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#1 2020-11-26 18:03:38

NoTruePunk
Member
Registered: 2019-01-25
Posts: 306

Please help build the road (with instructions)

Hey, I know y'all are using and appreciating the road, but I can't keep up with the pace of the eve spawns on my own. It takes a lot of food and lives, and sometimes I want to do other things in game.

You can usually find the running paver or the deactivated plow at the end of the road to the west. Be careful not to click the running paver, as that turns it off and wastes the ingredients.

To run the paver you need a tank of crude oil, a bucket of gravel and a bucket of yellow paint. You Don't actually need to run it to help though! Just chop down trees in a line, dig and remove items in front of the road and that would make the whole process incredibly faster.

The specialty ingredients needed is crude from the arctic and yellow paint from the jungle. Sometimes people process all the crude into kero, but usually you can find some without going all the way to the gingers. The paint is a little tricky, but if you visit the jungle fam you can usually find a bowl of urine or a bowl of Indian yellow pigment to make the paint yourself, or just ask for a mango leaf as It's incredibly easy to provide on request.

The road is an incredibly vital resource, as it lets us find one another quickly without relying on way stones, facilitates looting of dead towns from east to west and helps resetting from west to east. Our biggest enemy in this game is the eve spawn pushing us further out, which makes the road our last line of defense!

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#2 2020-11-26 18:13:09

NoTruePunk
Member
Registered: 2019-01-25
Posts: 306

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

It would help a lot if people could dump milk paint or yellow pigment at the end of the road, as those are the tricky ones to get a hold of.

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#3 2020-11-26 18:25:04

Rookwood
Member
Registered: 2020-07-27
Posts: 78

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

ACorp used to build the roads a lot, I think mostly by himself.  He doesn't play anymore but he's still in discord.  If you can get a hold of him maybe he can give you some tips.

Also, if you ask in Phex for paint, someone in brown fam will usually make it for you.

Last edited by Rookwood (2020-11-26 18:25:36)

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#4 2020-11-26 18:56:21

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,773

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

NoTruePunk wrote:

The road is an incredibly vital resource, as it lets us find one another quickly without relying on way stones, facilitates looting of dead towns from east to west and helps resetting from west to east.

I think the last word is intended to mean resettling.

Finding one another quickly makes it easier for some players throwing advanced objects like loom clothes, or engines, and kerosone tanks at new camps.  Looting of dead towns isn't rebuilding civilization from scratch.  Such looting is a cheat on that concept.  The Steam advertisement talks about rebuilding civilization from scratch.  So did Jason a while back:

jasonrohrer wrote:

The game takes place in the realm of thought experiments.

It is "in the future," because the thought experiment is about the future.

But this world is obviously not earth.... it is 50,000x bigger than earth, and it has no oceans.  So there was no apocalypse here.  There are no ruins.

The world is the imaginary space inside which this thought experiment plays out:

"If we had to start over from scratch, but kept all of our knowledge, how long would it take us to get back to iPhones?" where iPhones are a placeholder for whatever sufficiently advanced tech we can imagine."

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 896#p81896

But, there's no way of doing such a "thought experiment" meaingfully with looting of dead towns.

Resettling old towns from west where an Eve spawns to east, also isn't rebuilding from scratch.  It leads to situations like where Eve Fierros http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6768204 walks into Mushroom Gorge or a bit later.  Then that early family has high pip values for foods with a fair amount of variety of food around.  That might get described as a cheat on the food system.  And it's not just a player or two who wanders into a place like that from some earlier generation camp.  It's the entire family.

Such Eves who resettle also don't dig up any iron veins.  Additionally, because of such resettling from west to east, families end up spread out left to right even further, since new Eve spawns will happen and spread things out.  Road building plays a part in spreading families out, because it makes resettling of dead towns easier.  Resettling also pushes families apart even more, and your road encourages that.  Especially when families last a fair amount of time after resettling.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-11-26 18:56:49)

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#5 2020-11-26 19:09:51

NoTruePunk
Member
Registered: 2019-01-25
Posts: 306

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Spoonwood wrote:
NoTruePunk wrote:

The road is an incredibly vital resource, as it lets us find one another quickly without relying on way stones, facilitates looting of dead towns from east to west and helps resetting from west to east.

I think the last word is intended to mean resettling.

