The arc ended again.

LunyTerror · 2019-09-12 16:19:40

Griefer twins killed all the onion's and so the arc ended.

Dodge · 2019-09-12 16:29:41

Yeah the current end of the arc conditions makes murder griefing the most attractive, they take it has a challenge to reset the arc...

Maybe there should be eve tokens for each arc, if families go under 3-4 a new Eve spawns and uses a token, when no more token the arc ends, also doubling the time to heal people before they die would be nice.

This would make the end condition less unstable and the arc wouldn't randomly end, maybe there could be an Eve counter on the main page so you know if the arc is about to end.

Morti · 2019-09-12 16:32:34

Just when my town walls were starting to go ancient.

I'd love to get an early start on a new town but I'm tired.

Someone else should really try making 2x2 or 3x3 town walls in the corners. It's pretty easy, just make a small camp in the corner, enough to make adze, shovels and chisel whenever you need it. Gotta have an adze though, as well as an ax, need about 1 mallet for every 20-30 big hard rocks. Generally the trees you cut out of the way give enough butt logs for the mallets, but you might need to take down a few pines for some extra.

Scout out the corners and try to include oil and iron, bonus if you get all the wells dug and find a place with some other nice resources, clay and soil in particular. Swamp is at the opposite end of desert and tundra though, I honestly would even make too much of a farm to start, just get all the cactus and gooseberry bush locations memorized.

See ya in a few hours.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-12 18:01:25

The short arc length is really discouraging. I would like to build some cool village designs, but every time I log back in to check on the progress, we are back down to two families and about to wipe.

Twisted · 2019-09-12 18:12:38

I'm still holding out hope that the whole Arc/Rift concept will be scrapped. We've had a month and a half of fixes and tweaks and despite all that I still think the pre-Arc era was a lot more enjoyable. It's just so samey these days.

I'm always reminded of Jason's GDC talk where he says that creating Unique Situation Generators is the way to go, and I find it a bit sad that the Rift (almost definitely unintentionally) decreased life variety by so much.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-12 18:39:07

I like the ability to return to past villages/families and the ability to locate where you are by using rift borders as unique landmarks. The playspace is much (much) smaller, but at least you can't get completely lost if you run away from home and forget to place a home marker.

I do think the concept needs work, especially the whole "arc" idea. I really dislike the random wipes. There is very little motivation to continue playing when we hit two families, because you KNOW that griefing will be sky high and the end is inevitable. There is no way to generate a new family if you want the game to continue, so it is just a slow battle against entropy and entropy always wins. With the help of players actively griefing, it isn't even a slow process.

There needs to be either a different end condition that does not encourage wiping out villages or some way to reverse the slow attirition of family names over time. Perhaps when a family declares PEACE, the elders who forged peace will respawn as Eves in their next life.

StrongForce · 2019-09-12 19:27:22

If you die of old age 5 times in a row you should get an eve token. If that is possible the rift is still lifeable, but it's hard enought to not flood the rift with new familys

DestinyCall · 2019-09-12 20:58:39

Umm ... I pretty much always die of old age, except when I forget to feed myself and starve at 58 years old. Darn silent hunger bell. Why you dying so much? :-P

....

But seriously, there needs to be a way to make new families after the Eve window closes. Eve tokens, marriage, Peace Eves, whatever ... we need something to fight against attrition and lost families or we won't be able to survive past 48 hours due to night-time baby droughts.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-09-12 21:31:30

It's not the arc end conditions bad but greffers are. Grieffers feel safe, punishment is almost unnoticeable.
miskas' brilliant replacement for Donkeytown actually didn't work and made greffing more common. One grieffer can easily kill whole town and that happens very often. I think that's the reason apocalypses happen that often.
How to fight grieffers? IMO perfect system would be where we could watch replays from whole gameplay and report players directly from there. Something like cs go overwatch. It won't probably happen since it would be lots of coding to implement this.
For now I think we should come back to donkey town system and people that deserved going there should be there for at least 3 days. There is no workaround for grieffers other than punishing them.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-09-12 21:38:09

