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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 Re: Main Forum » Slow motion lag fix » Today 00:03:16

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

So no idea if this would help anyone, but I fixed this problem for a girl a few months back. Maybe it will help some of you guys too … 79#p100279

Thanks, I saw that when you posted it.

There have been times when my dedicated GPU was not being used, but that just makes the game unplayable, rather than laggy.

It's playable with GPU in use, but the lagginess is super frustrating.

#2 Re: Main Forum » Sprinkler kinda worth » Yesterday 23:43:11

I like your analyses, and they are similar to work I've done before (posted in discord from memory), but I'd caution about the conclusions you draw.

Any comparison of strategies needs a basis on which to compare them; in OHOL strategies are typically compared based on how much water they use, for the same outcome. Kerosene cost can be used the same way, as can iron cost.

I think this is generally a good way to compare strategies, but it breaks down in a few ways that are important.

The key factor to a family's survival is a stable supply of all key resources: babies, food, water, and iron. If any of these four resources runs out the family is either dead or about to die unless drastic action is taken.

A food source that uses less water is good, but is useless if it can't feed the entire family. It is also useless if it exhausts the family's entire supply of iron.

The amount of the key resources available to a family fluctuates naturally over time, due to players online, exhaustion of wells and mines, and creation of technology that unlocks more resources like kerosene.

The value of investing in infrastructure is that it allows the family to weather (or avoid completely) shortages of resources.

If I have a modest sprinkler system set up, say 9 sprinklers, I only need 1 bowl of water, 2/24 kerosene, and some seeds to produce a huge amount of food - and I can do it all by myself in a matter of minutes.

This is the value of the sprinkler system.

If we are low on water, I can produce a lot of food until we manage to secure more water. If we are low on players, I can single-handedly produce a lot of food to get us through till more people are online. If we are low on iron, I can avoid using tools to grow food.

The investment cost is high, but the marginal cost to run the infrastructure is low - and this is extremely valuable.

It's hard to compare strategies directly on these factors, but I think as a start it is uesful to call-out the marginal costs vs the initial fixed costs, and to consider how the strategy responds if any key resource is restricted. Different strategies will be optimal in different situations.

I'd also like to point out that the diesel engines are not consumed, so it's even harder to account for their cost. Once you've used the sprinkler 24 times it becomes a normal diesel engine again. You still would rather have three engines available (one general purpose, one plough, one sprinkler) but if you didn't you can get the engine back if needed.

#3 Re: Main Forum » Slow motion lag fix » Yesterday 23:01:48

I still struggle with this, even after trying a lot of different options.

Unfortunately, there is not one clear and obvious idea to investigate - as Jason says there shouldn't be any problem running on a good graphics card!

I have a Sapphire AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT, which should be powerful enough (ha!) but it is running in an external GPU enclosure over thunderbolt 3, so perhaps that causes issues?

I have an i7-8550U processor with 16GB of ram, which again should be enough, but I have a filesystem monitoring job that I can't stop that spikes the CPU usage every half an hour or so, so perhaps that causes issues?

My suspicion is that the sprite drawing is hitting some edge case that makes the pixel copying slow for some reason, and that becomes extremely laggy when there are a lot of sprites to be drawn (in a town, or zoomed out).

#4 Re: Main Forum » Sprinkler kinda worth » 2020-10-19 03:37:46

NoTruePunk wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
NoTruePunk wrote:

The "hot" processes are the piston blanks and rods which require hot steel. These don't stack and are trickier to handle than "cold" processes that just take normal steel.

I think piston blanks and steel rods stack these days, and that's what I recall seeing after some of the stacking updates.  They didn't use to though.  It's getting harder and harder to find a veteran I think who hasn't made this sort of mistake at one point in time I think.  For example, Tarr recently said on the discord that sandals didn't decay.  Though, they had gotten changed to decaying, if I recall correctly, this past April.

I might be wrong on the above easily, or misunderstood your intended meaning, of course.

The blanks and rods do stack, but not while they're hot. That's what's hard about it, the newcomen process is time sensitive and you've got to have the forge running too. When I prep for this I usually clear out as many empty tiles around the forge that I think I'll need, then fire the forge right before the newcomen, since the newcomen has a shorter run time.

You should test that, because I think they stack hot if they stack cold (can't recall off the top of my head about these).

#5 Re: Main Forum » Question About The Water System » 2020-10-15 10:17:46

Spoonwood wrote:
Cogito wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

Estimated bucket loss is 123 buckets of water if installing the engine after the deep well phase, when the family would have run a charcoal pump.  156 buckets of water if managing to install the engine after a shallow well dries up.

