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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 Re: Main Forum » Addon: Server Selector » 2018-04-16 17:55:24

Nice work, custom launchers like these are very convenient.  For users on linux (or windows users who like the look), here is a link to the other launcher referenced above: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1047

#2 Re: Main Forum » Update 75: The Monument Update » 2018-04-16 17:33:58

Yes, the wiki is a decently large project being handled by a very small operation at this point.  I wrote the framework for the starting and baking guides (the latter still largely incomplete) and then fell off the face of the world -- there are still some write-ups I had wanted to work on but they will likely be obsolete by the time I get around to it.

#3 Re: Main Forum » I am new » 2018-04-16 05:08:52

fragilityh14 wrote:

do domestic berries take 60 minutes to put the first fruit on now?

Yes, changed in the last patch to require a full epoch before growing their first batch of fruit.

#4 Re: Main Forum » Update 75: The Monument Update » 2018-04-15 06:37:28

pein wrote:

seeds do respawn, nothing was changed, maybe timers

I'm not sure about that.  Last thing he changed regarding wild carrots is here https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeD … 9f0b3baa7c where he deleted this transition file.

#5 Re: Main Forum » I am new » 2018-04-15 06:19:21

breezeknight wrote:

they replenish slowly, the more often you pic, the slower they replenish
don't pick the last berry unless you literally starve
afaik, bushes with the last berry present replenish faster than without any

Excellent advice in this thread and in breezeknight's post with the exception of the above section which merits some clarification.  The wild gooseberry respawn timer is 10 minutes from last activation regardless of how many berries are present, so berries will regrow at the same rate no matter how few are left on the plant.  However, it is true that the timer is "reset" with every activation, meaning that if a berry is taken off a bush that had 1 minute to go until regrowing the timer is reset back to the full 10 minutes.  Bearing in mind that wild gooseberries "rot" and despawn five minutes after being plucked, it can be a good idea to harvest a few berries at the same time.  For maximum efficiency in an area with multiple berry bushes, as fragilityh14 mentioned, it's best to not focus on harvesting one bush at a time and instead rotate between all available plants.

Domestic berry bushes are a little different.  Their berries never "rot" once plucked and the bushes only begin counting down towards a new harvest after all berries have been removed and the bushes have been watered.  If not watered within 7 minutes, however, stripped domestic bushes will die.  Players should thus never harvest the last domestic gooseberry unless they are willing and able to quickly water the plant.

#6 Re: Main Forum » Credits for the 100 generation players » 2018-04-13 00:02:14

Nicely done.  Thank you for letting this mic-less tourist take part near the end!

#7 Re: Main Forum » 1 0 0 G E N E R A T I O N S R E A C H E D » 2018-04-12 23:35:34

StormmyT wrote:

It was not, so apologies if it came off that way. Text can be notorious like that.  Neutral was what I was aiming for. Like I mentioned at the end of my post - the act itself isn't really a big deal to me. What I saw was a statement concerning the "spirit of the game" which flew in the face of what time in game and time on these forums has taught me. My goal was to point that out.

No worries, you raised some good points and I absolutely understand about text and tone -- I was also aiming for neutral, as I really am quite interested in the back-and-forth!  I confess that much of my original post was an excuse to overthink some of the points being made here and in the discord chat and in hindsight I probably came across as quite a bit more argumentative than intended.

StormmyT wrote:

Alternatively, I don't see external information such as guides as the same. This information is freely available inside the game and doesn't circumvent any of the built in features to violate the "spirit of the game".

Yes, I concede that a list of recipes or set of starting instructions substitute for in-game systems without necessarily superseding them.  It may be that we will lose the ability to spawn on specific public servers one day which would probably have the side effect of pushing organized team efforts (with or without voice chat) to private servers, perhaps even servers that are tuned to be more difficult than the public ones (it could happen!). 

StormmyT wrote:

So could there be a way to make playing with friends continue to be interesting? Currently, I think it'd be fun at first, but would get boring after a few lives. Maybe down the road that could change though.

If this group's endeavour demonstrates anything it's that a decided chunk of the current challenge comes from the possibility that the child you're raising is the same player that just killed all your sheep and suicided on a farm plot with your best clothes.  Without those concerns, players are free to attempt greater feats of crafting and organizing (as in the case of the server 6 city which held the wealth of kings) but the game is still new and lacks content.  At this point a group of friends looking to play together for any length of time would have to be very interested in expanding adobe structures.  As you say, hopefully down the road as more content is introduced this will change (and today's update looks ready to shake things up quite a bit with regards to sedentary farming cities -- combined with the changes to Eve spawn locations it may be a very long time before we see the megacities of server 3 again).

