On grief terrorism, and to new players recently murdered/griefed

powa · 2018-04-14 18:23:59

Hopefully this can serve as some kind of public service announcement for new players who have been murdered and griefed in an otherwise successful village:

Currently there are a few experienced players spending a lot of time just griefing as many people as possible. This is political and is temporary.

Don't let this put you off of the game for good. It's actually been awesome and that activity is not normal.

It is my understanding that they are doing this to show that griefing is actually too easy and disrupts the main flow of the game. They're even probably trying to help the long term situation for new players.

Well, many people, including the developer (see http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1004), are already worried that the game is losing its appeal to many people. It's been very hard for new players to be successful getting started with a settlement and family (hopefully helped by the recent temporary food sources of the last update. see http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewto … 1118#p8464 , and https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … p?id=1121).

Some of us worry that the recent wave of politically motivated griefing is ultimately contributing to the problem. That the short term disruption on the player base is too significant.

I actually agree with their stance that griefing is currently too easy.

However, even ignoring the possibility of turning off new players from the game, I think it's extremely unfair to take out one's dissatisfaction with the design choices of a developer on a hundred or so people (maybe more eventually?).

But I hope that good comes out of this recent griefer terrorism. Perhaps enough attention will be brought to the issue.

On the other hand, the developer has made it clear that he is aware of everyone's displeasure with the ease of murdering and griefing (there are over a dozen forum posts here on the subject). So, accounting for some recent adjustments over recent updates, he doesn't seem nearly as concerned with the normal level of griefing and has already taken into account the displeasure of the community.

So it seems farfetched that the current terrorism, which is then only raising the griefing activity temporarily, would convince the developer that the normal amount is too much.

It seems to me that the only way for the terrorists to make progress would be to continue their rampage until they are somehow banned or the developer caves somewhat to their demands.

In either of these cases, which would probably require a whole lot more killings, the damage to the new player experience may become huge.

Stick with us, newbies! It's worth it, the game is a unique and amazing experience. If any issue gets too bad, it will be dealt with; the developer is very active and in tune to the opinions of the community.

Ka · 2018-04-14 19:17:04

I love how you called this terrorism, because it is. I strongly disagree with their methods, and think that they're actually doing the game more harm than good (if any).

Player base is already low. The game is not a financial success yet. A lot of newcomers were playing the game for the first time today, and they've seen the worst part of humans way more than what's normal. This is the most heartwarming game I've ever seen, but today I kept being sad and angry all the time, and I don't want that to be how new players feel, else the game risks to fail and be lost forever.

Still, I don't want the developer to do anything about it. Other than the fact that YOU SHOULDN'T NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS, this is a life simulator, and LIFE ISN'T BALANCED. This is a social experiment, and WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

This terrorism is no different from saying something like "life is shit, people are assholes, so I'm just gonna be an asshole myself and not care", thus making the world a shittier place.
This is regression. This is spoiled whining. This is lazy nihilism. It is not justice, it is not martyrism, and it is definitely not helpful for the game.

People should make things better by being better people, not by becoming what they hate to increase its visibility so that OTHER people deal with it. This is all just sad, lazy, and frankly pathetic.

So STOP KILLING THE GAME WE LOVE. STOP EXPECTING OTHERS TO FIX SHIT FOR YOU. And STOP EXPECTING LIFE TO BE FAIR, for crying out loud.

Lavea · 2018-04-14 19:31:58

Thanks Played the game the first time today. (My very first mum named me Missy). So far - apart from being abandoned quite a lot lol - but I guess that's par for the course met a lot of nice people too. Not managed to live past the age of 12 yet and feeling bad I'm such a resource drain cause I've no idea what I'm doing - but definitely planning to try and get better.

KucheKlizma · 2018-04-14 19:48:47

Lmao political grief terrorism. You're full of shit.
Maybe there's 1-2 delusional people thinking they're doing that, out of 100 that just did it for no particular reason.

People grief because they can. I've griefed, you've griefed, everyone does it at one point or another.
It's easy, why not?

As long as the game provides methods to ruin others game experience, it will continue.

If the developer doesn't change it, it will never EVER stop and no amount of communist propaganda will prevent people from doing it.