Finding one another quickly makes it easier for some players throwing advanced objects like loom clothes, or engines, and kerosone tanks at new camps.  Looting of dead towns isn't rebuilding civilization from scratch.  Such looting is a cheat on that concept.  The Steam advertisement talks about rebuilding civilization from scratch.  So did Jason a while back:

jasonrohrer wrote:

The game takes place in the realm of thought experiments.

It is "in the future," because the thought experiment is about the future.

But this world is obviously not earth.... it is 50,000x bigger than earth, and it has no oceans.  So there was no apocalypse here.  There are no ruins.

The world is the imaginary space inside which this thought experiment plays out:

"If we had to start over from scratch, but kept all of our knowledge, how long would it take us to get back to iPhones?" where iPhones are a placeholder for whatever sufficiently advanced tech we can imagine."

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 896#p81896

But, there's no way of doing such a "thought experiment" meaingfully with looting of dead towns.

Resettling old towns from west where an Eve spawns to east, also isn't rebuilding from scratch.  It leads to situations like where Eve Fierros http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6768204 walks into Mushroom Gorge or a bit later.  Then that early family has high pip values for foods with a fair amount of variety of food around.  That might get described as a cheat on the food system.  And it's not just a player or two who wanders into a place like that from some earlier generation camp.  It's the entire family.

Such Eves who resettle also don't dig up any iron veins.  Additionally, because of such resettling from west to east, families end up spread out left to right even further, since new Eve spawns will happen and spread things out.  Road building plays a part in spreading families out, because it makes resettling of dead towns easier.  Resettling also pushes families apart even more, and your road encourages that.  Especially when families last a fair amount of time after resettling.

The effective distance between two families is all that matters, and I'd take a road trip in a truck over a tireless cart walk any day.

I do agree that we should resettle less, but disagree strongly that looting is bad. Looting almost always happens east to west, which means it's a force to counter the eve spawns. Resettling on the other hand happens west to east which exacerbates the eve spawn drifting away.

Looting leaves behind a shell of a town no eve would want to settle in, which means people are actually MORE likely to start over.

And this thread isn't actually for your gripes with how others play, spoon. This thread is about the road.

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#6 2020-11-26 19:54:42

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,773

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

NoTruePunk wrote:

I do agree that we should resettle less, but disagree strongly that looting is bad. Looting almost always happens east to west, which means it's a force to counter the eve spawns. Resettling on the other hand happens west to east which exacerbates the eve spawn drifting away.

Looting leaves behind a shell of a town no eve would want to settle in, which means people are actually MORE likely to start over.

I was referring to looting things for a purpose.  Like taking loom clothes to an Eve camp so that they have something to wear, which despite it's downsides, has a nice side towards people.  Or taking kerosene tanks and an engine to a town and making a vault early on, which again, despite that it can get considered a cheat, could help out a one vein town or work well for water purposes.  Neither of those involve families starting over, and when players do so continuously for new towns, they start over less.

Looting for purposes of people becoming more likely to rebuild from scratch, would involve taking those objects from dead towns and losing them in a hard to find, hard to get into biome.  More like what Rey has done on occasion, and like a forum comment (oof... I forget that person's name) whose family died out and they took the family's engine and put into some specialty biome before the biome band update.

That said, I think, instead of transference of objects, if one wants to make it so that families are more likely to start over, and rebuild from scratch, it might be effective to lock up dead towns behind property fences.  No gates.  Or at least the important resources behind property fences.  If you see a vault in a dead town with a gate, put property fences in front of that gate.  I think that property fences don't decay based on real time, but like fire, change based on time since last seen, or something like that.  So, if enough people would lock up a dead town behind a fence, THAT might just lead to people no longer resettling, and new camps rebuilding from scratch more often.  But, that isn't looting at the very least.

NoTruePunk wrote:

This thread is about the road.

I talked about the implications of the road in my first comment, didn't I?  You want to road build fine.  But, whatever the consequences of doing such are, you would do best to fully understand the implications or what they are likely to be.

