Hog Traps

Cantface · 2019-12-28 01:10:58

Banning someone from a game that they purchased is something that some big MMO/Online type games do for cheating but I don't think bans will be a thing here. Whoever said OHOL is a social experiment may be right to be honest.

Toxolotl · 2019-12-28 02:28:11

Trust jcwilk.

He's an ace griefer as griefers go.

True vets could burn this game to the ground if they wanted to though just saying.

Its sad but the truth. Why do they hold back? Pretty sure i know why but you'd have to ask them.

Punkypal · 2019-12-28 07:09:35

Cantface wrote:

Banning someone from a game that they purchased is something that some big MMO/Online type games do for cheating but I don't think bans will be a thing here. Whoever said OHOL is a social experiment may be right to be honest.

The game is open source. You can find copies of it for free easily. It's also free to play the modded "Two Hours, One Life" game that some other people run. It has to be free because Jason has retained the rights to profit off the game. You can do anything you want with his code, just so long as you don't use it to make money.

So when you "buy" the game, what you really are buying is the right to use Jason's servers. He can't really kick people off, because he sold them the right to play on his server.

BUT

He could change his terms of service. He does not sell a monthly service, you get a lifetime of play on the servers (as long as they exist), but that lifetime of use could come with short term bans if the community at large curses you enough times. Say you get 30 curses (just a randomly selected number), you lose a day of play for each curse over 30. So, if you are at 30 already and kill someone and get 3 more curses, then you just earned yourself a 3 day time out.

Jason isn't banning you, your fellow gamers are. If you don't like those terms, then don't buy the game from Jason. That would be easy enough. And for people that already have the game, I bet somewhere it said terms and conditions may change. And if he didn't include that disclaimer somewhere, he could just offer people a refund if they send a written letter within 30 days to some PO box, etc etc. He might have to give one person their money back at the MOST.

ALSO

He could make the main server a GRIEFING DISCOURAGED server. If you get too many curses, you just get sent to any one of the other MANY servers. He's still letting you play on his server. No breach of contract, and again, it's would be disclosed in the server rules. Don't like it? Again, don't buy game from him.

I could go on. There are so many easy options he could do. It's very, very disappointing he doesn't do any of them.

And I'm really not entirely against anti social play styles. A little PvP essentially does add some spice to the game. Back in the day when I played MMORPGs I always chose a PvP server. The difference with that though was everyone was pretty much on a level playing field. There were also typically some areas that you could go and be safe if you just wanted to craft and be left alone for a little bit. Most importantly, the same dude would always have the same character. Once the people on your "team" got to know that a rogue named "knightkrawler" was running around killing people, then you knew. If you saw that dude coming around you would know to run, or get ready to fight, or call for backup, etc. In OHOL, the anti-social players have a new name and a new face every 60 minutes. They can completely hide behind that anonymity. In a typical MMORPG there is a cap on the worst things players can do. They can kill you, maybe steal a non-bound item, and sometimes do annoying stuff like kill-stealing or killing quest giving NPCs. That's about all. It was annoying at worst. OHOL has virtually zero restrictions or limitations on being a destructive player.

In OHOL, a griefer can kill your entire family tree. They can sever the lifeblood of an entire town. They can do things to wreck work others took an hour to do, and it only takes them a few minutes to do that. They can steal all of a towns stuff. They can slaughter all the sheep, cutting off ability to compost. If clever, than can easily kill 10+ people per hour without even getting caught (that can easily destroy a town). They can just walk bears into town. They can permanently destroy gooseponds or wild berry bushes. Now with waystones they can start blocking off every oil location they find. They can lie traps that kill over and over that they don't even have to be online to continue griefing. And they can do all this shit faster than the regular population can counter what they are doing.

If this was a game where the point was just to run around and try to kill the other guy before he kills you, then that would be fine. If I wanted to play that game though I'd be playing Fortnite. Why do the girefers in OHOL not just go play that kind of game then? Easy, they don't want to be on a level playing field. They don't want to play a game where they kill one person and then one guy kills them. They want to kill 10 people and never get killed. They want to fight against other players that don't even realize they are in a fight. They don't have the skills to be good at Fortnite or games like that. Jason has set up OHOL so that low skill PvP gamers can come here and feel like they dominate artificially. There aren't many other games where they can get that, because as we've noted, most games take actions to stop such behavior.

