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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 Main Forum » The hand » 2020-05-24 19:57:27

Replies: 1

The game is giving us existetial questions about meaning of live, contributing to future generations, joy of family and society, marks of the past. Here I want to share something about the last. Every time I encounter abandoned place, I start to think and feel. I don't exactly what, some curiosity mixed with melancholy.It's like homesick to places and times I've never was into. Who lived in that village? What was the meaning of all writings? Were those the teleport stones? Was leaving a lone sharp stone in the wilderness a good idea? I want to share with you an amazing video about pictures of hands. Touchy video about hands from far, far ago...

PS: remove homesick

#2 Re: Main Forum » Systems within systems » 2020-05-24 19:45:12

Can I suggest to make the thread stick always on the main side? With hyperlinks to threads describing every system? I think newbies would appreciate it. And maybe veterans, too!

#3 Re: Main Forum » Some Stories Just Aren't Possible » 2020-05-15 16:42:47

Spoonwood, how are things standing in Sparta?

#4 Re: News » Update: In Perpetuity » 2020-05-15 16:35:38

Whenever I see such updates with background mechanics I am happy I've stopped playing. Why would I learn a broken mechanism which will be altered in few weeks? Why Jason is implementing coding magic only for veterans, especially griefers? Nowadays vanilla players are unable to defend. It's a recrration of no gun zone in US schools. Great idea smile

Unless a psycho appears. I've enjoyed leason from Bobo smile

#5 Re: News » Update: In Perpetuity » 2020-05-09 23:56:03

I summon you Bobo! What is your reasoning? What can stop your killing spree? Not Jason, obviously smile

#8 Re: Main Forum » A Game of Child Abandonment » 2020-04-20 02:05:22

Conceive attempts or prevention should be included IMHO, to prevent baby spam and to help save dying settlements. It seems unfair, you are abandoning kids due to temporary famine and get no babies when you solve the food crisis. Also, baby spam makes newbies suffer the most.

Jason says it is creating funny sitiations and videos. He is right, it was fun, by the first time. You may be little angry after few situations like that

#9 Re: Main Forum » yum 2.0 » 2020-04-20 01:56:24

For punishment. With 20 available pips for adults it is just a nice bonus, just like you said. If the min was 4 (5 in fact), it would be a necessity. Flaws of current unbreakable yum:
1. Hidden bonus. Game engine must be described to understand it. yum 2.0 requires GUI feedback, so it is more intuitive.
2. As you said, it is a nice bonus. Which makes it not enough to end era of berry munchers.  yum 2.0 would punish berry munching heavily, but not only. Even the best milk drinkers would suffer from it.
3. For maximal gain from high yum you must eat at the edge of starvation. Not a case for yum 2.0
4. Describing the game engine is not immersive. yum 2.0 allows for sentence "the more food variety you eat, the stronger you will be!". Much more touchy and parenting friendly.
5. A new exploit proposition: eat a berry once, from berry bowl once, eat a popcorn, a stew and a mutton pie to receive a pernament + 5 to every next berry in your life. Berry munching will be even easier than before food nerf wink

#10 Re: Main Forum » A Game of Child Abandonment » 2020-04-20 01:16:35

Yes, the ovulation stops due to breastfeeding. Exclusive breastfeeding is in fact a better contraception than male condom.

6 days of fertile window is max 5 days of sperm and 24 hours between ovulation and egg's death.

Note I used the word "hint" for Bible source. Still, it is very intriguing they wanted to start having sex on exactly 11th day of cycle, right in the fertile window.

#11 Main Forum » yum 2.0 » 2020-04-20 00:12:02

Replies: 8

Previous mechanic was unintuitive and chain broked too easily. Currently, making yum chain unbreakable we are not punishing people for monodiet and are giving them too must boost. The solution would be to increase the amount of food pips depending on variety of eaten food, giving a buffer before monodiet punishment, and make punishment iterational instead of total reduction. Proposition:

1. Use FIFO containter (like std::deque) with len of 50. Each time you consume food, add it at the beginning and remove the last element.
2. Make a year constraint: max is 4 + x, x=each 30 seconds of life. Make cap = 40, which happens after 18 minutes.
3. Final pip number available is max(4, min(unique food number in FIFO container, year constraint)).
4. Decreasing of pips due to aging should not leave 60-years old with only 4 pips. They should also benefit from yum. Maybe cap the last year constraint at 8?