Doing something like changing to a diesel water pump and leaving kerosene as quickly as possible, is extremely far away from players having the ability to rebuild "civilization" from scratch in a multiplayer context, if you ask me.

Out of interest, what resources are *saved* by skipping those phases?

I assume it's a decent amount of charcoal and rubber?

41 estimated uses of a charcoal pump.  Each use of a charcoal pump requires a single rubber tire and basket of charcoal (and a bucket of water, but you make more water, so this detail loses relevance here).  So, 41 rubber tires and charcoal estimated.  41 hatchet or axe uses, possibly a little more if a rubber oven is used to cook some rubber (a specialty rubber oven is much better for organizational purposes in my experience... if you played in Cooler family, there was a second oven by the nearby desert where I had left buckets of latex at for cooking rubber).  4 rubber tires from a bucket, so that's 11 buckets of latex, 11 bowls of palm oil, and 11 bowls of sulfur no longer needed, in addition to 11 bowls of water no longer needed to cook the rubber... I should have subtracted 1.1 buckets of water from the numbers above.  Also, there's the potential time savings for obtaining those resources, and fewer buckets tied up by latex I guess.

For a family that is post-kerosene, the time savings from *not* using charcoal and rubber is significant.

If we have a reliable source of kerosene, a diesel well is both faster and more secure than using rubber and charcoal, and it frees any rubber and charcoal we have for vehicles and steel production.

In general play, I would only expect this situation to come up when a family emigrates, or inherits a lot of supplies from a dead family. Personally, if I have the engine and the kerosene (and am likely to get more), I think I would go for the diesel well simply because it simplifies the process so much, and the chance of the family dying out is lower.

#6 Re: Main Forum » Question About The Water System » 2020-10-14 00:22:29

Spoonwood wrote:

Estimated bucket loss is 123 buckets of water if installing the engine after the deep well phase, when the family would have run a charcoal pump.  156 buckets of water if managing to install the engine after a shallow well dries up.

Doing something like changing to a diesel water pump and leaving kerosene as quickly as possible, is extremely far away from players having the ability to rebuild "civilization" from scratch in a multiplayer context, if you ask me.

Out of interest, what resources are *saved* by skipping those phases?

I assume it's a decent amount of charcoal and rubber?

If you have access to abundant kerosene it may make sense to 'lose' that 123-156 buckets of water in order to avoid the extra work required to get it, or to remove reliance on other families for rubber (for example).

#7 Re: Main Forum » Griefers nicknames and what they're doing » 2020-10-06 22:16:40

NoTruePunk wrote:

Spent some dozen or so minutes collecting a ton of kindling for the ovens and smithy, only to come back from a trip to see the piles I had made were spread out and on fire. Watch out for that one

There is a small chance they were making a lot of soup or stew, but I haven't seen fields of stew in-game since the yum updates.

#8 Re: Main Forum » Where roleplaying has gone in OHOL? :( » 2020-10-03 12:26:40

I mostly just enjoy getting stuff done, but there is room for silliness and ritual and drama in all things.

My favourite thing to do, if tending sheep for some reason, is to take a rope and lead a sheep to one of the kitchen, the nursery, or (most often) the well.

I then do a speech about how we are offering this sheep so that we may never go hungry/we have lots of babies/the well never goes dry. It's fun, if a bit melodramatic.

Oh, and then I kill it.

#9 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-09-30 04:29:00

fug wrote:

Language learning stops at age six.

Ah, I thought it was much older for some reason.

Seems like the travelling tutor is the way to go, but it is only valuable if the two families live long enough to make learning the language worth the time taken.

#10 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-09-30 04:13:18

Spoonwood wrote:
Cogito wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

What are you talking about?  Browns can't learn to speak the black language and the ginger language so far I know.

You can still learn other languages, it's just harder because people don't tend to be around other languages long enough, and then pass their learned language down to their kids.

I think, homelands keep that from happening, don't they?

That's right - a girl has to travel to another town and experience the language, then head home to have babies, who also need to do this pilgrimage. Do this for a few generations and you can learn the language.

Alternatively, it may be possible for a traveller to go and speak in another town, so that *that* family picks up the language of the traveller, but not sure if that works.

#11 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-09-30 02:42:30

Spoonwood wrote:
Capyrs wrote:

They are the only race with a specialisation that can be learned by all the other races ...