Adding replay thing could be also useful in analysing why families die out.
I heard there is some kind of replay but it's broken... I never tried it. It would be cool if you could download log data from previous arc and watch whole replay as spectator and see whole map and all things

wondible · 2019-09-12 21:55:43

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Adding replay thing could be also useful in analysing why families die out.
I heard there is some kind of replay but it's broken... I never tried it. It would be cool if you could download log data from previous arc and watch whole replay as spectator and see whole map and all things

Player map changes (but not players themselves) is a thing you can do

https://onemap.wondible.com

Spoonwood · 2019-09-12 23:47:27

Twisted wrote:

I'm still holding out hope that the whole Arc/Rift concept will be scrapped. We've had a month and a half of fixes and tweaks and despite all that I still think the pre-Arc era was a lot more enjoyable. It's just so samey these days.
I'm always reminded of Jason's GDC talk where he says that creating Unique Situation Generators is the way to go, and I find it a bit sad that the Rift (almost definitely unintentionally) decreased life variety by so much.

I'm glad to see that Twisted has openly and clearly disagreed with Jason. It's also refreshing to find someone else who isn't saying 'The Rift is ok, it just needs tweaking' as has seemed so common, when the reports, and I think the numbers also, suggest that The Rift idea can't get said to have worked out well.

sigmen4020 · 2019-09-12 23:59:49

Spoonwood wrote:

Twisted wrote:
I'm still holding out hope that the whole Arc/Rift concept will be scrapped. We've had a month and a half of fixes and tweaks and despite all that I still think the pre-Arc era was a lot more enjoyable. It's just so samey these days.
I'm always reminded of Jason's GDC talk where he says that creating Unique Situation Generators is the way to go, and I find it a bit sad that the Rift (almost definitely unintentionally) decreased life variety by so much.
I'm glad to see that Twisted has openly and clearly disagreed with Jason. It's also refreshing to find someone else who isn't saying 'The Rift is ok, it just needs tweaking' as has seemed so common, when the reports, and I think the numbers also, suggest that The Rift idea can't get said to have worked out well.

Yeah, at this point I can’t imagine the rift ever being more enjoyable than the infinite world. I’ve had a few good lives recently during the Eve window. Thing is that I feel I almost only have good lives at the beginning of the arc. My late arc lives have tended to be awful. I don’t play that often anyway, so I’m thinking of just playing in Eve window only. The game is a lot more fun when everything hasn’t been griefed yet. The late arcs lack of resources really isn’t fun.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2019-09-13 00:02:32)

DestinyCall · 2019-09-13 01:23:58

I'd be a lot happier in the Rift, if we had more options for renewal and sustainable living. What I like about the early game play is NOT when I run out of food and starve. It is when I successfully balance various goals and achieve a functional camp that is able to provide for the next generation.

Resources run out in an early camp, but we have new tools and new tech that let us access useful resources to continue forward. As the surrounding world gets "used up", it is much harder to do basic things. Without ground iron, you are pretty much stuck living in an established town, because you can't do anything else. And if your town lacks iron and oil, you are already dead, even if it takes a few generations for people to notice. That is not a good feeling at all, especially when you are aware enough to recognize the problem but the game does not provide any reasonable solutions. I cannot leave on an epic hunt for iron when I'm caged by the Rift.

Psykout · 2019-09-13 01:49:33

Donkeytown/Exilement

8-10 Curses to exile

Infinite World

Scarce Resources (food/trees/rocks/water) 1/4 to 1/2 the normal spawning rate of the rift.

Remove +2 bonus food (berry munching to old age not viable)

Increase Predators (x2-x3)

2hr stay
Deaths increase stay by .25-.5 life lived
Dying at <40 would add .5 yrs/lived to curse time
Dying at >40 would add .25 yrs/lived to curse time
Dying at >50/55 would add no extra time

Make those cursed have to struggle to get out. Make them frustrated, make them dread getting exiled. Make them contemplate very hard, do they want to continue down this path or shape up and be a functioning member.

Maybe tweak the numbers to not be THAT intense, but you get the picture. Punishments should at least fit the crime. Making normal players suffer when you do not risk having to do the same is not working.

Given that natural food is very scarce, and trying to outgame the system by being nomadic is fraught with danger, they would have to learn to work together. Potential to reform

Blessing
1 Bless Token per/hr

Bless token grants +1 Curse Token and removes 1 curse that is on you. Cursing someone removes 1 Bless Token from the player.

