Trading

Lovebud · 2020-03-08 11:19:15

Trading is supposed to be fun if people are willing to do it !!! Tbh most people dont they just ignore you so the other day i was in born in a black family and we needed rubber for newcomen boiler so i told them ill go find some in bell town because there are dark people there so i went and i had to beg people to help the jungle was literally right next to them i gave them sulfur and they still wouldn't help so what im doing now is ill make it easier for people if im dark im gonna get every rubber outside the zone so it'll be easier and if im black ill get sulfur out the zone also redheads should help alot for the gold vein ill try to get everything out the zone so this will all be easy for us xD

Lovebud · 2020-03-08 11:20:15

I already took some rubber in a bucket and put it outside i hope you guys find it

Lovebud · 2020-03-08 11:21:16

Please everyone do the sameeee

Dantox · 2020-03-08 11:52:56

it sounds almost like trading was poorly implemented in the game

Lovebud · 2020-03-08 12:28:34

Dantox wrote:

it sounds almost like trading was poorly implemented in the game

Trading is a good idea but no one is willing to help xD lazyasses

Lovebud · 2020-03-08 12:37:29

I think im gonna open a trading shop in every city where i sell an item needed by other races but they have to give me something we need as well

Ruben · 2020-03-08 13:25:23

"Ree my trading won't happen because there is no sense of property, so everyone should act this way instead."

This game does not operate on a family level. Instead, I connect loosely to every player in the game in order to build a town that's barely working.

And what exactly should one own? Tools that degrade? Immovable shelters that serve no purpose?

Simulating ownership in an environment with no time and people will never succeed. Real life can show you how hard it is to actually create something like that. In reality, ownership and trading are very high level concepts that just won't happen anytime soon.

Lovebud · 2020-03-08 13:44:22

Ruben wrote:

"Ree my trading won't happen because there is no sense of property, so everyone should act this way instead."
This game does not operate on a family level. Instead, I connect loosely to every player in the game in order to build a town that's barely working.
And what exactly should one own? Tools that degrade? Immovable shelters that serve no purpose?
Simulating ownership in an environment with no time and people will never succeed. Real life can show you how hard it is to actually create something like that. In reality, ownership and trading are very high level concepts that just won't happen anytime soon.

Ownership did already happen in the game though but ya ill give trading alittle more time people will get to it i mean property fence gate is an ownership

Dantox · 2020-03-08 19:36:24

Lovebud wrote:

Dantox wrote:
it sounds almost like trading was poorly implemented in the game
Trading is a good idea but no one is willing to help xD lazyasses

Never said it was a bad idea, i said it was poorly implemented.

Might not know enough about the topic, but trading is formed by the need of survival or a luxury between 2 or more people, both sides need to feel satistied or feel that they need to do it, and how the system is implemented only small and newer families need desesperately the other to continue survival, while the other just gets a bonus of iron/rope/whatever which isnt really satisfying unless you are keeping inventory of what you have in your town. (And even then, there comes a point when you just have too much iron and becomes worthless for a town)

Hell, with language barriers it make this whole system even harder when you cannot even communicate properly on negotiation, wasting more of your time that you already spent by making a note or travelling to a bell town.

Lovebud · 2020-03-08 19:51:05

Dantox wrote:

Lovebud wrote:
Dantox wrote:
it sounds almost like trading was poorly implemented in the game
Trading is a good idea but no one is willing to help xD lazyasses
Never said it was a bad idea, i said it was poorly implemented.
Might not know enough about the topic, but trading is formed by the need of survival or a luxury between 2 or more people, both sides need to feel satistied or feel that they need to do it, and how the system is implemented only small and newer families need desesperately the other to continue survival, while the other just gets a bonus of iron/rope/whatever which isnt really satisfying unless you are keeping inventory of what you have in your town. (And even then, there comes a point when you just have too much iron and becomes worthless for a town)
Hell, with language barriers it make this whole system even harder when you cannot even communicate properly on negotiation, wasting more of your time that you already spent by making a note or travelling to a bell town.

Oh ya i usually make a note just writing i brought this item or need this item etc but i guess the harder the game gets the better so you can be creative i guess i used to just grief but tbh once the game got harder it interested me more i like something with alittle bit of a puzzle to solve

jasonrohrer · 2020-03-09 16:05:29

Probably these other players just don't have the knowledge to even understand your request or how to fulfill it.

I've been born in Qin town several times over the past few weeks, and there's always water around, but no oil. When I walk around asking people where they're getting water from, nobody knows. Where are you getting oil from? Again, nobody knows. There's no pressure currently, because of water reserves, so they're kinda coasting on the work of previous generations, for now, and they don't need to know right now.

So if you go to a brown village and ask them for rubber sap, most of them probably don't know how to get it, or what it even is that you want, or why you want it, or why they'd want sulfur in return.

