a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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How do you stop old people from offering their bodies up just before they die? "Here kid, I don't have much time left... Have a bite"
There is already a 1/2 hunger server. What is the advantage to this 1/3 server?
It is probably being overstated, but you might just be lucky. Recognize that there is a distribution of griefer experiences. In my ~60 games I have been griefed(witnessed mass murder) 3 times, in your ~50 games it was 0 times, likely some of those complaining have had a particularly bad stretch of recent games.
Turned of my PC in a rush last night. Turned it back on and saw this:
You died
Age: 1035 Years
Cause: Connection Lost[Ok]
A similar thing happens when you watch the playback of a game. My guess is that it just records the time at your birth, and when displaying your age it just does the math using the current time.
If this works, its genius. Well done. Going to test it out in the next sheep-tech ready civ I spawn into.
Neither of those are PERMANENT damage. Permanent means non-reversible. If you drain a pond completely and the goose leaves, that goose will NEVER come back. If you hunt a non-family rabbit, the hole will remain empty FOREVER.
With milkweed, I could repopulate an entire area using just one seed. In fact, a couple of my lives have consisted of taking one or two seeds and turning it into a large field of milkweed. Ponds are similar.
I'm not advocating that we should not teach when to pick milkweed, only that it is less important than the rabbit problem, or the tree problem because it is reversible.
The Three Laws are outdated. Milkweed is now very renewable with easy compost, and drying ponds isn't really a problem (it's not permanent damage), unless it has a goose. Family animals is still important though. I'd add don't chop down maple trees, and yeah carrots is important, but not super important.
If you truly think the game is fundamentally not fun, and you have no interest in doing any "homework" in, or out of game to improve, then I submit that this is not the game for you.
You never have to use outside resources to learn the game. Learning from other players (and teaching other players) is a large part of the game, and for me, one of the most enjoyable.
You could give men slightly larger hunger bars.
Shooting something with a bow is a crafting recipe like anything else. Therefore in order to shoot something you must be one tile away.
Bears move in predictable patterns. They stand still and target someone, then charge in their direction in a single movement.
You can very easily dodge a bear if you stand still when it is still, and then move, even just one tile, when it charges.
To shoot a bear, hold the bow and arrow and wait for it to charge. After it moves sidestep one or two tiles. As soon as it comes to a stop right click it to shoot it, and then move away.
You need three shots to kill it. Good luck.
As one of the more experienced players, I thought I'd make this post to cover my thoughts on sheep raising. This is not a guide so much as a loose collection of ideas, but I am open to feedback and revision.
-------------------------------- BUILDING A PEN --------------------------------
One of the challenges of sheep raising is that it is basically Tile Management Simulator 2018.
Each adult sheep occupies one tile, and produces multiple baby sheep which each occupy one tile. When you shear an adult sheep, you need to take its fleece and place it in an unoccupied tile. The end result is that an adult sheep takes up many more tiles than just one, and in my experience should be treated as though it is a three-tile object.
I would recommend aiming for a 3x3 interior to the pen. This leaves room for two adult sheep, a single basket, one trash pit, and a little bit of breathing room. It is also a good target because it is achievable (if difficult) within a single lifetime, especially if you recruit one helper (children are a good target).
An essential aspect to the pen is an airlock. Or a sheeplock in this case. Basically, once you have your 3x3 interior pen, build a 1x1 interior on one of the sides, and use it when entering the pen. Note that you seem to only be able to open east-west fences, so build your airlock on the top or the bottom.
Try to build the pen in a clear area that is close to the rest of civilization, but not on top of it, and has good access to maple trees. It may be the case that building the pen is a multi-generational endeavor, and that is fine.
To make things more efficient, if you find a large stand of maple trees you can bring the adze with you to reduce the number of trips you have to take (carrying a fence kit is twice as efficient as carrying one maple branch), but is risky because you might lose the adze, or you might die without telling someone where you put it and lose it for the whole civilization.
Each fence takes two long straight shafts, so my ideal 3x3 interior with an airlock pen takes 42 long straight shafts. That's a lot of maple trees. Consider though, that reducing to a 3x2 only saves you 4 long straight shafts. You can also reuse fences from other fence-related construction projects if you find them. Just hit them with the shovel.
Some tips to make pen building easier for the next generations:
Early tech: Harvest branches from maple trees whenever you see them and leave them beside the tree.
Fire tech: Try to use non-maple branches for kindling if easy (don't run across the map, but grab yew or curved if they are available)
Steel tech: Never chop down a maple tree unless it is directly in the way of something you are building. Go to the swamp and swing away you maniac.
