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#1 Re: Main Forum » Whoops! Actually, muder rate is betwen 2 and 6%, not 16% » 2018-06-06 21:06:05

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I used the data for all, not just over-20. It looks like Hstrike used the first data set. I find no change in murder rate over time in the second dataset. Unless someone can see some glaring error I missed??

#2 Re: Main Forum » Whoops! Actually, muder rate is betwen 2 and 6%, not 16% » 2018-06-06 20:47:31

Data in table form on Google sheet, including info about day of week (weekends highlighted) and info about content updates!

#3 Re: Main Forum » The mono diet » 2018-06-06 20:34:33

As for cultivation of each type of food being too similar -- I think your model for rose cultivation was a cool idea! You could expand that more. It was really tough to manage, and requires a lot of communication.

#4 Re: Main Forum » Whoops! Actually, muder rate is betwen 2 and 6%, not 16% » 2018-06-06 20:28:47

Hstrike wrote:

The average murder rate over this period is: 3.93%

As you can see, despite the recent hike, we are still experiencing a declining pattern of murder.

https://i.imgur.com/kbCLGJT.png

Rsquare value is too small to be considered significant over such a short period of time tho! So its not fair to say definitively that murder rate is decreasing... behavior of murder rate is inconclusive given the current data.

#5 Re: Main Forum » The mono diet » 2018-06-06 20:26:00

aowen wrote:

I think you're finding difficulty in there are aren't enough meaningful combinations of those 2 variables.

People are unlikely to regularly explore the food tree if they can learn a single food, and get skilled at making that food quickly, as long as that food satisfies hunger.

Another road you can start thinking of is "in what other ways can food be helpful?"

Some one-offs ideas:
- food that changes body temperature for a period of time
- food that makes you faster for a period of time
- food that lets you use more characters when speaking for a period of time ("makes you smarter", to empower children)

This!!!!!!!! This is absolutely the problem with trying to introduce more types of food given the current model of food usage. Food needs to do something besides just fill hunger bar.

Affecting body temp is great -- a few people have mentioned stew, stew is nice and hearty, could have the added benefit of warming you up!

And the increased number of combinations that comes from adding more food effects is cool too -- maybe hot peppers make you fast, but also max out your temp, so there's a utility trade off and they aren't just magic speed juice.

#6 Re: Main Forum » Whoops! Actually, muder rate is betwen 2 and 6%, not 16% » 2018-06-06 20:20:27

Rebel wrote:

ayyyyyy a fellow data scientist.

I would literally love to have access to a bunch of the raw data from OHOL, whip out Rcommander and study how things like certain updates and player load affect life span and type of death...............

@jason hmu, grad school doesn't start up till fall and I have a lot of pent up data-crunching energy to spend............

#7 Re: Main Forum » Whoops! Actually, muder rate is betwen 2 and 6%, not 16% » 2018-06-06 19:26:03

So there was a spike in number of players and a depression of murder rate following the update that introduced new characters and roses. Players peaked and murder rate trough'd following corn/berry/well overhaul update. Players tanked/murder rate spiked shortly after though.

Don't have any good theories as to why in particular, I just love data analysis haha. Conclusion: needs more data.

#8 Re: Main Forum » Whoops! Actually, muder rate is betwen 2 and 6%, not 16% » 2018-06-06 19:15:41

VVRi4cT.png

using "total deaths" as a substitute for "total number of players playing" (since everyone must die), murder rate vs. total number of players is thus. I'd have to do a regression to determine correlation...

(ignore the graph title I forgot to change it lol, should read "all deaths vs murder rate")

#9 Re: Main Forum » Whoops! Actually, muder rate is betwen 2 and 6%, not 16% » 2018-06-06 18:50:18

woah that is going to be fascinating to keep watching... why the murder-spike over labor-day weekend yikes?? more blood-thirsty players at that time?

it would also be interesting to look at murder rate vs. absolute number of players... when there are just more players around, does the whole rate go up? like an over-crowding type of thing?

#10 Re: Main Forum » The mono diet » 2018-06-06 18:41:41

one of the resources that creates each food-niche is time. since time is so limited and precious in game, its not always just a matter of math-ing out the calories for a maximally efficient diet, but also making good use of time. In my experience, that is what dictates which foods are used, not just calorie efficiency.