What are you talking about?  Browns can't learn to speak the black language and the ginger language so far I know.

You can still learn other languages, it's just harder because people don't tend to be around other languages long enough, and then pass their learned language down to their kids.

Not that long ago we had long-lived towns and language was eventually, partially, shared between them.

#12 Re: Main Forum » A way to allow twins to curse. » 2020-09-24 06:23:11

I also twin with friends quite a bit, and while it is fun to collect a griefer's bones and parade them around town to get them cursed, it's not quite the story I want to tell - I'd rather just be able to curse them and avoid them in the future.

#13 Frequently Asked Questions » How do I know what to eat? » 2020-09-21 23:52:12

Replies: 2

The tutorial introduces a few foods, and tells me I should eat berries until I am full, but I see other players eating lots of other foods.

How do I find food to eat, learn how to eat it, and decide what I should eat next?

I also see players making food like pies. How do I find out how to make new food?

#14 Re: Main Forum » Glaring problem of cars » 2020-09-19 09:58:48

I agree, as one person alone it is hard to smelt much iron.

With a bit of prep even two people working together can easily smelt 10-12 iron (~ 2 stacks) in one firing. With three people I've managed 3+ stacks.

My method uses one flat rock, one person with tongs producing the blooms onto the rock, one person hitting the bloom with a stone, and another person moving the wrought iron onto new stacks.

Hitting the bloom and moving the wrought iron can be done by one person, but it's slower.

The most important thing is the set up. Get 3 stacks of iron within easy reach by the tongs weilder.

Clear lots of space for the wrought iron stacks.

Make sure people don't stand on top of the workspace, and don't try and put down all the flat rocks!


An engine is what, 15-16 iron. That's two firings for the wrought iron, two for the steel, and then another 20 messing around with the newcommen tools.

Work with people, prepare your workspace, and you'll find it much faster.

#15 Re: Main Forum » No fathers, no adoptions » 2020-09-17 01:41:07

I like the idea of the ephemereal wine maker.

I will endeavour to making as much glass as possible to aid in your task. Each life I will focus on collecting materials for glass (paper, glasswort, and limestone), or crafting glass bottles (and a funnel if needed).

Fatherhood may become something in the future, but only when Jason begins working on general gameplay mechanics again (as opposed to bugfixing and adding items). There are other balance and 'fleshing out' aspects of the game that I think will take priority, but I'm sure he will have the idea of fatherhood in his mind when working on related things. So I doubt we will get a standalone 'Fatherhood' update out of the blue, but instead it'll be something we get when he is looking at homelands, or family specialisation, or language, etc.

#16 Re: Main Forum » The Racing Car - Design » 2020-09-15 13:17:57

The file format (AutoCAD DXF) is used to record technical drawings.

#17 Main Forum » The Racing Car - Design » 2020-09-15 09:21:21

Replies: 12

After last week's Delivery Truck it looks like the next update may be a racing car.

Not many details yet (I'll update this post or make a new one as they come in) however we do have some initial designs.

Design 1:
Design 1

Design 2:
Design 2

I think it will be really fun to have people zipping around in sports cars, and I think people will look amazing(-ly hilarious) in these cars.

This content is not *super* useful right now, and I think we really need some general tech updates (a workbench!) and 'filling out' of the tech tree.

That said, I like it!!! Give us more high-tech items; let's build the engines and pump the kero, and have races down the highways.

As a bonus, we also can see the Delivery Truck design:
Delivery Truck Design

#18 Re: Main Forum » We desperately need a tech catch up » 2020-09-14 02:59:57

There needs to be a lot more tech around, or it needs to be much harder to grief.

People lock up horses if there aren't many around, but that is rare because they are pretty easy to replace.

If we have an easier way to create advanced tech (like a diesel powered workbench) then there will be less need to lock it up.

Engines are too easily griefed (just smash it with a hammer!) but trucks are only griefed by loading them and running away. If you have 5 trucks lying around it's not so hard to go find the missing one, if you even need to.

#19 Re: Main Forum » A new farm meta » 2020-09-14 02:50:01

Villas wrote:
gamatron332 wrote:

All your points are valid. However. There is no point in saying berries are trash(which they are) when they are such a important part of the game. We can’t feed sheep without berries. No sheep no compost, no compost no long lasting civ. While berries may suck we still need them and unfortunately have to take the time and soil loss.

Imo they aren't good for sprinklers, I may be mistaken, but we would need to deplete them all, then soil them all and only then use te sprinklers to save water, while we could be farming easier crops there and water them soilless every 5 or 7 min.