-------------------------------- GETTING SHEEP --------------------------------
This is fairly simple, and so I don't have many thoughts on it. Mark your home before you go on a long expedition.
-------------------------------- TILE MANAGEMENT SIMULATOR 2018 --------------------------------
Once you have your sheep you can begin to play Tile Management Simulator 2018. If you have high latency, raising sheep will not be a fun time. I measure 8 clicks just to enter the pen through the sheeplock with a held item.
Raising sheep can be dangerous. Tile overcrowding is a thing if you aren't careful and is very deadly. If nobody is around to get you out you will slowly starve to death. That is why I recommend having one tile in the pen be a trash pit. This pit should only be used for absolute emergencies, because once it is filled it cannot be removed, and real estate is limited inside the pen.
In addition to the trash pit, I recommend that you keep one basket in the pen containing shears, a drop spindle, and knitting needles. That way the wool processing can all happen in one place, and making a sweater doesn't require >50 clicks.
Your 3x3 pen should support 2 sheep. More will cause overcrowding, and also, since wool production is not tied to number of sheep, but to amount of berry bushes, and your patience with the sheeplock, more sheep does not equal more wool. Two is good because it provides some redundancy in case one escapes (kill it with a knife before it eats the carrots), and I like to think it gives the other one some company to make them feel better about all their dead sheep children surrounding them.
Speaking of dead sheep children, they do decompose, so don't spam them in the trash.
A necessity for dealing with sheep is having a backpack. Your backpack should contain at least one food item (ideally pie), and at least one empty space (ideally two). You can use the empty space to temporarily store dead sheep children to allow you to escape if the pen fills up while inside (without having to waste the trash pit), and its always good to have food handy.
When entering and exiting, if you leave an item in the empty tile in the sheeplock (works perfectly if you use the item you are trying to bring in or out) the sheep physically cannot enter the sheeplock. You can swap the inside long shaft with the item you want to bring in (or out), and the sheep will still not be able to enter, and you have your item.
Don't leave sheep-unrelated items inside the pen. If you have an empty bowl, place it in your backpack when you leave. If you upgrade your crappy rabbit shirt to a fancy wool shirt, take your rabbit shirt out when you leave.
Something that I have yet to investigate, but it seems that when you shear a sheep, but before you remove the fleece, the sheep itself cannot move. This opens an opportunity to skip the sheeplock and efficiently move many items into and out of the pen, if all sheep are shorn.
-------------------------------- CONCLUSION --------------------------------
Wow I did not expect this post to go on for so long. If you read it all the way to the end, congratulations. You get a cookie. Just contact me when civilization has advanced far enough for cookies to be possible.
If you have feedback or suggestions, or desire clarification I'd love to hear it. Thanks all, and let's get this wool train going!
A related point: Don't overfarm carrots!
This is another problem of advanced civs. Everyone has clothes, so needs to eat half as often, but farming habits are not changed. The result? Carrots overflowing the baskets and filling every tile around the farm for miles. Or, even worse, entire fields of carrots going to seed and eating all the soil.
If you have a carrot surplus, don't grow more carrots.
Milkweed stumps disappear if you harvest when not fruiting. If you want to clear stumps, harvest it when not fruiting and wait.
Has the server been shut down with the latest update? I get an ominous message when I try to connect.
A question about the animals law. Is this only for rabbits and mouflon? Because I don't recall ever seeing a goose baby or goose family. Do geese respawn at all?
A related question:
Do milkweed plants that have been incorrectly harvested ever go away? Or are we stuck with permanent reminders of our failure as a species?
I don't think addressing the trolls directly with gameplay changes and so on makes sense.
But I do think there's room to play with how text/speech is presented. It might be worth exploring yelling, perhaps it costs hunger boxes?
Hate to nitpick, but this sounds like a contradiction to me.
As far as actual criticism goes, I think it has a couple issues.
If your volume radius is purely dependent on age it has the potential in a busy town to occupy a lot of screen space if the corners of your screen are constantly occupied by other people's convos. And that is assuming only legitimate use (not spammers).
However you could reduce the problem by having it be optional and cost hunger as you suggested. But then this means adding additional controls. Jason seems to be a fan of having very limited controls and interactions so I'm not sure he would be a fan of this idea.
There is also the aspect that difficult communication is a core feature of the game (I'd argue it's more important than trolls), that's why you start with one letter as a baby.
I don't hate the idea but I think we have better options for dealing with trolls than this one.
For pvp imagine castle sieges where you not only interact with enemy players but with the environment (something like cutting off their food and fire supply).
Ok, that actually sounds like it could be good. I still think it would be improved by the bleeding out mechanic.
