a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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You can cycle through what you have previously said by pressing up when you open the chat box, repeating phrases. So i wouldn't necessarily say she is a bot because of the behaviour.
Also useful for running around town asking for certain tools.
Other chat things are you can use one hand to chat and still move around so if you are good with typing you could almost communicate while doing stuff.
It really just sounds like someone who has chosen to do some weird things just to be noticed.
Shure you can not control the actions of other players.. But Jason as the Designer and Developer of the game can design the game in a way to give guidelines/options and also can control the gameflow like that. And this forum is used to communicate with him.
If we want to experience a game where we are successfully climbing a technology tree as a soiciety together. Than we dont need guns or ways to kill each other. We need ways to organize and communicate in a better way than chat bubbles. So we can manage a bigger group of people to work together... Cheers
You want to climb the tech tree as a society that overall is "your" goal one you set for yourself and hope others have as well. Doesn't mean it's exactly the same for other players, who may for example have already achieved top tier tech without you. Should these players just leave the game because they have reached your end goal. I would be a bit sad if they did, because then how would other players hope to reach that goal, when all you get is new players or even worse have no one to play with.
I agree with you that we don't need more ways to kill each other, but that is only how I feel about it because of the current state the game. If families were able to thrive in an almost unlimited way without any problems finding food, water and clothing then I might change my mind. This is what seemed like the case in this example, players having everything they needed and allowing themselves to live out some crazy fantasy. It's annoying because it is at the expense of other players who have worked hard to make sure they have those things, but I feel they also add to the liveliness and replayability of the game.
I tend to view this game as a social experiment of sorts, one where you have to get multiple people working together to try and better society. Doing this while trying to get those who just want to RP, kill everyone or just play selfishly adds depth to it. If we get are forced on to a track without any options what do we have as a player wants we reach the end? Do we just continue to hope Jason adds more content to the game or do we as players try to create our own game from the structure he has given us? This is the way a lot of game tend to fall end no new content and players leaving because they have done everything they can. By leaving the game open to being modded by other people he allows for it to have a continued lifespan like skyrim and other games do.
The one thing in this game you must remember is that you can't control the actions of other players in this game. If you sit there thinking you all have the same goal you are just more likely to get frustrated by others. After all this is a online multiplayer game and there is no real set long term goal, other then the ones you set for yourself.
In this scenario most of them must of felt comfortable with the amount of food and clothing they had, even probably felt there was nothing for them to do. So who cares if they want to have a bit of fun carrying out a war like scenario. You could of even joined them and just created a spot where you would heal both sides or even just the innocent bystanders that got hurt creating a story of your own rather then falling into just production. It will let you enjoy the game for longer anyway.
I'm just imagining gangs of men wearing wigs and aprons impersonating mothers so that they can aide in population control without having to stab babies - who confusingly wonder why they are starving while being held by a woman whose hair isn't grey.
This got me so good man, fully dressed up men in a locked room pretending to be nursing what a way to control population. Even just mother's who are in on it who don't wanna have to deal with them. Only to then have some sort of reveal when it comes down to the last of the children and have them all freak out. Realise the madness they have gotten themselves into. Bloody Brilliant.
I would so be for wigs, though more like some cool cosmetic and obviously different to the base hairstyles (For now obvious reasons). Hopefully Jason can figure out how to make it work while covering the old hairstyle earlier rather then later so when we reach the future tech the hair styles can get even more craaazy.
My fave today was I had a total of seven boys in a row, they all worked hard, but man was it disheartening. One of them had even found a town so we were deciding on whether or not to move. Then I realised that there was no food on the ground and there I was frantically running around only to see when I died that all of it had been packed up in the cart for the move to the town.
I feel a lot of the problem is more player population then actually chance, I mean maybe if the chances of a female were higher when at much lower server populations it would be nice otherwise it will forever be spawning into lost and forgotten towns, with clutter everywhere and random missing plants.
Bears as a whole can be annoying to deal with, but you can lead them away or try and be prepared before hand. This also means you can just leave the baby to die to the bear as well, or raise the child and then shoot them later since you have a bow.
The caves being there are always seen as a threat. They are no different to setting up in an area with boars, snakes or wolves. You have to take these into account when you first start setting up and prepare for them. The fact that a baby can do it or an adult can doesn't change to much since it will be annoying regardless of age, at least with the baby you haven't wasted time on raising them.
The mums who forget you peps are probably lagging. I know I have had it happen a few times when running around that I don't even see the child drop just hear them crying.