This is one reality of a multiplayer game with new players coming in ever day.... and it's okay, I think. It's not all that different from going into some isolated jungle village in real life and trying to get them interested in some lithium ion batteries. They're like, "Huh?"

Also, this is part of what I mean about the "social challenge" of this kind of cross-cultural cooperation. Once you find them, there's no guarantee that they will cooperate with you, for a whole host of reasons.

Maybe you have to teach them how/why rubber is good, across the language barrier... and THAT is what I mean by "social puzzle gameplay."

It's the kind of thing you read about in philosophy or anthropology books.... but here you are, actually doing it, in a video game.

Standing there shouting "gavagai".... (look it up)

Lovebud · 2020-03-09 18:23:58

jasonrohrer wrote:

Probably these other players just don't have the knowledge to even understand your request or how to fulfill it.
I've been born in Qin town several times over the past few weeks, and there's always water around, but no oil. When I walk around asking people where they're getting water from, nobody knows. Where are you getting oil from? Again, nobody knows. There's no pressure currently, because of water reserves, so they're kinda coasting on the work of previous generations, for now, and they don't need to know right now.
So if you go to a brown village and ask them for rubber sap, most of them probably don't know how to get it, or what it even is that you want, or why you want it, or why they'd want sulfur in return.
This is one reality of a multiplayer game with new players coming in ever day.... and it's okay, I think. It's not all that different from going into some isolated jungle village in real life and trying to get them interested in some lithium ion batteries. They're like, "Huh?"
Also, this is part of what I mean about the "social challenge" of this kind of cross-cultural cooperation. Once you find them, there's no guarantee that they will cooperate with you, for a whole host of reasons.
Maybe you have to teach them how/why rubber is good, across the language barrier... and THAT is what I mean by "social puzzle gameplay."
It's the kind of thing you read about in philosophy or anthropology books.... but here you are, actually doing it, in a video game.
Standing there shouting "gavagai".... (look it up)

Oh i had sulfur to trade it back haha i love the idea of trading but ya i sow you btw in the town when you asked where are you getting the water from i was the one who asked you to marry me haha then my mom chased you because you wouldn't marry me....

Anyway yes i would show them how but they dont even reply tbh but today i spent the wholeee day finding a Tarry spot and looking for oil with 0 help did it all on my own lol

Whatever · 2020-03-09 21:05:30

jasonrohrer wrote:

I've been born in Qin town several times over the past few weeks, and there's always water around, but no oil. When I walk around asking people where they're getting water from, nobody knows. Where are you getting oil from? Again, nobody knows. There's no pressure currently, because of water reserves, so they're kinda coasting on the work of previous generations, for now, and they don't need to know right now.

The reason because no one knows is because 99% of the people dont know how to get oil.
Please make logs to see how many % of all players have ever gathered oil or made an engine.

wondible · 2020-03-09 21:10:34

Whatever wrote:

Please make logs to see how many % of all players have ever gathered oil or made an engine.

Technically possible now, though it would take some work. (and "made" and engine is especially tricky to measure)

sigmen4020 · 2020-03-09 21:18:08

wondible wrote:

Whatever wrote:
Please make logs to see how many % of all players have ever gathered oil or made an engine.
Technically possible now, though it would take some work. (and "made" and engine is especially tricky to measure)

I think maybe tracking how many people have made a diesel driver assembly (last step before engine is complete) and have added the bit to an oil rig might be a good indication. Or maybe if possible track who have achieved a gushing oil rig, but that might be more difficult

Whatever · 2020-03-09 21:29:09

wondible wrote:

Whatever wrote:
Please make logs to see how many % of all players have ever gathered oil or made an engine.
Technically possible now, though it would take some work. (and "made" and engine is especially tricky to measure)

Oh right, i forgot about those logs, but i think its not logging the player hash, so you cant track players over several lives.
Cant find out how many % of all players did something, maybe how many % of all lives lived made something.

EDIT: Oh but maybe you can use the playerId to get the hash, i see

Last edited by Whatever (2020-03-09 21:38:34)

Lovebud · 2020-03-09 22:14:34

Whatever wrote:

wondible wrote:
Whatever wrote:
Please make logs to see how many % of all players have ever gathered oil or made an engine.
Technically possible now, though it would take some work. (and "made" and engine is especially tricky to measure)
Oh right, i forgot about those logs, but i think its not logging the player hash, so you cant track players over several lives.
Cant find out how many % of all players did something, maybe how many % of all lives lived made something.
EDIT: Oh but maybe you can use the playerId to get the hash, i see

Its easy i made oil when i was a red head but the hard part is you have to be only a red head to get it if there are no read heads ur skewered also you would need rubber means you have to travel so ya ur right its hard xD but thankfully the family i was in had rubber and i was a ginger so

wondible · 2020-03-10 01:49:58

Whatever wrote:

Please make logs to see how many % of all players have ever gathered oil or made an engine.

Actually not too hard to hack.

