Waystone Greifing

Lava · 2019-12-25 12:41:50

Tried to find oil, turns out that every single one within a 500 radius was Waystone blocked. They are blocking serious resources that a village needs to survive. I also saw common wells be blocked by these waystones. Worse thing is only a Ginger elder and a ginger adult can take it down in a very limited time period. This is a serious problem, let ancient waystones be removable or able to walk through.

Last edited by Lava (2019-12-25 12:48:10)

fug · 2019-12-25 12:48:36

Yes, it turns out making something easy to set up but annoying to take down leads to people letting things go ancient. Who would have thought? Any time I've played I've only seen the things used for arr-pee or griefing instead of the intended use.

It's posted to github to either make it so they don't block movement (thus rendering them useless except for griefing tiles such as in front of kilns) or made easier to rip down. In fact, I don't think any ancient structure should be permanent.

Walls should be removable either way because people are bad at planning.
Bell tower bases should be able to be ripped up with an elder notice + extra timing. (if it's complete then I don't really see the need to rip it apart vs stages.)
And way stones can get bent. They're too easy to set up and too annoying to take down.

Keyin · 2019-12-25 12:50:03

Lava wrote:

let ancient waystones be removable

Yes please. Ancient walls too while you're at it.

StrongForce · 2019-12-25 13:13:26

Waystones should behave just like stonewalls.
Imo ancient stonewalls are right to be unremovable.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-25 13:16:13

I've seen waystones used to point to towns on the low pop server I usually play on.

That said, of course, griefers using them destructively is much more of a concern, and I don't anticipate why low pop players would move waystones around if they could do so easily.

I agree with fug about immovable structures.

Adobe walls also requiring water to destroy could be problematic for wells via springs, since all local ponds can theoretically get drained without them being able to get dug up into wells. The water system is too fragile to griefing.

fug · 2019-12-25 13:17:58

Spoonwood wrote:

I've seen waystones used to point to towns on the low pop server I usually play on.
That said, of course, griefers using them destructively is much more of a concern, and I don't anticipate why low pop players would move waystones around if they could do so easily.
I agree with fug about immovable structures.
Adobe walls also requiring water to destroy could be problematic for wells via springs, since all local ponds can theoretically get drained without them being able to get dug up into wells. The water system is too fragile to griefing.

Adobe requiring water is a thing because otherwise people would smash adobe walls like stone which would then require more adobe to fix. There's no problem with adobe requiring water (minus the fact you can drain ponds by spamming water on an adobe wall, same with wells and everything else.)

Lava · 2019-12-25 14:20:48

StrongForce wrote:

Waystones should behave just like stonewalls.
Imo ancient stonewalls are right to be unremovable.

So they should be able to be used to greif? ok. Or are you saying they should be able to be picked by pickaxe.

Last edited by Lava (2019-12-25 14:22:43)

StrongForce · 2019-12-25 14:46:12

Almost nobody griefed wells and and oil with ancient walls. So if waystones work the same as walls there shouldn't be a problem. By that I mean removable with mallet and chizle for 10h

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2019-12-26 02:18:23

When this gets patched realistic the next easiest way to grief something of importance is to have layers of pine tree with one garland and a property fence around it. This way they have to finish a tree to cut it and if other griefers notice it they might renew the fence to make it even harder to break. I'm not saying you should do this but its the best option when waystones get patched.

ollj · 2019-12-26 13:44:02

you do not need oil, all you need is roads

andf bears.

waystones should eb non-blocking obelisks

Punkypal · 2019-12-27 04:02:40

I'll chime in here and also say waystone griefing needs to be addressed by Jason ASAP. It literally was the stone that broke this camel's back. This whole fiasco made me quit the game for now. Seriously, one of the biggest blunders I've ever seen in any game.

fug · 2019-12-27 04:16:58

Punkypal wrote:

I'll chime in here and also say waystone griefing needs to be addressed by Jason ASAP. It literally was the stone that broke this camel's back. This whole fiasco made me quit the game for now. Seriously, one of the biggest blunders I've ever seen in any game.

While I don't disagree that waystone griefing is complete aids I don't think its the worst blunder. Though yeah, hopefully that's on the top of his next week when its bug fix week.

Legs · 2019-12-27 05:21:36

Players are usually much better at a game than the devs are. It's a different skill set. The dev builds the world but doesn't inhabit it. I wonder how many engines jason has built in-game. At the same time, he's written thousands of lines of code.