Other then Joriom I wonder how many others have made a game out of killing towns and villages, I mean most will be small families so they only kill a few people each time, but does that mean much when players can find it relatively easy to develop into later stages in the game and even make weapons. A lot of that time is mainly spent searching for the resources. Yet we have so many tools now to know about a single killer that it almost seems like it shouldn't be much of an issue anymore.
I mean going into the game you should know that most players will be seen as a threat if they come into a farm with a weapon. Yet people aren't aware enough of this, but how would a karma system change that. All of a sudden you see someone evil and you sit their trying to create a weapon before them, like it sounds a bit ridiculous. You have as much ability to kill them as they do you.
Should we just let our kids go expecting them to do what we tell them and strangers walk onto the farm, even real life children don't always listen to their parents. Let alone adult players having to listen to others.
I personally don't see it as a huge problem because of how easy it is to start up a small farm stead given the right area, along with the stats given by Jason. 2% of all deaths caused by other players is better than a combat game, like Rust where most death will be by other players. Even the fact that the map wipes are interesting because why put them there unless players were already not finding the day old ruins of farms previously created, The ruins people actually spawned on tended to be farms they just recently had died, because there was still enough resources there. Older ones tended to be long dead and mostly infertile just mainly taking up space on the map never to be found again.
Joriom wrote:Well, "conscience" is kind of exotic thing for me. Thats what weak use. I tend to min/max stuff out of games but out of rl too. I optimized fun and feelings out of my equations old time ago. Both virtually and irl.
This strikes me as an incredibly sad statement. But also, what utility are you gaining from playing OHOL if it's not for fun?
Some people enjoy figuring out a games mechanics and making the most efficient decisions possible. Take for example factorio.
I agree with the idea behind that a females have that strength of child spawning, along with what he is saying i wouldn't take it to seriously this is Joriom we are talking about . Nice guide btw, always gotta think of those three things that need rope, though what happened to clothing is it not that strong as I believe in conserving food?
Though I do wonder about saving children in the earllier stages if it is the case that these are the only children you will have the life, which I have had happen to me before along with happen to other females in a village. I have even had no children before. The fact that it revolves around server population always scares me. There is no guarantee you will have another child. Even in the suggestions that say child birth should be tied to some action. This doesn't guarantee that either since most likely another village is thriving when you don't spawn any children.
Rebel wrote:There are two reasons why a village dies
1: No females
Only keeping female kids fixes number 1
How does killing a boy increase the number of females? You don't spawn more children just because you kill them do you? That would be weird.
This actually is the case, since births are based around the amount of people wanting to spawn into the game. So if you just ran off as a baby enough because you saw a nice village you could respawn there. I forget what the mechanics are as far as spawning in as a Eve or baby. I think it had something to do with the amount of resources in the area.
I've been killed for being a boy a total of one time. I've had well over 500 lives as well, so that tells you that it's a non-issue.
That's nothing more then an anecdote, we don't always get given the reason why we are left to die by our mothers, but I have had it happen more then once in the lives i've had. It could be a server based issue. I usually find it occurs with newer players, or players who have started working on an abandoned town they tend to say this a fair amount. It's interesting cause the issues stems from the fact that there is a big likelihood the boy you let die will just be reborn to your town again. I know I have had it happen where i died in a town only to respawn back and allowed to live because I was now female. I have had this happen more then once as well, but like I said this is an anecdote. It would be nice if we could get some of the numbers behind it.
A good idea came up in another thread where the presence of men increase the birthrate, meaning the more men the more babies women can have, giving a reason to keep boys and girls.
If generations were allowed to continue through fathers, by allowing a male within a certain proximity of a female to become the father of that child, it would make for interesting gameplay since males could continue a generation. Along with being able to travel since they would not have the burden of having children. It would also allow for the linking of generations and families. I don't feel we need an increase in birthrate with males around because birthrate seems to be dictated by the amount of players wanting to join into the game. A questions that come to mind about males having an effect on birthrates are. What occurs though if there is seperate villages with the same amount of males to females or with less people in it then another? Do these rules have to apply to an Eve? Because if they do it would make creating new settlements very difficult when there are other ones already built.
Maybe you can only eat people who are the right age.
I agree with Goliath, that the mechanic is broken. If you happen to kill a so-called griefer and they return to the village they can just kill you again and again as long as you have the village going. The reincarnation mechanic is a negative for both raiding, village creation and war. This is due to the fact that if you spawn in amongst the enemy nothing stops you from becoming trying to kill them from the inside.