#8 Re: Main Forum » Rattle Snakes » 2018-04-12 15:47:04

Lily wrote:

Personally, when I see these animals I try to kill them all so my children don't end up dying by accident.

And as a bonus you can turn them into very fashionable boots!

#9 Re: Main Forum » VirtualBox image with Ubuntu and OHOL test server pre-installed » 2018-04-12 15:40:45

Roolstar wrote:

Also I'm assuming the map would never clear itself if I don't update it, right?

I am not an expert on this subject but over in https://www.onehouronelife.com/forums/v … php?id=838 they discuss the issue of map culling (which I assume is what you mean?  Apologies if not).  The last post in particular mentions mapCellForgottenSeconds.ini (found in /OneLife/server/settings) which in theory can be changed to disable culling entirely.

#10 Re: Main Forum » Rattle Snakes » 2018-04-12 15:16:12

Darcie wrote:

Pathfinding loves to force me into a rattlesnake.  At first I thought it was just if I landed on a spot with a snake and I wasn't seeing it, but after watching closely several times and getting better at spotting them, it looks like the path going through them is enough... that or it is lag, but if waling past a snake causes death, I don't think path finding is refined enough to support this as it is all to easy for an auto path to ram one into a snake that otherwise would be avoided, so land on tile would be better, imho.  Plus real snakes don't bite every time the path is crossed anyway.  If it was just a lot of lag, ignore this comment.

If you and a motionless hostile animal occupy the same tile then you are killed.  Yep, pathing through a snake's resting tile would do it (unless, again, it is moving around).  A semi-related trick is that animals cannot land on tiles occupied by items, so if you ever need to be idle somewhere in bear country it's possible to avoid getting mauled by standing on the same tile as your basket or cart or whatever. 

Darcie wrote:

It would be nice if Apocalypse was a bit less frequent.

Apocalypses have been disabled for now.

#11 Re: Main Forum » 1 0 0 G E N E R A T I O N S R E A C H E D » 2018-04-12 02:32:58

Lily wrote:

They are basically only cheating themselves by making the game way easier than it is meant to be.

True enough, just as it's probably true that relying on external sources of knowledge somewhat cheapens the "organic learning" aspect of the game (and this coming from someone who contributed a few pages to the wiki!).  Still, I do believe the achievement was well-earned.  From the sidelines it did sound like it involved quite a bit of sleep deprivation and, if nothing else, their mutton storage room was a sight to see (unless you're particularly fond of sheep, I suppose).

While I don't know if it's currently (or will ever be) feasible, I'd like to see the reddit suggestion implemented of one day having a more detailed list of family bloodlines, how long they survived, how many members they had, etc.  That would take the focus off a single "winning" and anonymous team and allow every individual to have their personal efforts recorded.

#12 Re: Main Forum » 1 0 0 G E N E R A T I O N S R E A C H E D » 2018-04-12 01:08:57

Portager wrote:

I have enjoyed watching bits of this on twitch. Is it rule breaking, no. Is it cheating, no. Is it unfair, not really.

To play devil's advocate for a moment, it might be possible to argue that the achievement was "unfair" to a segment of the playerbase should it influence the balancing of future features.  Jason is currently in discord chatting about upcoming updates and continues to tease a mysterious "multi-generational" project.  He expressed interest in this group's achievement, asking how long it took to accomplish and what ended up defeating them, and mentioned he may aim for roughly half the invested hours as a requirement for his new feature.  If that results in a feature that's tuned in such a way as to be out of reach of all but groups coordinating very carefully I'm hopeful he will tweak it accordingly just as he tweaked in the wake of the original soil update as well as the apocalypse update.

The consensus seems to be that the usage of voice chat is an inevitability much like the usage of external wikis and guides and that there is very little to be done about it.  Instead, the dev's focus appears to be on making these kinds of achievements extremely difficult even with voice chat (hence his concern that what ultimately undid the family line was boredom) and how this is accomplished without alienating too much of the population remains to be seen.  We are all in this ride together, and I think part of the charm of this game is the fact that it inspires such heated debate about what essentially boils down to a high score with (hopefully) very little impact on the game itself.  Provided the discussion remains civil I really do think that's a good thing!

#13 Re: Main Forum » 1 0 0 G E N E R A T I O N S R E A C H E D » 2018-04-11 23:57:43

YAHG wrote:
bread_lord wrote:

...