It begs the question - why isn't it fixed? Why not simply disable griefing of resources and pking and make this game into a cooperative experience?
While it's allowed, it's a feature.
While it's easy to do, it will be extremely common to encounter.

Last edited by KucheKlizma (2018-04-14 19:50:45)

powa · 2018-04-14 20:04:11

KucheKlizma wrote:

Lmao political grief terrorism. You're full of shit.

It's griefing but to try and change the way that things work in the system -- to be contrasted with something like troll griefing, which is griefing to get a quick thrill. Obviously not as bad as real life terrorism or as significant as real life politics. Lots of phrases like "murder" and "raising babies" are just game speak for the version of the concept in game, this is another.

KucheKlizma wrote:

Maybe there's 1-2 delusional people thinking they're doing that, out of 100 that just did it for no particular reason.

There's already postings of around ten towns being decimated due to this. If this continues at even a fraction of the rate, we're talking about potential of a thousand in game mature lives being ended due to this activity. This is actually totally possible from the types of people doing this (they play a LOT and are very experienced, not bored newbs).

KucheKlizma wrote:

People grief because they can. I've griefed, you've griefed, everyone does it at one point or another.
It's easy, why not?

As long as the game provides methods to ruin others game experience, it will continue.

Jason seems to be aware of the current level of griefing and is working on it, but is mostly okay with it. That is assuming no politically motivated griefing. As mentioned above, the activity under discussion can be much bigger. I'd advocate people to not do this, for fear of ruining the game and ruining many peoples' times in the meantime (of course for these reasons you should avoid griefing in general but I don't think such a forum post would discourage troll griefing).

KucheKlizma wrote:

If the developer doesn't change it, it will never EVER stop and no amount of communist propaganda will prevent people from doing it.
It begs the question - why isn't it fixed? Why not simply disable griefing of resources and pking and make this game into a cooperative experience?
While it's allowed, it's a feature.

Not sure how this is communist. I'm just making a forum post. I'm not even a mod, just a regular user. Hopefully it will help keep newbies from leaving and spread the word on this activity. That would be up to them, the players (not decided by some small group).

And we can choose not to take part in these activities. And to fight against it. That's what I'm advocating for. Hopefully people can see that such tactics probably can't work, don't make sense much sense, and are wrong.

fragilityh14 · 2018-04-14 20:40:30

This really doesn't happen to me very often. it seems like it happens to the same people frequently.

There are definitely people on this forum, who based on their posts, seem like they play like complete assholes.

I haven't intentionally griefed in any way. i assume plenty of players never have. The other players are real people, I don't know why I'd do something to intentionally upset or bother them.

Opedoll · 2018-04-14 20:43:54

Hello. I totally agree with you Powa. I personally, have never grief or kill anybody. It never crossed my mind to do so. I hate to ruin other people's experience. Actually maybe I have thought about killing a few people due to them not following the rules. For an example, before the update with the added worms, people kept picking the carrot seed row even after numerous times of me telling them DONT. That's when I want to be stabby. (Plus the place was overpopulated.... even though there were berry bushes NEARBY!! Urggg... calling me an old man lol for getting onto them.) However, besides this, I've never taken on a role of killing or griefing for the sake of other "bad" people's action for a Cause.

I've been playing on this since the first week of March, and saw how this game and community grew. I love reading other people's experience on here on the forums and a few on why people became killers or griefers themselves.

@KucheKlizma
I don't fully understand your reasoning/POV of griefing. Of course there methods and ways to do so. But why do them? I can understand wanting to do so everynow and then, but to do so every single time? Why? I don't mind the griefing or the killing. But when it happens every single time the killer is spawn back to the village they kill again. Over and over till there's nobody left. Maybe they went onto the next village and kill again. Their sole purpose is to kill or grief. I find this sad and pity these players.

Joriom · 2018-04-14 20:44:20

I love how all the credit is given to me. For those who don't yet know: I am the griefer from OP. Yet - I hadly believe its just my work that has brought this up. After wiping out "7" towns on Server1 I switched to Server2 where.... I could not find any towns. Yet, I got killed twice as a kid by a griefer with knife in a willage that hardly had forge
Basically, before I went to kill towns on Server2 - they were mostly already dead. There is no telling how many people were doing it along side me. I'm simply the one who shared his doings and reason for them with the rest - snatching glory even for things I havent made myself.