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#7 2020-11-26 20:42:08

Eve Troll
Member
Registered: 2020-07-07
Posts: 224

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Only glazed over this but the term looting really only applies when someone still owns the resources, or the resources dont belong to them. I perceive this as either stealing from a living town, or taking items from dead towns outside your band. Sometimes this is necessary. But to preserve resources from old towns and move them west is smart. Even with people doing that, hundreds of hours of collective work is lost with movement. I think preserving that is a show of respect to previous generations. Sure its kinda lame to have a truck and kerosene in the first few generations but personally i would prefer to have a strong late game than a monotonous early game. The first 5 or so generations after eve are fun, but after that they are pretty boring. For me things really only get interesting once the mine has collapsed and kerosene is available.

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#8 2020-11-26 21:48:21

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,773

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Eve Troll wrote:

Only glazed over this but the term looting really only applies when someone still owns the resources, or the resources dont belong to them. I perceive this as either stealing from a living town, or taking items from dead towns outside your band.

I looked up looting after reading your comment, and it seems like my use is unconventional.

Eve Troll wrote:

Sometimes this is necessary.

I agree it's sometimes necessary to transfer resources from dead towns.  But, in a game that is supposed to be about rebuilding from scratch (or was), and still gets advertised that way, doesn't that signal an issue?  Like has your family pulled their weight and earned things if they rely on resources that the dead left behind?

Eve Troll wrote:

But to preserve resources from old towns and move them west is smart. Even with people doing that, hundreds of hours of collective work is lost with movement. I think preserving that is a show of respect to previous generations.

The term generation applies players withing a family.  It strikes me as weird to use it to apply to other families who were chronologically prior.  I think we should keep in mind that the dead town's characters are dead.  Though we may know the people behind them, those characters are dead.  How would they feel about other families using resources that they got for their family?  Sure, they might be willing to share, and then taking those resources seems like a sign of respect.  But, they might want other families to get those resources themselves, in which case, it doesn't sound so much like respect.

Eve Troll wrote:

For me things really only get interesting once the mine has collapsed and kerosene is available.

Well, then I think there would be cause to take kerosene from dead towns, but never take iron or steel.  Why do you find things interesting then?  Is it because you don't have to do any hungry work?  Or because you probably would do best to think about the balance of using kerosene for water vs. using kerosene for iron?  Both?

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#9 2020-11-26 21:56:53

Eve Troll
Member
Registered: 2020-07-07
Posts: 224

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

With the current spawn cycling, if people didnt recover things from dead towns we would be restarting from scratch every 24 hours. Even some of the shortest rift arcs lasted longer than that and i doubt many would describe that as fun.

How would you feel if you pumped 72 tanks of oil and went back to get it, and people got mad at you because they want you to forget about your hard work and start from scratch?

Making things better for the next generation > starting from scratch

Last edited by Eve Troll (2020-11-26 22:00:03)

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#10 2020-11-27 04:10:48

NoTruePunk
Member
Registered: 2019-01-25
Posts: 306

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

I'm seriously sick of you hijacking every thread, spoon. I'm not interested in deliberating over the definition of a "generation", the relative merits or moral appropriateness of resettling villages or moving resources from dead towns. I don't care about children of men or your "no vision" rants.

I just want to build a road.

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#11 2020-11-27 05:08:21

Eve Troll
Member
Registered: 2020-07-07
Posts: 224

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Which band are you building the road?

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#12 2020-11-27 06:35:51

NoTruePunk
Member
Registered: 2019-01-25
Posts: 306

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Eve Troll wrote:

Which band are you building the road?

Right on the border between the mountain and jungle bands, on the mountain side.

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#13 2020-11-27 07:10:24

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,773

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

NoTruePunk wrote:

I just want to build a road.

You said above:

NoTruePunk wrote:

Hey, I know y'all are using and appreciating the road, but I can't keep up with the pace of the eve spawns on my own. It takes a lot of food and lives, and sometimes I want to do other things in game.

So, I don't think you just want to build a road.

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#14 2020-11-27 10:08:31

Cogito
Member
Registered: 2020-03-09
Posts: 141

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Spoonwood wrote:
NoTruePunk wrote:

I just want to build a road.

You said above:

NoTruePunk wrote:

Hey, I know y'all are using and appreciating the road, but I can't keep up with the pace of the eve spawns on my own. It takes a lot of food and lives, and sometimes I want to do other things in game.

So, I don't think you just want to build a road.

I guess you won this irrelevant point Spoon!

Seriously, it was a phrase of speech. They posted asking people to help them build the road, you go off on a tangent about the impact of building the road, and they say (paraphrasing) "no, actually I just care about the road building, not everything else you're talking about".