I am going to obfuscate and use my intellect and lots of words to try to pretend me and a group of friends using 3rd party shit to get around game mechanics that influence difficulty doesn't count and we didn't cheat to set a new record.
Full of shit.
This is because it IS insincere either that or you are too dumb to realize the above.

I for one think assuming stupidity over ill intent is just a mark of moral cowardice.

A pity you failed to read even the first paragraph of my post.

bread_lord wrote:

I was not a core member of this generational project and I only participated for the span of a single life [...] an hour or so after the event was opened to all who wished to participate

In other words, I was not involved in the setting of the thread-referenced record and my contribution boils down to having taken screenshots of the city after the group had achieved their goal and had extended an invitation to "come have some fun" and "experience the blood line".  Whatever your grievances, please direct your ad hominem attacks at a more appropriate target.

#14 Re: Main Forum » 1 0 0 G E N E R A T I O N S R E A C H E D » 2018-04-11 23:11:10

StormmyT wrote:

A statement like this comes across as either insincere or ignorant.

Forgive me if it was not your intent, but you are reading as very hostile and I would point out that I have never concretely defined my own stance on this matter.  I was not a core member of this generational project and I only participated for the span of a single life (not counting the six or so minutes I was alive before falling to a connection error) an hour or so after the event was opened to all who wished to participate on discord.  What's more, I do not personally own a mic and was limited to in-game text.  Having played in excess of 140 hours entirely "in the spirit of the game", I thought the experience of joining others whose voices I could hear might make for a novel experience.  It did.  It was never my intention to die on a hill in defense of a high score so there is no need to treat me as an enemy combatant. 

StormmyT wrote:

For starters, OHOL has a very specific system that limits communication based on age. Voice chat completely circumvents this. I'd say that very much goes against the spirit of the game and you're fooling yourself if you think that's up for debate.

What about players who live together and can speak to each other outside of the game?  How do we handle "real life" voice chat?  OHOL also has a system wherein players cannot accumulate a list of known recipes (relying instead on mousing over objects and tabbing through a list of immediate byproducts).  It was perhaps Jason's intent that players teach each other, yet he also acknowledged the value of external information:

"Please make as many guides as you want to make.  They often teach ME things about the game that I didn't even realize (like how much milkweed is needed to make a backpack from scratch), which in turn helps me balance the game.  The only thing I can control is what's INSIDE the game.... like what hints are given there, etc.  But OUTSIDE the game, I expect people to talk about and write about anything and everything!"

StormmyT wrote:

Next you have the external organizational effort to force a closed group of players to keep spawning with each other. Again, the spirit of the game isn't to play with a pre-organized group of people. Jason (the game's creator) has publicly expressed his opinion on this in the past (playing with friends), and while it seems he's toyed with the idea, ultimately it sounds like he's come to the conclusion that it's not within his core vision of the game and is something better left for private servers. See this topic for his posts: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=138 - I'll quote a few of the relevant lines below.

jasonrohrer wrote:

There is a chance that you will be born along with your friends, but babies also get spread out randomly.  There is no built-in friend feature.  That's not really what this game is about... it's about different situations in every life.

jasonrohrer wrote:

This game isn't about playing with friends.  You're right about the alienation issue too, with cliques of people who are on voice chat, but who never speak/chat in the game.  A bunch of silent, well-organized people who seem to be telepathic.  I agree that it would make the game worse, probably.

What about baby codes, such as the one currently proposed to identify "forum readers"?  Would that sort of thing not also represent a pre-organized group of people should it result in the widespread abandonment of "F babies"?

It's also fair to point out that Jason has also changed his mind on certain topics.  For instance, Jason was initially against wells refilling:

"A lot of people ask to be able to repair or refill the well, but that’s not interesting to me.  It’s one weird trick you can use to recover from catastrophe and it becomes busywork. It’s much more interesting if there’s a hard failure, it’s a very dramatic turning point for the community if the well done gone dry! That’s interesting, and if there isn’t a good way to recover from it players have to come together and have a culture around well usage."

StormmyT wrote:

So is it a legitimate, "within the spirit of the game" strategy? Evidence points towards "no".  [...]why not do it on a private server? That's effectively what's been accomplished on a public server in this case with the active player vouching. Just with the added potential of souring other players' experiences and skewing some game stats that could otherwise provide some interesting data on the state of the player base.

You raise a good point about why the effort was done on the public servers rather than on a private server.  I cannot speak for the group in question but I imagine the reason boils down to, "because it's more fun if the result ends up being displayed on the website."  I personally have no opinion on the matter.

