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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 Re: Main Forum » When private property doesn't exist, you guys dream of trading? » 2021-12-27 18:25:09

annjust wrote:

The basis of trade is private property

Wrong.  The basis of trade is any economic exchange.  The legal details of ownership are secondary.  Communities can trade just as much as individuals. Every act of contribution is trade in some sense.

Jason is fairly capitalist, I believe.  And he tried to add private property to the game with fences.  But the thing is, this is a game.  People do not put up with exploitation like in real life.  So the capitalist can lay claim to whatever he wants, but he has no right, or legal recourse, to labor like in real life.  So he can produce nothing in his 60 minutes by working his private property alone.  No one will go work for him and his private property is worthless as a result.  The community and its pooled resources are much more valuable.

Jason added trade to the game with biome restrictions.  It's controversial, and probably rightfully so, but it does force "trade." At least so long as there are enough players on.  Mostly this "trade" is people going to ask for resources from biome families, and they either have it or they don't.  It's still an exchange, but due to the necessary nature of all families except one, again, it is in the interest of all to cooperate freely. 

I think Jason actually dislikes the amount of cooperation that occurs in his game.  But communalism is the natural form of organization for most of human history.

#2 Re: Main Forum » Oil Depletion in the Band Update » 2020-12-30 12:03:33

Melonaise wrote:

Another option could be making it possible to allow other families to drill for oil in the artic -- just like with fishing holes

This doesn't really solve the problem as I see it.  Mango says I was way off on the amount of oil there is now, but regardless, I still think the problem is there just isn't enough oil on the map.  It's not really an issue of people not getting the oil that is there due to biome restrictions.

I still like my desert oil idea, but a modification of Sage's idea is that the North band for ginger could be infinitely northward, so arctic stretches forever in the north direction.  And the south band could be infinite desert southward but also add oil to the desert.  I think that would be cool and make some sort of sense geographically.  smile

#3 Re: Main Forum » Oil Depletion in the Band Update » 2020-12-27 00:38:54

Spoon.  It's very simple.  Jason wants us to use oil.  You can come up for reasons why we should stick around with stone age tools, but he designs advanced technology around oil. 

You are coming up for reasons with why we should avoid using oil to acquire resources and while they may technically exist and they may in your opinion be viable, the fact that we have to discuss such things means there is a problem with lack of the resource that Jason intends to be the end game resource, oil.

#4 Re: Main Forum » Oil Depletion in the Band Update » 2020-12-26 20:57:38

The most critical use for iron is hoes.  If a town does not have iron, it cannot make hoes and therefore it cannot farm and therefore it will starve. Alternatives like saplings and stone hoes are not efficient enough to replace themselves. 

But I suppose you want us to have dedicated skewer and milkweed ferry-ers as well along with the water haulers.  Why even build a town at that point?  We can all just get in a big caravan and march west to never-ending fields of untapped resources.

#5 Re: Main Forum » Oil Depletion in the Band Update » 2020-12-26 19:56:21

Yes, they /die to get to ginger.  If Black fam had access to oil too, they would /die half as much.  Thanks for making my point.

#6 Re: Main Forum » Oil Depletion in the Band Update » 2020-12-26 17:15:16

Spoon, a single oil well provides 572 water buckets.  A well provides 46.  That's the difference.  Over 12x the water.

A single oil pull might last a family an entire day if they manage it properly.  While a single well will last maybe a couple hours at best.  And you still need oil anyway for iron.  And there are still 4 families to divide both wells and tarry spots among, so they will run out quickly regardless which is my point.   

I really don't understand why you are arguing so much against adding more oil into the game as if well spots are any substitute.   

It makes all our lives easier and I think having both the northmost and southmost families with access to oil would be a good balance.

#7 Re: Main Forum » Oil Depletion in the Band Update » 2020-12-26 11:56:47

Spoonwood wrote:

You can always dig up more natural springs for water, it's only iron unlock that won't happen.  Ponds also exist.  Ferrying crude oil or kerosene is not the only way of solving water issues, if that's the underlying problem.

Ferrying water from a natural spring you've dug up, in my experience can make for a rather "chill" life.  It reminds me of playing kindling maker.

Iron is just as important in late game towns as water.  So no, these are not real solutions.  In fact, if you wanted to play optimally, you've just made points as to why you should do these things for water and save all your kero for iron, but we both know that's not the intended game design either. 

