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#1 2019-01-06 06:44:13

betame
Member
Registered: 2018-08-04
Posts: 202

All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

With v199 Heat Overhaul, the only thing that remains relevant is:
FoodConsumedPerHour = 3600/[2+20*(1-2*|heat-0.5|)]
Here's the graph of that equation:
cBOK71il.png


See CE's explanation of the new heat mechanics


- - - Remainder of the guide is outdated - - -

Last edited by betame (2019-03-07 12:26:56)


Morality is the interpretation of what is best for the well-being of humankind.
List of Guides | Resources per Food | Yum? | Temperature | Crafting Info: https://onetech.info

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#2 2019-01-06 06:45:15

betame
Member
Registered: 2018-08-04
Posts: 202

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

reserved for addenda


Historical Changes
betame wrote:
Temperature Changes from Update 195.

ADZQlvc.png
(the older curves are the faded ones)

Yellow Fever and Clothing

It adds 8 heat to your tile, so your clothing traps it in. Yellow fever is survivable (without assistance) so long as you don't have much clothing and you go to a neutral biome (or ice is even better) quickly enough.  The fever lasts 35 seconds, so if you start with all 6 pips you can survive at an average of 5.84 sec/pip.

Biome Ins% playerHeat Sec/Pip
Ice    0%    0.5822     18.71
Ice   44%    0.9040     5.84

Neut   0%    0.6340     16.64
Neut  40%    0.9098     5.61

due to heat latency, you might also get away with a tiny bit more insulation.



Ask questions; help me explain every detail to you all.

Please don't rant here. There's already another thread that's better suited.


Temperature is a key aspect of the game; it controls food consumption, and contributes to birth rate. And there’s a good block of server code dedicated to its calculation.

I had looked through the server’s heat code and wanna explain it to y’all in one place.  Player heat is calculated by looking at heat sources/sinks (biome tiles, coals, snowmen) and heat barriers (walls, floors, closed doors, worn clothes). The calculation only looks 5 tiles North & West, and 4 tiles South & East of your player’s tile. Update v195 reduced the heatMap range to 4N&W and 3S&E tiles to save computation time. Note the player’s tile produces an additional 1 body heat (also its insulation is capped at 100%). The calculation is then done by spreading the heat to neighboring tiles, spreading less between insulated tiles proportionally. (Spreading is done for each tile 7 times, between adjacent and diagonal tiles)

The remainder of the guide remains as it was before Update v195

map uRoP3uIm.png
= insulation lXn7rZcm.png + heat sources XuiZxyWm.png

= player heat x1Tpu9Cm.png 0.2833881863230042

FoodDecrementTimeSeconds = 13.335527452920168 because
FoodDecrementTimeSeconds = 2+20*(1-2*|heat-0.5|)

foodPerHour = 269.9555763886703 because
FoodConsumedPerHour = 3600/[2+20*(1-2*|heat-0.5|)]
Here's the graph of that equation:
cBOK71il.png


Hunger and Clothing

3YzO24jl.png


Fertility Factor* and Clothing

BPmLhBhl.png
*(Read: Warmth)
note Yum is an additional 0~0.5 on top of the warmth fertility. Greep explains below


Yellow Fever and Clothing

It adds 8 heat to your tile, so your clothing traps it in. Yellow fever is survivable (without assistance) so long as you don't have much clothing and you go to a neutral biome (or ice is even better) quickly enough.  The fever lasts 35 seconds, so if you start with all 6 pips you can survive at 5.84 sec/pip.

Biome Ins% playerHeat Sec/Pip
Ice    0%    0.5063     21.75
Ice   52%    0.8968     6.13

Neut   0%    0.6346     16.61
Neut  40%    0.9100     5.599
Example Heatmap

N6aMtteh.png
tqyvSuah.png

Building and Temperature

How to build the perfect house (put floors under your walls even though it looks weird)
Where to (not) put floors (desert floors cook you) ([slow] fire tiles/ any tile over 0.5 heat should be unfloored)
rfDyHKah.png
I realize this door placement isn't aesthetic, but normal door placement doesn't change a lot.

