LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

miskas · 2019-10-29 22:30:45

I made a mistake! I was sleepy I guess, sorry.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … 7&range=A1

Steel Axe and Steel Hoe are cheaper.
I will never do excel again before sleep

Last edited by miskas (2019-10-30 05:22:25)

luckynmd · 2019-10-29 23:42:35

Wow! This is a big difference, I had no idea I was such a waster of water and food... Sorry all! Please don't hesitate to share this info in game!

(EDIT)
Ho ok then, steel tools it is.

Last edited by luckynmd (2019-10-30 22:52:30)

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2019-10-30 00:13:35

Where are you doing this math? I don't see any water involved in making a steel hoe?

Coconut Fruit · 2019-10-30 00:27:42

miskas wrote:

Axe for kindling is also 10 times worse than a hatchet.

0.3 water means 0.3 bowls of water? How are you counting it? Making a rope costs 4 bowls of water (+ water that you spend for soil)

An axe has about 100 uses. 2 broken steel tools = one free steel ingot. There is also tons of free iron before diesel mine.
Compared to hatchet that has about 40 uses...

This must be some kind of troll topic

pein · 2019-10-30 01:32:02

well, the tool update is a game-changer, I still won't use hatchet if I need to use an axe and that rules out this inconvenience.

the amount of cisterns is too damn low, each stone hoe wasting a stone, which is also limited, it's a major problem long term
iron was a major problem until it wasn't we didn't have the option to mine it.
Plus you calculated it, but you missed out your own calculation. A rope cost 8 soil and 4 water plus 4 uses out of 21 of that stone hoe, which is not fixed, more like 12 to 35 so that's more like 20-33% of that stone hoe. And it's even slower in the long term as you need to make the replacement, 2,5 times faster. So that possibly indicates more straight branches which assume you scavenge or plant them.
Plus a steel hoe is 1 iron and not a half (0.66 if you count the scrap, which can decay if not used up), and that water cost dunno where it cames from but there is no direct water cost until you run out of mines.

There is only a tiny bit of water cost to gather iron, which is the newcommen running, which has a high skill requirement, the water, in that case, is negligible, you got 5 oil per map, you likely gather all of them if you find it, you need cores and stones and other stuff, and a skill to find it, likely with horse, make road to it, there is no other option to dodge the water cost on smithing, some skill and maybe 2 people working on it can save up some, but it's still essential.

then the kerosene requires water but technically pays back itself, same for the newcommen, you can't count as a water cost, it gives back the water, and likely needs a cistern to get it out, the main problem is getting enough charcoal for it which is a lot of work and not too fun

iron was always something luxury, you can optimise it, you can spare it a bit, but in the end, it's not something you can spare forever, so might as well just spend it to save time. not on duplicate tools tho.

optimization is a strange thing, you need to think ahead, it's a good mechanic, you do a job, get profit for, you raise sheep, you get dung and meat, fleece, you plant wheat, you get compost and pies, full circle with a profit on soil, using some water, still you can't count water as an expense, is more of a requirement.

it's quite different than deliberately planting more bushes or eating berries. thing is, if you could produce more than you consume, berry munching is fine, not the most optimal, but doesn't hurt others. But that's not what's happening. People overplant, and don't use the only benefit of bushes, the recharge without tilling.

Using 2 soil is essential, steel hoe is a luxury, you still need more stone hoes to do the same job, I had my kid telling me that we should use 1 soil. Soil is cheap I told him, it is now he said. Well, that's dumb as fuck, the soil is always cheap if you do the work. You get like 70% profit on compost? Sure it uses a shovel and some water but it's still a lot. So if you double the hoe use on it then you would lose all advantage for saving time. Like there are some situations when you need to produce food fast but jumping on a horse, getting some wild wheat, making pie, even getting wild carrots and wild berries for compost can be done within 5 minutes.

Basically you got a cost of staying alive and it adds up in the city. How many times do you see people making compost and planting milkweed?

Last edited by pein (2019-10-30 01:34:44)

wondible · 2019-10-30 01:38:52

QuirkySmirkyIan wrote:

Where are you doing this math? I don't see any water involved in making a steel hoe?

Took me a bit to figure out. I think this is using the amount of water or iron received per kerosine charge to establish a conversion rate and reduce everything to bowls of water.

Personally I haven't used stone hoes because having tools break is just annoying, and farming milkweed can be tedious. I have tended to prefer hatchets though - saves iron and doesn't feel like it breaks fast enough to be really annoying.

jcwilk · 2019-10-30 01:59:49

pein wrote:

I had my kid telling me that we should use 1 soil. Soil is cheap I told him, it is now he said. Well, that's dumb as fuck

I have nothing to contribute here except that I wanted to make sure no one skimmed past this gleaming gem

pein · 2019-10-30 02:10:39

oh yeah 0.5 is kinda close for iron cost as you always get back a broken tool which is a half steel

you get 5 iron profit on a kerosene charge which would be 7 buckets of water pouring into well
which is 5 iron to 70 water so iron is 14 water? so half iron is 7 but that is completely neglecting charcoal cost and job to make the kero
ground and mined iron is cheaper a bit

Coconut Fruit · 2019-10-30 04:57:38

One kerosene actually gives 6 iron which equals 12 tools. That's not even 6 bowls of water for one steel tool. People should never craft hatchets or even worse stone hoes (except that one hatchet that is needed to start a town).
It's not only a big waste of water to make these two stone tools but also it is very time consuming to make them, not to mention that planting milkweed also breaks tools.

