Tarr

Morti · 2019-07-18 05:24:21

And whats the murder rate in the multiplayer versions of Stardew Valley, Don't Starve or the Sims?
How many people find those games more "interesting"?

I mean, let's just have a look here on Twitch, view counts are kind of a measure of how "interesting" people find games...

Oh, I guess that's not really fair, is it? I mean, not many people use the multiplayer mod for Sims 4 anyway.

I mean, I suppose murder is interesting to someone...

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Can't we just focus more on the trust that the farmers, smiths, and clothiers are going to do their jobs?
I'm pretty sure that is REAL trust too. I don't know if it's toothless trust or not... why does trust need teeth??
I mean, if I trust someone to keep the berries alive and they don't, I'm pretty sure that is my trust biting me in the ass, but, I'm not sure if that is what you mean? If you expect us to bond like soldiers, when our victims and murderers are our moms and kids from one hour to the next, I, don't think you've really thought this through.

Morti · 2019-07-18 05:53:10

Personally I think it was enough when we were balancing between taking care of our children, and taking care of the town.
That was more than enough for me to play for 2,000 hours before grabbing my torch and pitchfork and really joining in with the mob. But I still stand behind the opinion that it's more our fault for making the swords, in our towns, than it is your fault that we are using them.

I'm willing to guess your account is not one of the top 20 people making swords, nor are you in the top 20 (by you I mean Jason) list for kills made with them. Tarr, you may be top 5 for both of those categories. But I think that'll change with all the people joining solely based on learning that there are tools solely meant to satiate their murder simulator desires.

Tarr · 2019-07-18 06:18:57

Morti wrote:

Personally I think it was enough when we were balancing between taking care of our children, and taking care of the town.
That was more than enough for me to play for 2,000 hours before grabbing my torch and pitchfork and really joining in with the mob. But I still stand behind the opinion that it's more our fault for making the swords, in our towns, than it is your fault that we are using them.
I'm willing to guess your account is not one of the top 20 people making swords, nor are you in the top 20 (by you I mean Jason) list for kills made with them. Tarr, you may be top 5 for both of those categories. But I think that'll change with all the people joining solely based on learning that there are tools solely meant to satiate their murder simulator desires.

Funny enough, when trying to prove the point to Jason about the swords originally I made it a point to either find my swords in the wilderness or disarm someone (as I was raiding as a feral Eve that could very clearly display who was doing all the killing.) I don't make swords, nor have I ever mass produced the dumb things because they have zero value besides making a backpack last forever.

Neither from a minmaxers perspective or a normal players perspective does it make sense to make the things as steel is better used on making additional adzes (and my god do I hate seeing a bunch of adzes in a camp/city.) As long as swords are incredibly easy to make and cannot be undone someone is always going to mass produce the dumb things and no one can stop them without resorting to violence.

I'm hoping enough dust gets kicked up that things can be solved without effectively making he game unplayable for others as the whole sword thing was burnt me out on this game for nearly a month and a half. Hell, if I didn't return to playing people wouldn't know half the stupid stuff about the current pvp system.

arkajalka · 2019-07-18 07:13:30

The thing is theres really not much you can do to prevent mass genocide from happening. No matter how "good" you are. Having 10% murder rate is horrendeous... I mean lets say average village size is 10 to 20 people of different ages. So you are bound to have a murder or two in your life. Usually these murders happen in clusters and you get bunch of them when this drama starts to occur. So you'll probably live few peacefull lives and then withness a mass genocide and all you can do is run away with your high yum count.

I myself run the vanilla client only. Seems like most players tend to mod. So for me theres really 0% chance to fight back in anyway.

People create these weapons in fear of them(aka for selfdeffence only), but with the current system almost never have swords are used for selfdefence instead you are actually providing the next school shooter with his ak47. Well i guess its better that these Elliots release their anger here, but i would love to have some more ways to disencourage people from the path of war than just going full elliot yourself. Maybe we could have a way to dissarm people. Would love if you could imprison with shackels or stock, but it would just provide griefers a new fun tool.

