baskets of soil, or a bunch of bowls of wheat/flour. This does require a new item but differentiated items for different tasks is good, especially for storage.
#9 Re: Main Forum » Tone down colors » 2019-04-08 12:22:02
I think the colors are fun and vibrant 
. Not everything has to be realistic, and there are a number of natural pigments that produce vivid colors. If anything, one day we could just get a set of pastel dyes, and I can live my pink boi dreams.
#10 Re: Main Forum » Nerf Compost » 2019-04-08 12:16:07
Bumping because relevant again. Something needs to be done about the poop.
#11 Re: Main Forum » Can someone check the new content before I release it? » 2019-04-06 14:12:12
Hay Jason I think when you turn
fleece into thread you should turn a fleece into a small ball of yarn. this would be more accurate in that a fleece shouldn't = a ball of thread and also it would make this clothing slightly cheaper.... and you shear the small ball of yarn it turns into the ball of thread.
Clothing in terms of thread usage is already really cheap though. One sheep can make a backpack and a set of clothes for a person. Also, you make thread into yarn irl. A single thread is spun from fibers(or multiple in parallel), and then multiple threads get twisted together to make yarn. Rope is really just a thick yarn, or made from multiple yarns twisted together, and the only real difference is the kind of fibers used.
#12 Re: Main Forum » Violet City, a cute and quiet place to die (Story with pics) » 2019-04-06 14:04:09
pein wrote:don't till one soil, it's like a spit in the others face
use 2 soil to tillFor people who don't know why, what he means is that, you can use two bowls of soil and one hoe use instead of one bowl of soil and two hoe uses. It's more efficient iron-wise, since you can make compost, but there's no way to make iron. You could also use a hoe on 3 bowls of soil (one basket), but that's a waste since you only need 2 bowls.
Using milkweed hoes, 2x till, with compost is more iron and water(and thus iron) efficient than steel hoes. Just saying.
#13 Re: Main Forum » Rare resources and possible uses » 2019-04-06 13:59:06
I think people would die for hemp rope making made ez.
Ill gladly die on that hill with you.
#14 Re: Main Forum » Tried to spread the good word. » 2019-03-31 23:44:00
I deleted it, they clearly are not interested and I hate getting into those kinds of arguments. It was pointless and im moving on with my life. *** I just thought it would be nice to get some more people here and I figured they would be interested in OHOL. My post might have been a bit spammy in the sense that I was advertising a paid game, im obviously not paid by Jason, but there is no way in the context of me posting it there that wouldnt have made at least some people think its spam.***
#15 Main Forum » Tried to spread the good word. » 2019-03-31 22:55:54
- Anandamide
- Replies: 4
So this game is very heavily inspired by Primitive Technology's videos. I tried to show the PT subreddit and they hate it 
https://www.reddit.com/r/PrimitiveTechn … rent_game/
#16 Re: Main Forum » Nerf Compost » 2019-03-31 19:08:00
How about vermicompost. Shovel on newcomen tower stakes gives worm box holes. Fence kit + boards + rope give worm box kit. Worm box kit + holes give you a worm box. Paper + shears gives one basket of worm bedding, and depending on if we got food decay, you would add in x many bowls of decayed food or x units of some food other than current compost foods. Top it with a worm. Real vermicompost wouldnt do this, but we could also have it require the sheep bones. Sheep compost gets nerfed to net 3 baskets of soil after replant, and vermicompost will yield 8-10 baskets of soil and three worms(can be fisherman and shrimper at the same time now).
#17 Re: Main Forum » Why do people... baffling behaviours » 2019-03-31 17:12:02
I plant it all the time, its essential. Its no more of a chore than other farming, because other farms also go to shit when you walk away just as often. Hence the endless berry fields, and random plants in the wrong plots. Its not unrewarding, as village labor efficiency goes up as you acquire more milkweed based tech. If I find myself already with buckets and carts, then It is not unreasonable for me to grow 10+ ropes in a life and still accomplish something else. When setting up the milkweed farm if there is none or it was destroyed, water the first crop more staggered so if someone comes by and pulls it all while youre getting more soil or water, you are likely to have at least one or two get pulled at the fruiting stage and not have to go find seeds again. *** Ive also proposed an overhaul to rope making elsewhere in the forums, but even the way it is now, in mid level and higher village, its not as hard as you're saying it is to grow some. Especially if you find some kinda distant ponds and soil, maybe on the other side of the swamp from town, then the influence of others is only a problem if someone is actively griefing your milkweed farm***
#18 Re: Main Forum » Nerf Compost » 2019-03-31 17:02:07
The only other solution to the mutton problem would be adding more foods you can cook with mutton, but we already have so many kinds of food that it feels like overkill until we get some other content updates. That doesnt solve the OP compost problem, but would at least make cooking and using all of that mutton more interesting.