Again, I don't have a problem with some griefing per se. The problem is that the balance is currently tipped in the wrong direction in favor of the anti-social player. I honestly feel misled and tricked into buying this game. It was sold to me as a civilization rebuilding, survival, family raising simulator. What it really feels like it's become is a griefing and harassment run amok simulator. Why did I start building roads? Because I literally can not even have a single life in a town where at least one person doesn't show up and try to destroy it all. That happening only once per hour is rare as shit, it typically is happening every 10 minutes. Honestly, I feel a little embarrassed for how pathetic of gamers MOST of these guys are. If a majority of them had any skills they could burn everything down without breaking a sweat, so I guess we can be glad for that at least. If Jason thinks he's doing a social experiment then it's inherently flawed. What's his demographic? He doesn't have a representative cross section of society. What's he aiming to prove? That teenage males are mostly asshats? Breaking news, I think the scientific community has already come to a consensus on that information.

Last edited by Punkypal (2019-12-28 07:23:28)

ollj · 2019-12-28 09:28:30

Toxolotl wrote:

Trust jcwilk.
He's an ace griefer as griefers go.
True vets could burn this game to the ground if they wanted to though just saying.
Its sad but the truth. Why do they hold back? Pretty sure i know why but you'd have to ask them.

---

its pretty much a playground, and the final answer to anything is often more bears.

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i once killed almost all goose in the rift, when they were the only source for arrows, so it was very hard to make/get any arrow in the rift, also all arrows that i found where put in an animal and then skinned before the arrow is put out, this removed the arrow from the game. often removed 6 arrows per hour from the game. because arrows kill bears and people that are on sword-frenzies.

all these issues where adressed and bug reported, and the rift was gone for a while and all was much better.

---

before that (even pre-rift) , i ruined 2 cities very slowly, by chopping ALL straight-branch-trees in a 300 tile radius around the city. it didnt destroy the city (as there usually were stome of those trees left over in the city center, just not enough of them) , but it slowed down its development, it causes lower populations and earlier abandonment.

this was mimiced by others in later rift days, chopping down all the trees, while i prefered my arrow and bear game over this slow lumberjacking endeavor.

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Last edited by ollj (2019-12-28 09:30:20)

testo · 2019-12-28 11:01:08

It´s not that hard to take advantage of anonymity and broken mechanics like the /die command and specialization. Add the fact that the average player doesn´t even know how to make a fire and you get a freeway to hide buckets, carts, overeat, kill horses, trap people... And those are just the most obvious.

Cantface · 2019-12-28 14:37:34

I think some veterans still try here and there to help but on the other hand some veterans turned to griefing when we had apocalypse, rift and now we have biome specialty/tool slots that may have caused a similar reaction. I don't blame them, as apocalypse griefing proved a point and forced things to change, this waystone grief is probably done by vets that know they can block shit with it, to prove that not having them be an object you can move through is dumb. It's annoying to have to remove them (like twisted did in his latest video near the end) one by one and you need two people like most other anti-grief actions. Just make it so people can move through them! It's a bloody no brainer.

I agree with you Punky, if Dev wanted he could make things harder for griefers but he's also said griefing is a part of the game. Whoever suggested cages, shackles, stocks etc has a brilliant idea and if the Dev won't put in preventive measures outside the game, then they should be inside.

Last edited by Cantface (2019-12-28 14:44:41)

Villas · 2019-12-28 14:57:25

I play the game for a year now and for sure the griefers has waay less power than before.

Of course there are guys like ollj who griefes giving the excuse it will actually help the game, like chopping all trees to make them hungrywork, killing all geese to make them not the only source of feathers, luring bears to make the caves non-respawnable, blocking things with waystones and making hog traps so Jason can fix whatever they want.
It’s like shot a bunch of people in real life, so the police will ban the guns, or put fire on the Amazon Rain Forest so people will fight harder against it. Makes a lot of sense (Nop.)

We can’t get rid of griefers like them. But before it was worse. They could shot people immediately without the GASP thing, standing behind a tree; lock things using instantly unremovable objects, without the need of waiting 10 hours to become unremovable; literally kill 10+ people in five minutes using 2 war swords; chop all nearby trees so we couldn’t make fire; Luring dozens of bears, since the bear caves spawned a bear every 10 hours; Killed all geese nearby, so making an arrow was extremely hard; whatnot.

Nowadays all of those are fixed, the griefers have to be more and more creative to actually grief, like that crazy hog trap, compared to 1 year ago, we are catching griefers more often. I’m not working this week, so I played a lot, I saw griefers in 1/5 of my lives and 90% of them were caught and cursed. I could work on roads for hours without been interrupted by griefers, they usually wander around big towns and even then if two people aim the griefer, they will run like The Flash and catch him, like I did twice.