Still - even if it was just me - Imagine what organized group of people would achieve. What person with bot or hacked client would achieve. If I'm starting such a big unrest already - just wait for those to come.

Also - how is it so when there are griefers all around every day - only few weep in the corner. One known griefer joins and brags about it - entrie community stands on their heads! Funny.

For all those people who bring "decency", "being good human being", and "trust & cooperation" to table - I come from 2 years of work in PR deparment, over 10 years of MMO experience, 5 experience as player, moderator and administrator on Miecraft servers. Over 20 years of my life got "wasted" at games and in online communities. I played, boted, cheated, moderated, developed... You name it, I did it. There is hardly any decency online. Wherever you have uncontrolled group of players (or any other users) - the unspoken rules will be broken. Just look how popular griefing minecraft channels were on youtube. People looking for new servers every day, checking for holes in server permissions and finaly grieffing weeks of work or even shutting down entire servers. OHOL is multiplayer game without any user veryfication or ban system. They're going to come sooner or later. Hell - they are already here. People talk about them. People weep in corners. Community even stopped to care.

What this community was missing was someone to heat up the topic. Someone to take the blame for all the bad things that happen. Someone with name instead of many ethereal, unnamed griefers. Someone who intentonally overstated ammount of griefing he has done just to take blame for everything, even the parts he has not done - because then everyone actually notices how much of it was already around :>

Lexyvil · 2018-04-14 20:49:02

I only had had about five incidents where a killer was on the loose during my 80 hours of playing. That's 5 lives out of maybe on average 200 lives? That's around 2.5%.
Luckily on the runs where a killer is around, some can be town guards who can attempt at taking murderers down.

Last edited by Lexyvil (2018-04-15 04:47:59)

Opedoll · 2018-04-14 20:51:24

Weren't you Turnipseed?? How did you change your name? :0
@Joriom

Last edited by Opedoll (2018-04-14 20:52:31)

Joriom · 2018-04-14 21:10:59

Opedoll wrote:

Weren't you Turnipseed?? How did you change your name? :0
@Joriom

See? It's not just me

Lexyvil wrote:

I only had had about five incidents where a killer was on the loose during my 80 hours of playing. That's 5 lives out of who knows how many, 200 lives? That's 2.5%.
Luckily on those runs where a killer is around, we have a town guard who owns a weapon with a chance take the murderer down.

Did your townguard stop people from replacing all carrots with wheat seeds to waste soil on purpose and starve the village?
Did he stop people from taking carts full of food away from town?
Did he protect tools so they can't be brought outside of the worn and hidden?
Did he protect pies/muttons from being eaten by kids or with just one hunger bar missing, on purpose?
Did he stop people from taking horses and releasing them in wilderness way outside of others vision?

Darcie · 2018-04-14 21:32:40

KucheKlizma wrote:

Lmao political grief terrorism. You're full of shit.
Maybe there's 1-2 delusional people thinking they're doing that, out of 100 that just did it for no particular reason.
People grief because they can. I've griefed, you've griefed, everyone does it at one point or another.
It's easy, why not?

Griefing is not a normal healthy behavior, no matter how you look at it. Griefers are either people who derive pleasure from causing suffering in others, or people who fail to recognize that the other players are real people, with real feelings, or they are individuals unable to experience empathy. Occasionally you might get people who do it because they over value someone who is of one of the above mindsets and foolishly seek to appeal to them. Basically, there isn't a healthy version of intentionally inflicting pain on other people, no matter how you try to spin it. So no, we do not all grief.

That said, this game is one of the most grief proof games I have ever seen. The entire premise of only living 60 minutes kind of removes the worst of it. I just roll my eyes when I see someone trying to be a dick. All see is "oh, there is a broken person, must suck to be them in real life." and then I get reborn in game and that is the end of it.

