One Hour One Life Forums

Also,

Flint chips don't block movement, and can be picked up by anyone at anytime. They should require a special tool and a notice signed by an elder and another player to move a flint chip after it's been put down. As it is now, people can walk almost anywhere!

This is clearly an oversight with the current changes

We need movement security, Jason pls fix.

Explain how that is a personal attack? Was it because I suggested he could be a lousy griefer? I'm sorry. If Keyin is a griefer, I'm sure he's at least above average, and if not then likely getting better with every life played!

Well Keyin, I didn't wasn't to write a paragraph about each thing, but clearly stacking every plate in the kitchen is griefing if plates are all spread out, because someone is likely trying to make pies if that's the case. So now they need to stop and spread them out again. In the meantime some other asshat comes and drops random things that the baker has to move before they can put the plate back down anyway. Basically, it never needs to be done in the kitchen. The stones in front of a forge NEVER need to be stacked. Period.

The annoying thing about turning boxes into carts is they can be hauled off, and now you don't even have the storage. Griefers tend to do this when the town already has more than plenty of carts. Usually they do it to pair it with using up all the tires so the pump can't be repaired when the seal tears. Boxes are usually not placed where they block movement so making them passable isn't helpful or necessary. Your counter argument is moot.

Maybe you don't know how the overfill mechanic works. I've read that you don't get any overfill if you don't get any Yum!. If you've already eaten a berry then you get no Yum! and thus no bonus. Also young children have almost no overflow either, so young berrymunchers are even more wasteful. So you are wasting food. Wasting food is griefing. Doing something that destroys 75% of another players work effort is griefing. I guess it's even worse if a 4yo eats a pie than a berry, but the point is, you can let your hunger bar go down more so you aren't wasting food and don't eat only berries so you aren't wasting Yum! bonus.

Ghost costumes are great. Put them on your own kids ya jerks! If someone is trying to dress their own child, they can't see if they still need any other clothing if the kid has a ghost costume on. It's annoying, and being a pest, and wastes others time. That's intentionally trying to make other's play time less enjoyable. That's griefing, even if it's very minor. Usually people who do this kind of thing do a whole series of, "I'm the only person who matters", kind of annoying things, like also try to name other's kids all the same thing. I consider this a gateway to more serious griefing.

Your counter about chopping trees only highlights why it's griefing. It's hunger work. How can you personally eat up all the towns food supply better than if you do unneeded hunger work? Also, destroying all the town axes so they can't make kindling, thus can't make more axes at a forge or make more food at an oven. This is one of the MOST effective ways to sabotage a town without anyone even noticing.

Backpacks are not upgraded baskets. Some of the things most important to use baskets on (soil mainly) can't be done with a backpack. Backpacks also can't be stacked. You have rarely seen a town that more than 2 or 3 backpacks were being used for storage. Usually it's shoes and a loincloth for the next kid to wear that backpack. So if the town has over 30, then they still have at least 10 sitting around empty. No reason to make more, so still wasting materials, and still eating up valuable ground space. That's still griefing. Honestly, if a town has that many backpacks, they really shouldn't have so many rabbit hunters and should have more sheep ranchers anyway.....

Yea, sometimes you get eaten by a wolf.... but why did you need 4 full pies? And did you really have to seek out a snow biome to die in? No, what is happening there is that someone is purposefully attempting to leave a future life a squirrel stash. The problem is they may not come back for this little stash for days, or likely never if they forget about it. All that time they deny the use of those items to others. It's selfish and wasteful, and that's a low level form of griefing too.

I'm hoping that the fact that you couldn't understand how these things are used to grief means that you are not a griefer, and not that you actually are a lousy griefer that I helped get better

Well since Spoonwood necro'ed this thread.....what what, it was Johtolink? GTFO!

Anyway, I'll again say that my stance isn't that griefers simply existing is a problem. It's that their are too many ways that the creative ones can grief doing things SOLO that take short amounts of time, but take those trying to stop it MULTIPLE people significantly more time. This over amplifies the griefers power and their joy. More and more people start to grief than normally would because they can actually have fun. Their work is only interrupted by their own success (I guess I have to stop trying to destroy this town, because now there's nobody left thanks to me!), whereas a non-griefer frequently has to stop what they are doing on account of the griefer. It isn't fun and is very frustrating to constantly have to stop what you are doing. The level of frustration only eggs the griefer on.