On the subject of strategies, I would argue that it's quite difficult to define what is and isn't a "legitimate strategy" in this game because OHOL is and has always been in a constant state of flux.  While Jason often stated that the goal of the game was to work together to "rebuild civilization", he has also stated that "[he does] want all civs to crash eventually."  To that end, he has changed many mechanics and eliminated many strategies that players could not have known were "illegitimate".  Apparently, it was an unintended exploit that players were able to survive on carrots indefinitely while ignoring wheat and berries.  Players adapted and began to understand compost cycles to sustain their farms, but this too was deemed unintended and worms were added.  Players adapted to that change and developed the current strategy of relying on wild carrot seeds.  Jason is planning on eliminating that strategy, as well. 

While voice chat is a strategy that he cannot so easily remove, he did give us the ability to choose which public servers we spawn on.  In so doing, he (perhaps unintentionally) allowed players to accomplish certain things that might also be considered outside of the intended experience.  As I write this, there are six official servers with 0 players and two servers with 1 player.  By spawning on these empty servers, a single player can build a civilization entirely by themselves utilizing the solo-eve-old-age respawn mechanic to accomplish what would ordinarily require many players and many generations.  When the apocalypse was added at least one player managed to trigger it by doing just this.  Certainly the effects of that were much more impactful than what this group accomplished.

#15 Re: Main Forum » Setting up a private server where you spawn where you died as eve » 2018-04-11 18:49:48

Jason's instructions are for those running Linux.  You can try following this guide https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=498 instead; Bimble's directions are quite thorough but feel free to ask questions here or in that thread if you encounter difficulties.  Following his instructions will allow you to host a private server in the virtual machine and play using your normal windows client (I don't recommend playing with the VM client).

#16 Re: Main Forum » 1 0 0 G E N E R A T I O N S R E A C H E D » 2018-04-11 18:33:43

I was able to participate today to reach the goal of 111 and it was quite an enjoyable experience.

Re: oppositional posts, I assume the argument is that in order to be considered legitimate, a family line would have had to consist only of unrelated players coordinating exclusively in-game.  It is not an unfair argument, but it does boil down to differing opinions on styles of gameplay.  Since the game's creator has never expressed opposition to voice chat, it then falls to players to define what is and is not within the spirit of the game and, of course, it is unlikely everyone will agree (for instance, to a purist, all forms of external communication violate the spirit of the game -- including these forums).  Once upon a time, the fact that raiding in MMOs was facilitated by external addons and voip was something that also inspired bitter debate.

It is fair to point out that, yes, voice chat and player vouching played a large role in accomplishing the generational goal.  All parties should be able to agree that it would have been very difficult, if not impossible, to have achieved such a high number using only the tools available within the game.  Perhaps a more fruitful avenue of debate would focus on why that is: I know that Jason has repeatedly indicated that his desire is for all civs to die out eventually, but what is "eventually"?  I would wager that few natural generations extend into the double digits.  If these generations are meant to be extending into the 40s and 50s, it is likely that more tools are needed to allow for neutralizing of deliberately noxious playstyles.  With a willingness to learn, a new and/or inexperienced player is a liability only for a short time; a player truly dedicated to undermining the efforts of others is quite difficult to effectively combat (there are undesirables in real life too, of course, but real life does not offer the ability to respawn).

#17 Re: Main Forum » New record 32 Generations » 2018-04-11 05:02:04

Quite a time investment, to be sure.  It has been reasonably entertaining listening to the discord chatter.  Hope you reach your goal.

#18 Re: Main Forum » Should this become more of a roleplaying/social game? » 2018-04-07 02:18:37

For an opposing viewpoint, I will readily admit that I most enjoy games with punishing -- even unfair -- levels of difficulty.  I personally find the "balls-out frantic survival" to be the most enjoyable part of OHOL: selfishly, I would be inclined to oppose a concerted shift towards a gentler and more social experience.  Admittedly, a civilization-building multiplayer game is an odd choice for a player who generally resents social and creative/building additions to games so my opinion on whether certain parts of the game are enjoyably balanced might not be very representative of the playerbase's views.

We both might agree on finite resources, however: I would prefer that the difficulty remain tied to player ability and not to a world of vanishing resources.  While I don't know if I like the idea of simply adding in resource respawns (because I know allowing players to become "entrenched" and comfortable is something Jason is against), I would like to see it possible for players to restore the world as much as they can destroy it.  It's possible to dedicate one's life to replanting milkweed everywhere, for instance, but not trees, wild bushes, or dug carrots (to say nothing for wildlife or stones).  It shouldn't be easy, necessarily, but I wouldn't mind having the option to play more than a milkweed nomad from time to time.