Last edited by Darcie (2018-04-14 21:38:23)

KucheKlizma · 2018-04-14 21:39:19

powa wrote:

Not sure how this is communist. I'm just making a forum post. I'm not even a mod, just a regular user. Hopefully it will help keep newbies from leaving and spread the word on this activity. That would be up to them, the players (not decided by some small group).
And we can choose not to take part in these activities. And to fight against it. That's what I'm advocating for. Hopefully people can see that such tactics probably can't work, don't make sense much sense, and are wrong.

Majority of players don't read the forums. Doesn't matter what bullshit you type, it's only going to be read by a select amount of people.
Majority of killers are new players that just see a bow/knife on the ground and want to try it out.
People grief resources simply because they don't know better or if they do, because they got angry by something else.
A lot of masacres I see are just one guy trying to drop a knife, accidentally murdering another person, then escalating in a chain reaction of justice killings.

What you're saying is communist propaganda because it's authoritarian - the developer is always right because he has authority and the playerbase is wrong and has to change. This is rotten logic that won't get you anywhere.
The playerbase will not change. The product and it's features can, but the POWER to do so in the developer/modders. Our only power as players is to influence the decisions of feature changes (or make mods).
And you saying that this feature is ok is just plain stupid and wrong.
This is a product -if it end up failing, it's because it was a bad production, you can't blame this on players. Enough said.

Last edited by KucheKlizma (2018-04-14 21:41:59)

Sakkiyn · 2018-04-14 21:41:38

Sociopaths are people who have little to no conscience. They will lie, cheat, steal and manipulate others for their own benefit. They know exactly what they are doing, they just don't care because they don't think that way. If you are naive enough, they will brainwash you into doing exactly what they say and what they want which is the only time a sociopath is truly happy.

Sociopaths can hide this well if you haven't known them for long. They're really nice and charming at first, almost too nice, but it's extremely fake. The niceness will last until a problem occurs in which they are at fault however, you will be manipulated to believe that you are in the wrong. There is no reasoning with this person. Things have to be their way or it's the highway.

They will blame you for hurting them (even if they're the ones who hurt you) or blame the world for all their problems (knowing full well they do shitty things in general). They are compulsive liars and even if they do apologize, it's never genuine. Most are anti social and have few to no friends because most people around them don't want to associate with them. However the sociopath will again tell you that "people hate me for no reason/the world is against me". The only person who will put up with a sociopath is someone who is off their rocker or someone who has absolutely no self respect, or both of those two combined.

These people really exist, and you will not "fix" them by telling them to stop being like that and have a conscience, because they have little or no conscience.

These people are often internet "trolls" because people in their real lives are not fooled by them, they cannot change their appearance and name in real live and pretend to be several people like they do on the anonymous internetZ.

KucheKlizma · 2018-04-14 21:47:40

You don't need to be a sociopath to be a troll. If that were true there'd be an insignificant amount of trolls.

Murdering a person ingame isn't the same thing as murdering people IRL. First one is generally fair game and perfectly fine, second one is morally and ethically wrong and is also against the law.

I'm surprised this even needs to be explained.

Shialac · 2018-04-14 22:00:48

KucheKlizma wrote:

You don't need to be a sociopath to be a troll. If that were true there'd be an insignificant amount of trolls.
Murdering a person ingame isn't the same thing as murdering people IRL. First one is generally fair game and perfectly fine, second one is morally and ethically wrong and is also against the law.
I'm surprised this even needs to be explained.

I think you dont know what this thread is about.

Sakkiyn · 2018-04-14 22:07:44

KucheKlizma wrote:

You don't need to be a sociopath to be a troll. If that were true there'd be an insignificant amount of trolls.
Murdering a person ingame isn't the same thing as murdering people IRL. First one is generally fair game and perfectly fine, second one is morally and ethically wrong and is also against the law.
I'm surprised this even needs to be explained.

You are confusing sociopath with psychopath, a common mistake for those unfamiliar with these terms. Even psychopath's are not all killers, sociopaths like to manipulate others and mess with their minds, not kill people.

Psychopath:

A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.

Psychopaths tend to lack normal human emotions such as guilt. They are also often highly intelligent and skilled at manipulating others.

Also, psychopaths seem to appear normal. You would probably never guess there was something wrong with them.

Note, not all psychopaths are serial killers.