Bushes are better farming the ordinary way, soiling and manually watering them, so we can reset them individually as they need

This is exactly my point.

Unless we have lots of spare food and sprinklers, better to just farm berries normally.

I actually don't mind the idea of having a 'normal' set up and a 'berries only' set up, where you literally pick the pipes up and move them if you want to do intensive berry farming.

Let's say I want to make a lot of wool clothing, and I have 12 sprinklers.

I can first farm ~12x2 plots of carrots for 100 carrots and 28 seeds (4 extra, but all good) at a cost of 2 bowls of water, 4 charges of kerosene (1/6 of a 'use', 1/36 of a tank), and 24 seeds.

I then move the pipes to the berry farm, at a cost of 12 hammer charges (6% of a hammer).

I then farm 12x2 berry bushes 4 times for 112 bowls of berries (12 berry bushes give 14 bowls of berries) for a cost of 8 bowls of water, 8 charges of kerosene (1/3 of a use), and 96 soil (32 soil piles, a bit more than 4.5 composts).

I then move the pipes back to the main farm, at a cost of 12 hammer charges (6% of a hammer).

This will give me 100 bowls of feed mash, almost 17 feed mash buckets. 12 bowls of mash give 1 bolt of wool, so this gives enough for 8 shirts and shorts (with a bit left over).

This is almost certainly worthwhile, as you save 88 water at the cost of 2x6% of a hammer and 1/3 of a kerosene use. A single kero use gives 4x8 = 32 bowls of water, so the water saving is about 77 bowls (minus whatever the water cost of 12/100 of a bar of steel is).

It's a decent chunk of work, but probably achievable in one life if everything was set up ready to go.

#20 Re: Main Forum » A new farm meta » 2020-09-13 08:11:15

gamatron332 wrote:

I was thinking 18 long rows For a farm with a single row of berries (that’s 2 3x3 plots which is enough for any civ.) that could be easy to implement.

Berries are a lot more work than the other crops (beans come close), and don't benefit from the plough.

If you need a lot of berries, and the water is an issue, then having one row of berries may make sense.

For these berries, every 10 minutes, you will need 18 soil and 18 empty bowls. In return you save 17 bowls of water.

This is a good trade, but it comes at the expense of 18 other crops that don't require any soil. You do have to plant these other crops, but that is far easier as long as you have the seeds ready (wheat and corn in particular).

These crops are also faster to grow. Compare 4 minutes for corn and 6.5 minutes for wheat to the 10 minutes for berries.

Staked crops require a bit of work to add the stgakes, and take 5 minutes to grow, still better than berries.

The main drawback to berries is the soil requirement. Once you get rid of the soil requirement (thanks to ploughing hard rows) the other crops are so easy and fast to farm.

#21 Re: Main Forum » The Delivery Truck » 2020-09-12 08:23:44

Incredible amounts of damage = put things in it and drive away? Does that mean a horse cart with rubber tires is capable of doing ~1/3 incredible amounts of damage?

The most immediately obvious use of the Delivery Truck for me is building fast flat rock roads. Constructing those roads is dominated by collecting the flat rocks, the truck will make that job much faster.

I also think it will be useful for collecting and delivering produce from a sprinkler farm. Load all the vegies into baskets (made from threshed what sheaves) and load those into the truck. One trip to clear 63 veggies back to the kitchen is very attractive, compared to 3 trips with a hand cart with tires, or 7 with a normal hand cart.

Getting branches to make pens, adobe  and cut stones for buildings, trading resources between towns. There are lots of constructive uses.

Thankfully for now they can't be destroyed, and they aren't trivial to make, so I don't think they're going to be as abused as some might imagine. The worst that will happen is the truck gets stolen, filled with important resources.

I hope we see lots of trucks running around, and more tech like it.

#22 Main Forum » The Delivery Truck » 2020-09-12 04:57:52

Replies: 14 … justFueled

What an interesting concept!

First, functionality.

The delivery truck is a fueled vehicle that can hold 21 large items. For reference, a horse or hand cart with tires holds 8 large items.

It takes one use of kerosene, and remains fueled for an entire hour. The crude car takes 4 large items and remains fueled for 10 minutes.

This is a big step up from other options, and is understandably more expensive to make.

So, how hard it is to make?

It requires a diesel engine (as to be expected!) and everything else is fairly achievable.

