Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

Arcurus · 2020-05-26 15:28:56

Problem:
the current homeland logic is quite complex and un-intuitive:
- Only vets know how to create a homeland and how homelands work
- You even dont know if someone created a homeland meanwhile
- migration / escape from raid is more difficult since you need to create a new homeland first to get children

As i understand the homeland system is to make sure, that the races stay separated at an certain distance from each other, or are there other reasons i dont know yet?

So why not simply connect the homeland system with giving birth itself?

Possible solutions:
1. Connect homelands with giving birth itself
- A mother can never get a child in an homeland of some one else / she becomes homesick
- The homesick should be constantly displayed in the client until she can get children again / moves to her own homeland or a free homeland
- Every time a mother becomes a baby she claims the land and makes it to her homeland for 10 minutes
- Each further child increases this timer to at max 1 hour

2. Optional solution / dont hinder baby birth, but make it harder to stay close:
- age 3 restriction for the group / strangers in the minority (less allies) and no alliance between different races (this would also reduce drastically stealing from strangers and increase therefore the need for trade.

3. Optional - boost children of the close majority race:
- if a new baby is born there is a 50% change that the baby belongs to the majority race and family (most male members*) even if the mother belongs to another race

With time the minority race would die out.

* Still the child would not know its father (except that it is VOG if religious), but being the last male would not be the end of your family, you could bring an external female which would increase the game-play possibilities to save your family.

i think if solution 2 or 3 are implemented there is no need for separate homelands anymore like solution 1 would still need.
Solution 2 would additionally give more game play possibilities for trade while solution 3 would give more game play possibilities to save your family if you are the last male.

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-26 15:55:15)

Twisted · 2020-05-26 16:39:39

Homelands are already connected to giving birth. Giving birth in a homeland resets the homeland decay timer to 1 hour.

Arcurus wrote:

- Only vets know how to create a homeland and how homelands work

It's not that complicated most of the time. Creating a well site creates a new homeland, having babies in it keeps the homeland alive. The first homeland a family makes creates iron veins.

Arcurus wrote:

- You even dont know if someone created a homeland meanwhile

It's not that important or relevant to know if your family has multiple homelands, the biggest problem is not knowing whether the homeland you're in created iron or not.

Arcurus wrote:

- migration / escape from raid is more difficult since you need to create a new homeland first to get children

It's very easy to create a homeland, just toss ten rocks onto a well site and bam, new homeland. Also raiding is not a thing in the game and likely won't be a thing unless the playerbase becomes much, much bigger. Migration is unfortunately not possible because of the recent iron changes.

Arcurus wrote:

- A mother can never get a child in an homeland of some one else / she becomes homesick

That's how it currently works.

Arcurus wrote:

- The homesick should be constantly displayed in the client until she can get children again / moves to her own homeland or a free homeland

Having a homesick bubble above your head all the time while out of homeland would be very annoying. There would have to be a brand new UI homeland indicator somewhere, similar to the way curse tokens are displayed.

wondible · 2020-05-26 17:59:05

Twisted wrote:

Having a homesick bubble above your head all the time while out of homeland would be very annoying. There would have to be a brand new UI homeland indicator somewhere, similar to the way curse tokens are displayed.

Jason's head, looking down on you with a twinkle in his eye whenever you are fertile.

jasonrohrer wrote:

The multitudes flow forth from my turgid loins!
My essences rain down upon their supple bodies, like the sweet milk of heaven.
VOG is the father of all. And he loves you.

Arcurus · 2020-05-26 18:26:52

Twisted wrote:

Homelands are already connected to giving birth. Giving birth in a homeland resets the homeland decay timer to 1 hour.
Arcurus wrote:
- Only vets know how to create a homeland and how homelands work
It's not that complicated most of the time. Creating a well site creates a new homeland, having babies in it keeps the homeland alive. The first homeland a family makes creates iron veins.

Arcurus wrote:
- You even dont know if someone created a homeland meanwhile
It's not that important or relevant to know if your family has multiple homelands, the biggest problem is not knowing whether the homeland you're in created iron or not.
Arcurus wrote:
- migration / escape from raid is more difficult since you need to create a new homeland first to get children
It's very easy to create a homeland, just toss ten rocks onto a well site and bam, new homeland. Also raiding is not a thing in the game and likely won't be a thing unless the playerbase becomes much, much bigger. Migration is unfortunately not possible because of the recent iron changes.
Arcurus wrote:
- A mother can never get a child in an homeland of some one else / she becomes homesick
That's how it currently works.
Arcurus wrote:
- The homesick should be constantly displayed in the client until she can get children again / moves to her own homeland or a free homeland
Having a homesick bubble above your head all the time while out of homeland would be very annoying. There would have to be a brand new UI homeland indicator somewhere, similar to the way curse tokens are displayed.

thx for the feedback. The homeland indicator i mentioned since in your last video half of the people got lost in the other town without knowing that they have now a homeland and cant have children anymore, maybe the face should go to sad / homesick if they missed a child out of that reason. Yea for you as vet its easy to consider all the aspects with different homelands, but for normal players its kind of mystery, so i tried to reduce complexity and outlined an algorithm how homelands could work without the player needing to know how he creates homelands. The part 1) for sure is designed very close to the current one, but without the need of having well sites that you need to claim which can be especially tricky with all the dry wells (was just thinking about it, since there was a claiming well issue on github).

