a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
You are not logged in.
For those of you who have played 100+ hours and are so mad after one day of change that you're thinking about asking for a refund....
Ugh, I have no words to describe this type of person…aside from insults. It's nice for people to be "passionate" about a game that they love, but…this is overinvestment in the extreme, combined with short-sightedness and a crippling lack of patience.
Try not to let them influence you too much, no matter how vocal they may be.
The game was supposed to be about working together to build up a society and world that stayed there.
Um…no. That's what "you" thought the game was about. And you were wrong. Because Jason has made it very clear what the game is about. It's about rebuilding civilization FROM SCRATCH. Not once, but over, and over, and over again. Because everything runs out. Regardless of the game being developed to the point of 200+ items, or finished with 10,000 items…EVERYTHING RUNS OUT. If you're not working on the next level of tech to keep the humans going in the next generation than you are already doomed. And when we finally reach the end of the (to-be-developed) tech tree…humans will STILL be doomed. And the world will NOT stay there.
Maybe that's not what you understood the game to be, but that was YOUR misunderstanding.
But I think you're right, about going away and giving the game time. Personally, my goal is to live to old age once or twice a week, as the changes get made. If I do that, over the course of two years, that will still be a WHOPPING 100-200+ hours playing a single game title, which (for me) is a ridiculous amount of time to spend playing any single game.
I know adding lots more stuff to do and more features is asking a lot, and I don't expect it of you.
Riiight. You know that this game has a two-year proposed timeline to develop all that stuff and features, right? Along with rewriting the database from scratch, and all the other things along the way. So maybe you should play a bit LESS, so you don't burn out before it's all done.
Because new Eves spawn so close by, villages are all near each other. That means that when one village dies, it's way too easy to continue it.
A village dying, which should be the most dramatic moment in the game, is kind of meaningless.
But a continuous family line is the POINT of this game. And should be necessary for a village that lasts.
A person can walk 4 tiles per second. Thus, in their hour-long life, they can walk 14,000 tiles.
So that's a good starting point for how far apart Eve spawns should be. Well, let's start with half that. 7000 tiles.
SO happy about this change. Frankly, I was really disappointed when I first started playing because I thought that a new Eve would only spawn after everybody had died out, and then the server would be wiped. I understand why that wouldn't work (with the need for players to be able to log in at any time), so this new change is very welcome. If I spawn as an Eve, I think I should be in a (relatively) untouched wilderness.
vilka wrote:Rebel wrote:and FYI I went from playing 4-5 hours a day down to 1 due to there being nothing to do, after the update i have been on so much more due to the resets. every life feels more like an achievement rather than the repetitive stuff we had before.
The Apocalypse caused you to have to start over but you could have done that any time you wanted if you were bored with repetitive stuff. Nothing was stopping you from venturing out to make a new town.
yeah playing on a world that has been destroyed by noobs picking all the milkweed killing all the rabbits and geese, the world was screwed even if you walked for half your life.
Exactly. That's why I stopped playing every evening because most of the time I couldn't manage to ESCAPE from all the dead settlements. Filled with the top end of the tech tree, but devoid of many of the basic necessary resources from the bottom. Like stockpiles of all the ingredients to make hundreds of pies, but not a single stone available to make the flour, because they'd all been turned into wells.
shoukanjuu wrote:Shallotte wrote:I don't get what 'specifically' your deal is. You are mad at people for giving criticism for a game (that they love btw) when it's really none of your business. If you like the new feature- fine. But if people feel that newly added feature is broken, then they have a right to say they don't like it. You can send angry comments my way all day but it won't change my opinion nor anyone elses.
I'm not the angry one, here. ;D
I'm not angry. I was just giving a statement. But judging from your above comments you certainly are and laughably a liar too ;D
I don't have anything to be angry about. Right now, when I try to play the game, I have map-loading problems 2 out of 3 times (where I starve before the map finishes loading), and when I do manage to get in, there seem to be some other glitches, as well (desert texture not loading, etc.). So I shrug and wait for the next update, and move on to do something else. And then I read this forum, and people are howling and carrying on as if they're in preschool, and someone just broke all of their crayons in half. I really don't get it. This is a game with a 2-year planned development time, and it's going to go through a LOT of changes, and some of those will be broken and need to be fixed, and some will get changed to balance with later developments, and so on. Anyone who wants an experience that is complete and not going to change from week-to-week should come back in a couple of years or so…
shoukanjuu wrote:Shallotte wrote:considering what has occurred I don't blame anyone for being angry
What, specifically, do you think anyone would be justifiably "angry" at Jason about?