Heat Latency

Noting that the heatmaps show the environment's heat, which you'll approach over time.

Data Source and Validity

Data came from my python transcription of the server's heat code. There's official thermalSim files on the OHOL GitHub, I just didn't want to pay for the C++ language.
Graphs use data points with 0.05 step size, linearly interpolated between.

I play tested** a number of values to verify its accuracy:

Play-tested Seconds per Pip | Condition(s)
4.776, 4.800, 4.820;  4.783, 4.808 | Center of last room of tutorial 0% ins.; middle of large Neutral biome outside of tutorial 0% ins.
8.335  | center of large desert biome 0% ins.
5.761  | Center of last room of tutorial w/ shoes and bottom
8.060  | Center of last room of tutorial w/ coat, shoes, and bottom
12.365 | Center of last room of tutorial w/ hat, coat, shoes, and bottom
7.041  | Center of last room of tutorial w/ hat, shoes, and bottom
21.49, 21.53 | Tutorial fire room - tile between fire and center tile (door closed)
12.40, 12.39 | Tutorial fire room - center tile (door closed)
10.68 | Tutorial fire room - center tile (door open)
18.55 | Tutorial fire room - tile between fire and center tile (door closed) w/ 86.75% ins.

**Timed the loss of 10 full pips then divided the time by 10, pressed timer at start and end so human error cancels better.

Play-tested code for Update v195:
desert at 0% insulation: ~ 11.551 seconds per pip


RGrid for room examples

RGrid for room examples

Floors, no fire
0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,.85,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1,.1,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1,.1,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1, .1,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1,.1,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1,.1,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,.85,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,

Floors, Three Fires
0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,.85,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,.1,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,.1,.1,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1, 0,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1,.1,.1,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1,.1,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,.85,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,

unfloored, central fire
0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,.85,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,.85,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,

floored, central fire
   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,.1,.1,.1,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,.85,.1,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1,.1,.1,.1,1,.1,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1,.1,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1, 0,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,.1,.1,.1,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,.1,1,.1,.1,.1,.1,.1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,.1,.85,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,
                   0,0,0,0,0,0,.1,.1,.1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,

I welcome any further playtests from y'all.

Last edited by betame (2019-02-28 04:03:36)


Morality is the interpretation of what is best for the well-being of humankind.
List of Guides | Resources per Food | Yum? | Temperature | Crafting Info: https://onetech.info

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#3 2019-01-06 06:59:44

Greep
Member
Registered: 2018-12-16
Posts: 289

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

Might want to fully elaborate on fertility.  From what I undestand it's you get a weghting based on yum, temperature, and are picked for babies based on that weighting.

Example:

Mom1: Temp: mild (0.5 weight) + 8 yum (highest Yum on server, so 0.5 weight)
Mom2: Temp: hot (lets call it 0.2) + 2 yum (0.125)
Mom3: Temp: worst (0 weight) + 0 yum (0 weight)

Total weights:

Mom1:1
Mom2:0.325
Mom3:0

Baby chance:

Mom1: 1/1.375 = ~72%
Mom2: 0.375/1.375 = ~28%
Mom3: 0/1.375 = 0%

So basically, mom3 is essentially infertile, and mom1 is going to seriously pop out kids.

Last edited by Greep (2019-01-06 07:02:11)


Likes sword based eve names.  Claymore, blades, sword.  Never understimate the blades!

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#4 2019-01-06 07:23:10

betame
Member
Registered: 2018-08-04
Posts: 202

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

Greep wrote:

Might want to fully elaborate on fertility.

Your post does a perfect job so I linked to it.

