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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 Re: Main Forum » Game is dying » 2018-04-26 16:06:46

Right now, as much as I want the game to be fun.  It just isn't.  The decay implementation needs some tweaks and then it should be fine.  Normally designers need to ignore how plays suggest things change and focus on what it is that bothers them.  I don't know what the rules are for when another developer plays your game, but I guess it can't hurt to say how I would try adjusting things as a first step.  Obviously it will take more than one adjustment to figure out what works best and some decay and durability may simply have to be removed in the end.

1) I would use look away decay.  That is to say, that only sectors that have had no interaction for several hours start to decay (or at the very least only decay while all players are away, time could accumulate during awayness and then the first time an area is alone for 5 minutes after the threshold is met trigger the decay instead of needing it all at once.  Your choice, and I'm sure there are other means of implementing it).  Decay could be grid based with a distributed random on the chunk.  First clearing out structures, and later after a second look away threshold is met, small objects and tools could decay.  At the same time, trees and other resources should fill in some of the cleared spaces.  In this scenario, Players never have items decay out from under them, instead they just encounter ancient overgrown ruins, and if it goes long enough fresh wilderness.  A much more fun experience than items breaking just sitting next to you.
(I am assuming you mark items with a counter to approach decay events rather than running timers on everything).

2) I would double the durability on all current items using durability because they all feel brittle right now, and then add a means of repair that uses fewer resources than needing to replace the whole object or introduce recycling where parts can be reclaimed.  For example, a half decayed basket that is come upon needs to have a reed added to it to restore it. A broken hatchet needs a new handle.  A broken ax breaks into a dull axe head, you sharpen the axe head and put it on a new shaft, or you get back scrap metal and reforge it.

I want it to be fun, but I find my self stopping mid play and just exiting the game out of dullness, something I hadn't experienced in the game until the decay and durability features were added.  I don't know if this is because the flow is interrupted, or because it just feels like nothing ever goes anywhere, but it is definitely a blah feeling.  I also haven't been able to do anything but try to not die/try to keep other people from dieing and replace broken stuff, so I haven't even gotten to experiment with any of the newer stuff.

#2 Re: Main Forum » Decay is great. BUT. » 2018-04-23 23:44:36

I second this, though I think being able to repair containers would help a lot.  That way we don't have to transfer everything inside constantly... cus that is just annoying.

#3 Re: Main Forum » Reed Skirt meta » 2018-04-23 23:41:22

it's not really logical, real life reed baskets last for over a hundred years when maintained, indefinitely with repairs.  Metal tools last for around two hundred years with maintenance.  Furs and hides last around 100 years.  Real life isn't really related to the game, lol.

#4 Re: Main Forum » The decay update is perfectly fine, it's players that are wrong » 2018-04-23 19:53:23

While durability is always a risky design move, sometimes it works.  The way it is implemented in this game at this moment is not one of those times.  I think adding the ability to repair and maintain items would change it from simply annoying to fun, but I believe that containers degrading is a bad idea.  This game sits on a grid, and has one object per grid slot.  The grid is very largely spaced.  Container items help make up for this space issue, but it is a bit clunky.  Still the overall charm of the game compensates for the interface shortcoming... until now.  Now you have a situation where you have containers full of items that need to be replaced with new containers and that means find the space to take everything out and put it into another container.  Also once everything is out of the decaying container, you have a decayed container object eating a grid slot that needs to be dealt with.  Effectively, the game currently feels like grid management, the game.  This isn't a challenge, it is just annoying.  Repairable items would go a long way towards making the decay feature positive, though I'm sure there are other means of tuning the situations.

That said, I do very much like the tilling and compost updates and how there are tiers to the hoe.

#5 Bug Discussion » Basket turned to flat rock on death » 2018-04-15 23:25:43

Darcie
Replies: 0

Hi,

I was running and holding a basket with some cactus fruit in it.  A rattlesnake and myself converged and I died.  I was reborn close enough to go back to my body, but the body had a flat rock.  There was not a flat rock in that spot when I died, so while someone could have grabbed the basket, the flat rock being there at all is weird.

#6 Re: Main Forum » On grief terrorism, and to new players recently murdered/griefed » 2018-04-14 21:32:40

KucheKlizma wrote:

Lmao political grief terrorism. You're full of shit.
Maybe there's 1-2 delusional people thinking they're doing that, out of 100 that just did it for no particular reason.