The game is improving a lot and becoming less griefable. If the griefer was smart before, we could never catch them, like Toxic, a player who killed lineages using a knife and killing people who were alone (since there wasn’t the GASP thing, and we didn’t even need to press shift, a simple left click was enough to stab someone pre-rift), I hope next year it will be even harder to grief, for sure Jason either will make the waystones non-blocking or removable with shovel while not ancient, like stone walls with mining pick.

Keyin · 2019-12-28 23:09:20

jcwilk wrote:

It's important to keep in mind that the game is more than just a sandbox, it's also a functional complex game which means that things like waystones actually have a purpose (an information/navigation hub which outlives everyone involved in its creation) and making them easy to destroy would compromise that purpose. Making them non-blocking (mostly) solves the griefing issue without compromising the utility. They probably also ought to be a lot more difficult to create since something that lasts a long time ought to be quite difficult to make.

Of course it would compromise their purpose. But if you want the way-stone to exist and I don't, and you died 10,000 years ago I think my wants should matter more. Yes, I am fine with something being very difficult to break as long as it is very very difficult to make it. The problem in OHOL is this often isn't the case.

Ex: I can make a stone building in one life, destroying it I must eat a lot for hungry work, but as soon as I finish destroying it someone comes along and simply puts the remains on the building back in the same exact spot in less than 5 mins without building any tools or anything.

Better example would be a list of all the indestructible items in game (as they are infinitely more difficult to destroy than make)

But yes I do agree way-stones needs to be WAY tougher to make, as I see people making them for trivial things that wont be relevant in 100 years/minutes.

Villas · 2019-12-29 00:16:46

Keyin wrote:

Ex: I can make a stone building in one life, destroying it I must eat a lot for hungry work, but as soon as I finish destroying it someone comes along and simply puts the remains on the building back in the same exact spot in less than 5 mins without building any tools or anything.

Or you can just put the remains in a horse cart and put far away, destroying hours of work in 10 minutes.

Waystones are harder to make than wall stones, but they are equally permanent. Although stone walls were never a problem, since they are easily removable while waystones require a huge effort and luck. To fix it, waystones should be removable using shovels while they aren’t ancient.

Keyin · 2019-12-29 00:22:54

Villas wrote:

Or you can just put the remains in a horse cart and put far away, destroying hours of work in 10 minutes.
Waystones are harder to make than wall stones, but they are equally permanent. Although stone walls were never a problem, since they are easily removable while waystones require a huge effort and luck. To fix it, waystones should be removable using shovels while they aren’t ancient.

Way-stones are about only slightly harder to make as walls and are significantly more permanent due to requiring two to remove. Also, horse carting things off doesn't guarantee the items are destroyed, especially with just 5 min out and 5 min back of riding.

Last edited by Keyin (2019-12-29 00:25:51)

ollj · 2019-12-29 04:12:26

this is dumb.
traveling on roads, you look out for wolf and bear anyways. your "trap" is screaming "look at me, i am a trap!"

Villas · 2019-12-29 17:52:30

Keyin wrote:

Way-stones are about only slightly harder to make as walls and are significantly more permanent due to requiring two to remove. Also, horse carting things off doesn't guarantee the items are destroyed, especially with just 5 min out and 5 min back of riding.

Nah, 5 min riding is more than 1000 tiles away, I doubt someone will find it and even if they find, it would be easier to make new cut stones than looking for stones in many directions in a 1000 tiles radius.
I mean, 10 minutes with a horse cart is enough to spread all the cut stones in many directions behind trees far away from town, for sure I would dig new stones in a close mountain biome and put them in a horse cart, instead of looking my entire life for hidden stones in all directions.

Even destroying and hiding wall stones being that easy, I don't see griefers doing that. So I think they wouldn't do that with waystones, and even if they do, we just need need a shovel, chisel, mallet and map, 2 minutes is enough to make a new waystone if you have the tools.

EDIT: In five minutes going straight in a direction, you ride approximately 2200 tiles.

Last edited by Villas (2019-12-29 18:11:12)

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-12-28 01:10:58

Re: Hog Traps

#27 2019-12-28 02:28:11

Re: Hog Traps

#28 2019-12-28 07:09:35

Re: Hog Traps

#29 2019-12-28 09:28:30

Re: Hog Traps

#30 2019-12-28 11:01:08

Re: Hog Traps

#31 2019-12-28 14:37:34

Re: Hog Traps

#32 2019-12-28 14:57:25

Re: Hog Traps

#33 2019-12-28 23:09:20

Re: Hog Traps

#34 2019-12-29 00:16:46

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#35 2019-12-29 00:22:54

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#36 2019-12-29 04:12:26

Re: Hog Traps

#37 2019-12-29 17:52:30

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