This way you will have a clear indication (GUI pips) how well nourished you are. Being on a monodiet will eventually leave you with only 4 pips. Consider it as scurvy, beriberi or any similar condition. That of course requires GUI change to hold up to 40 pips.

But, it has an advantage. If you have filled FIFO container with unique foods, eating the same thing twice will not affect your yum, because your year constraint is lower than number of unique foods in container, now 49. It is the safe buffer before yum chain starts to decrease due to monodiet. When 20 years old, the buffer is 10. When 2 years old, the buffer is crazy 46! So, it is easier to break it as an adult, than as a child.

It is making game harder: you have to eat different things to gain food pips, as aging is not enough. Default 20 from vanilla requires 16 different foods! Which should not be that hard: berry, berry bowl, carrot, cooked mutton, cooked rabbit, bread, mutton pie, berry pie, carrot pie, rabbit pie, stew, bowl of cooked beans, popcorn, egg, cooked goose, bean tortilla is already 16.

It has advantage, as people with high yum will not have to wait to almost starve to fully utilize yum bonus (cooked mutton will still fill only 10, not 10+26 as with current 26 yum someone gained lately). Also, young will start to eat sooner different things. Currently, you have to be 7 and eat mutton pie at 1 pip left to not waste it. With yum 2.0 it would be already before 4 years old (3 min 30 sec).

#12 Re: Main Forum » A Game of Child Abandonment » 2020-04-19 21:31:25

Karrots wrote:

Spoon, you do realize before modern technology irl, you couldn't really.. choose to become pregnant? You could choose to have sex with the intention of pregnancy, but whether you get pregnant or not wasn't up to you.

It is not true.
1. People were often not having sex at all to prevent pregnancy.
2. Many sexual activities do not involve penetration. Such steps are common to young people before they decide to fulll intercourse.
3. Women are fertile only for 6 days per cycle. People were using it for their advantage. The oldest record is from year 388 with St. Augustine condemning Manichaeans for periodic abstinence to avoid pregnancy. But there is also a hint in Bible from IX-V century BC, that ancient Jews could understand fertile window. They were prohibiting sex during period and for following 7 days.

Leviticus 15, 28
When a woman is cleansed of her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be clean

4. Breastfeeding stops ovulation and people knew it. That should be implemented in game.
5. The knowledge about herbs preventing pregnancy was common. You can read in "Eve's Herbs" written by John M. Riddle. Funny is, eating wild carrot seeds prevents pregnancy. Maybe also include it in game? smile
6. Some says condoms were used in prehistoric times as far as 11 000 years BC, but for sure in ancient Egypt 1350 BC
7. People were pulling-out. It is funny, because it is better than fertility awareness and almost as good (chance of pregnancy in first year: perfect use: 4%, typical: 22%) as male condoms (2%, 18%)!

All of those were not 100% efficient. Even abstinency is believed to fail at least once smile. But hey, modern methods are neither. They're just better.

Even just an option for lowering the chance for child spam would be welcomed by many players.

#13 Re: Main Forum » Food nerf » 2020-04-19 19:40:49

Morti wrote:
Glassius wrote:

You can see Joriom, me and Coconut Fruit are Polish.

How could I have see that?

Because I told you smile Just to be sure, are you from Germany?

Morti wrote:

Even if our countries were in the middle of the worst war in human history,

I look at it the different way. The Polish-German states border was the most constant for Poles. That condition changed only because of unification of Prussia with other German states, which created the interest in joining German territories at the cost of Polish coast line. The Prussia was an architect of partitions of Poland and forced also Russia and Austria to be involved in.

The end of Prussia means the end of Polish-German territorial conflict. I am educating people in my country at that subject which tells, even from geopolitic perspective, Polish and German can now be friends again and have mutual interests. Just like before Brandenburg-Prussian union.

But even if our states were in conflict, I would treat individual German with respect.