Can only be blessed once per hour by any/all players. When attempting to bless someone that has already been blessed does not work, similar to when you try and curse someone when you don't have a token. Can not receive a bless token if you have been cursed in the past 1-2hrs

Accumilating 10-15 Bless Tokens, Count is reset and you are granted an Eve Token that on death can be chosen to be used or is only consumed if <X families reside inside the rift. Rift conditions remain the same for a reset.

I will stlll always argue that having only a negative token (curses) and no positive token (Bless) feels wrong. There is no Yin to the Yang there, only negative reinforcement. Simultaneously you would increase curse tokens and give certain players a chance to save the rift. It would be in the players hands to who gets extra curses and who could save the rift. Getting cursed has a short term negative and a long term negative. Blessing someone would have a short term positive of removing a potentially misplaced curse and a long term positive of Eve Token. Griefers that have been cursed recently can not bless each other to try and manipulate the system and rack up curse tokens among each other nor could they remove them faster than the larger normal playerbase through positive blessings.

Just my 2 cents.

Last edited by Psykout (2019-09-13 01:53:54)

Morti · 2019-09-13 03:10:04

The killers are exploiting the zoom mods, using them you are all easy pickings. ALL OF YOU.

It doesn't matter what color you make adobe walls or clothing.

It doesn't matter that you make engines; you're only mass producing iron which means the landscape is littered in knives and swords.

Your only recourse is to sit, huddled together by the fire, and that is where they get you the worst.

They spawn as your children and turn you against each other. Because you, are a sucker for a stabbing.

Then when people get sick and tired of you stabbing children for all sorts of stupid excuses, they spread out again, to get away from you.

That's when they get picked off.

Over, and over, and over.

You can't keep the food supply up standing around not doing work. Work takes up space.

You can't keep the fire going, let alone 2 or three of them, when you aren't replanting trees for firewood. Otherwise you have to go farther and farther to get it, and that's when you get picked off.

If you value your life, you have to become paranoid of every stranger, and who wants to play like that? Not good people.

Not the kind of people Jason's ads attract.

Not the kind of people you turn away, with your hourly witch hunts.

And if you don't start them, they will, and there isn't shit you're going to do to stop them, any of you.
Whether you have a weapon, or not.

This shit spiral has been twisting downward since the moment people started abandoning their children for their own sake. Then people started selectively abandoning boys. All the while you have people like Twisted suiciding on players that wanted a chance to be good mothers, rather than accepting the hand he was dealt the very first life, as was Jason's intention for game. So you broke the good people down to the point they no longer wanted to play, and that's what the game has become.
Either you are breaking people down, getting them to not want to play, or you're being broken down.

And you will break.

The game is all about producing things from nothing, whether it be good relationships, or good products. If you value either of those things, (and of course you do, right? Otherwise why'd you buy the game?) well, they can both be taken away from you, by someone else. You can either be a good person to people, be an asshole, or be a loner and avoid the shit show, altogether. Or go play something else. Write an angry letter to Jason. He just loves knowing how his product make your lives miserable. Gives em a big old fuckin hard on. Even Ms. Rohrer will thank you for that!

Dodge · 2019-09-13 04:49:51

Morti wrote:

The killers are exploiting the zoom mods, using them you are all easy pickings. ALL OF YOU.
...

I agree with the message (not the delivery...)

I dont care that regular players use zoom mod too

Most players use the default client and it will always be like that.

Griefers use the zoom to choose their target from a distance then aproach them and kill them.

By the the time you see them aproach you it's already too late.

With the zoom griefers will always have a big advantage over 90% of players that dont use this mod.

Just remove all the mods, they are almost all used to meta game, grief or spam emotes to annoy people anyway.

It's great to have an open source game that can be modded but it should be part of something separate like 2HOL or crucible and not the main game.

Anhigen · 2019-09-13 08:06:32

The arc ends we're playing with are interesting, but not fun, for some people. There's something to be said about how players shift from people producing villages and towns while the world is open and new, to trying to kill off the remaining families when tech reaches it's cap or when the remaining family number gets too low to resist... Like, these greifers aren't just logging on to grief, and only grief, they live lives as "normal" players all the time. They didn't buy the game to just greif either, they still play the game like most of us do. But they do also grief, or--and I think more accurately--switch their play style to be adversarial. I wonder what makes them switch.