#19 Re: Main Forum » [guide] Beginner's Guide to Survival, Fire, Farming » 2018-03-12 03:21:22

Posting to add that the guide has been updated to include more images.  I have slightly extended the very helpful visual recipe format provided by wiki user Exgrathanor and I hope the result is a slightly more digestible guide that is a little easier to visualize.

#20 Re: Main Forum » How often does your wild eve mother nurse you to adulthood? » 2018-03-10 11:40:05

I will always pick up and run with the first child that spawns with me as a wild eve.  This does usually involve forgoing the production of a sharp stone and basket, but with the exception of extremely unfavourable starts (e.g. poor choice of initial direction resulting in a much-delayed discovery of a berry biome that has been recently foraged) our survival is almost guaranteed once we find grasslands.  It is actually much harder once the child matures as the food requirements effectively double -- the time pressure to produce carrots is intense.  If the child is experienced and our circumstances are good, the pressure then branches to needing clothing ASAP as well as needing to ensuring a large enough farm for more children.

Sometimes the rushing involved is intense enough that I am unable to find time to teach a child that knows little, but I try to squeeze in at least the main environmental rules and some basic tasks.  After the carrots start maturing there is slightly more time for teaching or answering questions.

#21 Re: Main Forum » [guide] Beginner's Guide to Survival, Fire, Farming » 2018-03-07 03:53:11

Uncle Gus wrote:

You should add a link to this guide on the first page of the wiki.

Good call -- the first page was view-only for a while but I see the permissions were changed today to permit editing.  I'll toss a link up there ASAP.

#22 Re: Main Forum » [guide] Beginner's Guide to Survival, Fire, Farming » 2018-03-06 21:16:39

johnnyburninator wrote:

The milkweed lifecycle pictures (and others) are really helpful. Thanks!

Happy to have helped! 

asterlea wrote:

In the section under warmth, it doesn't really explain that the ideal temperature is in the middle of the temperature bar. It is possible to get too hot, which is not good either.

Thank you for pointing this omission out, I have updated the page to clarify.

#23 Re: Main Forum » [guide] Beginner's Guide to Survival, Fire, Farming » 2018-03-06 05:12:08

Thank you both for your feedback; I have re-organized the page such that the environmental guidelines are displayed more prominently and have also included images to help players learn what they should be looking for. 

I will continue to tinker with the page (and the wiki as a whole) whenever I can.

#24 Main Forum » [guide] Beginner's Guide to Survival, Fire, Farming » 2018-03-05 21:07:05

bread_lord
Replies: 11

I have noticed some new players expressing frustration at being stuck in spawn-death loops and not knowing how to accomplish even simple crafting.  As the core population's mastery of the game increases, these new players may be left behind should their communities not have the desire or patience to teach them the very basics.  As a result, I have drafted a rough guide on the wiki that lightly touches on some core game concepts (including the ever-important lessons of environmental sustainability) and outlines in detail how to progress from nothing to farming.  More advanced topics such as baking and blacksmithing are not covered.

Obviously it goes without saying that one who wishes to experience learning entirely within the social confines of the game would do best to avoid this guide, however I hope some find it helpful.  As mentioned it is still in a relatively unpolished state and while I will do my best to maintain it (especially as new information and content patches are made available) it is of course free to be edited and amended by the community as desired.

https://onehouronelife.gamepedia.com/Starting_Guide

#25 Re: Main Forum » Feedback and berry picking loop » 2018-03-01 19:39:12

vfabien21 wrote:

I wonder if it will evolve in long terms ? Will we have some kind of nurseries to improve babies survival rate ?

I've lived in at least two settlements that have indeed implemented a kind of nursery, where all the children are dropped near an active fire (the warmth slows hunger rate) with one Eve to feed them all.  Other settlers bring fuel for the fire and food for the Eve and when she gets too old someone else takes over.  As one such replacement I can say that while it's a bit of a hectic life, it did keep the population growing and provided the opportunity to teach babies the basics without having to worry about finding food and building.

That said, the food supply still tends to be the biggest hurdle.  Even when everyone knows to leave some carrots alone for seeds, sometimes there's just too many people and when the breakdown starts it's hard to stop the spiral.  All part of the collective learning experience, though.

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