Say the trapper just got back to camp with a ton of rabbits, but we don't happen to have any threshed wheat lying around. Cooked rabbits aren't the most efficient, but hey we the resources for it, so we cook a bunch of rabbits to sustain us. Rather do that than starve while scrambling to get some wheat. Or say we have a ton of berry bushes and threshed wheat, but no free carrots or rabbits... the trapper is going to need pie to leave camp, so might as well make some berry pie. Even though these foods aren't the *optimum* use of resources by the numbers calorie-wise, they still get used because they are available and time is limited.

So factoring in the time required to produce crops versus the time that food products last creates new niches. Corn is pretty quick to grow in the scheme of things (seeds are easily accessible, especially once you've established a crop, doesn't erase soil, only needs one water), so it makes sense that the food output (popcorn) is minimally helpful. Still has its place in a camp (olds and babies) but it makes sense that it's not a huge time sink.

Carrots are more of a time sink (limited harvest window before it goes to seed), but they are necessary for a number of other things.

I think in adding new types of food, caloric density vs effort required is important to consider, as well as use in other recipes! Right now corn is only useful for popcorn, so it isn't a priority. Whereas carrots are super necessary for lots of things, so they have become valuable.

As you add new types of crops, adding recipes that they can be used in is the way to make them relevant. And making those processed food products have a variety of effects to consider: how filling they are, whether they are portable, whether they have multiple uses (density).

I wonder if you could introduce more types of effects from food besides just filling. You have that model in place with mushrooms. Maybe something like coffee gives you a speed boost? A burrito makes you strong (carry dug rocks faster)?

#11 Re: Main Forum » The mono diet » 2018-06-06 16:50:07

the reason to eat different foods is that they provide different things... pie is labor intensive, but its portable and concentrated so you can bring it with you on a journey. if I'm just hanging out in camp, no way I'm wasting my pie -- berries/popcorn are camp food, because they are stationary.

Assuming burritos are multiple-bite and portable, they might supplant pies. But, pies are still important bc they sink threshed wheat. Basically, every food source is useful in its own way right now -- what niche would burritos fill?

#12 Re: Main Forum » 200 generation run » 2018-05-16 02:56:15

The only resource shortage I've experienced was not being able to find any more wild saplings after I accidentally killed our sapling farm... extremely vital for sign-making, we almost died out...

There are several iron mines I've seen and I don't think we've tapped all of them yet, so I don't think we're close to running out.

We've got a pretty dang sustainable civilization going, and its a really fun little shallow end of the pool for helping new players to learn the ropes with super low pressure! We've had several new players come through and learn about pie making, smithing, sheep keeping, etc!

#13 Re: Main Forum » The story of the child wife » 2018-05-09 02:37:37

Spockulon wrote:

Was it after or before my time there? Hmm..

...Spent my whole life looking for gold to complete the belltower...

Sounds like after your time! All the times I have been killed there, the bell tower has been complete.

I haven't personally been involved in any major wars, but I have been killed by fellow townspeople every dang time, for seemingly no reason haha. There are lots of weapons around, and people go hog wild. Besides that, its a very disorganized town comparatively, which stresses me out!

#14 Re: Main Forum » The story of the child wife » 2018-05-09 02:12:44

Every time I'm born in FUCKS town I book it outta there as soon as I'm old enough... I used to like living in towns but this one is just too wild and lawless for me haha...

#15 Re: Main Forum » when do you keep kids? and when do you abandon them? » 2018-05-09 02:09:05

I mostly like playing as Eve or setting up satellite camps away from the main village when I am born as a girl, so I usually try to give my kids a heads up about the situation and ask them if they are willing to help set up a new settlement.

If they say yes, they tend to have a really high survival rate because we have a common goal.
If they would rather be in a town, then they know that's not what they're gonna get here and they run away.

I am such a sucker for kids that say stuff like "pls" or "ily"... I just can't bring myself to let them die ;~;

#16 Re: Main Forum » Facebook Group? » 2018-05-09 02:00:50

Joriom wrote:

I lost faith in humanity.

smh I am dumb as hell... I just never scroll down on the main page!!! thanks haha

#17 Re: Main Forum » Facebook Group? » 2018-05-08 14:45:23

What is the invite link for the OHOL discord?

#18 Re: Main Forum » Missed Connections » 2018-05-08 02:23:17

Siolfor the Jackal wrote:

Spring, I couldn't get my knife out, but I hope you were able to get it quickly enough to avenge me and keep the town safe. I loved you all.

Mom! I got your knife as soon as you died, but the killer kept moving around so I couldn't get her. She was able to get to another arrow and she shot me while on the run sad As I died, another one of my aunts saw the commotion and came over with a knife. I hope she was able to bring justice! It was such a nice little town... I made so many pies...

