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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 2020-02-27 03:54:34

Spoonwood
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Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

The most recent change get described as follows:

"Boiling the frog: Eating bonus down to 3 (was 4), but using curve to set bonus to 4 for Eve and first few generations. foodScaleFactor constant, for now."

In other words, you deserve to die slowly and painfully without even realizing that you will die.

The hour also where players were forced into starvation conditions without any sort of warning whatsoever goes along those lines also.

To say that that this comes from hatred of players does not seem an exaggeration.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-02-27 03:54:51)

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#2 2020-02-27 04:02:55

MrGold
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From: Space
Registered: 2019-11-18
Posts: 136

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Show hate until he listens to the players


Im Mr.Gold I /hmph

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#3 2020-02-27 04:14:44

Keyin
Member
Registered: 2019-05-09
Posts: 257

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Frankly I'd be happy to go back to +2 instead of +4.

That's where we were before steampocalypse 2.0 if I am remembering correctly.

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#4 2020-02-27 04:17:45

Wuatduhf
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Registered: 2018-11-30
Posts: 406

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Spoonwood wrote:

Boiling the frog


die slowly and painfully without even realizing

zz.jpg


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#5 2020-02-27 04:29:07

Coconut Fruit
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Registered: 2019-08-16
Posts: 825

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

I'd be happy to go back to +2 bonus too. No idea why we stayed with +4 for so long. It's too easy.
I don't know why you made this topic Spoonwood. It always been +2 and it was good.


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#6 2020-02-27 04:31:24

Spoonwood
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Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

"The boiling frog is a fable describing a frog being slowly boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is put suddenly into boiling water, it will jump out, but if the frog is put in tepid water which is then brought to a boil slowly, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to or be aware of sinister threats that arise gradually rather than suddenly. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

So, what I wrote above stands.

Also, he's content to compare his players to hypothetical frog(s), instead of considering them as human beings.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-02-27 04:43:25)

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#7 2020-02-27 04:32:39

Spoonwood
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Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Coconut Fruit wrote:

I'd be happy to go back to +2 bonus too. No idea why we stayed with +4 for so long. It's too easy.
I don't know why you made this topic Spoonwood. It always been +2 and it was good.

Take a look at the other changes with respect to food in dev-changes also.

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#8 2020-02-27 15:42:16

Lava
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Registered: 2019-07-20
Posts: 339

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Hundred percent agree. He doesn’t add any content but even more restrictions. Horrible Dev that doesn’t listen to the community at all except people in his secret forums that also don’t play the game ???

Last edited by Lava (2020-02-27 15:42:34)

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#9 2020-02-27 18:44:13

FishRfriendsnotfood
Banned
Registered: 2018-06-17
Posts: 158

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

That awkward moment you don't play the game yet want to make irrelevant comments on the forum of the game you don't play.

Find a new hobby spoon, you're tired.


I'm fish, deal with it or don't, idgaf

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#10 2020-02-27 19:18:50

Spoonwood
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Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Fish, I played yesterday on bigserver2... from a tutorial area.  I didn't name myself, but this is my hash: 9a0589cb673446fd534812d43cde1913f30b256a if unnamed Eves around the tutorial areas register in the logs and you want to confirm once/if the relevant logs are out.

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#11 2020-02-27 20:32:26

wondible
Member
Registered: 2018-04-19
Posts: 847

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Spoonwood wrote:

Fish, I played yesterday on bigserver2... from a tutorial area.  I didn't name myself, but this is my hash: 9a0589cb673446fd534812d43cde1913f30b256a if unnamed Eves around the tutorial areas register in the logs and you want to confirm once/if the relevant logs are out.

Generally no. There is some rare condition, perhaps twins, that causes the odd eve to be recorded, which handily reveals the tutorial location.


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#12 2020-02-28 06:11:59

pein
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Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,293

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

its way too easy anyway

i mean you can feed a whole town alone
it doesn't require any type of work for others


https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7986 livestock pens 4.0
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4411 maxi guide

Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.