Goliath coming from Gmod probably respects the idea of rp death and that if you were killed by someone it is part of the game and you should move on, cause it happens. Yet even though his justification for killing the "old hag" is weak, you gotta look past it guys. The resources in this game are limited and people will eventually fight over them because they cross into each others borders. Even carrots in this case could be seen as valuable if they were low on seeds.
Goliath though you gotta realise as well that your aim to create a raiding village also crosses a line, if you constantly try to create a raiding village then you are also carryiing on previous infomation. Along with carrying on crafting recipes and rules that you may have created in previous lives so its more of a question on where each person chooses this line is. Like you said maybe during a war or raid you don't allow any new children to be born into the village as a rule you create for wartime. Maybe Jason makes it so on death you are forced onto another server, but eventually after enough deaths they may still come back wanting revenge. It is an interesting issue to think about dealing with.
I feel that calling someone a griefer for killing people in this game is ridicoulous, the fact that you can respawn instantly and have infinite lives, means you can keep coming back with no permanent effects on the land you came from, maybe you find it again maybe you don't but it will still be there waiting for someone to find it. I feel the true griefer within this game is those that permanently destroy resources making it impossible for a town to keep going or start up again.
Goliath wrote:I have no clue why people kill boys.
I do. I have seen or played several games where a village was nothing but men and the village either dies out there or a lucky eve finds her way there.
I still remember the game where I was an Eve and stumbled on an advanced village of only 3 men. They let me and my kids inherit their town, but they wouldn't talk to me. It was creepy and in retrospect could tell that they were angry that their line had died out, but they also didn't want their work to go to waste.
I also remember the village where I was the last male. I was pretty depressing. I ended up just practicing my skills until I died.
I have been in this situation many times but it is mainly because the last females either dies for dumb reasons, or they never have any children. Which I have had happen on multiple occasions, both while being a male and the female in that situation. You sometimes just can't help it, we could never be sure if the people who died as children actually would respawn there or not. It's strange though that they wouldn't talk maybe that was just how they were before you turned up, trying to make sure there would be enough supplies left behind.
It would be preferably in most cases to have someone who know what they are doing take care of the farm, and not have others help them with it. This is because for one you can manage seeds and carrots a lot easier and if you just use the help for watering well an advanced enough society will have mutiple water tools which will make it possible to water large areas of carrots at a time. This way you can allow the newer players to mess with things like pies, metal and wood and learn about the limitations of these types of things in a relaxed enviroment. The civilisations I see fall tend to be when everyone goes on to say I know how to farm and proceeds to constantly pick and water all the carrots with no management of them.
It would be better for newer players to not have to worry about farming to much, but more about how to explore, hunt and craft clothing. This would allow for increases in population because new players know where to find food when it starts to become difficult, have extra time to search for that food and the farmer/s to do their job.
Trading and ownership, will probably become a larger part of the game as the civilisations begin to survive for longer, along with the ability to have set up towns and valuable resources, some having more then others and wanting to trade for such things. Yet since you can keep travelling further and further away from a settlement and find a huge set of resources again trade and ownership don't mean a lot. You would honestly be better off just sharing it continuously until you can get a good family group going and can keep it up over mutiple generations.
IMO wells should be significantly better than ponds. Just increase construction cost if balance is the problem. Or maybe add some maintenance cost, like needing to use a staunching kit to turn a dry well into a full one.
They are significantly better you can place them where you want and they store more water,. Along with creating an entirely new regenerating water source. It's just if you want to have them in the village you need someone to manage it. At the very least they are now no longer permanently useless.
One problem I do have is the fact the shallow well keeps the charges it has when it becomes a deep well. It doesn't suddenly gain 7 charges like it does when you create the shallow well, which is kind of annoying seeing as it requires some resources, but probably not as valuable as a bunch of stones.
Rope, give people the ability to tie someone up, even if you gotta stun them first. Yes it is another way to die, but you can also feed that person keep them alive and turn them into an adult version of a baby until you find a reason to free them, or someone else does. This means you could hold trials on those near where the murder happened and then act accordingly, along with grief trollers by keeping them locked in some where, where they are unable to do anything to anyone else until they die.
This has two good things about it. Others who know you in the village to be good and kind can free you, along with making it so you won't have instantly died, if some troll/griefer does choose to do this to you.
Griefing I guess/ Annoyances I have had.
The messy tool user, someone who just takes your tools uses them and leaves them where ever they want and forgetting about them. Not technically stealing but annoying all the same.
Those who choose to listen make you go to the effort of setting up something for them to teach them then proceeding to just ignore you and everything you do and say, just to make you waste time.