#19 Re: Main Forum » Nerf Compost » 2019-03-31 16:59:08
For the love of god, don't NERF composting. Jesus.
Guess you didnt read my post because I basically called for most of those solutions aside from meat decay. "Nerf Compost" is just a bit of bait. Compost is OP currently,you will never convince me otherwise. Just from the byproducts of one cycle, you can feed one clothed person for their whole life and still have a bite or two of mutton pie left over. You cannot just straight up nerf it without breaking the game, and thats why I call for other compost cycles or a more complex one that uses the base cycle(or a nerfed version of it). If you consider shrimp, and the milkweed you need to grow for it as part of the cycle too, you can feed almost two clothed people for their whole lives from a compost cycle(it does require more than one cycle to make a net but it gets more than one use so there is going to be an average number of shrimp produced per flece from a cycle. Doing that you still have enough soil to grow many crocks of stew, more milkweed, and even a batch or two of salsa and chips. When we had fewer foods and the average yum was lower, then nerfing it would be much worse, but now we have so many food options and one cycle compost could potentially yield hundreds of extra food from all of that yum. We should be composting to farm for our food, not farming for compost to make food off just its waste products. Just like you should yum to live not live to yum.
#20 Re: Main Forum » A Griefer's Guide to Pitbulls » 2019-03-31 16:22:22
Y'all keep saying that killing towns helps eves but it doesn't. People die all the time and get born in eve camps. The problem is that they /die in eve camps far more often than in big cities. Killing more people causes more children who don't want to play in an eve camp to end up there, and if there are no other options they might play there, but will be less productive than someone who actually wants to play in an early settlement. The fact that big towns exist is proof that eve camps are not experiencing a problem so bad it requires your kind of help. Some succeed and others dont, sometimes its because it was a good spot and everyone worked together well, and others do despite poor placement and bad players. You know what really helps eves? More players in the game. You arent the developer, so unless you're out selling the gospel of OHOL, the only thing you can do to help the game and thus help the eves is not making players quit because everything they make gets ruined by you.
#21 Main Forum » Nerf Compost » 2019-03-31 15:31:20
- Anandamide
- Replies: 22
There has been lots of talk about nerfing compost, but there is basically no agreement as to why we would need to nerf it, or how you would nerf it. I just wanna talk about our options and maybe we can all agree on something. Most of these Ideas are not my own but im not gonna fill this with a bunch of citations because im not sure exactly on where I read what, so yeah.
Most of the problems boil down to there being too much mutton and all of the litter from it. We already have a bit of a solution to that, and that is feeding shorn sheep. Yes its less efficient but with how OP compost is right now, no village is going to die from feeding some shorn sheep. Now that we have shrimp this is even less of a problem. Shrimp does exacerbate the mutton problem though as there are now fewer meals containing it being eaten. Another complaint is that we get too much soil.
Reduce soil
One way we can nerf it is having it yield less soil per cycle. Alone, I think this is the worst option, as the mutton problem will get out of control. Less soil means faster cycles and more food as a waste product.