There are a lot more of these people then you realize.

https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-o … sociopaths

I am surprised you make comments as if you are an authority when you do not even seem to have read enough to be well versed with the terminology.

Let us look at the numbers provided here by people who ARE an authority on this subject. 4% of just americans are sociopaths, 325.7 million people as of 2017. That is 13 million sociopaths just in the great U S of A. Are you so certain that is not enogh "trolls" for you? 1% are psychopaths that is 3 million 257 thousand added to the 13 million sociopaths for the population of "trolls" just from america alone.

Last edited by Sakkiyn (2018-04-14 22:18:48)

KucheKlizma · 2018-04-14 22:16:49

My point still stands - you're confusing a pastime to the real world. Your inability to distinguish between the two and your fallacious correlations don't really make me want to elaborate any further.

Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to understand reality. Common symptoms include false beliefs, unclear or confused thinking, hearing voices that others do not, reduced social engagement and emotional expression, and a lack of motivation.

By your logic you're schizophrenic and need to be hospitalized.

powa · 2018-04-14 22:23:52

KucheKlizma wrote:

Majority of players don't read the forums. Doesn't matter what bullshit you type, it's only going to be read by a select amount of people.

I think it's reasonable that a few new players might see this post, even if the majority do not.

And it is the forum users who are more likely to join in on the behavior I'm speaking about. And forum users can help continue the conversation, come up with ideas, etc.

KucheKlizma wrote:

Majority of killers are new players that just see a bow/knife on the ground and want to try it out.
People grief resources simply because they don't know better or if they do, because they got angry by something else.
A lot of masacres I see are just one guy trying to drop a knife, accidentally murdering another person, then escalating in a chain reaction of justice killings.

Yes, the thrust of my argument has nothing to do with these griefs.

KucheKlizma wrote:

What you're saying is communist propaganda because it's authoritarian - the developer is always right because he has authority and the playerbase is wrong and has to change. This is rotten logic that won't get you anywhere.
And you saying that this feature is ok is just plain stupid and wrong.

Oh okay, you think it's authoritarian to believe that the developer should have the final say. The developer has been very active in the community and takes a surprising amount of advice from people he's never met irl into consideration, so his mind is not even close to the only influence on the game design.

Note that I said in my OP that I also believe that griefing is a big problem. I think we should keep bringing up issues like this and work with the developer to help improve the game. And making mods or other games, even by literally forking the github repo, is a great way to contribute to the community.

I think it is wrong to massively grief to the point of forcing the developer to cave to your vision of the game. As I stated in the OP, it seems very clear that the developer is aware of any issues such griefing may supposedly be revealing, so this is really tantamount to objecting to the developer's ability to get the final say.

But if you think that the basic idea of a developer getting the final say over their project is wrong, please elaborate. I think that is an interesting idea and is certainly unusual.

KucheKlizma wrote:

This is a product -if it end up failing, it's because it was a bad production, you can't blame this on players. Enough said.

For one, there's simply too much to do for this single developer. If we can help the atmosphere by preventing as much griefing as possible (like this type of griefing), the developer does not need to spend as much effort on preventing it. Basically, if it isn't broke, it doesn't need fixing. Adding to the problem makes the strain even bigger on the developer.

And generally, believing that the player base has nothing to do with the success of a game is crazy. All of our actions make the game environment what it is. Yes, there will always be negativity, but we can change our ways and speak up against the wrongs. If everyone decided to be assholes, the game would suck. If we all worked on ourselves, the game would improve. The meta of the game is in the balance between good and bad intentions and you get to decide on how you will contribute.

Ka · 2018-04-14 23:05:12

Joriom wrote:

Did your townguard stop people from replacing all carrots with wheat seeds to waste soil on purpose and starve the village?
Did he stop people from taking carts full of food away from town?
Did he protect tools so they can't be brought outside of the worn and hidden?
Did he protect pies/muttons from being eaten by kids or with just one hunger bar missing, on purpose?
Did he stop people from taking horses and releasing them in wilderness way outside of others vision?