You then take one sentence ("I just want to build a road"), out of context, and use it to (apparently) try and score a point in some debate you think is going on. It's so painful to watch you do it over and over again - please, try and meet people at the place where they are. You should keep posting your threads about these big meta ideas you have, but this really is hijacking and the 'point scoring' just makes it frsutrating to talk to you.

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#15 2020-11-27 10:45:46

DiscardedSlinky
DubiousSlinker
From: Discord
Registered: 2019-05-06
Posts: 600

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

rwedd


I'm Slinky. I /blush. I also don't read essays.

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#16 2020-11-27 14:40:22

Coconut Fruit
Member
Registered: 2019-08-16
Posts: 805

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Yes spoon, I liked it more too when we had to build everything from scratch (Before race restrictions we had no idea where other families live, nor where dead towns are), but this is off-topic, so your posts are just spam.


Making own private server (Very easy! You can play on it even if you haven't bought the game)
Zoom mod
Mini guide for beginners
website with all recipies

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#17 2020-11-27 15:42:37

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,773

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Cogito wrote:

I guess you won this irrelevant point Spoon!

Seriously, it was a phrase of speech. They posted asking people to help them build the road, you go off on a tangent about the impact of building the road, and they say (paraphrasing) "no, actually I just care about the road building, not everything else you're talking about".

As a phrase of speech it's still not true.

Again, NoTruePunk says:

NoTruePunk wrote:

Hey, I know y'all are using and appreciating the road, but I can't keep up with the pace of the eve spawns on my own. It takes a lot of food and lives, and sometimes I want to do other things in game.

He also said:

NoTruePunk wrote:

The road is an incredibly vital resource, as it lets us find one another quickly without relying on way stones, facilitates looting of dead towns from east to west and helps resetting from west to east. Our biggest enemy in this game is the eve spawn pushing us further out, which makes the road our last line of defense!

I don't see how I've taken that phrase out of context, by referring to the original post by the same author.

Also, how would not having the central road kill player characters or lineages?  How does Eve spawning pushing characters further out kill families?  NoTruePunk's claim is that the road is vital, not merely convenient.  Do you really think that's the case?  Do you really think Eves spawning further that big of an enemy?

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#18 2020-11-27 16:20:11

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,108

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Spoonwood wrote:

As a phrase of speech it's still not true.

That's not how figures of speech work.  They are non-literal.  So a figure of speech is not intended to be "true" or "false" in the same way as a statement of fact.   When you kick the bucket, no actual bucket needs to get kicked.  When you   have butterflies in your stomach, there are no actual bugs in your belly.   The words mean something different from the literal interpretation.   Assuming a literal meaning is false and leads to confusion and misunderstandings.

Spoonwood wrote:

Also, how would not having the central road kill player characters or lineages?  How does Eve spawning pushing characters further out kill families?  NoTruePunk's claim is that the road is vital, not merely convenient.  Do you really think that's the case?  Do you really think Eves spawning further that big of an enemy?

I think the answer to these questions are pretty obvious.   All families are tied together due to certain game mechanics that I know you are already aware of.   The ones that require certain skin tones to access certain biomes to collect certain resources.   You know the ones I am talking about.

You do not need the road to start an Eve camp, but if you expect that family to survive beyond a certain point, the village will need access to rubber and oil.   The road gives you access to other families and, through them, you gain access to those resources.   That is why the road is vital.

Without a way to reconnect to other families, the constant western march of Eve spawns separates each village by wider and wider margins, until it becomes extremely difficult to connect with each other and share necessary resources in a timely fashion, ultimately dooming the village to a slow death by dehydration.

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#19 2020-11-27 17:07:37

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,773

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

DestinyCall wrote:

That's not how figures of speech work.  They are non-literal.   So a figure of speech is not intended to be "true" or "false" in the same way as a statement of fact.   When you kick the bucket, no actual bucket needs to get kicked.  When you   have butterflies in your stomach, there are no actual bugs in your belly.   The words mean something different from the literal interpretation.   Assuming a literal meaning is false and leads to confusion and misunderstandings.

NoTruePunk said:

NoTruePunk wrote:

I just want to build a road.

As a phrase of speech, that isn't a way of speaking truly.  It isn't speaking in an honest manner.