Nerf mutton
The most obvious implementation of this would be reducing the nutrition of mutton based foods. I dont like that option as mutton clearly should be a high pip food since it requires a number of "complex" tasks to produce, and basically every technology before engines. We can do something similar though without changing any of the actual food values. Instead of putting mutton straight into pies, you would put six mutton into a crock, mash it with a sharp stone, and yield four bowls of mutton filling for a pie. With no other changes, this would almost eliminate the litter problem, encourage use of more pottery, and make baking a slightly more interesting task. You could buff/nerf the other pies too in a similar way, putting the ingredients in a crock and having it yield four bowls of pie filling, the buff/nerf coming from how many ingredients you have to add. ***Unless we got four ingredient pies, using a crock, I would propose it takes three units of ingredients for four pies. So for berry pies, three bowls of berry yields four pies, carrot berry or rabbit berry or rabbit carrot would take one bowl of one and two of the other(probably two berries or two carrots), and for the triple pie just one of each ingredient.***
More complex compost
Right now we only make compost with sheep, and there is only one kind of cycle(maybe two if you consider feeding shorn sheep a different cycle). If you could make compost using other animals or even just other food/tools that all have different trade offs. Some will give you lots of food and little extra soil, while others yield almost no food and lots of soil. They could have different profiles of iron/water/soil/labor usage and what kind you use will depend on your situation and what you are optimizing for. Even just having one alternative compost cycle would get rid of a lot of the problem. *** You could even have one cycle as the base, it stands on its own, and then you could have side compost loops that cannot stand on their own, and need some kind of product from the base cycle to do their thing. ***
#22 Re: Main Forum » Why do people... baffling behaviours » 2019-03-31 14:51:22
w0wma wrote:Guppy wrote:You should actually suggest that in a seperate post, love the idea.
this!
A little more involved, I think. Maybe: heat iron rod in forge, run through Newcomen Roller to get thin iron rod. Cut thin iron rod with chisel to get a stack of short thin rods. Hit with a smiths hammer to make into a grill top; place on adobe oven base to make a grill.
Grills take kindling, and can't accept firewood. (Presumably you could use charcoal as well, but that's needed for industrial purposes.) When lit, it starts a grill fire, which dies down to a hot grill in 15 seconds. The hot grill lasts for 3 minutes (since the adobe base helps retain heat). The time is reset when foods are placed/removed, like a hot rock on coals.
I should think anything which goes directly on coals - like salt water, for example - could be placed on the grill. Tortillas and eggs could not (although... a bowl of eggs with water to make boiled eggs? hmmm). And hey, if we're gonna have a grill... we should have STEAK!
This gives us a low-tech and a high-tech option for shrimp. The quicker prep and longer cook time give the grill an advantage over a flat rock, and the ability to use the fire instead allows lower-tech villages access to the food.
The only thing id change is require charcoal and no resetting timer like a flat rock. It would take one basket of charcoal to light it, but after 2 minutes it will change from "burning grill" to "grill with hot coals", in which case you could add one unit of charcoal to keep it going. A flat rocks short timer balances out the ability to refresh it, if you go do another task for even a bit, it is likely that fire will die out. Increasing demand for charcoal isnt bad, as people will need to produce it in greater quantities, and there is always an increase in labor productivity when you do the same task for a longer period of time because there is none of the mental overhead from task switching, having all the relevant tools and locations fresh in your head, and having said tools readily accessible.
Just like people saying how stone hoes will use too much milkweed. Currently, milkweed is needed for advanced technology, but since its almost never a life or death thing, the milkweed farm is often neglected; if it was a regularly consumed item as part of the farm cycle instead of just when there is some new tech to explore or build, then people will make sure to farm more of it. I never understand why people only will plant a small patch of like 8 milkweed at a time when you have a deep well+ and/or compost. Use a whole hoe on planting milkweed. Make giant fields of it. If youre already doing the task, doubling the plot will usually take half the effort that it took to get the first half of the field going since(pulling those stats out of my ass but you get the idea regardless of the specifics).
#23 Re: Main Forum » Everything About Food (Theorycrafting Guide) » 2019-03-31 14:31:46
I'm so sad you didn't enjoy my L'Hopital joke....
I dont see it in this thread, did you forget to post? Id love a good calculus joke.
#24 Re: Main Forum » The math on Chip with Salsa » 2019-03-31 14:20:56
Also, another thing is this assumes wild seed. If you are reseeding the math gets much hairier with an infinite series. This series likely converges though so if someone feels like working it out (Ferna cough cough). Maybe we could model the farming system as a differential equation, or a system of differential equations, and then we could get a better picture of the best strategies depending on if you wanna optimize for labor/soil/water/iron and go from there.
#25 Re: Main Forum » Griefers Getting Smarter? » 2019-03-30 20:04:29
Toxic, datruff and I guess some random cameos have been doing twins and trips all day, killing many villages. So really, just dont keep multiples. If they were well intentioned, well that sucks but people ruin stuff for well intentioned people all the time and you just gotta get over it.
*** omg im sorry I was not thinking earlier. Sorry pein im not sure why you popped into my head. ***