Ponds give two buckets of water on average.  They are not a real solution and only should be used for emergencies.  I've seen people do nothing but get water from ponds and it hardly even keeps water levels above usage rate.

Wells are viable in the sense that they provide enough water, but you are forgetting the time factor.  How much water can you provide to a town by ferrying from new wells? The first few wells, quite a lot, sure.  But then after that?  You would have to be doing this for your entire life as you said, and how much water could you provide your family in that time?  How long would it last them?  I'm betting no more than an hour's worth, which means someone born after you died would have to do this again.   Dedicate their whole life to getting water.   

So towns would need a 24/7 water ferry-er to keep them going.  The logistics of that would fall apart very quickly, and it's why it doesn't happen.  Also, it's boring and not fun gameplay.  Again, you've made points as to why this is optimal, yet neither of us wants to do this every single life, but we should if we were really trying hard to make towns last as long as possible.

Jason has clearly designed the game around reaching oil technology and having an on-demand supply in town.  This allows water to be refreshed quickly and efficiently provided there is kerosene.  Alternatives are often used in emergencies, but they are not real solutions and not fun gameplay.

#8 Re: Main Forum » Gene Score Advice: The Rodak-Blatnik Method » 2020-12-26 01:09:58

There's more to it than that, Spoon.

First you need a mod that tells you family player counts.  You want to play when player count is the lowest, this is usually early morning US Eastern time.  This decreases the chances of having random players as relatives. 

Get born on your gene score farming account and do like you said.  Run out of your band to get homesick.  Now get your main account ready.  The one you play all the time and is in the low 40s score because gene score.

Dip back into your homeland on the score account then immediately spawn on your main account.  If you're lucky, your main account will spawn to your score account.  Congratulations, you just got guaranteed score for two lives.  If not, then SIDs on your main account and get out of the band on your score account ASAP.  Rinse and repeat until you make it happen.  Once you get your main account as your child, you will keep it out of the band for its entire life so you have no more children and both accounts can live to 60. 

Now, sometimes it doesn't work out and you have unaccounted for relatives... what do?  Well your score account is always leader... you can just kill them...  So kill any fertile females you don't have control over.  Careful though, that's a good way to get cursed. smile

Since you did this at low population numbers, your accounts may be the last fertiles for the family too and your tactics may end up killing the family from lack of babies.   Doesn't matter.  You're not a griefer, you're the #1 score in the game.

#9 Main Forum » Oil Depletion in the Band Update » 2020-12-26 00:48:39

Rookwood
Replies: 28

Now that we have only a small sliver of arctic for the entire map, oil is depleting at an accelerated rate.  There are perhaps two to three tappable tarry spots in a 1k radius of the current ginger fam at any given time.  Oil is the resource that unlocks advanced civilization and allows families to continue to survive.  The amount of oil available now is not enough to sustain four families for any extended period of time.  Without teams of dedicated skilled players, it's hardly enough to sustain one family at an advanced level. 

I do not think the game is in a fun state if it takes an elite few players doing nothing but ferrying oil from thousands of meters away for their entire lives to keep civilization going.

I have a couple suggestions on how to fix this. 

1. Give Black family tarry spots.  Oil is found in the desert IRL; this makes sense and doubles the amount of oil available on the map. 

2. Decrease the radius at which a tarry spot drains surrounding tarry spots.  The radius on this seems to be exceptionally high and much higher than it is for water.  I feel like this value might have been balanced for a pre-band world and now that bands are in the game, needs to be revisited for balance purposes.

I honestly think doing both of these things would not be overkill.

#10 Re: Main Forum » Seed ratio » 2020-12-19 12:26:29

The only crop I think this matters for is cabbage because it's the only one with a low seed ratio and also is a high turnover crop.  It takes 3 plants to seed to replant a 9 row plot, and then you have 3 seeds leftover.  8 plots in the standard 3x3 format with a hollow middle is I think optimal for cabbage.

#11 Re: Main Forum » New mining mechanics were added? » 2020-12-13 19:00:48

WumboJumbo wrote:

Are you sure about that?

I'm positive they are recycled sprites.

#12 Re: Main Forum » New mining mechanics were added? » 2020-12-13 17:02:57

Those are all recycled sprites that someone made in image editor.