Further the current homeland system has lot more complexity in the details, what is for example with existing but abounded wells? Now you need to take care of each and every step, which makes the code complex and very un-intuitive for players to understand.

Of course the magical family iron system is even worse, but thats not here the topic.

wondible wrote:

Twisted wrote:
Having a homesick bubble above your head all the time while out of homeland would be very annoying. There would have to be a brand new UI homeland indicator somewhere, similar to the way curse tokens are displayed.
Jason's head, looking down on you with a twinkle in his eye whenever you are fertile.
jasonrohrer wrote:
The multitudes flow forth from my turgid loins!
My essences rain down upon their supple bodies, like the sweet milk of heaven.
VOG is the father of all. And he loves you.

LOOOoolll for sure Jason loves us, otherwise why would he put that much of his time in this game?

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-26 18:30:54)

Spoonwood · 2020-05-26 18:37:24

But from what I hear children lower experienced players gene score in general. So why have children or a homeland?

Arcurus · 2020-05-26 18:51:42

Spoonwood wrote:

But from what I hear children lower experienced players gene score in general. So why have children or a homeland?

lol yea....

because if you have no homeland you get children everywhere except in other homelands, so better create one and stay far from it!

DestinyCall · 2020-05-26 19:40:20

Arcurus wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
But from what I hear children lower experienced players gene score in general. So why have children or a homeland?
lol yea....
because if you have no homeland you get children everywhere except in other homelands, so better create one and stay far from it!

Or live in someone else's homeland.

pein · 2020-05-26 19:54:24

twisted, homelands was your idea no? what was the original concept?

other than blocking mixed families there is no point of it
which I kinda understand with the race concept, and I don't mind being infertile

butt blocking outposts with the iron change was bad, I don't like to stick with other peoples choices, mine won't matter that much then, I do wish sometimes I could start a new town anywhere

I understand that won't solve problems, but maybe a collective choice to move could be viable

I see the confusion created by homelands, very unintuitive to have it pop up and disappear, and bam you infertile, or I even had that as a male that I claimed an outpost then invited a girl, and she didn't see where she went infertile than fertile again since we used horses

I wish we would have zones on the map, each zone could be an amorf shape territory with a central well/mine
you could claim two as eve, then each new one would cost something, splitting would be possible but you would need some starting resources, like a colony stagecoach, shovel, axe, ten stones, bucket, fire tools, some food, etc. when you assemble it, you could use it to drive to a new location and start as a pseudo eve, maybe you would need 2 persons, one male one female and would drop you somewhere else on the map

it would create some strategic layer to have different mines and resources around, like a clay mine or flat rock mine.
families would have a choice and a chance to specialize.

race restrictions could be reworked as race advantages, not a monopoly over biomes, but a cheaper buyout price, so you could get 2 jungles or 1 normal biome as a lattino person, or 2 ice biomes as ginger, while others just 1.
I guess some map changes would be needed, like no fragmented biomes and restrict their sizes between a minimum and maximum size, even fixed or scaling. say you want to claim a desert to enter it, it has say 300 tiles, you pay 300 shmeckels or whatever currency to claim it. you would get a big sulfur hole in the middle which gives you constant sulfur or an oasis or whatever. you could buy any connected zone, the borders would extend, this would require that the biomes are separated into bite-size portions that got a cost. you can interact with what you own, you can't what you don't, but you can change that after a time.
this would make work and skill and decisions matter, build an empire. these 100x100 squares are bs, you don't use it all, just limits you inside kinda forever. eves got the only high authority choices, if yours is a noob, you need one that was lucky/good but died. expansion is free but not required or motivated by gameplay. while resources totally out of your hand, not just limited, totally killed. I don't like the race restrictions cause there is no workaround, it would work better if you could somehow get some rubber on your own but a bit harder than others, but you would have your own bonus that is harder for others. a soft resttricttion while the main content is available for everyone, then you coul plan long term.