DestinyCall wrote:

All families are tied together due to certain game mechanics that I know you are already aware of.   The ones that require certain skin tones to access certain biomes to collect certain resources.   You know the ones I am talking about.

I've spent many lives traveling to Eve camps and getting them specialty biome resources.  I've also seen similar traveling for resources happen on Twitch.  The traveling is north-southish or diagonal.  NoTruePunk's road is horizontal.  It can be helpful, but no it's not vital.

DestinyCall wrote:

You do not need the road to start an Eve camp, but if you expect that family to survive beyond a certain point, the village will need access to rubber and oil.   The road gives you access to other families and, through them, you gain access to those resources.   That is why the road is vital.

No, NoTruePunk's road doesn't give one access to other families, unless they have their towns on the west-east paved road, and they haven't usually from what I've seen.  One can walk without the road.  Or maybe use a horsecart or horse or truck without it also.  To get access to those other families you need to travel north or south or diagonally, not horizontally in the central mountain band.

Also, if I recall correctly, there was no paved road section directly below Mushroom Gorge.  It started back up again west of it.  I would guess that Krauts didn't use a paved road section much, if at all.  Both Krauts and Spoons lasted longer than any of the current Eves on this week's deep roots.  187 generations for Krauts: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6756267  160 generations for Spoons: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6760220  114 generations for Wolfs: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6769735 and 114 generations for Hyuns: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6764841

From multiple points of view, I'm finding NoTruePunk's road not vital.

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#20 2020-11-27 17:54:30

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,108

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Spoonwood wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:

All families are tied together due to certain game mechanics that I know you are already aware of.   The ones that require certain skin tones to access certain biomes to collect certain resources.   You know the ones I am talking about.

I've spent many lives traveling to Eve camps and getting them specialty biome resources.  I've also seen similar traveling for resources happen on Twitch.  The traveling is north-southish or diagonal.  NoTruePunk's road is horizontal.  It can be helpful, but no it's not vital.

Eve camps don't need rubber.   Eve camps don't need oil.  But there comes a point where an older village does need those things.   That is the point when the road serves a vital purpose, by speeding up travel between distant families.   There are other ways to achieve the same objective, but that does not negate the importance of a long road.

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#21 2020-11-27 17:58:29

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,108

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Spoonwood wrote:

NoTruePunk said:

NoTruePunk wrote:

I just want to build a road.

As a phrase of speech, that isn't a way of speaking truly.  It isn't speaking in an honest manner.

And I just want you to realize that everything doesn't need to be so black or white.   That doesn't mean I don't have other stuff going on in my life.   

If you take everything this literally, it must feel like everyone is lying all the time.

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#22 2020-11-27 18:48:09

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,773

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

DestinyCall wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

NoTruePunk said:

NoTruePunk wrote:

I just want to build a road.

As a phrase of speech, that isn't a way of speaking truly.  It isn't speaking in an honest manner.

And I just want you to realize that everything doesn't need to be so black or white.   That doesn't mean I don't have other stuff going on in my life.   

If you take everything this literally, it must feel like everyone is lying all the time.

To Destiny and everyone else:

Please do a search for Mona Peaches in the discord before commenting further.  I wish I were being too suspicious of NoTruePunk's character or overly harsh as perhaps Destiny suggests I am.  But, that doesn't make certain things acceptable, even with other things going on in one's life.

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#23 2020-11-27 18:56:02

Eve Troll
Member
Registered: 2020-07-07
Posts: 224

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

I love how this thread went from "help with road plz" to a battle about semantics.

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#24 2020-11-27 20:53:24

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,108

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

Who is Mona Peaches and what do they have to do with this conversation.    I am beyond confused.

Also, I do not use Discord.   I have heard that talking can spread Covid, so I have taken a vow of silence until the end of 2020.  Best not to take any chances.

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#25 2020-11-27 22:05:48

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,773

Re: Please help build the road (with instructions)

NoTruePunk played as Mona Peaches, as one can learn by reading the discord.  There exist several users who say this first and likely use leader board information.  NoTruePunk said himself:

NoTruePunk wrote:

I think I was mona
milkman lives
idk what the hell was wrong with my children

Mona Peaches starved 5 children: http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=6775626

NoTruePunk says:

NoTruePunk wrote:

Our biggest enemy in this game is the eve spawn pushing us further out ...

But, he helped to starve out a lineage, and thus contributed to producing another Eve spawn.

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