People grief because they can. I've griefed, you've griefed, everyone does it at one point or another.
It's easy, why not?

Griefing is not a normal healthy behavior, no matter how you look at it.  Griefers are either people who derive pleasure from causing suffering in others, or people who fail to recognize that the other players are real people, with real feelings, or they are individuals unable to experience empathy.  Occasionally you might get people who do it because they over value someone who is of one of the above mindsets and foolishly seek to appeal to them.  Basically, there isn't a healthy version of intentionally inflicting pain on other people, no matter how you try to spin it.  So no, we do not all grief.

That said, this game is one of the most grief proof games I have ever seen.  The entire premise of only living 60 minutes kind of removes the worst of it.  I just roll my eyes when I see someone trying to be a dick.  All  see is "oh, there is a broken person, must suck to be them in real life." and then I get reborn in game and that is the end of it.

#7 Re: Main Forum » Suicide Babies » 2018-04-12 04:46:59

I have done this when
1)  One of the players in the city says something that shows they are a terrible person.  I'm not interested in playing with people like that.
2)  I hope to re-spawn at a spot I was just recently. ( give it three tries, usually I get it on the second oddly).
3)  I reflexively hit Get Reborn look at the clock and realize I don't have time.
4)  I see a million other babies.
5)  I see all boys and I just spawned as a boy.  Usually if I do this, I will pop back to the exact same spot as a badly needed girl.

#8 Main Forum » Rattle Snakes » 2018-04-12 04:37:47

Darcie
Replies: 14

Some rattle snake feedback

It would be nice if rattle snakes actually rattled to warn you.  A simple increase rattle sound on approach would be a possible solution.  This is what real life rattle snakes do.  It is their defining feature.  Right now I feel like I am walking into puff adders.

Pathfinding loves to force me into a rattlesnake.  At first I thought it was just if I landed on a spot with a snake and I wasn't seeing it, but after watching closely several times and getting better at spotting them, it looks like the path going through them is enough... that or it is lag, but if waling past a snake causes death, I don't think path finding is refined enough to support this as it is all to easy for an auto path to ram one into a snake that otherwise would be avoided, so land on tile would be better, imho.  Plus real snakes don't bite every time the path is crossed anyway.  If it was just a lot of lag, ignore this comment.

Is it just me or do the snakes read as berry bushes out of the corner of the eye.  I don't even know why I keep thinking that, they aren't even the same color, and yet, I always start to walk towards them when looking for berries and then feel the need to abort.  Just an odd observation.

I have twice now had what appeared to be a snake spawn right in front of me, but that could be my eyes... I die a lot to rattle snakes.


Other things I have noticed recently:

Currently, rabbit holes start in the non present state when they first load in, it would be nice if they spawned with the family state so eves are not required to run around doing nothing but initializing them so they can eventually be trapped in 10 minutes.

Currently, cacti start in the non fruit, non flower state.  It would be nice if they started in a random state or in the fruiting state so eves don't die everywhere they run if a desert is around.

Awesome work on the ground texture.  Love the snake despite what I mentioned above, Cacti fruit make lovely shoes, though I think without that little bug starting a new home may be a bit too difficult.  I have played a lot, it is a major challenge to get started now, WITH the food on feet bug.  I think adjusting the cacti to start with fruit could compensate for food on feet when you fix that.  (everyone who just got mad at me for telling him, he was bound to notice eventually, sorry).

It would be nice if Apocalypse was a bit less frequent.

#9 Re: Main Forum » How to make more worms? » 2018-04-08 19:29:16

I propose being able to put soil/compost back into a pit, with water for an hour to get new wormy pit with several worms.  That would make it renewable.  Alternatively, they could self renew as wormy if water added and then 10 hours, that would force people to deal with resource crash and disperse, though I think dispersal will be solved with just changing how eves spawn.  Remember, people go to sleep, so cities tend to die out at non peak traffic hours for lack of players, not because people are done with them exactly.  If spawning is larger area but some ties to pull people back to visited areas it should work out for a mix of fresh areas and cities.  It will just be a bit of a balancing act to work the details out.  Obviously, getting the back end where it can handle scaling has to come first though smile

#10 Re: News » Update: The Apocalypse » 2018-04-06 23:17:21

I'm disappointed by this update and I'd like to explain why I feel the apocalypse mechanic ruins the game for me.  I told a lot of people at GDC about this game and it has 3 unique features that make it stand out from the heaps of other games in this genre type.