I'm sure, in the way that the mother/child mechanic and interaction creates a sense of family in this game, that group activities, efforts, and jobs will create a sense of comradery. Like, right now there isn't a meaningful way to interact with other players. You might say hi, or emote, and if you have a new player maybe you'll show them a task. But outside of teaching someone a skill, the only meaningful or impactful play we have with one another is a knife to the guts. The "community work" in OHOL is still designed around solo play with zero player interaction but as that changes and we gain the ability to work together and achieve cool things--not just by playing beside one another but with--we'll also see cool and interesting behavior changes in players. Exciting stuff that without a doubt is on the horizon but we play faster than that track can get laid, so to speak. Until then the "bunch of solo players forced to survive in, and share, a persistent world" thing can easily lose it's novelty for people.

Still a fan of the rift, if that's not clear. I just think it's a way better option; need we bring up No Man's Sky? Biomes can be more usefully generated in a finite map and resources better designed. For instance, we have so many rabbit holes right now. In a finite world you can reduce the number of holes and increase the regeneration--you know so they actually breed like rabbits--all the while maintaining a similar level of "production". In a well designed finite world you're not using up as much land on indestructible rabbit holes (the added bonus is that this would feel more like you're hunting them than tripping over them) but in an infinite world you're always going to have scarcity issues that force the needless ubiquity. Resources shouldn't feel absolutely abundant and yet remain non-interactive for almost the entire time you play. That's such a waste of an asset but isn't really an issue in a infinite world; there's always more resources for you to interact with.

So, I think the rift is a good thing because it highlights these issues; OHOL is boring because most of the elements are non-interactive and players have limited options for meaningful interactions. That's changing tho so... yay.

Last edited by Anhigen (2019-09-13 16:32:19)

Dodge · 2019-09-13 09:19:57

Anhigen wrote:

...

100% agree, currently it's a solo game where people play together.

You dont need anybody else to do anything and there is no incentive for meaningful interactions.

I can play an entire game without talking to anybody and i would do just fine probably even better.

If someone dies it's just another pile of bones, unless it's the last girl from the village but except that it doesn't matter.

There really lacks a sense of cooperation and interaction to create a society that is part of a civilisation.

Currently being fast and not talking to anyone is rewarded over communication, organization and strategy.

The charachter you are playing in this current life has no history or anything that differentiate it from the other charachters in the game.

There is no smith, cook, tailor, farmer, engineer etc since everyone can just switch professions in the same life.

Would you trade a cart for pies?

No it's ridiculous since you can make the cart or pies yourself.

In real life everyone has different specializations because it's impossible to learn everything and be as skilled as everyone.

If you tried to be a smith+cook+tailor etc you would probably be mediocre at best in all these areas and would end up wasting ressources compared to someone that is specialized in one specific profession.

Twisted · 2019-09-13 10:56:51

Morti wrote:

All the while you have people like Twisted suiciding on players that wanted a chance to be good mothers, rather than accepting the hand he was dealt the very first life, as was Jason's intention for game.!

Excuse me, what? If you don't know how I play that's fine, who cares, but don't just make stuff up.

I never, EVER, suicide to get a 'better' life. Never have, never will. I always play the hand I'm dealt and that's why I enjoy this game.

You probably suicide more than I do.

Last edited by Twisted (2019-09-13 11:03:03)

DestinyCall · 2019-09-13 16:28:48

"Current player arc has been going 5 years"

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! MY TOWN!!!!!

*cries in the corner for a while*

Anhigen · 2019-09-13 16:52:25

DestinyCall wrote:

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! MY TOWN!!!!!

*wraps an emergency blanket around them* It'll be ok. We'll get you a new town. A better town. One with all your favorites--no more tears.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-13 17:36:43

Anhigen wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! MY TOWN!!!!!
*wraps an emergency blanket around them* It'll be ok. We'll get you a new town. A better town. One with all your favorites--no more tears.

Thanks .. it was a really nice town. I worked so hard on it last night. I was looking forward to making a really long road this morning .... sigh.