Morti wrote:

Is that one of you? Speaking? Or are you simply pointing out the moment they caught you on camera? in their (TVGRYpl) video?

No. It is a link from Coconut Fruit quote. We both get to know OHOL from that video. The guy in the video has a nick Hed and is a professional game reviewer. Many Polish people love him for self-irony and his sense of humor.

Regarding jumming: it is only for veterans. It will not make newbies life easier, because it is counter-intuitive and they simple don't know how it work. And even part veterans like pein do not like it nor utilize it.

Morti wrote:

Najlepsze z życia dla ciebie, przyjacielu.

Quite a good translation. Nobody says that way in Polish, but it is not incorrect smile

#14 Re: Main Forum » A Game of Child Abandonment » 2020-04-19 19:19:41

AmberA, simple solution: give few seconds (20 secs) ban to baby spam after breastfeeding smile

#15 Re: Main Forum » A Game of Child Abandonment » 2020-04-19 17:44:07

It is a big offtop, but you are wrong in few areas here pein.

pein wrote:

healthcare was really bad even until the middle ages, and religion prohibited the advancement of science

Healthcare was bad untill the XIX century, when the vacciness (from English Edward Jenner) and antibacteria hygiene (from Hungarian Ignaz Semmelweis) started to be used. But despite rapid progress in XIX century, antibiotics were still awaiting to by discovered by Scotch Alexander Fleming in 1928. Look at below tomb. The vaccince for diphtheria was available at those years, yet it was too expensive for most people

pein wrote:

war is generally profitable, people broke rules and science advanced, cause war provides funding for inventions

War was profitable up to industrial revolution. In 1899 Polish banker Jan Gotlib Bloch proved in the book "Is War Now Impossible?" that advanced, industrialized society cannot gain profit because of war. I world war proved he was right. II world war was possible only because of dictartoships disregarding the wealth of governed nations.

Regarding religion: there are religions stopping science, but Reform Judaism and Catholic Church were pushing science towards.

pein wrote:

poor countries got more kids, and they become even poorer because of it. Bangladesh, the  Caribbean, etc. The issue is that you can control your own population but not for others, not city wide.

It WAS true and still is in Africa, but ceased to be in the rest of the world. Before industrial revolution in XIX century, all societies were malthusianic: every food production improvement was eaten by increasing population leading eventually to all living at the edge of starvation. Such malthusianism was existing in Africa, so every food help and medical care provided by foreigners in XX century was leading to catastroply in tribal societies.

But it changed. Now also Africa is in the middle of demographic transition.

#16 Re: Main Forum » Well Tessellation is a form of protest. » 2020-04-19 17:00:47

Exploiting game flaws seems as the best bug report. Congrats testo smile The respond to my bug report about grind in clothing technology was: grind here is good.

#17 Re: Main Forum » Myths and facts about why player numbers are dropping over time » 2020-04-19 16:52:44

It is a new topic here. I was also expecting a playerbase increase during pandemia, but nothing like that happens. It seems Jason is so successfull in designing the game of one-time, unique experience, no one wants to play it again sad

#18 Re: Main Forum » What is racism? » 2020-04-13 18:20:03

Some historic background about Polish in Haiti

Haiti's first head of state Jean-Jacques Dessalines called Polish people "the White Negroes of Europe", which was then regarded a great honour, as it meant brotherhood between Poles and Haitians. Many years later François Duvalier, the president of Haiti who was known for his black nationalist and Pan-African views, used the same concept of "European white negroes" while referring to Polish people and glorifying their patriotism

Therefore Polish people have permit from first Haiti president to use the N-word. Let me use it: "I am some sort of nigga myself" smile

#19 Re: Main Forum » Food nerf » 2020-04-13 00:05:05

4 hours by car to Germany. You can see Joriom, me and Coconut Fruit are Polish. The mentioned video here:

I am not playing since magic property fence was introduced. I dislike voodoo solutions and constant nerfing/fixing the game. However, I've developed some kind of Stockholm syndrome and keep reading the forum hoping the game will move forward. I was advertising it among my friends. But now, when someone asks me about the game "you only life an hour", I say honestly the developer stucked in the cursed circle of nerfing/fixing the game with gamechanging mechanics. I worry the number of players will decrease so much by the time he will start providing content again, the game will become not playable sad