It's hard and ineffective to organize others, even more so as griefers have the same tools at hand. I've seen them often work in teams and one will try to counter organize people, spread lies, vouch for a griefer, or turn a town against someone acting as a guard. Which by the way, It doesn't seem like anyone enjoys being a guard. You waste a whole life trying to watch others. People will likely give you shit for "not working". It's honestly no fun to just stand around monitoring people. If you call someone out for griefing, most of the town usually won't do anything (because there isn't much they can do anyway, right?), and if you kill the griefer, someone will probably kill you for it. If you carry around a bow and arrow as a guard, a murderer just might try to kill you first. You give yourself away as someone who's watching at least. Sure this might make a griefer move elsewhere, but often they just are careful to do their trouble away from you or do more low key things. It doesn't stop them, just might change they way they grief, so guards aren't very effective anyway.

Besides, a town usually needs so much done to keep it going (even more as constant energy is spent countering griefer efforts), players have little time for "leisure activities" such as organizing a town guard duty, or a political structure to maintain order, or even stopping long enough to keep an eye out for bad behavior. Helpful activities can take sooooooo long, how the heck am I supposed to take time to help stop griefing when it takes an entire lifetime (usually longer) just to make one oil pump, or a single engine?

I've heard thast Jason said every town should have a griefer. OK, I'll accept that. But how often? One per day? I could live with that. two or three? Ehh, not thrilled about that many but I could tolerate it I suppose. As it is now? It appears to be multiple every hour. A large bell town will see about 50 griefer lives making multiple griefing attempts per life, every singe day, and I believe that even could be a low estimation. That doesn't even count all the noobs doing unhelpful things just because they don't know better.

The balance currently is out of wack. I don't know how bad it was a year ago, I didn't play then. In the time I have played, it seems to only have gotten worse. Maybe that's because the last Steam sale attracted a lot of players that quickly got bored and turned into griefers. IDK. Unfortunately it's a snowball effect. The more people grief, the less fun others have. The less fun others have, the more likely they are to start griefing, or just quit, thus changing the griefer to non-griefer ratio in favor or more griefers.

Jason needs to do some drastic things to either 1) Make the creating tasks more enjoyable and rewarding 2) Make doing helpful things faster and easier, so we have more time to talk, organize, and fight griefing 3) Make griefing far less enjoyable and the risks of being caught griefing far more severe. 4) Preferable a little of all the above.

Well the main road would be AT LEAST 1k longer and more connected if I hadn't quit. You are going so see far less road when the game's primary road builder (most likely) stops building road.

The game is open source. You can find copies of it for free easily. It's also free to play the modded "Two Hours, One Life" game that some other people run. It has to be free because Jason has retained the rights to profit off the game. You can do anything you want with his code, just so long as you don't use it to make money.

So when you "buy" the game, what you really are buying is the right to use Jason's servers. He can't really kick people off, because he sold them the right to play on his server.

BUT

He could change his terms of service. He does not sell a monthly service, you get a lifetime of play on the servers (as long as they exist), but that lifetime of use could come with short term bans if the community at large curses you enough times. Say you get 30 curses (just a randomly selected number), you lose a day of play for each curse over 30. So, if you are at 30 already and kill someone and get 3 more curses, then you just earned yourself a 3 day time out.

Jason isn't banning you, your fellow gamers are. If you don't like those terms, then don't buy the game from Jason. That would be easy enough. And for people that already have the game, I bet somewhere it said terms and conditions may change. And if he didn't include that disclaimer somewhere, he could just offer people a refund if they send a written letter within 30 days to some PO box, etc etc. He might have to give one person their money back at the MOST.

ALSO

He could make the main server a GRIEFING DISCOURAGED server. If you get too many curses, you just get sent to any one of the other MANY servers. He's still letting you play on his server. No breach of contract, and again, it's would be disclosed in the server rules. Don't like it? Again, don't buy game from him.

I could go on. There are so many easy options he could do. It's very, very disappointing he doesn't do any of them.

And I'm really not entirely against anti social play styles. A little PvP essentially does add some spice to the game. Back in the day when I played MMORPGs I always chose a PvP server. The difference with that though was everyone was pretty much on a level playing field. There were also typically some areas that you could go and be safe if you just wanted to craft and be left alone for a little bit. Most importantly, the same dude would always have the same character. Once the people on your "team" got to know that a rogue named "knightkrawler" was running around killing people, then you knew. If you saw that dude coming around you would know to run, or get ready to fight, or call for backup, etc. In OHOL, the anti-social players have a new name and a new face every 60 minutes. They can completely hide behind that anonymity. In a typical MMORPG there is a cap on the worst things players can do. They can kill you, maybe steal a non-bound item, and sometimes do annoying stuff like kill-stealing or killing quest giving NPCs. That's about all. It was annoying at worst. OHOL has virtually zero restrictions or limitations on being a destructive player.