Devs focus on abstraction while players are practical and creative. That's where the potential to grief comes from. Waystones blocking movement is intuitive, it's a huge block. Them being difficult to remove makes sense, they're important markers. He probably thought about how they could be used, but not about how they could be abused. That comes later after players get a chance to try the new tools.

fug · 2019-12-27 06:06:14

Legs wrote:

Players are usually much better at a game than the devs are. It's a different skill set. The dev builds the world but doesn't inhabit it. I wonder how many engines jason has built in-game. At the same time, he's written thousands of lines of code.
Devs focus on abstraction while players are practical and creative. That's where the potential to grief comes from. Waystones blocking movement is intuitive, it's a huge block. Them being difficult to remove makes sense, they're important markers. He probably thought about how they could be used, but not about how they could be abused. That comes later after players get a chance to try the new tools.

Of course players are better than the dev. The fact he thought reintroducing the same weapon bug on purpose was a good idea shows... Oh wait, he did that on purpose so people would use fences :^) (and for anyone who doesn't know, they didn't because fences could easily be griefed hence the "Tarr says fences are useless thread."

Jason lives in lala land when he pictures what the game could be.
Veteran players live in lala land because we cannot see what new players see.
New players live in lala land because they cannot understand what the game is.

Here's to hoping Jason's next game isn't fundamentally the same game 2 years into live updates.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-27 07:17:34

Lege wrote:

I wonder how many engines jason has built in-game.

Probably zero. There's an old thread by him where he tells the tale of one of his life trying to get an oil rig up. Jason didn't make it to a tank of kerosone and was trying to get the rig wet when he died. This was well before race restrictions.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-27 07:17:50)

DestinyCall · 2019-12-27 07:30:59

Legs wrote:

Players are usually much better at a game than the devs are. It's a different skill set. The dev builds the world but doesn't inhabit it. I wonder how many engines jason has built in-game. At the same time, he's written thousands of lines of code.
Devs focus on abstraction while players are practical and creative. That's where the potential to grief comes from. Waystones blocking movement is intuitive, it's a huge block. Them being difficult to remove makes sense, they're important markers. He probably thought about how they could be used, but not about how they could be abused. That comes later after players get a chance to try the new tools.

I'd cut some slack if this was the FIRST time that a permanent blocking object was used for griefing. But this has happened repeatedly. It should be immediately obvious that it would create a problem by now.

This isn't a surprising and original abuse of a new mechanic. It is a highly predictable one.

fug · 2019-12-27 07:36:43

DestinyCall wrote:

Legs wrote:
Players are usually much better at a game than the devs are. It's a different skill set. The dev builds the world but doesn't inhabit it. I wonder how many engines jason has built in-game. At the same time, he's written thousands of lines of code.
Devs focus on abstraction while players are practical and creative. That's where the potential to grief comes from. Waystones blocking movement is intuitive, it's a huge block. Them being difficult to remove makes sense, they're important markers. He probably thought about how they could be used, but not about how they could be abused. That comes later after players get a chance to try the new tools.

I'd cut some slack if this was the FIRST time that a permanent blocking object was used for griefing. But this has happened repeatedly. It should be immediately obvious that it would create a problem by now.
This isn't a surprising and original abuse of a new mechanic. It is a highly predictable one.

I mean this basically. It's not his first mistake and likely won't be his last. As he has said elsewhere everything he adds needs to be balanced around the ability to grief with the new addition because if its possible to grief with, it will be.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-12-25 12:41:50

Waystone Greifing

#2 2019-12-25 12:48:36

Re: Waystone Greifing

#3 2019-12-25 12:50:03

Re: Waystone Greifing

#4 2019-12-25 13:13:26

Re: Waystone Greifing

#5 2019-12-25 13:16:13

Re: Waystone Greifing

#6 2019-12-25 13:17:58

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#7 2019-12-25 14:20:48

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#8 2019-12-25 14:46:12

Re: Waystone Greifing

#9 2019-12-26 02:18:23

Re: Waystone Greifing

#10 2019-12-26 13:44:02

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#11 2019-12-27 04:02:40

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#12 2019-12-27 04:16:58

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#13 2019-12-27 05:21:36

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#14 2019-12-27 06:06:14

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#15 2019-12-27 07:17:34

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#16 2019-12-27 07:30:59

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#17 2019-12-27 07:36:43

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