3) After 60 minutes, you die.  Your character is impermanent.  This means dieing is that that important, what is more important is moving the game forward for the next generation, raising the next generation, etc.

2) For the first few minutes of play, you are a helpless baby.  You have to beg other players to take care of you.  This gives time to become attached/invested in the community you have been born into. (Note that adding names actually damaged this slightly as people began valuing their name living on over everything else)

1) The world is persistent.  This means if players screw up and ruin natural resources, that is it, they are screwed and have to move on.  This makes the desire to pass on knowledge to other players very strong and pushing players to find inventive sustainability solutions as well as drawing parallels to the real world.

Adding a reset button to the game, which is what the apocalypse feature does, ruins the most unique aspect of the game.

I had assumed a slow decay nature reclaim would be eventually introduced for sectors that went for a few days without players interacting with tiles.  Essentially, rebuilding a block of the server in the wild state if abandoned long enough or something along those lines as a game world does eventually have to deal with the finite nature of itself, but I was expecting something that would be less than obvious to the player, and more importantly, outside the players direct control, thus ruining an area could not be quick fixed.  So now I would like to outline the problems this feature introduces.

1) Players never know when the the world could be reset next.  They can never expect to some day come across the same city they were in once days or weeks ago.  They wont think, "some day the pile of rocks I put here as I starve as an eve could be used by another player."  They will think, "the sever is just going to get reset eventually anyway, no point."

2) Using up limited resources doesn't matter anymore.  After all, the server is just going to reset anyway.

3) Griefing behaviors don't matter because the city is going to vanish when the server resets anyway.  If they don't matter, they become normal gameplay.

4) One group is building a new city and having fun.  Another group has ruined their city and desires to reset the server, and they do.  Screwing over the other players.

5) New meta game, grief the whole server at once by resetting it!

Now I would like to focus on what made the server not being reset so cool.

1) Thoughts like: "Some day, when the city is stable, I can create a caravan with others and we can build a new city in an area that couldn't support people otherwise."

2)  "We can build roads to link cities."

3)  "We can polish and refine our city to be better than ever."

4)  "We can explore because we have enough food."

5)  New players can learn how to play here before getting blind sided by wilderness.

I guess what really struck me about the game was the ripple effect.  How my action changed the world and the experience for everyone, for good or bad.  And eventually any action would be sponged away, through the march of time, as players picked up and moved anything I put down, as time decayed it.  An instant wipe conflicts with this, so I'm not a fan of how it is being implemented.

I'm sorry that this isn't edited and coherent and pretty, but I have to take off for something.  I just thought it would be helpful to articulate the reasons why the server reset button kind of killed the game for me and some others.  I also happened to sit through one already and it seems like it may have crashed some stuff too, but that aside if this were to be implemented, one that has to be prevented is better than one that is initiated.  (IE enough players have to do x y and z every day to stop a reset, or something like that).  I am out of time though.  Anyhow, was enjoying the game until now, so thanks for that.

#11 Re: Main Forum » Request for list of content quick-fixes for tomorrow » 2018-03-16 03:25:37

Left4twenty wrote:

Digable milkweed stumps? hopefully not too late

Stumps regrow.  The plant only dies and vanishes if you crush it when not fruiting.  You can remove them that way.  A digable form would just give griefers a new joy.

#12 Re: Main Forum » Request for list of content quick-fixes for tomorrow » 2018-03-15 15:30:02

When holding an item like a basket, currently you can not set it down and swap it with another basket.  I think this changed when the item rotation was added.  If a normal click could swap baskets with items on the ground or other baskets that would be great. 

When the wolf hat is on it is hard to get things into and out of backpack.  It also got harder in general after the last patch, again might be related to the item rotation feature being added.

I can't remember for sure, but it seems like baskets also could not be rotated out of carts and boxes now, which would be nice since death by not being able to set down to pick up is difficult even when we had easy basket swapping.

Really like the game.  Nice work. Maybe we will run into each other at GDC. wink

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