JonySky · 2019-09-13 20:12:44

Dodge wrote:

Anhigen wrote:
...
100% agree, currently it's a solo game where people play together.
You dont need anybody else to do anything and there is no incentive for meaningful interactions.
I can play an entire game without talking to anybody and i would do just fine probably even better.
If someone dies it's just another pile of bones, unless it's the last girl from the village but except that it doesn't matter.
There really lacks a sense of cooperation and interaction to create a society that is part of a civilisation.
Currently being fast and not talking to anyone is rewarded over communication, organization and strategy.
The charachter you are playing in this current life has no history or anything that differentiate it from the other charachters in the game.
There is no smith, cook, tailor, farmer, engineer etc since everyone can just switch professions in the same life.
Would you trade a cart for pies?
No it's ridiculous since you can make the cart or pies yourself.
In real life everyone has different specializations because it's impossible to learn everything and be as skilled as everyone.
If you tried to be a smith+cook+tailor etc you would probably be mediocre at best in all these areas and would end up wasting ressources compared to someone that is specialized in one specific profession.

No one has ever wondered if the OHOL engine allows this? perform joint tasks ??

If the engine does not support the ability to share the same vehicle, I do not think it allows to create something between 2 players ... and that is a very big problem for a game of survival and collaboration

when the war swords appeared I said that in this game you need to create more family union and fewer wars ... and I was not wrong

I think the problems with the griefers have run out of control.

Saolin · 2019-09-13 20:39:44

Anhigen wrote:

I'm sure, in the way that the mother/child mechanic and interaction creates a sense of family in this game, that group activities, efforts, and jobs will create a sense of comradery. Like, right now there isn't a meaningful way to interact with other players. You might say hi, or emote, and if you have a new player maybe you'll show them a task. But outside of teaching someone a skill, the only meaningful or impactful play we have with one another is a knife to the guts. The "community work" in OHOL is still designed around solo play with zero player interaction but as that changes and we gain the ability to work together and achieve cool things--not just by playing beside one another but with--we'll also see cool and interesting behavior changes in players.

Yes! This!

I personally like the rift, learning where things are and being able to use landmarks across lives. And there is a different feel to it than an infinite world. Everything feels a bit more significant and impactful. There is what there is and it's up to you to make the most of it.

The thing I don't like about the rift is how the dynamic rapidly shifts towards triggering a reset once there has been two families for a while and everything has been established. It ironically negates the resource scarcity of the rift, though I don't know I would enjoy playing through too much scarcity, I'm not sure it really even gets to that point. I realize the opinion I'm stating here leads to a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, but that's how I feel about it, lol. Once the stabbing escalates to a frenzy, I tend to log off for the night.

Anyway rift or not doesn't really matter to me I think. I mainly just wanted to add my support to the idea I quoted.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-09-12 16:19:40

The arc ended again.

#2 2019-09-12 16:29:41

Re: The arc ended again.

#3 2019-09-12 16:32:34

Re: The arc ended again.

#4 2019-09-12 18:01:25

Re: The arc ended again.

#5 2019-09-12 18:12:38

Re: The arc ended again.

#6 2019-09-12 18:39:07

Re: The arc ended again.

#7 2019-09-12 19:27:22

Re: The arc ended again.

#8 2019-09-12 20:58:39

Re: The arc ended again.

#9 2019-09-12 21:31:30

Re: The arc ended again.

#10 2019-09-12 21:38:09

Re: The arc ended again.

#11 2019-09-12 21:55:43

Re: The arc ended again.

#12 2019-09-12 23:47:27

Re: The arc ended again.

#13 2019-09-12 23:59:49

Re: The arc ended again.

#14 2019-09-13 01:23:58

Re: The arc ended again.

#15 2019-09-13 01:49:33

Re: The arc ended again.

#16 2019-09-13 03:10:04

Re: The arc ended again.

#17 2019-09-13 04:49:51

Re: The arc ended again.

#18 2019-09-13 08:06:32

Re: The arc ended again.

#19 2019-09-13 09:19:57

Re: The arc ended again.

#20 2019-09-13 10:56:51

Re: The arc ended again.

#21 2019-09-13 16:28:48

Re: The arc ended again.

#22 2019-09-13 16:52:25

Re: The arc ended again.

#23 2019-09-13 17:36:43

Re: The arc ended again.

#24 2019-09-13 20:12:44

Re: The arc ended again.

#25 2019-09-13 20:39:44

Re: The arc ended again.

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