Making sword much harder to make would make creating of it a consious decicion of a skilled player of a tool of mass destruction. Now its made from most important tech early stage parts with a hammer. So you have these first time players creating em just to test em out. Theres no really skillcap in forging a fine sword which was actually a token of smiths skillsets in real world.

Spiegel · 2019-07-18 07:18:18

Maaaaaaaaaan, I'm super late to the party and missed half the text everyone else has typed, mainly because a lot look like near-ueseless lists ranting about other games that I ain't got time for, but on the topic of murder simulators. . .

I play a fair bit of GTAV. Everyone you pass in that game is almost guaranteed to shoot you, or blow you up, or generally behave annoyingly like wreck your car for no good reason and all that. But my favorite moments in that game are those moments where you can pass by somebody else, and everything is peaceful. Where you can just trust that random person, even if for only a few moments. It's just exciting, knowing you can die at any moment, but you just like, don't. Like that unexpected variable that is peace in that game. In comparison, I'd say that OHOL is the opposite for some people. I personally don't mind those lives where I feel I have to run away from a developed town with a child in hand because someone went on a killing spree. Like it was mentioned by someone (probably Jason) earlier, something like that tends to happen one out of every twelve lives, unless you're unlucky and it happens so frequently. It's like a variable that, yeah, detracts from that particular life, but there are always so many others where you're going to spend your entire time snaring rabbits, and that's it.

I guess if I had to relate it to anything, it's like sex without a condom! All the fun! All the risk that generates even more excitement! But indeed, it's can be a serious risk if it's with randoms. And it can get boring if it's the same thing every single time.

arkajalka · 2019-07-18 07:32:41

Its like sex without condom with a piece of board that has std's, no abortion, no cure for diseases. All you get is a fast poke in , minimal ammount of cum and splinters to your genitals. Also other people use performace enhancer like viagra and all you have is a micro penis that cant stand up by itself and all you can do is run away and cry.

arkajalka · 2019-07-18 07:54:53

If the recipe for sword would reguire several pieces of iron and would be harder to make it would push this mass genocide phase further down in the civs arc. Also requiring more ingots would make others to question the need for it in relation to it usefulness. I mean it used to be a serious effort of persuation to make smith do blades for kraut board (kraut being the most cost effective single source food ingame). Or you had to make it swift and in secresy.

Lets say:
5 overlapped blank blade bases for the blade part.
Hardening
Hammering to shape
Sharpening
Polishing
1ingot for hilt
1rabbit fur piece for the handle
1ingot for knob that secures that all together.

This would atleast push the genocide phase further down and swords would be marvelous creations of a true smith. They are only overpowered cause its so easy to make em.

Dantox · 2019-07-18 11:01:34

arkajalka wrote:

If the recipe for sword would reguire several pieces of iron and would be harder to make it would push this mass genocide phase further down in the civs arc. Also requiring more ingots would make others to question the need for it in relation to it usefulness. I mean it used to be a serious effort of persuation to make smith do blades for kraut board (kraut being the most cost effective single source food ingame). Or you had to make it swift and in secresy.
Lets say:
5 overlapped blank blade bases for the blade part.
Hardening
Hammering to shape
Sharpening
Polishing
1ingot for hilt
1rabbit fur piece for the handle
1ingot for knob that secures that all together.
This would atleast push the genocide phase further down and swords would be marvelous creations of a true smith. They are only overpowered cause its so easy to make em.

1 steel rod for blade
Rabbit fur for handle
1 Rope
1 iron ingot

that would seem like a cleaner recipe in my opinion but yours sure would make it harder to make

schmloo · 2019-07-18 12:26:06

arkajalka wrote:

If the recipe for sword would reguire several pieces of iron and would be harder to make it would push this mass genocide phase further down in the civs arc. Also requiring more ingots would make others to question the need for it in relation to it usefulness. I mean it used to be a serious effort of persuation to make smith do blades for kraut board (kraut being the most cost effective single source food ingame). Or you had to make it swift and in secresy.
Lets say:
5 overlapped blank blade bases for the blade part.
Hardening
Hammering to shape
Sharpening
Polishing
1ingot for hilt
1rabbit fur piece for the handle
1ingot for knob that secures that all together.
This would atleast push the genocide phase further down and swords would be marvelous creations of a true smith. They are only overpowered cause its so easy to make em.