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#13 2020-02-28 12:52:45

sigmen4020
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Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 849

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Spoonwood wrote:

"Boiling the frog: Eating bonus down to 3 (was 4), but using curve to set bonus to 4 for Eve and first few generations. foodScaleFactor constant, for now."

Foodscaling nonsense is gone, but [GASP] the food bonus will be nerfed from 4 to 3. I don't know how the game can possibly survive such a drastic change.


For the time being, I think we have enough content.

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#14 2020-02-28 15:31:22

Spoonwood
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Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Also, 'experimenting' on people without their consent isn't ethical.  It wasn't ethical to change game conditions for the recent hour where there was a rather low amount of pips from food.

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#15 2020-02-28 15:48:05

Wuatduhf
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Registered: 2018-11-30
Posts: 406

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Spoonwood wrote:

Also, 'experimenting' on people without their consent isn't ethical.  It wasn't ethical to change game conditions for the recent hour where there was a rather low amount of pips from food.


There were murmurs on the forums and in Discord that, if the game simply gave people less Food pips from eating, that it would lead to more organized and smaller towns. Jason simply tested it as quickly as possible to see how viable that was, and the results were abysmal.

I'd rather see a dev do something when we're in the middle of an inconsequential week, than a dev doing nothing at all and simply pondering options. The test gave us all the info we needed that no, FoodScale factor is NOT how you get people to cooperate and work as a town.


Edit: I love that you're trying to push Jason doing live tests on the servers as though he were experimenting on a live human being and inflicting physical pain or the risk of pain on the players.

Between "Jason is experimenting on us" and "Jason is disrespecting us" and "Jason's game is raping us" you are just an angry little ball of fluff, huh?

Last edited by Wuatduhf (2020-02-28 15:55:25)


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#16 2020-02-28 15:54:03

DestinyCall
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Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,463

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Wuatduhf wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

Also, 'experimenting' on people without their consent isn't ethical.  It wasn't ethical to change game conditions for the recent hour where there was a rather low amount of pips from food.


There were murmurs on the forums and in Discord that, if the game simply gave people less Food pips from eating, that it would lead to more organized and smaller towns. Jason simply tested it as quickly as possible to see how viable that was, and the results were abysmal.

I'd rather see a dev do something when we're in the middle of an inconsequential week, than a dev doing nothing at all and simply pondering options. The test gave us all the info we needed that no, FoodScale factor is NOT how you get people to cooperate and work as a town.

I got the impression that Jason's take-away from that test was that almost nobody died and that towns stockpile too much food.    He is still planning to significantly nerf food, just slower, so we don't freak out until it is too late.

Hence the reference to "boiling the frog" in one of his update notes.

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#17 2020-02-28 16:00:22

Wuatduhf
Member
Registered: 2018-11-30
Posts: 406

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

DestinyCall wrote:

I got the impression that Jason's take-away from that test was that almost nobody died and that towns stockpile too much food.    He is still planning to significantly nerf food, just slower, so we don't freak out until it is too late.

Hence the reference to "boiling the frog" in one of his update notes.

Yeah, just that compared to his previous "Boiling the frog" posts that Jason made when he first brought in tool slots, it felt very much like the extreme end of Boiling the frog, whereas this one now is far less impactful.

He ended up burning through town's stockpiles, and saw that basically everyone is going to stockpile. That's the point of everyone wanting to have tons of food, so that people don't starve and are free to take on other activities besides farming all day every day.

I certainly hope that the test made it clear that moving forward, using Food as a lever really doesn't work long-term. The game isn't about farming, it's about multiple generations and rebuilding civilization. Securing food supplies is just one aspect of that long road to rebuilding a civilization.


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#18 2020-02-28 16:16:57

Dodge
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Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,464

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Being able to easily have stockpiles of food is one of the reasons the game is so 2 dimensionnal, ultimately it's food that determines if you live or die and ultimately the only ressource that you truly need.