#13 Re: Main Forum » Coming soon: get reborn to your descendants after living to old age » 2020-12-02 01:05:49

This is the kind of feature that sometimes you want and sometimes you do not.  Seems like we're just flipping to the other side of the coin now.  I do not think it fundamentally changes the way players will play at all however, if that is your intent. 

For instance, I do many of the things you think this update will cause already.  I care for my kids.  I always instinctively have my family's best interests at heart and favor and dote on my own children.  None of this has ever changed before or after gene score or likely will with this update either.  These things are the reason I play this game. It has never mattered to me that in the next life I will be somewhere else or have a different lineage.  It's One Hour One Life and that's the way I've always played it.

For others, that are more task-oriented and love the crafting/building aspects of the game, they will absolutely love this update.  So I think you've made a popular choice for them.

#16 Re: Main Forum » Please help build the road (with instructions) » 2020-11-26 18:25:04

ACorp used to build the roads a lot, I think mostly by himself.  He doesn't play anymore but he's still in discord.  If you can get a hold of him maybe he can give you some tips.

Also, if you ask in Phex for paint, someone in brown fam will usually make it for you.

#17 Re: Main Forum » I appologize, Methman » 2020-11-23 16:54:52

Meth doesn't read the forums.  I don't blame him.

#19 Re: Main Forum » This Is Not Justice » 2020-11-20 02:21:37

Can we be kind while people are spouting hate speech? 

No.

Life is cheap in this game.  It's not a big deal that this person got stabbed for saying something ignorant. They can respawn. 

What matters is that we don't allow our community to be overrun with such behavior.  Hopefully this person learned their lesson and can be both a productive and respectful player in their subsequent lives.

#20 Re: Main Forum » Can we get rid of /Curse my baby? » 2020-11-15 02:46:13

Spoonwood wrote:

I'm not clear on this.  Was 'Rockwood' a typo, or where you kind of making fun of Rookwood's name?  Or something else?

I'd say about 1 out of 2 people make that mistake.



Anyway, cursing is a way for the player to say I don't want to play with this person anymore and this game would be unplayable if it did not exist.

I also don't think SIDs is as annoying right now as it has been in the past.  There was a time where SIDs babies would /die and then spawn seconds later and do this upwards to a dozen or more times.   That's not happening as much as it used to.  Not sure if it's because player count has gone up slightly or the new band update makes it easier to find mothers in a homeland or what. 

Sometimes this is the result of a bad player who has been cursed by every mother on the server and you just happen to be the one who hasn't cursed them yet.  I see it a lot with new players getting this as a result and you can tell it really affects them because they don't understand what's going on and you have to explain to them so they don't feel horrible, then they too are annoyed once they realize what's happening.

#21 Re: Main Forum » Can we get rid of /Curse my baby? » 2020-11-14 13:10:06

Maybe I should have been more clear. 

pockywocky wrote:

It's silly and benefits no one.

This is objectively wrong.  It benefits the mother who is able to put an end to annoying behavior and get back to living their life instead of chasing after babies or having a repeated SIDs that slash dies every time they get picked up.   

The baby is free to continue respawning as long as there are mothers with patience to put up with its behavior.  So in actuality, it hurts no one and benefits the mother greatly.

You guys are forgetting that just because a mechanic exists in game, doesn't mean that the abuse of that mechanic can't be griefing.  Be considerate of other players and you won't have any problems.

#22 Re: Main Forum » Bobo's griefer was beaten. Where's Bobo? » 2020-11-14 13:03:18

Bobo doesn't play as much anymore but he was on last night and killed a family.

#23 Re: Main Forum » Can we get rid of /Curse my baby? » 2020-11-14 08:56:29

Nah, curse my baby is for runner babies too and people should be able to choose the type of player they play with.  Repeated SID babies are incredibly annoying and it's definitely a form of griefing if you do it more than a couple times to the same mom.

#24 Re: Main Forum » Gene Score Advice: Don't Play Again Right Away » 2020-11-10 23:40:46

I misunderstood and thought you were talking about climbing leaderboard and not worried about the minor perks you get in game from gene score.

#25 Re: Main Forum » Gene Score Advice: Don't Play Again Right Away » 2020-11-10 21:14:20

I don't think that's how gene score works.  It doesn't cutoff the last life's relatives as soon as you spawn a new life. 

I checked my own leaderboard and found this as an example.

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