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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 Re: Main Forum » Speaking slurs / hate speech in game » 2018-04-05 05:29:09

Agreed. I kill anyone I see using racial slurs, but it shouldn't be too hard to put a filter in the game to block the main ones from happening in the first place.

#2 Re: Main Forum » So has anyone else found themselves doing the same jobs? » 2018-04-02 03:09:27

I think I basically make a decision between two options: 

a) Is the community I find myself in direly needing something? (More food, more clothes, more soil?) Then make that. 

b) If not, focus on learning something new or making something I've never made before. I know in theory how to make blue or red clothing, for example, but I've never actually done it. So, if the chance comes up, that's something I'd like to aim for...

#3 Re: Main Forum » Keep all the children alive » 2018-04-02 03:03:30

Alleria wrote:

There are a variety of solutions to overpopulation - the least violent is making people emigrate.


This is not only less violent but more effective. A human player who is killed as a baby in one village is quite likely to just be re-born nearby or in the same village a few minutes later. If you have a few members of the family migrate together to another nearby village, you help protect the family line and you divide the population of IRL players across a broader region with a greater carrying capacity.

#4 Re: Main Forum » Map culling too extreme? » 2018-04-01 06:57:30

Drakulon wrote:

So all servers reset from time to time? Or just server 1?
I really wish they wouldn't reset, but maybe that would be bad?

If the servers would never reset people would run out of resources (stones, trees...)
I don't know any way to create stones or trees, is there one?


I think the resets are designed to deal with the problem of the map files growing very large over time. If a player goes on a long, long excursion out into the middle of nowhere, then drops a backpack and some clothes at the end of it, should that long "spike" into the empty map be saved and transmitted to every other player who plays on that server? If it is, the result over time will be needing to download a gigantic map file every time you play the game. 

Maybe "anchors" could lengthen the time to reset? So "normal" area would reset if nobody visited them for 24 hours, but "anchored" areas with floors, walls etc would reset if nobody visited them for a week?

#5 Re: Main Forum » Am I the only one that think names are too restricted ? » 2018-04-01 06:45:22

Something I like about the whitelist is that it takes some of the pressure off to give someone a "proper" name. If you can't think of anything, you can just type in "asdkfjasldf" and the whitelist will turn that into something pronounceable and "real". Certainly nicer for the person who has to live with that name.

#6 Re: Main Forum » Why murdering? » 2018-03-31 09:10:31

nameless wrote:

There are a few posts about the balancing of murdering, but I wonder why we even have that at all?

I've been raving about this game since before I got it. And even more after I got it. It's just a wonderfully different game that makes me actually think differently about real world issues.

But then I read about the addition of murdering and my heart sank. And then, sure enough, I was murdered. The killer gained nothing. I gained nothing. I lost a lot--I had started projects in the village and just got to cooperate for the first time on breaking down a wall (not an easy task to coordinate three people!).

I bet one of the reasons is: There is murdering in real life. Sure. But it's actually exceedingly uncommon! We love to talk about it and it gets great coverage in media. But it really is rare! Dying or struggling with diseases is much more common. If we're going with realism, that should certainly come before.

With this addition, I feel like this game suddenly went from really unique to just another game. I stopped myself from giving it a negative review, but I don't think I'll be recommending it anymore. Especially not to non-"gamer" folks.

Jason, please consider disabling this feature. Simply by having it in the game, you encourage bad behaviour. See Dan Cook's talk on the subject from GDC this year: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/ … JzES4/edit

You can play on one of the servers that has violence disabled... various types of griefing are still possible, but there's no more direct killing. It might suit your tastes better.

#7 Re: Main Forum » Am I the only one that think names are too restricted ? » 2018-03-31 01:53:24

Not sure if this is already happening, but if the server tracks the "failed" names in some fashion, Jason could just add them en masse to the whitelist each time he updates the game. Depending on how long that list is, I guess... but reading through a list of a hundred names and deleting a few "dykbutt"s etc before merging them with the main whitelist might not be too painful. So if "Jarkko" or "Kyung-Ae" aren't on the list, you can still try to use them, and then they may become permissible in a later update...

#8 Re: Main Forum » Seriously, why is murdering people so ridiculously easy in this game? » 2018-03-31 01:47:20

Am I the only person who runs away when a murder spree is going down? I know one can get very attached to a particular spot, but it's often true now that within fairly easy reach of a major settlement there'll be several small or medium sized settlements. Grab one of your kids, flee to the new area, then pick up where you left off. If different people run in different directions, the killer may be able to follow and kill some of them, but they're not going to be able to get them all. 