Also the birth cool down sets a cap for birth rate (bell-curve-like distribution from [0 to 5] minutes with a mean of ~2 minutes, based on server code comments)


Morality is the interpretation of what is best for the well-being of humankind.
List of Guides | Resources per Food | Yum? | Temperature | Crafting Info: https://onetech.info

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#5 2019-01-06 07:46:16

ryanb
Member
Registered: 2018-03-08
Posts: 217
Website

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

This is awesome, thanks for laying out all of this info clearly! I have tried to interpret how the heat and insulation calculation works from the code but would always get a bit lost. I understand it much better now.


One Hour One Life Crafting Reference
https://onetech.info/

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#6 2019-01-06 14:45:32

BlueDiamondAvatar
Member
Registered: 2018-11-19
Posts: 322

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

This is great.

I'd like to discuss a specific example.  Have you seen San-Cal's university?  It's a very large building with ancient stone walls and board floors, built mostly over desert tiles.  Most people visiting it from San-Cal have some amount of clothing on.  Most people enter it from the north, where the edge of the building lies on the normal forest biome.

I've been telling people it's a frying pan of death since before it was finished.  I also try to tell people about the food per hour difference, but people don't seem to take me seriously.  But I've cleaned a LOT of bodies out of there. So I think we should call food per hour the starvation rate.

Next time I'm there, I'm going to say, "This place has four times the starvation rate as the rest of the town.  I'm not staying here, and you shouldn't either."


--Blue Diamond

I aim to leave behind a world that is easier for people to live in that it was before I got there.

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#7 2019-01-06 15:20:06

thundersen
Member
Registered: 2018-12-02
Posts: 92

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

Thanks betame, this is pure awesomeness!

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#8 2019-01-06 15:48:19

CrazyEddie
Member
Registered: 2018-11-12
Posts: 676

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

The moral of the story is don't go to study at University without a backpack full of snacks! JUST LIKE IN REAL LIFE

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#9 2019-01-06 18:22:50

Tarr
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 1,560

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

Still not a fan of yum being in the equation for fertility. It's awkward to add something like this into the mix when the best way to acquire high yum chains is to inflict yourself with yellow fever repeatedly so you can rapidly eat different foods to chain quickly.


fug it’s Tarr.

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#10 2019-01-06 20:18:08

CrazyEddie
Member
Registered: 2018-11-12
Posts: 676

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

I was going to say that that's not much of an issue, because very few people will do that.

However, if one person does it, then it will effectively render the yum fertility bonus non-existent for everyone else, because the bonus scales relative to the highest yum that anyone currently has. The one person using yellow fever to boost their yum bonus to very high levels will get at least twice as many children (subject to the birthing cooldown) as everyone else, and nobody else's yum levels will have any meaningful effect on their fertility.

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#11 2019-01-06 22:17:08

Greep
Member
Registered: 2018-12-16
Posts: 289

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

I'll have to look at the code again, but I'm assuming it's the yum multiplier, not the yum pip bonus, that's looked at.  In which case the yellow fever exploit thing would probably be a minor benefit mostly canceled out by the temporary bad temperature of yellow fever.


Likes sword based eve names.  Claymore, blades, sword.  Never understimate the blades!

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#12 2019-01-06 22:36:07

betame
Member
Registered: 2018-08-04
Posts: 202

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

My takeaways:
When playing, don't waste time getting a perfect temperature; being half-freezing or half-burning isn't terrible.

The same amount of food (read: labor) can support 1 grass folk, 2 desert folk, or 4 jungle folk.

The best cost/reward technology for improving the warmth fertility factor is by far the desert edge or jungle tile.

Clothes can kill you.

Last edited by betame (2019-01-09 11:49:17)


Morality is the interpretation of what is best for the well-being of humankind.
List of Guides | Resources per Food | Yum? | Temperature | Crafting Info: https://onetech.info

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#13 2019-01-06 22:56:45

betame
Member
Registered: 2018-08-04
Posts: 202

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

Greep wrote:

I'll have to look at the code again, but I'm assuming it's the yum multiplier, not the yum pip bonus, that's looked at.