I feel it will be represented by some sort of milestone tool. Similar to how a blacksmith hammer lets you create all the tools you need. The ability to communicate like you said may be just the laptop or phone and its ability to communicate based around other structures that you need to create. So you may make something that looks like a touchscreen phone straight up but have to give it this ability to communicate by building towers and sending that satillite to space.
This would be looking at advancement more through the use of co-ordination rather than resources. Which honestly would make the game easy to those who communicate through other means, but would fit more with the tone of game, I feel.
Maybe though the pace will be slowed down, because we have to remember easy mode is on with the food consumption bonus and really only one path for agriculture. One possibility is that there will be extra steps to domestication of food, but more varieties of food in the different enviroments.
Sadly it's not easy to teach them a lesson before you kill them since typing something out and killing them results in them only seeing it for a split second. Ownership works really well in long term games, where you will spawn back into an area, but then would you prefer it come down to infighting between people because one person chose to pick up all the carrots move them behind their locked door and watch as you all died.
It would only change it from them running away to another area to them hiding stuff behind their ownership, resulting in you needing to kill them to get it. This game punishes other quite harshly for the actions of others, drain a well no water from it for 10 years, eat all the carrots and run out of seeds. The ability to kill people is within the game and I'm pretty sure people will agree with you for doing it, if you have enough reason.
Other advice. I personally wanna give.
Not only will the soil disappear but seeded carrots disappear as well so you lose 10 seeds and the soil. Along with that you need a whole berry bush now for a bowl of berries and not only four.
Ask if you can work on the farm don't just assume, if they haven't given you a job don't mess with the guy who is creating your food, otherwise you are very likely to die. Through murder or lack of food in future. You are better off hunting rabbits no body will stop you and you will learn where berry bushes are along with what the area is like around you.
Carry some food with you, even if you are just a child carry that berry and use the time while you wait til it drains so you can fill youself as much as possible to explore.
You should look at keeping as many children as you can clothe, if you can't clothe them they will be a huge drain on your food supply.
Learn how to make the 3 basic rope tools at the beginning, an axe, fire bow drill and a snare. If you have these its easy to sustain yourself and get fully kitted along with caring for others. BUT:
Don't just aim for backpacks after hunting rabbits, they are such a waste in an expanding population with a lack of clothing. Better off giving people pants, and a hat. You will save a tonne of food and will get more hunters with it who wil bring back even more food and fur.
It's like you need a noob area in town where the population is constantly growing and waning and then all the experienced players are working together on the outside to actually keep themselves and the noobs in the middle alive.
It'd be an interesting mechanic if it worked this way domestic bushes constanly regrow like wild until you take the last berry away, which is done when getting a bowl of berries. So it wouldn't mess you up as much if someone just ate a couple berries off your domestic bush.
Maybe in the future (middle age) we ge a system to fight and defend. Until that point, griefers should be able to fuck uf towns.
Its part of the game, in the reality, society is limited to the acts of a few assholes, in the game should be the same. This game is a reflection of the reality, and the reality is full of morons and douchebags, messing with the worll, letting people die, etc...
To me, it sounds you want to play in the paradise, in a world where everybody good, and trolls/assholes didnt exist. I dont like them, but they are a part of the game.
I agree, that for a new Eve in a new area it should be seen as a paradise and that eventually the people who come in a join should be What really needs to happens is means by which you can just stop a character that is simple, like the idea on reddit with hitting someone with a stump or club that stuns them. Then even tie them up so that they are unable to interact with objects and tie them up again to prevent them from moving. This way you keep them in the game and they are forced to quit out if they want to start again, rather then just killing them and them being able to instant respawn.
As people have said clothing will help with the food problem, you should always look to clothe yourself even if it means less watering supplies. Supporting mutiple people in a village can only occur when they can be clothed and food shouldn't so much be a limit as the amount of clothing in your village is I feel. The fact clothing also disappears when you die on some plots is also annoying and would reduce the need for it if it just stayed around. doesn't help this either. Maybe it would just help if you were able to undo a lot of actions as well, eg make rope back in to thread again.
As far as dealing with people who just want to eat carrots and do nothing, killing them seems to be the best answer, like back then if people were dumb and mistakes meant the death of the whole village banishment, it's a great way to enforce rules right? If they get frustrated and bored because they keep being killed maybe they will put in a little effort to figure out how to start their own farms and learn why they were being killed in the first place.
I've found that clothes go missing when some one dies in the middle of a big farm, I even checked around the edges and could not find any of them. Is there a limit on how far these items could travel before the game goes nope they gone now.