#19 Re: Main Forum » Servers as a karma ladder? » 2018-05-02 18:12:47

FeignedSanity wrote:

I just want to take a minute and say how awesome it is to be the linchpin in this whole conversation. Now that I've modestly brushed my ego, I'd like to put some additional thoughts after stewing on it some more. I think the 1st con is the big sticking point. Given the scenario that a city has literally had every single player spawn into it at least once, then a city would die, through no fault of it's own. It's just a matter of player base divided by birth cooldowns. But I ask the question, is it really so bad to not be able to have a lineage live indefinitely? This opinion may differ, but I ponder on just how terrible that would be.

As far as the 3rd con, I really don't think that'd be an issue. If you've spawned into every possible lineage and are just respawning as an eve (or the children of eves), then maybe it's time to take a break. You've probably been playing for a few hours and now might be a good time to get up, get something to eat, maybe sleep, or work, or maybe socialize with IRL people (crazy thought I know XD). You take a small break, and when you come back, the face of the server has changed. New lineages have been born and cultivated and you can start burning through all those civs until break time 6 hours later.

Just additional food for thought I wanted to add. (also against the ability to "buy back" into the lineage)

For the first point - I think a decreased birth rate in a long established city is a fine feature. Early on in a settlement's history, you can rely on new births to maintain the population, but eventually you'll have to send out scouting missions to find new citizens. That's the only way that settlements can keep going after a certain point, which is good because it introduces a challenge that isn't really there currently... once you reach the top of the tech tree and you have a great settlement, the challenge drops off, but the new challenge becomes keeping your utopia populated. You have to return to exploring and venturing to bring in new blood.

For the 3rd con - that's an excellent point wink its like how Nintendo has little reminders in some of their games... like "hey uhh you've been playing for quite a while, maybe pause for a bit to stretch and like drink some water, look at something other than a screen?" Not a drawback at all.

#20 Re: Main Forum » Servers as a karma ladder? » 2018-05-02 17:49:21

jasonrohrer wrote:

Not sure that I've heard the notion of banning everyone from repeat lineage before....


That means that you'd pretty much only get a chance to play in a given city once, unless you migrated back to it with a different lineage later?

Yeah, that certainly aligns with the spirit of the game.


I'm trying to list all of the impacts this would have on the game, and there are tons of them, and many seem to be good:

1.  Every life is truly different, meaningful, precious, fleeting, etc.

2.  Being Eve means something.  You are always founding a new city that has potential to grow into the next mega city.

3.  Being born to an Eve means something (you are one of the new city founders).

4.  Baby suicide won't get you back to the city, but will eventually just stick you as an Eve when you run out of villages to spawn into.

5.  Every baby is precious, because there's a limited supply that will come through your village in the immediate future.  If you let them all die, there will be no one left to be born to your village.  That brand new, clueless player may be your only hope.  Better train them up right.

6.  Enforcement of law has enormous meaning.  Easily deals with repeat, trans-life griefers in the same village.


Negatives:

1.  Every city is always dying through lack of new blood.  Once every active player has played in that city, the city will have no more babies.  This concern might be imaginary, given the ebb and flow of the player pool, time zones, etc.

2.  Seems to subvert the "two tribes" emergent competition.  Villages are supposed to be competing for a greater share of incoming babies based on how good they are at producing food, warmth, etc.  The youngest village automatically has an unnatural, insurmountable advantage.  (Though currently, a young village has no chance if all babies are suiciding there, even if they are better at taking care of babies.)

3.  The longer a player plays in a given day, the less and less interesting the game becomes.  Perhaps they start in some of the biggest cities, but each life is in a less established city, until finally they are stuck being Eve over and over again.


Obviously, a lot of players like working on the same thing life after life.  They want OHOL to be a different game than it's supposed to be, and they will be angry and vocal if I subvert this any further.  I'm not so worried about this, because I do need to make the game I'm trying to make, and not remake minecraft creative mode with parenting or whatever.


I've always wanted dying in this game to be a HOLY FUCK emotionally-rattling moment.  This life is over, I can't believe it, I'll never see any of you again, please remember me, goodbye, I love you all.  I want you to physically weep every time.

I think the game is pretty close to this if you play occasionally.  The first time you live to old age with your grandchildren running around you as you die.

But being born back to the same village in the very next life subverts this somewhat.