...or does fleeing just feel less "proper" than standing and facing the killer, even if it has a worse outcome?

#10 Re: Main Forum » Can I name myself? » 2018-03-30 06:53:41

Yeah, if you're an Eve, say "I am Robespierre" (for example) and that will become the family name of your line. 

edit: Robespierre is not on the canonical list. You can, however, name yourself Tsinnijinnie, which you probably should.

#12 Re: Main Forum » 31 Generations? » 2018-03-30 02:56:14

Semi-related rambling: 

If you're going for the record of most generations, isn't it dangerous to keep the whole family at one location? Isn't this "putting all your eggs in one basket"? 

Rather than killing "excess girls", why not have someone carry them over to a nearby village and start a "backup village" nearby? Wouldn't this give a bit more resilience and redundancy to the family line?

#13 Re: Main Forum » Knives and Raiding an Impossible Idea? » 2018-03-29 03:48:38

Yogotronik wrote:

Goliath, I just don’t understand where your getting these rules, cause they’re not from this game.

 

"I want to do whatever I like, including killing other people for no real reason. So, I've invented some rules for myself that make this all OK." 

"However, I don't like it when other people do the same thing back to me. So I've invented some more rules that make it wrong for other people to behave in ways that inconvenience me. Now I'm going to pretend that these rules I made up to justify my selfishness and hypocrisy weren't my own invention, but in fact descended from the heavens on stone tablets and should be obeyed by all players because of their inherent and obvious deep legitimacy."

#14 Re: Main Forum » Family or fallacy? » 2018-03-29 02:56:51

I'm not sure I agree with the solution... I do think there's something weird about the way players are responding to the gender differences in the game. On the one hand, villages can "die out" because of lack of girls, so, sure, it makes sense to want girls. 

However, they can also die out from overpopulation. And if you only have girls, doesn't it increase the danger that within a generation or two you're going to have a population explosion? Having a mix of boys and girls seems practical to me, even if the men are currently "biologically unnecessary". 

Ooh, this has just given me an idea...

#15 Re: Main Forum » This Will Stop Griefers (The Evolution of Trust) » 2018-03-28 05:57:46

Impression wrote:

In the real world even soldiers with explicit orders to kill each other can find peace and celebrate Christmas together, as shown here: The Evolution of Trust (Please check it out! It's certainly worth your time) So why shouldn't we be able to live in peace with some bows and knifes?
As said in the link, three things are needed so that cooperation evolves to become the norm:

1. Repeated interactions (with the same people)
2. Win-win situations
3. Good communication

Number 2 is already pretty much satisfied, but communication is still lacking and the random/anonymous nature of the game makes it hard to even know if you're interacting with the same people or not. If we could improve upon those points, bad behavior would drop drastically.
I don't know how we could do this, thought. Any ideas?

I think partly griefing at the moment is being driven by the low ceiling on the tech tree. It's pretty common now to come across or be born into a village that has "everything" lying around. What is there to do at that point? Make some more food, get it back to working order, make some surplus clothes to replace the inevitable losses? Sure, doing those things can be fun, and I enjoy them, but there's an obvious other answer: 

Bows and arrows are just lying around everywhere. Conflict is always immediately stimulating. So... why not go on a killing spree? 

That's not how I operate, but I can see why other people would lean in that direction. 

If you imagine a tech tree with another hundred items on it and which required a number of ingredients or processes that you've never seen before, and co-operation was really essential to making some of those more interesting items, you'd create stronger incentives for players to work together. "Have you ever made a suit of chainmail?" "No, me either, want to give it a try?" 

I think this will happen naturally anyway as Jason adds more stuff to the game. I know he's been a bit occupied with technical background stuff and with GDC, but I'm confident that as the complexity of the gameworld expands, the complexity of potential player behaviour will grow beyond the "farm or kill" choices which seem to be dominating at the moment.

#16 Re: Main Forum » Knives and Raiding an Impossible Idea? » 2018-03-28 05:45:33

Goliath wrote:

3. What you did by growing up as a child and slaying your own mother over a previous life event is called griefing.

 

"Thieving and murdering for no real reason is fine, it's just roleplaying as a thief and murderer lol." 
"When you get me back, though, that's griefing, it's unfair, you shouldn't be allowed to do that." 

WTH?

#17 Re: Main Forum » A cool, weird, and maybe harmless bug? » 2018-03-26 05:05:04

Don't lots of people already worship Carrot God? 