Since id maplogs, about 320 lives by 158 accounts have performed:

'2303', # Firing Oil Drilling Rig
'2311', # Firing Oil Pumpjack

Out of approximately (I didn't set the date too precisely) 17386 accounts

So roughly 0.9%

I don't know how to measure engines since all the parts are moveable.

schmloo · 2020-03-10 02:51:15

Trading does not work, because the game punishes greed and rewards altruism with one of its foundation goals: build a civilisation. There is no sense in having personal property beyond your own backpack, because it hinders the productivity of a town, be it a small effect in a large town or a huge effect in a small camp. There is no reason to do anything for your own personal benefit and sacrificing the benefits of the town if your goal is to help said-town. Multiracial towns (notably belltowns) will always find a way to work out somehow, since there is no downside to having all races working together, let alone giving away to towns for nothing in return because the enjoyment for people who work to see towns thrive is, amazingly, seeing towns thrive.

You’re probably not going to get anything in return for what you do, and that’s fine. Maybe a grave if someone’s feeling generous, and you managed to bond with them somehow. Bit of gene score to bring a bad effect of less tool slots back to a neutral effect. But nothing rewarding besides seeing a town thriving.

Whatever · 2020-03-10 06:04:10

wondible wrote:

'2303', # Firing Oil Drilling Rig
'2311', # Firing Oil Pumpjack
Out of approximately (I didn't set the date too precisely) 17386 accounts
So roughly 0.9%

thanks for the info

Elsayal · 2020-03-10 11:44:01

schmloo wrote:

Trading does not work, because the game punishes greed and rewards altruism with one of its foundation goals: build a civilisation. There is no sense in having personal property beyond your own backpack, because it hinders the productivity of a town, be it a small effect in a large town or a huge effect in a small camp. There is no reason to do anything for your own personal benefit and sacrificing the benefits of the town if your goal is to help said-town. Multiracial towns (notably belltowns) will always find a way to work out somehow, since there is no downside to having all races working together, let alone giving away to towns for nothing in return because the enjoyment for people who work to see towns thrive is, amazingly, seeing towns thrive.
You’re probably not going to get anything in return for what you do, and that’s fine. Maybe a grave if someone’s feeling generous, and you managed to bond with them somehow. Bit of gene score to bring a bad effect of less tool slots back to a neutral effect. But nothing rewarding besides seeing a town thriving.

I like this point of view
Seems true to me.

pein · 2020-03-11 11:04:38

funny thing: i had all resources to make the engine but i didn't wanted to assemble until the Newcommen was empty since we had no iron and only one water tank
some newbie came and assembled it
Ended up with an engine but nobody could empty the newcommen since it was no iron or tank anywhere

it was still a rift life and that town looked dumb as hell so i rather took the engine the next life

so, lot of people know how to assemble an engine but miss details like this, and a lot of people don't know how to do it from scratch or to follow up on somebody else, takes a bit of skill and observation to see what the town is missing, so if you are slow, nobody will finish the work

so this is kind of a problem of trade: no continuity or loyalty to a family or team, items are not owned by anyone and stealing them is not a skill issue, like in Rust you can grind or PVP for it, defend with a wall, continue from there, here isn't really an option to do so

cachinnus · 2020-03-11 11:56:04

Kind of silly, but I also wonder if a small part of this is a sandbox issue or a bystander issue? A lot of players seem lost or unsure of what is happening in their towns. A lot of babies come in and their first words are, "Job?" A lot of panicky or bad situations I find myself playing are just because a job has gone untouched. Is someone hunting rabbits? Is someone collecting firewood? Is someone making tools? Shrugs all around.

Not that they aren't easily fixed, but if you take one piece out of the tower the whole thing crumbles. How do you recognize surplus if you're scrambling for necessities? How do you supply someone for a trading trip if you don't have excess food to send them off with, a cart for them to take, clothes for them to wear?

Leadership could be helpful, but in this game style it seems inconsistent and possibly oppressive. Maybe someone with followers could suggest, "We need ___," and someone could reply, "I'll do ___," and their job title could be assigned.

Elsayal · 2020-03-11 12:58:10

I just said : "we need a hoe (to forge one) and wood (firewood), I can do one, can someone get wood or do hoe ?"
Then both job were filled. Just like that.

cachinnus · 2020-03-11 14:37:40

Elsayal wrote:

I just said : "we need a hoe (to forge one) and wood (firewood), I can do one, can someone get wood or do hoe ?"
Then both job were filled. Just like that.

Mm, it's great when you find a helpful person. That is a happy situation for you and I'm glad. They are problems that can be easily fixed! I am not typically so lucky. I'll normally wind up half-baking a couple jobs rather than enjoying one.

Should it really get to the point where you have no hoes or no firewood, though? One "bad" generation can stall a town out. When it happens, is it willful or is it ignorance? I've seen both. One you can help.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-03-08 11:19:15

Trading

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