I don't get what 'specifically' your deal is. You are mad at people for giving criticism for a game (that they love btw) when it's really none of your business. If you like the new feature- fine. But if people feel that newly added feature is broken, then they have a right to say they don't like it. You can send angry comments my way all day but it won't change my opinion nor anyone elses.
I'm not the angry one, here. ;D
considering what has occurred I don't blame anyone for being angry
What, specifically, do you think anyone would be justifiably "angry" at Jason about?
Breaking promises and business ontracts is not ok, however people frame what happened here.
You are absurd. Seriously, you are being ridiculous.
Truthseeker wrote:vilka wrote:Not one person has come even close to saying any of that but nice way to shut down any concerns people have with that hyperbole.
Actually I've been seeing people saying exactly this shit since the moment the update went live, the saltiness is enough to salt every plot on every server it's kind of impressive.
Yep, same. Everyone's been complaining like they just had their minecraft server wiped. And I will qualify my statement by saying that quite a few of these people are really just voicing concerns, rather than actually complaining. But quite a few are just whining and even going so far as asking for a refund.
You have my agreement, as well.
Also, a lot of people are complaining about Jason developing the game towards fulfilling the VERY EXPLICIT vision that was stated from the beginning. It's fine for someone not to like or agree with it, but they don't have a leg to stand on, if they're accusing Jason of CHANGING what the game is or was intended to be.
And no, actually it's also OUR game, since we actually paid for a supposedly finished game. It's ok to add content to a finished game. It's not ok to change the original idea that made you buy the game.
Wrong. It's Jason's game, and he's going to make it what he wants it to be. If you don't like that, ask for a refund.
If you don't have enough space to store enough carrots to feed everybody there is more than one solution, changing how storage works might be one, for sure. Another is store more food in the same space by utilizing higher density foods.
THIS IS WHY WE NEED CARROT COMPRESSION TECHNOLOGY
I just suggested this on Reddit, everybody be sure to upvote it!
You people who take food, destroy others hard work and call it a progress. You people who run away from others speaking to you with adivec... You destroy communities. Makes me sick.
Joriom, I read your post accross the forum and…maybe it's because English isn't your first language, but you sound like you need to take a break. A break from posting, or a break from the game, or both.
As a game, it's supposed to be fun.
No, no, and additionally, no.
Now that cities are being connected by roads it very easy for one person to run to each town and instantly murder everyone.
Have you considered NOT connecting all the towns? Like, seriously. Don't do it.
And thats the main point - self explanatory, simple farms that are hard to screw up.
That means unregulated, naked carrot farming for raw consumption. There is no layout so simple that it won’t be used contrary to the intent of the designer. If you aren’t solving the problem of communicating through the generations of turnover, than…you’re playing a different game.
you'll get dumbass who dries two wells to water one harvest... and second one dries two more to water compost and berry bushes. So you ALWAYS need "failsafe" ponds nearby.
Then this is going to be true in EVERY plan that uses wells. So ANY plan involving wells is subject to the same criticism.
As for the number of wells being unrealistic, it is not any less feasible than farming for raw carrot consumption. The use of water for raw carrots vs carrots for carrot pies is neck-and-neck, if you are composting and growing domestic berries and wheat (for either goal). It may APPEAR to you that you are able to produce more food with less water by farming for raw carrot consumption, but that is due to the volume of carrots. No system, no design, no method changes that relationship between the amount of water available and the size of the population you can support. It’s not a problem you can design your way past, because the game was DESIGNED that way.
Hey…what about this: crop rotation, and two wells per row, but no cisterns.
With one well for a single row, and alternating between carrots and wheat, as long as you take out a second portion of water each cycle, then you'll never run out. You'll need six soil every epoch, so you'll need two berry bushes, and the water for the compost…and best to alternate them, so you only have to dedicate one spot for compost, and then you'll need water to make the dough every 10 years. You would end up with 2 extra water from the second well every epoch, so…take out an extra water every time you compost and send it off for other uses.
You'd only need 1 seed row to support 10 rows using crop rotation.
Joriom wrote:Baker wrote:I don't get this whole anti-male thing that's going around. I personally prefer playing as a man over women, I can actually get stuff done without getting burdened by the constant stream of babies.
As a woman you con "get stuff done" as well - and if kid pops up, just let the MoFo starve. Not your problem. Let him be reborn to actual mother needeing child.
You don't like letting kids to starve? No my problem. Thats how it was for humans for millenia! And thats how you need to deal with stuff. Don't apply modern compassion rules to stone age or medieval society. If you want to be next saint - go play tetris.
Wow you got quite an attitude now don't you now?