You'd think that Milkweed God would be a serious rival, but no...

#18 Re: Main Forum » Will there ever be a server reset? » 2018-03-26 01:56:14

Also, the addition of new biomes and new elements to the map will happen, I think, in areas that nobody has visited yet. Which means that even if there's well-developed regions in the "centre" of a map, in order to take advantage of new resources being added to the game, players may need to travel a long way away from those regions in order to get access to the "cool new stuff".

#19 Re: Main Forum » How to make a flower crown? » 2018-03-26 01:53:42

Can you link the video where you saw it?

#20 Re: Main Forum » Is the game over ? » 2018-03-26 01:52:05

I'm not sure why, but I've not actually seen that much griefing, myself. But from all the conversation about it, it's clearly a big issue for a lot of people. Anyway, my perspective may not reflect that of most other people because I haven't been that affected by it, but...

...I think within the context of the game, selfish and destructive behaviour makes sense as something that is "allowable". Successful co-operation is valuable partly because it's not automatic. Having a "ban" system or something else that artificially restricts selfishness doesn't, I think, fit the spirit of the game. The choice between good and evil, just as in real life, shouldn't have "magical" rewards attached to it that come from outside the gameworld. The reward for being good is just that you contribute to a community that makes progress; the reward for being evil is that you get the fun of ruining someone else's fun... but you never get to really create anything or the satisfaction of helping to move forward a project that is larger than yourself. 

It does seem at the moment that griefing is just a bit too easy; it makes intuitive sense that a single killer would be able to sneak into a community, kill one person, and probably sneak away without being caught. It makes much less sense that they would be able to walk into the middle of a thriving community of ten or more people and slaughter everyone out in the open without anyone being able to respond meaningfully or stop them or even escape. 

I'm not sure what the right answer is, but as much as people dislike the griefing, I think we should be leaning away from solutions along the lines of, eg, "ban griefers". Small changes with an element of realism but that help edge the balance toward "large groups of co-operative people" vs "a single destructive person" seem the most likely to fit in the spirit of the game, to me.

#21 Re: Main Forum » Solution to the increasing problem of murdering: Let's make it a sin! » 2018-03-23 14:44:02

I think the idea of having the mechanics of the game punish the griefers goes against the spirit of the game. 

I'm not sure what the right answer is. But I think hostility, danger, miscommunication, and the loss and destruction of your work all *belong* in the game. This is a game about co-operation and crafting and social progress, but also about death, failure, starvation, misery, and frustration. 

Even though you always die as an individual, there is a sense of a world outside yourself which can always move forward, and you can always help it move forward. 

But that's only meaningful if it's a choice. If someone decides to try to move the world backward, that should be possible too. 

I think the most exciting and interesting rewards of the game - discovery of new things, development of new technologies - should only be accessible through successful group co-operation. But... if someone has a destructive urge, well... that reflects something real about life, too. They get the reward of trying to spoil someone else's fun, and they get to discover how long that stays interesting for. My guess is that eventually it will start to wear thin. 

...anyway, yeah, just half-formed thoughts late at night. I guess: I think if the game guarantees successful group co-operation then it won't be challenging or interesting to achieve group co-operation. Maybe the griefers have too many advantages at the moment, and there needs to be some rebalancing. But, like bears or wolves or hunger... this game world is partly stimulating because it puts obstacles in front of you. The griefers are just adding another, different sort of obstacle.

#23 Re: Main Forum » Can I download one hour on another computer » 2018-03-23 03:57:34

Xuhybrid wrote:

Can you login on multiple devices at the same time? If so, i'd say that's going to be a piracy problem.

Don't know because I haven't tried, but I think Jason has probably accounted for this. What he's said elsewhere is, the game is open source, anyone can download the source, compile it and play... so what you're actually paying money for is a login to his server, where all the action is happening. I imagine it's not difficult to ensure that any one account is only logged in once at any one time.

#24 Re: Main Forum » Take the time to teach the 3 laws » 2018-03-23 03:52:40

"Don't die in clothes on farms" is super important, but I'm not sure it deserves to be made a law. Losing a full set of clothes means the destruction of a ton of rabbit fur and milkweed thread, but OTOH that stuff is all fully renewable.

#25 Re: Main Forum » I'm not having fun playing this game » 2018-03-21 15:59:27

Did you try the custom server with half hunger? It's a much gentler introduction to the game's systems because, without the frantic rush for food all the time, it's quite easy to wander around, find some things, make some things...

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