The problem is, people who just want to “satiate their murderous desires” don’t care how many resources they use. All this would do is run towns dry of iron because people want to only go on killing sprees for the sake of petty thrills and a misguided feeling of skilfulness, and knowing that they have power to change an entire town’s fate alone.

arkajalka · 2019-07-18 12:55:41

schmloo wrote:

arkajalka wrote:
If the recipe for sword would reguire several pieces of iron and would be harder to make it would push this mass genocide phase further down in the civs arc. Also requiring more ingots would make others to question the need for it in relation to it usefulness. I mean it used to be a serious effort of persuation to make smith do blades for kraut board (kraut being the most cost effective single source food ingame). Or you had to make it swift and in secresy.
Lets say:
5 overlapped blank blade bases for the blade part.
Hardening
Hammering to shape
Sharpening
Polishing
1ingot for hilt
1rabbit fur piece for the handle
1ingot for knob that secures that all together.
This would atleast push the genocide phase further down and swords would be marvelous creations of a true smith. They are only overpowered cause its so easy to make em.
The problem is, people who just want to “satiate their murderous desires” don’t care how many resources they use. All this would do is run towns dry of iron because people want to only go on killing sprees for the sake of petty thrills and a misguided feeling of skilfulness, and knowing that they have power to change an entire town’s fate alone.

Then maybe you add some useful machine to the recipe line of the sword. Maybe you would need oil in quenching/hardening of the sword. They do use oil in making of swords. Actually it's necessary to make a viable sword. If you dont do this proses you kinda get one time use swords that bend on hit. Quenching with water makes it snap. So oil is really the only viable option to make a durable and flexible piece.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenching

In materials science, quenching is the rapid cooling of a workpiece in water, oil or air to obtain certain material properties.

This way they would atleast benefit the community in someway if they are rushing the swords or the swords would be made after the town has acces to oil.

Last edited by arkajalka (2019-07-18 13:32:05)

Averest · 2019-07-18 13:01:27

Just a quick question, but how many of those hunger deaths could possibly be due to starving before the death timer finally makes you kick it since you can't eat when you're wounded?

Tarr · 2019-07-18 15:00:43

Averest wrote:

Just a quick question, but how many of those hunger deaths could possibly be due to starving before the death timer finally makes you kick it since you can't eat when you're wounded?

I can't imagine it being a significant number but I would imagine at least 10 deaths a day would fall under the wounded but starved category though there's no real way to know because how things are shown in logs.

schmloo · 2019-07-18 15:58:11

arkajalka wrote:

Then maybe you add some useful machine to the recipe line of the sword. Maybe you would need oil in quenching/hardening of the sword. They do use oil in making of swords. Actually it's necessary to make a viable sword. If you dont do this proses you kinda get one time use swords that bend on hit. Quenching with water makes it snap. So oil is really the only viable option to make a durable and flexible piece.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenching
In materials science, quenching is the rapid cooling of a workpiece in water, oil or air to obtain certain material properties.
This way they would atleast benefit the community in someway if they are rushing the swords or the swords would be made after the town has acces to oil.

Ooooh yeah quenching with crude oil sounds awesome. Rapid cooling of a metal prevents grain transformation during the cooling process, making it harder but more brittle. I think oil is used because water cools it too rapidly (faster cooling gives less time for atoms to move - metallic glass very rapidly-cooled metal), please correct me if I’m wrong. Maybe an anvil and trough (all-in-one to reduce clutter), for both quenching and shaping tools? Hot sword parts shaped on anvil without oil, then take off and use on anvil with oil again to quench it? I don’t know, just shitting out ideas sorry.

Carbon steel was used for medieval swords as it was stronger in shear and tensile strength (and because swordsmiths didn’t have the technology for precisely measuring carbon). Swords however were heavy and cumbersome, so holding a sword could possibly hinder movement speed. Maybe an extra step in sword-smithing requires a crucible of steel+carbon for high carbon steel? Then with that, You can make blades, hilt, and pommel. Furthermore, the creation of high carbon steal wouldn’t be a dead end as it could lead to advanced construction (concrete, etc.).