Being born back at some point in the future can amplify the meaning, though...  like being born as the grandchild of your granddaughter.

I *love* this! To be honest I actually find myself getting most bored when I am born to the same village, because I lived my life there and completed what I wanted to complete (or didn't!), and once I died people moved on. When I'm reborn, I already know the whole layout and everything but I am a baby so it just takes a frustratingly long time to get back to a place where I can be productive.

So, I don't think the game becomes less interesting necessarily just through playing longer per day. Eve runs are cool, and like you said, it becomes more about a chance to set up your own megalopolis, having lived through others and seen their follies.

Eve-finding missions have become such a cool part of living in an established city... several times now, some of the most poignant moments of my lives have been when I was growing old in an established city and we found ourselves without the possibility for new babies. So we find the youngest of us, kit him out with all our gear (backpack filled with pies, full clothes, a cart and horse if we have it, etc), make sure his home marker is set, and send him out to find an Eve to bring back to our city. Its exciting, it's dramatic, it's sad (we usually know we won't ever see him again, but we're filled with hope that he'll be successful and reinvigorate our town)

Anyway I love this!!! I'm so excited about the potential for this to become a feature, I hate being reborn in the same town over and over and I hate it when others are as well. Its really frustrating when people get super possessive IRL over a particular settlement, and you have all these boss(y) babies running around yelling at you for making changes to their design. Ownership is fake, thats like one of the central tenants of this game, you own nothing, nothing is permanent, move on.

#22 Re: Main Forum » The things you do when you're the last of your people... » 2018-05-01 04:37:56

I almost always try to leave the most organized, well-stocked site I can for any future explorers... playing alone is really the only time you ever get to set things up exactly how you envision them, without other players moving your supplies or anything, so I actually really enjoy surviving as a lone male and setting up my idea of the perfect camp...

I like to leave a forge, kiln, and oven (plus extra adobe for covering kilns), full set of clothes (lately I've been leaving the supplies to make a new backpack too - the furs and a needle and thread, because I know my backpack might decay before travelers arrive). Sometimes a little farm plot, but tbh I don't usually get that far. I just forage and eat rabbits to sustain myself through all my building. If I've gotten a head start by spawning into a modest village, then I just try to make a complete set of tools at least.

Next time I have a life like this I think I'll start laying out a sheep pen. Tending sheep is my favorite part of this game for some reason, I just love setting up their little paddocks.

#23 Re: Main Forum » ok - i won't be playing any family anymore until gameplay improves » 2018-04-29 05:23:43

YAHG wrote:
Jesus Christ wrote:

Man.... Sounds like you just need to get good. I started right before the update and have been having NO trouble staying alive and keeping all my kids alive (The ones who don't get themselves killed).

On a more serious note, you just need to adapt. The game is still really fun, you can't expect to always be able to play the same way when the game is constantly changing and evolving.

Preach it

^^ That good good truth! So sayeth the Lord!

#24 Main Forum » What is your favorite thing about this game? » 2018-04-21 17:11:24

thirdplanet
Replies: 17

I know everyone is all stressed about aspects of the game that they aren't wild about right now, but I think it's a good idea to also focus on the aspects of the game that we love! Like rather than ragging super hard on the negative, we could focus on the positive and make suggestions for how to improve that way.

Personally, I looove making clothes, specifically clothes that you can customize in some way. If you have ever been in a village with someone dyeing all the wool and yelling about how dope everyone's outfits are, that was probably me. One of the most delightful recent additions IMO was fruit boots... the snakeskin boots are already so cool, and being able to add cactus fruit makes them stylish *and* practical. And its a funny nod to the original bug where you could just stick fruit on your feet. I also love making crowns. Basically, my favorite thing is making my character (and my offspring, and any family members or really just anyone nearby that is willing) look super cool.

So, for fun, I think it would be neat if there were more plant dyes added... more colors, or the ability to mix colors. I also desperately want a cactus fruit crown. Or a SNAKE CROWN oh my god!!!!!!!!! More clothing uses for snake skins, please let me make an entire outfit from snakeskin like I can from rabbits. Please. I would look so cool.

So, what is your favorite aspect of the game, and what is a fun element you'd like to see added?

(The idea isn't to discuss how hard the game is or problems or anything like that, there are lots of other threads for that, let's keep this one more positive!)

#25 Re: Main Forum » Build a Utopia with me » 2018-04-21 05:23:33

Is there already a dedicated discord server set up for experienced players? I know about the 2HOL one, but is there a more general one?

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