In OHOL, a griefer can kill your entire family tree. They can sever the lifeblood of an entire town. They can do things to wreck work others took an hour to do, and it only takes them a few minutes to do that. They can steal all of a towns stuff. They can slaughter all the sheep, cutting off ability to compost. If clever, than can easily kill 10+ people per hour without even getting caught (that can easily destroy a town). They can just walk bears into town. They can permanently destroy gooseponds or wild berry bushes. Now with waystones they can start blocking off every oil location they find. They can lie traps that kill over and over that they don't even have to be online to continue griefing. And they can do all this shit faster than the regular population can counter what they are doing.

If this was a game where the point was just to run around and try to kill the other guy before he kills you, then that would be fine. If I wanted to play that game though I'd be playing Fortnite. Why do the girefers in OHOL not just go play that kind of game then? Easy, they don't want to be on a level playing field. They don't want to play a game where they kill one person and then one guy kills them. They want to kill 10 people and never get killed. They want to fight against other players that don't even realize they are in a fight. They don't have the skills to be good at Fortnite or games like that. Jason has set up OHOL so that low skill PvP gamers can come here and feel like they dominate artificially. There aren't many other games where they can get that, because as we've noted, most games take actions to stop such behavior.

Again, I don't have a problem with some griefing per se. The problem is that the balance is currently tipped in the wrong direction in favor of the anti-social player. I honestly feel misled and tricked into buying this game. It was sold to me as a civilization rebuilding, survival, family raising simulator. What it really feels like it's become is a griefing and harassment run amok simulator. Why did I start building roads? Because I literally can not even have a single life in a town where at least one person doesn't show up and try to destroy it all. That happening only once per hour is rare as shit, it typically is happening every 10 minutes. Honestly, I feel a little embarrassed for how pathetic of gamers MOST of these guys are. If a majority of them had any skills they could burn everything down without breaking a sweat, so I guess we can be glad for that at least. If Jason thinks he's doing a social experiment then it's inherently flawed. What's his demographic? He doesn't have a representative cross section of society. What's he aiming to prove? That teenage males are mostly asshats? Breaking news, I think the scientific community has already come to a consensus on that information.

I agree, but I'd run on a laptop just because it seems so much easier to hop back and forth. IDK tho....

I have birthed twins a couple times that clearly were cycling on one computer. It was hilarious that when I asked, they claimed they were not. I was like, Oh come on! Neither of you ever move or talk at the same time and there is always like a 4-5 second pause between one stopping and then the other starting. The last time this happened I ran around and grabbed all weapons in town, put them in a cart and in backpacks in the cart and then stood there holding the cart. As soon as they realized I had done this, one of the two ran over and got mauled by a wolf and the other just stood there until they starved (already had a low bar I guess because it didn't take much longer). Obviously their goal was murdering.

First I DON'T have a problem with spawning an Eve being a rare occurrence. I know Jason has said new Eve's should not spawn that often, so ya know, it's not like you've been misled on that one. I still feel like Eve's are moving westward too quickly, even though it's not as bad as before Jason fixed the Eve spawing bug.

But what does bother me is that when you are an Eve, you can expect your family to die out in about 7 generations. A lucky few (emphasis on FEW) will get to see their descendants last for a whole 24 hours! So who cares about being an Eve if your name certainly won't endure very long? And literally any life born as a female you can have virtually the exact same Eve experience anyway by just running out to nowhere and starting your own camp from nothing, so why does it matter if you are named "Eve" when you do that, vs. any other name? The tool slots aren't a problem if your genetic score doesn't suck. Something big changed from the days when the top clan lasted, what, 288 generations?! I've watched family lines pretty closely since I've been playing and I don't think I've seen a single family go past 100 generations. That isn't even remotely close to the record. I can't say I've seen any family exist longer than 48 hours. Every time I go to sleep or go to work, it's all new names when I next log in.

The last time I was an Eve I actually saw a birth boom to my family. By the third generation there were 26 players in my family with about 80 people on the server. Not bad! I took a break to get some food. I came back and have the luck to be born as the last surviving female of my family (Had two kids, both female. One ran directly into a wolf at age 11, the other starved around 26 or so without having any kids). I lived to 60, and got to watch some griefer murder my younger sister at about age 36, and her only daughter. He didn't even try to kill me because I had already hit age 40. I killed the griefer but it was too late. When I died all that was left where the two yokel males who stood around with their cocks in their hands when the griefer slaughtered the last two fertile females of my clan (He didn't try to kill them either). It was an intentional act done just to wipe the clan out. We lasted exactly 7 generations. In a span of 4 generations we went from 26 players to 8. As I died some new family that didn't even exist when I came in as an Eve has a whopping 36 members, and there were 10, yes TEN different families going.