It's a good attitude. If I'm out trapping rabbits or searching for whatever, I'll almost always ignore any babies that pop out along the way. Unless I've got pies (rare), or find myself right next to some berry bushes, when I'm fully dressed and have an adult hunger bar, then I might take the time to hold the baby, find out if it knows how to compost or whatever, and teach it what I think is the most important.
If I'm in a settlement and I'm doing stuff, I'll plop that baby down by the fire and most likely leave it to some other mothers to deal with.
If I'm an Eve, and I've come across enough resources that I think I can survive while raising a babe or two, and am either dressed or very close to it, then I'll give it a go, since it's not likely that I'll make any significant gains on my own, in a single lifetime.
Occasionally, I might find myself in the role of village mother, nursing ALL of the babies and trying to teach them what I can. Still, I'm pretty harsh. Babies are to stay put when I put them somewhere and to stay in my arms when I pick them up. If they can't even follow those simple directions, then the village doesn't need them, and that's an important lesson to learn.
Consider asking yourself what the purpose of the game is? To learn how to efficiently build everything in the game? Or to learn how to cooperate with a bunch of random people, each having a different set of experiences and goals?
I expect there to be a continuous influx of new players over time. Maybe not a huge amount, but enough so that there will always be a certain percentage of newbies needing to be trained. So…a little from column A, a little from column B. A lot of discussion on this forum is not just about figuring out the optimal settup, but one that can be communicated through multiple generations.
Just judging from the pace of content being added, I guess he intends to extend the game for a few years. He has control over that aspect of the game, but I suspect he is most interested to see how the *players* evolve over that time period.
I'm super-excited to see the path things take. After the initial flurry of playing over and over as much as I could, I've settled down to being satisfied with playing one or two lives lived to completion every day or so. I'm hoping to keep that up, at least a couple of times a week, over the course of the game's development. So I can watch the evolution of the game, the new tech, and how the players learn to use it all and organize themselves.
Antarys wrote:Why not just put Deep wells instead of cisterns? Since the most difficult part would be to get all the stones, and not the bucket + wood to upgrade it from a shallow well. Btw, are deep wells able to refill when they are empty now?
No, I don't think wells are able to refill when they are empty. Not yet anyway. And Joriom can correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe the Cisterns are for being able to tell when the "Water refill tick" happens since you cannot tell when Wells refill.
They will start to refill again after 10 hours if they've been dried. So they're not gone forever. But…I think that using cisterns to try to measure well usage will probably not work all that well, unless you carefully cordon off each well/cistern/carrot row to prevent confusion.
If always replanted/water/harvested super-promptly, you're going to need water every 4 minutes for a single carrot row. And water (be it a pond, shallow, or deep well) replenishes every 5 minutes…and that timer gets reset every time you draw from it. SO…if the timer DIDN'T reset, I would say that…you just dedicate 1 deep well per carrot row, and it would take over 4 epochs for it to go dry, even if you harvested/replanted/watered in ZERO seconds time EVERY time, over 60 times in a row…
…but if my understanding about the water replenishment being reset every time you take water out of the source is correct, than…if you start with a full deep well (14 portions), and a supply of 10 carrot seeds, take 10 portions of water from the well to fill a cistern, plant and water the carrot row, and then…even assuming instantaneous harvesting/replanting/watering…you keep planting and harvesting carrots until you have zero seeds, then and ONLY then do you take water from the well to refill the cistern to the brim, and let THAT crop go to seed…you will never dry the well. Although you will never have any EXTRA water, either (and you'll be taking the well down to a single portion every time you refill the cistern).
So, with one deep well and one cistern per carrot row, using your saved seeds until they run out, refilling the cistern and then letting that final planting go to seed…is sustainable.
Oh, wait, my math is totally off on that. 9 carrot harvests + 1 seed harvest would take 45 minutes, which would only be enough time for 9 water to replenish. So, every time you run out of seeds, you would need to get 1 extra water from a different source.
Um…Jason has been pretty clear about his goals. His goal is to add 100 items each week over the course of two years, to reach 10,000 items.
Personally, I think that's over-ambitious since he has to manage actual BUGS, plus rebalancing, and all the other stuff, and THEN still have time to develop 100 new items a week (even though, as you can see from the video, many "items" are permutations of other items, or all their different states—but still). That you watched the video and came away with the impression that the game had 10,000 items implemented NOW…that was incorrect.
Oh, and on the main page, you can see the Progress Report:
....Progress Report....
34 natural objects (latest: Soft Adobe Wall)
(latest: Alum) 8 playable characters 463 human-makeable objects
So that's where we're at.
Yes sorry for the late reply, work sucks XD
I'M ON A TIGHT SCHEDULE HERE GOT IT!?