Arcurus · 2020-05-26 20:11:45

pein wrote:

...
other than blocking mixed families there is no point of it
which I kinda understand with the race concept, and I don't mind being infertile
butt blocking outposts with the iron change was bad, I don't like to stick with other peoples choices, mine won't matter that much then, I do wish sometimes I could start a new town anywhere
...

the 3. solution would lead to races merge into the majority race, vert easy and logic to understand without the need of homelands. Somehow you will recognize that your kid is from the majority race and not your race anymore if you stay too close to them. All the additional logic with the well claiming would not be needed. This would be lot more easy to understand.

The iron could be done like before the family update, you would need to search and explore for irone and no unlimited iron with engine. You would need to build roads and railroads to bring the iron from more far and far away and protect it.

What was the reason for family mines? Only thing i can understand is that with the current Eve placement eves happen to spawn in exhausted areas, but thats an Eve spawn problem not an iron problem.

Twisted · 2020-05-26 20:16:49

pein wrote:

twisted, homelands was your idea no? what was the original concept?

Just to be clear it wasn't an idea out of the blue, it was a proposed solution to a problem Jason was trying to solve. I don't remember the exact conversation (it was like 2am my time), but Jason wanted to stop every town becoming a mishmash of all four different families eventually (so that you had to go talk to your neighbors to get rubber or whatever). I figured since every town has one and only one well, it made sense to define towns as the area around a well. I think my initial idea was a bb chance boost for people near their well so that if you visit another town's well you probably won't get enough babies to spread your family there.

Blocking mixed families is the entire point of it.

The iron change is really bad, I agree.

Twisted · 2020-05-26 20:19:36

Arcurus wrote:

The iron could be done like before the family update, you would need to search and explore for irone and no unlimited iron with engine. You would need to build roads and railroads to bring the iron from more far and far away and protect it.
What was the reason for family mines? Only thing i can understand is that with the current Eve placement eves happen to spawn in exhausted areas, but thats an Eve spawn problem not an iron problem.

Jason wanted iron to be a limited resource that runs out.

Last edited by Twisted (2020-05-26 20:23:54)

Arcurus · 2020-05-26 20:37:22

Twisted wrote:

Jason wanted iron to be a limited resource that runs out.

yea, but he did the opposite... even with unlimited map there is a limited lifespan to travel to bring iron to a town. So he only would have need to reduce the average iron in an mine to limit it.

Arcurus · 2020-05-26 21:15:13

Twisted wrote:

...
The iron change is really bad, I agree.

can you post that also in the github issue?

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/630

I think fixing iron could bring a lot for gameplay if done right.

Twisted · 2020-05-26 21:54:35

Arcurus wrote:

Twisted wrote:
...
The iron change is really bad, I agree.

can you post that also in the github issue?
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/630
I think fixing iron could bring a lot for gameplay if done right.

Jason knows mine and other people's opinion on that change very well, I don't want to keep repeating myself.

pein · 2020-05-27 07:24:58

yes, I was posting a complaint and he seems really stubborn on the change

I told him that this iron system ruined even further the population/work ratio since there is no benefit of having more people just fewer resources per capita, he still thinks that work balances that out, I really doubt that, a few vets live forever and a lot of noobs die very quick, that is not balanced enough, 90% of the job is moving shit, processing takes a few seconds, the only way of splitting the work is letting others do the processing part but like there is not much reason for that.

Arcurus · 2020-05-27 07:29:57

Twisted wrote:

Arcurus wrote:
Twisted wrote:
...
The iron change is really bad, I agree.

can you post that also in the github issue?
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/630
I think fixing iron could bring a lot for gameplay if done right.
Jason knows mine and other people's opinion on that change very well, I don't want to keep repeating myself.

good, i tried, i failed, so lets proceed with something else...

maybe the iron scarcity was the wrong way to approach the issue, the main issue is more, that it makes migration useless, which Jason was very much in favor in some posts...

and why limiting search and explore game play is good i dont understand, maybe some one can explain Jasons thoughts?

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-27 07:34:45)

JonySky · 2020-05-27 07:44:32

Blocking the births of babies in other homelands is completely contrary to a game that is described as familiar multiplayer
this game is a big ball of contradictions

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-05-26 15:28:56

Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#2 2020-05-26 16:39:39

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#3 2020-05-26 17:59:05

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#4 2020-05-26 18:26:52

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#5 2020-05-26 18:37:24

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#6 2020-05-26 18:51:42

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#7 2020-05-26 19:40:20

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#8 2020-05-26 19:54:24

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#9 2020-05-26 20:11:45

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#10 2020-05-26 20:16:49

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#11 2020-05-26 20:19:36

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#12 2020-05-26 20:37:22

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#13 2020-05-26 21:15:13

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#14 2020-05-26 21:54:35

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#15 2020-05-27 07:24:58

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#16 2020-05-27 07:29:57

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

#17 2020-05-27 07:44:32

Re: Thoughts about the current homeland logic and how to improve

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