How does one family get nearly 50% of the population when it should have more like 10%. The second place family for members had 22 as I recall. That's ~58 players out of just shy of 90 total in only two clans!?! ( I think total pop. was around 88 at that point). I wasn't even the worst off as my family went. there were a few families that total count said 3 or 4, so they were likely on the edge of extinction too.

Why the hell did 10 different families happen? When I went for food I think there were 6 total. As far as I'm aware the server population floated around the 80-90 mark. WTF happened over less than 90 minutes that required at least 4 more Eve's to spawn? Even when my family saw it's own population boom at no point did I feel like I was having more kids than I could handle, thus requiring more Eve's to alleviate the strain. At one point did literally half the server population all die at nearly the exact same time? Who knows?!

So yea, it seems like there is something screwy with Jason's code. In a different life I've been literally the only and last ginger in a town and I went MY ENTIRE LIFE and only had ONE kid, who came at like age 14.1, was a male anyway. and he did /DIE after about 5 seconds. 26 more years passed and nothing. I eventually died of old age leaving the town with no gingers, and thus screwed. Meanwhile other mothers in town (mostly Black) were having kids left and right. Saw around 30 or so babies born to other mothers in the nursery. It makes no sense.

The only good reason i can see for this  would be as a deterrent to people excessively using /die. You have 24 lives, get down below 12 or whatever and there is a chance you'll get some disability. At only 1 life out of 24 there would be 100% chance born disabled.

If this is added only to make the game harder without any corrective or positive think connected, I think we can do without. I really have no need to add a Russian roulette "what game am I even playing this time" aspect to the game.

If you want to make the game harder for you, think of your own creative ways to do that on your own. Feel free to play the game at home with one arm tied behind your back, or tape a piece of wax paper over your screen. Maybe turn the sound off. Better yet, everytime someone murders you in game, just slam your face into a wall. Mmmmmm'kay?

Towns can die because one guy can easily murder one or two young females when server population is low. I've seen that happen quite a few times. A guy will literally lurk around town chatting and appearing innocuous until he sees a female age up, and then he will stab the fertile female, and before people can figure out what happened he will get the other. If their goal is to kill a town, they usually are crafty and bide their time.

So lets be realistic. Jason isn't going to remove murder from the game ever. It's highly unlikely from what I've seen that he will scrap racial differences entirely. He wants us to be forced to overcome this difficulty he has imposed. If we can't do that then he wants the towns to die.

Do you disagree with that statement?

So, that being what it is, the sensible position to take is that the challenge he has put forth is a bit too much and is having a detrimental effect on the overall fun and play-ability of the game. That maybe less hard of a line between what each race can or can't do would add some fun challenge to the game but without ruining certain aspects entirely.

My suggestions still mean a town needs to be diverse to survive or actively run trade route to other towns to get what they need. The difference is, if they lose all their Gingers, or Browns or whatever, then there should be a buffer time they have to get new ones. It buys a town a little more time to attract replacements. The death of a town won't happen so instantly as it currently does.

So what do you think might happen? Given that Jason has said he doesn't expect or even think towns should last forever, that he will agree with Carrot and you essentially asking him to go back to making it simple for a town to survive "forever" or me asking him to make it just a little less hard?

I personally hope Jason just removes the waystones. They are currently the #1 tool in the griefer bag of tricks, and honestly they provide little real value to make up for the trouble they are being used for. So many ways they could be fixed. They could not block movement. They could not be allowed to be placed adjacent to each other. Either one of these no-brainer things would drastically reduce the ability to misuse them.

Honestly though I believe jcwilk hit the nail on the head. Jason likes the griefing and doesn't want to solve it. He isn't trying to make a fun game. This is some kind of social experiment for him. And to be honest, an element of that I'm OK with. But with these waystones I quit, and I don't plan on coming back until the next apocalypse. How long I stay then will depend of if he corrects the balance between the builders vs griefers.