#20 Re: Main Forum » Food nerf » 2020-04-12 21:54:40

Coconut Fruit wrote:

"My first mother abandoned me without a word. I died of hunger after a few seconds after my birth.
I managed to chase my second mother in the woods for a while... she ran away, she ran away from me.
The third time I finally felt a substitute for the warmth of home's fire. And when I thought everything would somehow work out, my mother said honest and brutal words "we can't feed you all, some of you will need to leave when you grow up".
This is a survival game more difficult than life, because it strips the player of all delusions in every second of the gameplay."

That is the same video I get to know about OHOL from. I bardzo lubię Heda smile

#23 Re: Main Forum » Do most of new players give up because they can’t do anything? » 2020-04-04 21:54:30

You see it the wrong way. Jason gave in past a lot of his thoughts how to make the game a unique, one time experience to make this one particular life matter. He even considered charging a microtransaction for each spawn.

All of that is to discourage new players from the game! When veterans point all of it out, he claims he has made a most complicated solo game and still earns a lot of money thanks to it. So selling a game to people who will play it once and quit seems as a mission complited. You should rather talk how to further discourage new players from playing!

Remember veterans, too. They also need to be discouraged. It's obvious, language, tool slot, skin tone specialization and tricky toddler feeding is not enough. What can you propose new?

For me it was magic with property fences. I stopped playing there.

#25 Re: Main Forum » Some ideas for improving cooperation (inside towns and between them) » 2020-04-02 00:28:10

I suggest you all to learn the theory of comparative advantage. It describes why trade occurs in real life. It is not because certain people cannot do certain things. They could always learn to. It is because certain people have advantage in producing certain stuff over others. Most often this advantage comes from specific location. Even distribution of resources in OHOL does not encourage specialization nor trade. The latest updates made it sure everyone has the same amount of resources. For trade to occur, certain settle points must be giving huge advantage over others. Current design needs 2 updates:
1. Iron must be exlcusive. Loose iron to make initial game start, but veins must be very rare to make them valuable.
2. There must be a reason to settle around the mine. This way a settlers will be mine dependent and will protect iron from other players. Those 2 combined would allow to trade.

Just compare smithing tech tree and mining. Smithing is complicated, there is a need for kiln, forge, different wood types, few flat rocks, pottery, tools and a lot of manual work. It is a pleasant, long work to create any item. Also, the process is better with cooperation. There is no need to make a smithery far from starting village location, as that would not benefit from anything. During ingame choices the smithing is always right next to food sources, never close to iron location. And there is a reason, as loose iron does not encourage settling far from village only for shorttime boost, while mines are the spots to come, gather an leave. The solution is to make a multistep, many items dependent mining which will require to gather multiple resources near mine and work there.

Allow players to enter mine, but only with light source and pickaxe in hands (like arrow and bow). This way, upon leaving the mine they will have to relase both items, needing 2 empty tiles around them, gather iron, put pickaxe and light again to the hands to enter mine. Upon light source end up force leaving mine. If iron would not stack at mine, it would be better to work i pairs. One inside mine to dig it, the other to collect it on the ground.
Fqpvbbz.png + PvkEa4L.png = Ntbybnq.png

Also, it would be better if stanchion kit instead of a full set put on the mine would be a multistep proces done on the mine itself. This way, we do not make one trop to the mine with stanchion kit, but multiple trips with bramches, rope, bucket. It makes the mine stop a place which is worth to prepare even basic settling.

It would be also wise to make output of mine less worth. Put a random chance to gather any rock instead of iron. Or make purifing iron requiring more ore.

Upon depletion of basic mine a diesel engine would not be just enough. Provide rails, cards and build an elevator, put an engine at the end. First the player with light and pickaxe goes down, then cart. After few clicks the second player on the ground could bring cart full or iron back. That would be dangerous, as a miner cannot leave on their own even if lights go out. Just allow to drop food to the mine unless new oil is bringed to save the miner smile

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