The basic steps are:

  1. Make a Diesel Engine (requires rubber, locked behind the Jungle Biome. Also required for Rubber Tires later on)

  2. Make a Truck Chassis by combining a Steel Beam with 4 Steel Wheels with Tires

  3. Make 3 Buckets of Paint, one white, one red (requires cinnabar, locked behind Desert Biome), one black

  4. Make a Stack of Sheet Metal and a Big Stack of Boards

  5. Assemble!

    1. Place the engine onto the truck chassis to make a Diesel Truck Chassis

    2. Paint the metal sheets red and put them on the Diesel Truck Chassis to make a Truck Cab

    3. Put the Big Stack of Boards on the Truck Cab to make a Bare Wood Truck

    4. Paint the truck white

    5. Use the black paint to on the truck to add the delivery signage

    6. Fuel her up (requires Kerosene, locked behind Arctic Biome)

I think it's going to be very useful!

#23 Re: Main Forum » A new farm meta » 2020-09-12 02:57:42

gamatron332 wrote:

@cogito I am definitely gonna try and use your design.. when I was working on it I entirely forgot workspace and before engine problems.

It's not too hard to do, main thing is leaving enough space, and ideally having the start of the farm near the bakery (but otherwise on unused land).

gamatron332 wrote:

It may be a one man band then but I’m gonna try. If you ever see a eve chewing out her kids because they didn’t plant the berrys in a line... that’s gonna Be me

I *hate* berries as part of the sprinkler system, as they restrict usage of the plough. Potentially you could have one side as berries and the other as crops - this would certainly reduce water used for berries. The downside is that sprinkler farming other crops becomes twice as slow.

When I've done this farming before I would have an entire row planted and watered, growing, while I prepare the other row - harvest, plough, and plant. It was relatively easy to alternate between the two.

Perhaps there is an end game where you have a lot of sprinklers built, and can devote a section to berries. They certainly use a lot of water if you are trying to make a lot of mash. They just seem so slow.

#24 Re: Main Forum » The Work Table! » 2020-09-12 02:47:16

I think this makes a lot of sense, and would make fabrication a lot faster.

I'd even go so far as to say it may negate the negatives of being able to smash engines so easily.

It would make late-game technology much more accessible (extra engines, sprinklers) but that is probably a good thing.

#25 Re: Main Forum » A new farm meta » 2020-09-10 05:49:35

I enjoy all the ins and outs of plough and sprinkler farming.

Once set up an individual can farm an inordinate amount of food for pretty much no marginal cost.

In terms of spacing, the sprinkler head should be placed close to the kitchen. There is a minimum required vertical space of 7 tiles - more is better. This is made up of 1 tile for the sprinklers, 1 row either side for crops, and 2 rows either side of that for harvesting. If there is extra space on only one side that is still useful, as that side will be used for crops like wheat. Allocate and occupy more space than you think you will need, but at least 7 vertical tiles.

The sprinkler system will run to the west, and should be one long line. There is no value it turning the rows around, as it makes ground preparation and harvesting much more difficult.

Starting with 3-6 sprinklers is fine, and worth doing. Aim for space for at least 15, but even more is better.

Make sure a lot more space is allocated and occupied early on, by laying flooring in long horizontal rows. My preference is for fast stone roads directly above and below the crops, however this does make interacting with the farm difficult for some people. An option I have not tried yet, but would like to, is to fast stone road down the centre where the sprinklers are, with cut stone paths above and below the 2 lines of crops.

Use the plough! The plough turns a hardened row into a deep tilled row!!!! With the plough the only crop that needs soil is milkweed.

Plant and harvest a lot of wheat initially. Turn all the straw into baskets - let people take some for compost if needed, but you don't need soil to farm when you have a plough.

Harvest all produce into baskets. Fill baskets with tomatoes, corn, pickles, peppers, onions, carrots - anything and everything that will fit. Harvested wheat goes into buckets.

Until we have better harvesting and storage options, get those baskets into carts and take them to the kitchen and feast halls.

Make more baskets.


Individually I was able to do 4+ harvests on a 12 long sprinkler system in one life. This is a lot of food. I did not make enough baskets, so was harvesting onto piles on the ground. This slowed me down a bit, but was faster than moving all the produce away. I would have had to move the produce if I continued, so what I've written above is more about long term sustainability.

There were a lot of seeds around from the 'traditional' farms (ie people letting carrots go to seed) and corn and wheat are very easy to mass farm. I did need to start managing seeds a bit better, especially for peppers and the like. This was one of the more annoying aspects of farming, but still fairly quick.

Set up the infrastructure, and there will be food!

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