It seems Jason thinks it's balanced because there are maybe 10 builders for every one griefer, so it's OK for griefers to have 10x more power to destroy. I disagree. Since I started playing I've only seen griefers get more help and little to counter them with. I haven't heard of anyone getting sent to this fabled "donkey town" since the rifts. With players spread out over 7k tiles, is it even possible to not have a place to spawn? You'd have to have been cursed by a majority of players, and even if everyone cursed you, just a couple dudes working together on Discord can overcome that by being a mother to each other. Shit, one could just buy a second account for their laptop and be their own mother. $20 or less to completely beat the system and laugh your ass off everytime someone curses you? PRICELESS

IMHO the game crossed over to the "broken" stage now. Too many things can be used not as intended. I hope much of this gets cleaned up. Until then, there's plenty of Frostpunk to play. After that, Borderlands is looking pretty good. Games that are actually just fun, what a concept!

Someone not long ago described OHOL as "Nintendo Hard" which Jason disagreed with. I think they were completely right about that though. Not because OHOL is actually "hard", but it has built in this kind of Japanese way of thinking, that something that gives you joy is enhanced if contrasted against something that gives you pain. The "highs" seem higher if you got there by way of a series of "lows". If you have to fall off a ledge 20 times before you finally manage to make it across, suddenly the simple act of walking across a ledge seems like fun. I understand this is true for most humans. I honestly think it has a smaller effect on me than most people. To me I think "all that work and all I did was walk across a ledge. That shouldn't be that hard. That still wasn't fun." I don't play Nintendo type games.

So the same is true in OHOL. I spend half of a life just trying to move a few little blocks just so other people can use a simple pump that shouldn't have been allowed to be blocked in the first place. It doesn't feel fun just because it was hard to do. In the end I just think, "This game makes it take half a damn hour to do nothing but move two stupid blocks. Having to move the damn block in the first place is stupid. That isn't fun." I don't care how hard Jason makes it to do something mundane. To me, it will always feel mundane, and never feels like an accomplishment. It feels like a colossal waste of time.

I know where the roads go. I build most of the long road that ends in the snow. That's about when I spent every life wasting half of it running back from 4k away and got tired.

There is plenty to coordinate. Mainly, that we focus on a main road that goes east to west and stick to it. It's too hard for one person to keep up with how fast eve's move westward. Two might be able to do it though. It's frivolous to make the road cut south or north sharply for a few reasons. 1) It's moving the road further out of the eve spawn zone, so it's only less likely to lead to future towns 2) If you cut south sharply for one town, you are neglecting another town to the north. It's better to have side roads go directly to the town, and keep the main road straight as possible. You only would need to lay about 20 stones of a side road. If the village is going to survive, they will finish it. 3) Diagonal roads are harder to get started auto traveling on.

And for coordination, one of the reasons that road I made goes for so long and so flat is because I didn't just start throwing down stones. First I build north/south roads between the three main towns that popped up after the apocalypse. I build west going out of the center town because I figured that was close to X=0. Then I scouted way ahead. If the road edges north or south around things like rabbit holes or caves, I'd go one way or the other to direct the road to a passage to avoid snow, desert, or jungle whenever possible. I mean I looked ahead like a full kilometer and made a rough map on graph paper. I also move the road a little one way or the the other if a large town was within 30 tiles or so of where I was headed, and it wouldn't cause road to run into a biome. I also ran ahead of the road a good 200 tiles to chop trees and dig stones and clear a path. I'd move the wood so the stumps would decay. The end result is a nice road that people want to use and travel on. Nobody likes snakelike roads that wind and zig all over or jump around every tree or indigo plant. If given a choice, I always kept the road near a wild berry bush so travelers would always have food along the way. I'd never dig up a berry bush!

All this would be impossible if anyone had been really working on advancing the same road without coordination. I know others filled in unconnected spaces behind me, but nobody was moving the road forward but me until I quit. MEANWHILE somebody made some other roads that ran parallel to my main road that weren't really useful. One connected to a town that pretty much died as soon as the road finally connected. Then progress stopped. I saw signs of short partial roads that tried to get started north of my road. They never got connected or were useful. Wouldn't it be nice if those efforts had been directed to one road so it actually reached all the way out west before doing lesser needed side projects? Your efforts making a diagonal continuation going deeper into snow biome seem like exactly what I'm talking about because it doesn't sound like you looked way ahead like I had been doing and consider the options. A little talking would go a long way to make a project like a road go better with less wasted efforts. If I scout ahead, I can share that info with you, so you don't have to scout, or vice versa. If you know where a town is ahead that's doing well, we can discuss what we want to do about that. Maybe one person can jump ahead and start a road coming back the other way and we will have a decided spot where the roads will connect. Things like that need to be discussed at least briefly. A voice chat would be the quickest and easiest way. We could message back and forth too, but I'd rather Discord if we can. Anyway, I check every day to see if an apocalypse happened. Until then, it's just looking towards the future. Next round I'd like to do a better job and I think together we can do that.