So if theres piles of it then every other behaviour has no pull in regards to survival.

Abundance = less value per object

An easy example would be if tommorow it would rain gold then it's value would drop to almost nothing, and it's economy become inexistant, since you would just go to your backyard and get some gold if you need it.

Also Jason made the test to see if it would spice up late game not to see if it would lead to organized smaller communities, this behavious is a little more complex and requires different motivations regarding group dynamics.

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#19 2020-02-28 16:19:22

DestinyCall
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Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,463

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Wuatduhf wrote:

I certainly hope that the test made it clear that moving forward, using Food as a lever really doesn't work long-term. The game isn't about farming, it's about multiple generations and rebuilding civilization. Securing food supplies is just one aspect of that long road to rebuilding a civilization.

I certainly hope so, too.    But past experience has taught me to assume the worst case scenario when guessing what Jason will "learn" from his tests.   

Like when he did a VOG survey of towns and decided that the existence of multiple towns with rubber was proof that racial restrictions were working as intended.

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#20 2020-02-28 16:35:05

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Wuatduhf wrote:

Edit: I love that you're trying to push Jason doing live tests on the servers as though he were experimenting on a live human being and inflicting physical pain or the risk of pain on the players.

Jason described such as an experiment.  Players are live human beings.  There was no consent from the players, nor anyway that they could have known that such would occur.
I didn't use the word 'pain', nor the concept, in the comment I made above.  But if you hung around the discord, there's clearly someone frustrated as hell by such.  I don't doubt that she was the only person who felt that way either.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-02-28 16:38:18)

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#21 2020-02-28 16:43:57

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Dodge wrote:

Being able to easily have stockpiles of food is one of the reasons the game is so 2 dimensionnal, ultimately it's food that determines if you live or die and ultimately the only ressource that you truly need.

It's not possible to make a suitable replacement for 'iPhones' from just food.  The game is not merely about survival:

jasonrohrer wrote:

"If we had to start over from scratch, but kept all of our knowledge, how long would it take us to get back to iPhones?" where iPhones are a placeholder for whatever sufficiently advanced tech we can imagine.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 896#p81896

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#22 2020-02-28 16:51:55

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,464

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Spoonwood wrote:
Dodge wrote:

Being able to easily have stockpiles of food is one of the reasons the game is so 2 dimensionnal, ultimately it's food that determines if you live or die and ultimately the only ressource that you truly need.

It's not possible to make a suitable replacement for 'iPhones' from just food.  The game is not merely about survival:

Yes but you wont die from not having an "iPhone", or would you? tongue

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#23 2020-02-28 17:23:41

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,463

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

Dodge wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
Dodge wrote:

Being able to easily have stockpiles of food is one of the reasons the game is so 2 dimensionnal, ultimately it's food that determines if you live or die and ultimately the only ressource that you truly need.

It's not possible to make a suitable replacement for 'iPhones' from just food.  The game is not merely about survival:

Yes but you wont die from not having an "iPhone", or would you? tongue

According to my calculations, I will die 5.89 hours after losing direct access to the internet   

Obviously, I have not tested the validity of my calculations yet, but the math is quite compelling.

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#24 2020-02-28 17:48:27

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,293

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

in case of composting, boiling the frog meant cooking the frog on maximum fire then forgetting it until the water evaporates and then burning the frog in a can forever until its a black dehydrated frog no one is gonna eat.


https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7986 livestock pens 4.0
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4411 maxi guide

Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.

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#25 2020-02-28 19:59:49

Mekkie
Member
Registered: 2019-12-17
Posts: 122

Re: The Game Designer Does Not Respect Families Nor Players

DestinyCall wrote:

According to my calculations, I will die 5.89 hours after losing direct access to the internet   

Obviously, I have not tested the validity of my calculations yet, but the math is quite compelling.

Wow, just be thankful you don't have my ISP!

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