Edit: mb, one kerosene gives 5 iron since diesel mine requres a chisel. Still steel tools are more efficient.

Last edited by Coconut Fruit (2019-10-30 16:04:09)

miskas · 2019-10-30 05:16:00

LOL guys ! wrong cell! Doing Excel late at night is not advised.

Gomez · 2019-10-30 15:17:57

whats funny is I needed no excel to know that a steel axe and hoe are cheaper...no milkweed bud that shits expensive.

Iron also feels very abundant double hoe'ing rows should probably always be done now not sure on the math check that one out? .

Last edited by Gomez (2019-10-30 15:23:17)

pein · 2019-10-31 00:55:47

Gomez wrote:

whats funny is I needed no excel to know that a steel axe and hoe are cheaper...no milkweed bud that shits expensive.
Iron also feels very abundant double hoe'ing rows should probably always be done now not sure on the math check that one out? .

after initial investments
one seed row and 6 hardened rows
8 bowl of soil and 7 water makes 30 carrots
6 soil and 6 water refills bushes which is 42 berries, 7 bowls
24 soil 24 water makes 28 bowls of berries
that needs 14 wheat which is 28 soil 14 water
plus 7+14 tilling which is around 3 water, and 14 shovel charge which is around 2 more
then 14 water on the composts

so for 28 berry bowls, you get 14 dung and 14 compost
that will cost you 14 shovel uses and 74 soil and 65 water from which around 5 for tool uses
14 compost is 14x21 soil 294 soil
so for 220 soil, you pay 70 water (again not exact cause tool uses, but round this way)
not counting the pies and meat ofc. so soil is around 3.1428 times (almost pi 3.14159) cheaper than water (shovel is more sensitive than hoe so dunno how much it costs using it)

so using 1 soil would put double uses on hoe, which saves a bit of time and soil
220 soil either makes 220 rows single or 110 double
each hoe is around 51 uses so you need 4.5 hoes to till 220 tiles
7.3 uses of steel hoe cost 1 water
so tilling 110 tiles will cost you 15.06 water, tilling 220 cost you 30.12 water
that 15 extra water is just 47 soil
doubling the compost making would cost you double the shovel charges (so around 14 charges which if equal to hoe, would be like 2 water), some time and work

so you save 110 soil which is 35 water by tilling twice using 15 water
that's actually positive if you don't count the kindling, the recycling, the new shafts and the work going into the smithing a new hoe

so if 1 iron is 14 water
1 water is 3.15 soil
then 1 iron is around 44 bowl of soil (11 basket or 1.5 compost)
a kerosene charge is 70 water which makes 220 soil, a kerosene makes exactly 14 compost piles not counting the amount you need to reinvest to make more compost piles (74 out of 294, so 25% is always tied down)

if I'm not mistaken somewhere
this again, 110 soil saving by double tilling is saving you a bit less than 3 iron which is 6 new hoes

this again not counting that you can make a lot of mutton pies and fleece and not calculating kindling, long shaft costs or the cost and time of smithing new hoes

mining iron costs a lot of water it seems and the tool usage seems to be more sensitive to producing soil then tilling it which is kinda surprising
but we had a nerf on water and on the compost output too so that kinda went over our head

I mean these numbers come from the equation of the kerosene used on well vs on iron mining
if you can mine out a vein or get some wild wheat, soil is much cheaper to make

certainly easier to make compost than getting 1 iron in some cases

it's kinda weird that the multiple water nerfs sent us into this weird state

Last edited by pein (2019-10-31 10:40:36)

Gomez · 2019-10-31 02:54:21

nice dude thanks for solid number crunch the additional logistics is what pushed me over the edge to til one soil

miskas · 2019-10-31 10:43:39

I confirm

1 soil costs 0.26 water and an extra steel hoe use cost 0.14 (=1/51/2*70/5)

Last edited by miskas (2019-10-31 10:50:34)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-10-29 22:30:45

LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#2 2019-10-29 23:42:35

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#3 2019-10-30 00:13:35

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#4 2019-10-30 00:27:42

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#5 2019-10-30 01:32:02

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#6 2019-10-30 01:38:52

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#7 2019-10-30 01:59:49

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#8 2019-10-30 02:10:39

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#9 2019-10-30 04:57:38

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#10 2019-10-30 05:16:00

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#11 2019-10-30 15:17:57

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#12 2019-10-31 00:55:47

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#13 2019-10-31 02:54:21

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

#14 2019-10-31 10:43:39

Re: LOL guys wrong cell! Stone hoe/ steel hoe!

Board footer