That's correct.


Morality is the interpretation of what is best for the well-being of humankind.
List of Guides | Resources per Food | Yum? | Temperature | Crafting Info: https://onetech.info

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#14 2019-01-07 03:09:57

betame
Member
Registered: 2018-08-04
Posts: 202

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

BlueDiamondAvatar wrote:

I'd like to discuss a specific example.  Have you seen San-Cal's university?  It's a very large building with ancient stone walls and board floors, built mostly over desert tiles.

Some numbers for you. This is assuming you're in the middle of 10x10 floors, in a single biome.

With 0% ins:
Jungle  171.22367097569818
Neutral 674.8529543646326
Desert  494.2180101036996

With 34% ins:
Jungle  166.92917480926906
Neutral 540.0993030733902
Desert  620.9566859513948

This case happens to be similar to adding ~0.2 insulation.


Morality is the interpretation of what is best for the well-being of humankind.
List of Guides | Resources per Food | Yum? | Temperature | Crafting Info: https://onetech.info

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#15 2019-01-07 03:55:50

BlueDiamondAvatar
Member
Registered: 2018-11-19
Posts: 322

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

Greep wrote:

So basically, mom3 is essentially infertile, and mom1 is going to seriously pop out kids.

I don't have any issue with your math, but I think people are extrapolating over lifetimes a bit too much.  The competition for babies is happening each instant that a player joining the server, not over a lifetime.  Once Mom 1 has a child, Mom2 and Mom3 have much better odds for the duration of Mom1's cool down period.

Mom3 is infertile for as long as she stays in a bad temperature and has a low yum bonus. But no one spends their life in the tundra. The instant she moves to a better temperature zone, her odds of giving birth increase.  (Has anyone else started noticing that they will give birth the moment they get to a desert edge?)

Mom1's yum bonus and temperature balancing will be of benefit to her as long as she maintains them.  But she'll only have a constant stream of kids IF she can maintain it, and eventually you have to eat something that breaks your yum chain, unless you have a really big and well stocked town.

So since everyone has lows and highs in yum bonus and temperature, the real meta is to time your yum bonus high and temperature balancing for the moment your baby cooldown ends, while otherwise going about your business.


--Blue Diamond

I aim to leave behind a world that is easier for people to live in that it was before I got there.

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#16 2019-01-10 15:34:15

betame
Member
Registered: 2018-08-04
Posts: 202

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

Added heatmaps for rooms. Bigger rooms have barely any wall-fire interaction, and smaller rooms seem impractical. Thoughts? Are there any scenarios/ theories/ data representation additions that would help y'all?

Overall, though, if you're trying to build a warm room, you're best off choosing a jungle location and not stressing about insulating architecture.

Last edited by betame (2019-01-10 15:38:41)


Morality is the interpretation of what is best for the well-being of humankind.
List of Guides | Resources per Food | Yum? | Temperature | Crafting Info: https://onetech.info

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#17 2019-01-11 19:16:21

dangergirl713
Member
Registered: 2018-11-14
Posts: 71

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

Do kilns and ovens count as heat sources?

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#18 2019-01-11 20:24:45

betame
Member
Registered: 2018-08-04
Posts: 202

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

dangergirl713 wrote:

Do kilns and ovens count as heat sources?

Nope.
They do not produce any heat nor do they insulate like walls. --according to their object files, which is also neatly presented on OneTech.

So kilns/ ovens should be built in desert edges/ jungles. Preferably have the fire in a cool spot.

Last edited by betame (2019-01-11 20:32:59)


Morality is the interpretation of what is best for the well-being of humankind.
List of Guides | Resources per Food | Yum? | Temperature | Crafting Info: https://onetech.info

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#19 2019-01-12 05:03:09

GreatShawn
Member
Registered: 2018-09-08
Posts: 381

Re: All about Temperature [OUTDATED]

Geeks showing off again big_smile

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