Would Jason be able to stop any of those things from happening without compromising other aspects of the game? Hell, would he be able to do anything at all about some of those?
And I know, some things can't be stopped but only punished. Still, he is in no position to put a reliable moderation system in place. He's only one man, who's already working WAY overtime and with no money to spare when the game he spent the last 3 years on still has to come even with its revenue. And even if people volunteered, how could he trust them? How could he check up on them? When even a colossus like Blizzard is struggling heavily with toxicity in Overwatch, how can you expect a lone, week-updating developer to regulate an entire (although small) community?
He IS doing his best. He's giving us all the tools he can, one at a time, to the best of his ability, while not focusing solely on griefing and giving us other content in his updates, because he knows that the game has other issues that threaten its appeal. And as much as I may sound like a broken record, this is supposed to be an unfair game where death is behind the corner at all times, just like real life is and especially was in the times we're experiencing ingame. While he surely wants us to enjoy ourselves when playing, he also needs, as a creator, to preserve the nature of what he's made and the concepts behind it, and part of it is being able to be killed by other players.

That said, you and your fellow on-purpose griefers have blew things way out of proportion. You are making the problem way bigger than it is, and reading about your experiences makes it clear why you do. You are blinded by your misanthropy, talk about threats to come, and make it seem like every asshole would just act like you did, over and over again. Just like Lexyvil, I too had very few encounters with griefers, and I'm starting to think that it could have been you (take it as a singular or as a plural) those times too, going on your little crusade to prove a point that didn't need to be made. I'm fine with the occasional troll or murderer, it creates stories, but you made it so relentless and ever-present like no casual griefer could. Again, you made it more of a problem that it would normally be, and wanting to prepare us for the things that you believe are coming is no excuse for doing so. If it's going to become such a problem, then actions will be taken, but only then. Priority is the keyword: this may be a priority for you, but it's not for Jason, and you're forcefully shoving your opinion down his throat. I know people are assholes on the internet, but if you really believe that then you shouldn't act like one. Else, you're part of the problem, not the solution.

Joriom wrote:

What this community was missing was someone to heat up the topic. Someone to take the blame for all the bad things that happen. Someone with name instead of many ethereal, unnamed griefers. Someone who intentonally overstated ammount of griefing he has done just to take blame for everything, even the parts he has not done - because then everyone actually notices how much of it was already around :>

I hope I'm not alone in feeling like this, but I think you sound maniacal, and I guess that I was spot-on talking about martyrdom. And if you want to bring a topic to the table, you needn't ruin everyone's day to do so. People who care will care, and people who don't will not. You are not a hero shining the light of revelation upon the masses, you are someone with a megaphone that shouts for people to listen to him. All of your experiences mean nothing if you can't win people's hearts with just the reasoning behind your argumentations, and instead just resort to slapping us in the face while stating that you're right.

And to reply to what KucheKlizma said:

KucheKlizma wrote:

People grief because they can. I've griefed, you've griefed, everyone does it at one point or another.
It's easy, why not?

Because I don't take pleasure in hurting others, that's why. Because I know how it feels and I don't want others to experience it. Because I don't want to fuel the fire and spread it further. Because, as I said already, the only way to combat something is going against it, never faltering. And I'm sure that there's many other people who think about this like I do, many of which may just be the players that created your most treasured memories of this game. Even if you simply killed them, laughing at how they wept for their relatives, they were still the ones that made it possible for you to play as you liked, and not get stabbed as a child. The thing is, you don't notice people who don't do bad stuff, because they don't leave a scar. And once you do so yourself, you justify yourself behind a cover made of anonymity and temptations that you label as common to all humans. Sure, maybe we've all desired to stab a bitch in the face a couple times, but that doesn't mean we'd all do it if there were no consequence for us. People have standards, morals, beliefs, and just plain ol' likes and dislikes. Although it may not sound like it (because I'm pissed and generally cold-hearted), I respect your desires and believe it's right to let you be free to enjoy the game as you want. I just don't like it.
And Joriom, too. Please don't think that I lack respect for you; I didn't state it clearly, but I know you are trying to do good and make the game better. You want people to have fun, feel safe and enjoy the game they paid for. You're just giving the impression of not seeing some things that I believe are crucial to this game's wellbeing, and just like you I feel like I have to protect what I love from those who threaten its health. I just do it in a different way, for different reasons, and I hope you'll understand my points and see the right in them, as I do understand yours but see the stain of corruption in them.