In any case, I think we should try to merge this thread with Laura's Assholes thread as we are basically talking about the same things.
It seems this thread and my own Mass Murderer Solutions thread are now talking about the same thing.
It seems like there are three feature ideas to combat mass murderers.
1: Subdue them, non-lethal, and non-permanent. Potentially requires rope. Potentially requires multiple people (like a vote)
2: Have murder give off a blood-curdling scream so everyone knows, even off-screen. Potentially extend to all violent deaths
3: Have a bleeding-out/dying mechanic when someone shoots you with a bow, or knifes you. This would work like existing mechanics for the wolf and bear. Potentially allow the murderee to say something. Potentially add items to save someone who is bleeding out
Of course there is one more idea that has been suggested:
4: Git gud, Organize your community with a town guard, have many weapons around to stop murderers (how do you stop a bad guy with a bow? a good guy with a bow!), create secret weapon stashes etc.
I have never been born into a "city" or anything that had the resources to support a "town guard" or "law enforcement" as some have been mentioning on this thread. Do such places exist in game? Or are those comments speaking generally about the future where we may have enough resources to support a town guard?
My concern when making the post was both short term and long term.
Short term, I am concerned that a single villager was able to murder so many people (potentially the entire village of ~8 people) all by themselves. I really just don't think this should be possible. However, I recognize that this point is subjective.
Long term, I hear people talking about wars between factions, assaults on nearby competition, etc etc. I'm not entirely sure that this game is very well suited for that kind of complicated combat. I could be wrong about this obviously, but the game does have a very simple "interact with the world" mechanic. Not sure how well this would lend to warfare. I'm picturing just
spam click fest + someone has higher ping = war,
and for me personally I don't find that very appealing.
I think the previously mentioned bleeding out mechanic would resolve most of the short term problem that I am concerned with, and potentially adding a more complicated bandage/first-aid system as others have mentioned would help make the long-term problem more interesting.
At the same time, I really am a fan of the insta-death + black screen combo for all other parts of the game. Part of the beauty of the game is that it is punishing, which leads me at a loss of what to do. In any case, hopefully our overlord is aware of these concerns and has a plan for us all.
I really like your idea Norgg. One of the difficulties with dealing with pkers is "death by bow" looks exactly the same as "death by forgetting to eat a carrot". I'm not sure how many people in my village even knew what was going on.
Through some stroke of luck I managed to be born into the same civilization four times in a row (3 full lives, and as you will see soon, 1 short life).
Population hovered around 8 people most of the time I was there.
I watched and helped the town grow for three and a half hours, expecting each life to be the last, and being pleasantly surprised when I was reborn.
In my first life I raised two kids to adulthood and helped another villager smith half the steel tools.
In my second life I finished off the steel tools and made two handcarts.
In my third life I raised three kids and helped start and teach others how to build a pen for containing sheep.
All the while my fellow villagers and I manned the increasingly busy carrot farm, taught those less experienced among us, and generally were very productive.
In my fourth life I was once again pleasantly surprised to be reborn into the same civilization. I was born to a carrot mother and watched as the rules were stated over and over. Never eat carrots from the bottom row, they are for seeding.
As I was a baby, a young (grown) girl runs up and eats a carrot. The ever-watchful carrot guardian scolds them ("you fucker") and chases them around. I then watch as the young girl picks up a bow and an arrow and starts running around. She is not yet old enough to shoot. I start getting worried but I don't have the letters to communicate my fears.
I grow up into a young girl and keep an eye on the girl with the bow and arrow. Suddenly I see a villager die, and the girl is holding only a bow.
Not good.
I run around desperately looking for a knife to kill her, but I see her casually kill another carrot farmer. I run over to where the sheep pen is being built and say
"the girl with the bow is a murderer"
"kill her with the knife"
As I complete my warning the girl runs over. She clearly saw what I said. I make a dash, and she pursues.
I then get the classic message:
YOU DIED
AGE: 13 YEARS
CAUSE: KILLED BY BOW AND ARROW
I have every reason to believe that this person killed everyone in the village, or at least killed enough people to wipe out the entire civilization (leaving only men or elderly or something). Especially considering that I don't believe we had another weapon on hand.
I'm not sure what I'm looking for really, I have never experienced anything like this on any other playthroughs (I have probably around 20 hours in the game).
Has this happened to any of you guys before?
Have any of you seen this about to happen and stopped it?
What can I do to stop this in the future?
I have killed one. All my kids were dead and I wanted to go out with a bang. Takes 3 arrows, and as far as I'm aware, gives no loot (Except the arrows).
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