Ha. Just joking. Are you sure that wild carrot seeds despawn? It doesn't look like it, in the recipe list…
the water that it takes to create the wheat, the compost to renew the wheat and the dough makes it vastly more expensive.
No, this is untrue. Assuming you're growing wheat and domestic berries for composting, only using carrots for pies (and compost) requires 0.2885 water per 8-hunger serving of pie, while farming for raw carrot consumption (and only making pies with the threshed wheat that's a by-product of raising wheat for the straw to compost) costs 0.2912 water per 8-hunger serving of raw carrots (plus bonus pies).
0.2885, vs 0.2912. It's a negligible difference, so making (carrot-only) pies isn't significantly MORE water-efficient, but it certainly isn't LESS, plus you get all the extra benefits of having pies (1/4 the storage space, being able to go further afield without having to waste space on food, etc.)
In addition, the benefit of making pies is that you are spreading the work around, instead of having a huge, crazy carrot farm. What typically happens is that people can't harvest fast enough (because they're running out of space to store carrots, even if they have a bunch of handcarts and dozens and dozens of baskets, so too many carrots go to seed, which reduces available space even MORE…
I was just in a decent settlement, and they had…maybe about a dozen carrot plots, and there were SO. MANY. @#$%ING. SEEDS. Even after I put a stop to any more seed production, and spent nearly half my life planting with the existing seed stock, we STILL had two ENTIRE handcarts full of seeds. That was enough seeds to plant ALL of our existing seed plots 4 times over! Instead of frantically trying to keep up with the carrot harvest, we NEEDED to cultivate the wheat and start making pies…with the ABUNDANT raw rabbits available (dozens). But because the MOMENT a plot of dirt was available, people would IMMEDIATELY replant and water, when there were STILL carrots needing to be harvested, nobody had time to do anything else…what with all the wasted time of trying to find a place to put the carrots, and the confusion of people picking up what you were trying to put down, etc. The rule should be harvest first, plant second (to get rid of seeds taking up storage space), and water third.
Obviously, pies take a bit more setup. If you're starting from scratch, you start with carrots. But you need to move to pies as soon as you're able to while maintaining enough carrots to keep you going. Because pies mean a longer range, and that makes it easier to hunt rabbits, and that makes it easier to keep everybody dressed, lowering food consumption. Because be it raw carrots or carrot pies, needing ~4-5 ponds/wells per naked person is just not feasible. It only SEEMS like it's working, when you're starting out with fresh ponds.
Carrots, meanwhile, are more efficient with water, and so are DEFINITELY more useful.
This is incorrect.
Based on the premise that you're farming long-term, and are farming wheat for the purpose of acquiring the straw necessary for composting, and are using domesticated gooseberry bushes to obtain the berries also required…
…AND taking into consideration the water costs of every point of dependency along the way (i.e., the use of carrots in composting to replace the soil for both the seed row and the wheat row for the next round of composting), and also making a few carrot pies with the "free" wheat obtained in the process of farming for straw…
…raw carrot farming clocks in at 0.2912 water per 8-hunger serving.
As opposed to farming carrots exclusively for carrot pie production, (in this case the straw is "free", with far more than is necessary for composting being produced in the process of farming for wheat)…
…which clocks in at 0.2886 water per 8-hunger serving.
SO
The difference in water-to-food efficiency is negligible, but carrot pies are far preferable to raw carrots, as you can fit 4x the servings in the same space, letting you spend less time going back and forth obtaining food and taking 1/4th the space to store your stockpile.
Either way, if you're naked, it's going to take 4.329-4.368 ponds/wells to keep each naked person fed (assuming they are taking full advantage of each serving).
unless whoever happens to find it goes off and puts it somewhere random
This exact thing happened. I had a bowl of mashed berries and carrot, off more than a screen's distance from any development, along with a basket of filled water pouches, and… Someone put it…wherever. I found it by chance, later on. But after coming back with reeds, and having to go look for more berries, the reeds were gone, so…
if you had told them that you were going to make compost and they still made baskets, all I can say is that village deserved to die out from that lack of soil.
I tried (more than once), but at this point, there were a half-dozen people running around all over the place, so who knows?
Actually, the number of times I had to spend several years of my life looking for where the sharp (or blunt) stone had gotten off to…exacerbated, of course, by the lack of local resources. There were…at least 3 DRY deep wells, and 4 DRY shallow wells, so all the stones in a wide swath around the settlement had been taken.
I've got a new rule, though…no babies, unless you have clothes. If you're naked, your number one priority is clothing yourself. If you're naked—unless you're in an untouched wilderness overflowing with berries…no babies.