(P.S. because this took a long time: guys, please stop talking about sociopathy, schizophrenia and communism. Come on.. And just as a spark before going to bed, why is nobody making the distinction between single-player games like GTA, multiplayer competitive games like WoW, and multiplayer cooperative games like OHOL? That's a pretty important factor when it comes to how you behave ingame)

KucheKlizma · 2018-04-15 00:09:35

The only difference between you and me is that I am able to admit that i've griefed and I don't try to hold a high communist moral ground.

You're just a liar. You lie to yourself and you lie to others. All people grief unintentionally while they are still figuring out the game. It's how it's designed. Saying you've never griefed is a moronic lie.

And about the delusions of grandeur of 2-3 people announcing their griefing on the forums - it's just a raindrop in an ocean. Nobody should care, and people who care have problems understanding how the world works.

If Jason can't figure it out and doesn't fix it, then so be it. Don't push development and game design problems onto the playerbase, unless you're expecting some kind of feedback. We can't fix it. Period.

I'll grief as much as I like to, when and because I like and chose to, for as long as it's an intended game feature. If you chose not to then that's your problem.
And new players will continue their griefing and killing sprees simply because they don't know any better or they're trying out the features; or if they feel aggravated somehow.
Your words fall flat.

Last edited by KucheKlizma (2018-04-15 00:12:15)

Lily · 2018-04-15 00:52:20

It generally isn't considered griefing if you do something accidentally because your a newbie. Also, most people never grief anyone. It is a cooperative game, so most people play it that way, by cooperating.

That said in a game where you can accidentally step on a snake and die, or a bear can run by and eat people, and starvation is fairly common, I don't get too upset if someone causes trouble. It is annoying but this is the type of game where shit happens, so you kind of have to deal with it.

Sakkiyn · 2018-04-15 00:54:21

KucheKlizma wrote:

My point still stands - you're confusing a pastime to the real world. Your inability to distinguish between the two and your fallacious correlations don't really make me want to elaborate any further.
Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to understand reality. Common symptoms include false beliefs, unclear or confused thinking, hearing voices that others do not, reduced social engagement and emotional expression, and a lack of motivation.
By your logic you're schizophrenic and need to be hospitalized.

Yes of course because real life people who play games are fantasy persona's? A person who plays games leaves their personality disorders at the log in screen?

Who said this or any other game is reality? But the people who play games are indeed real live people with corresponding social or mental persona's, both good and bad.

You are the one putting forth skewed logic and attacking other peoples character when your failed logic isn't put up the flag pole and saluted.

Are you a doctor of psychology with the corresponding degree and authority to make such a diagnosis?

This is a forum and the OP has every right to put forth his concern's and opinion's. Nobody has to respond. No one has to read them. Not a single person has to care.
But if you respond and are not a "troll" then try to do so with some semblance of decorum and respect. You are addressing real live people, not fantasy or fictitious persons or non persona gratae. We have as much right to make posts and respond to them as anyone. Your lack of courtesy and respect does not truly deserve a response, if there was a moderator of these forums, I would hope that person would deal with such personal attacks and disregard for societal norms and convention appropriately.

powa · 2018-04-15 03:16:07

KucheKlizma,

I have respawned to many of your points specifically. You have repeated some of your assertions without elaborating on them in any way I have questioned, and yet also contributed more derogatory remarks.

Best of luck to you

fragilityh14 · 2018-04-15 03:17:52

Ka, I also think Joriom sounds totally crazy. I don't understand why you would want to be the problem you are trying to "expose". It really seems like a lot of the people obsessed with griefing being a problem are the ones doing it.

And making mistakes is absolutely not griefing, griefing is intentionally making the game worse for other people.

It's really depressing to me the world view some people on this forum have. I mean, it makes the social experiment aspect of the game interesting, but it's absolutely chilling. I'm so peaceable in this game.

Though I will say, I feel like i rarely see griefing, yet a lot of camps inexplicably collapse for reasons that are unclear to me, but it seems mostly like people just failing to do any work.

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On grief terrorism, and to new players recently murdered/griefed

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