Maybe without a leather rabbit fur handle it can be dropped like the previous killing system? Maybe blocking is implemented to decay both swords until they break? This would give a chance for people to defend against first growl and give swords a nerf for gameplay and balance reasons, while also giving the dynamic of an actual fight or duel. Shift left-click to block, shift right-click to kill.

Last edited by schmloo (2019-07-18 16:09:15)

RedComb · 2019-07-18 16:17:52

Jason's attitudes that a 10% murder rate is just about right is why I don't play the game anymore and haven't for over a month or two.

He doesn't consider that some of the death by starvation/animal comes after a person witnesses a murder spree and suicides in frustration.

If I watch my village killed, and the people I grew to trust savagely decimated, I don't want to keep living there and just starve or go stand on a snake.

And right there is proof that 10% is a lot more murder than Jason believes...

In English, the word decimation is used to express a horrible loss of a fraction of something. It is derived from Latin, decimatus, which was executing every tenth man chosen by lots as punishment.

A 10% loss of something is considered so traumatic there is a word used to describe it. Just let that sink in, Jason.

A 10% homicide rate is NOT normal or just about right. It's terribly high and makes the game unplayable.

Our language reflects that loss by one tenth is horrific, so why won't you accept that 10% is way too high?

decimation
1. to destroy a great number or proportion of:
2. to select by lot and kill every tenth person of.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/decimation

Last edited by RedComb (2019-07-18 16:33:11)

arkajalka · 2019-07-18 16:59:36

schmloo wrote:

arkajalka wrote:
Then maybe you add some useful machine to the recipe line of the sword. Maybe you would need oil in quenching/hardening of the sword. They do use oil in making of swords. Actually it's necessary to make a viable sword. If you dont do this proses you kinda get one time use swords that bend on hit. Quenching with water makes it snap. So oil is really the only viable option to make a durable and flexible piece.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenching
In materials science, quenching is the rapid cooling of a workpiece in water, oil or air to obtain certain material properties.
This way they would atleast benefit the community in someway if they are rushing the swords or the swords would be made after the town has acces to oil.
Ooooh yeah quenching with crude oil sounds awesome. Rapid cooling of a metal prevents grain transformation during the cooling process, making it harder but more brittle. I think oil is used because water cools it too rapidly (faster cooling gives less time for atoms to move - metallic glass very rapidly-cooled metal), please correct me if I’m wrong. Maybe an anvil and trough (all-in-one to reduce clutter), for both quenching and shaping tools? Hot sword parts shaped on anvil without oil, then take off and use on anvil with oil again to quench it? I don’t know, just shitting out ideas sorry.
Carbon steel was used for medieval swords as it was stronger in shear and tensile strength (and because swordsmiths didn’t have the technology for precisely measuring carbon). Swords however were heavy and cumbersome, so holding a sword could possibly hinder movement speed. Maybe an extra step in sword-smithing requires a crucible of steel+carbon for high carbon steel? Then with that, You can make blades, hilt, and pommel. Furthermore, the creation of high carbon steal wouldn’t be a dead end as it could lead to advanced construction (concrete, etc.).
Maybe without a leather rabbit fur handle it can be dropped like the previous killing system? Maybe blocking is implemented to decay both swords until they break? This would give a chance for people to defend against first growl and give swords a nerf for gameplay and balance reasons, while also giving the dynamic of an actual fight or duel. Shift left-click to block, shift right-click to kill.

Just watched some tube vids about sword quenching and hardening. Think you are supposed to dip "normalized" (heated repeatedly to even out the balance of iron and the coal in the steel mixture) bladepiece in to a bucket of oil which locks the coal in its place. In water/air cooling water makes it too hard and air cooling too bendy, oil is just perfect for making bendy durable choppers that can keep their edge sharp.

Heres some links if you are interested:

Heat Treatment -The Science of Forging (feat. Alec Steele)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jQ4y0LK1kY

What quenching and tempering does to SWORDS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ_WseTWJJE

Rebar knives...can you heat-treat in oil or water?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcl3LFzBU7o

Last edited by arkajalka (2019-07-18 17:02:17)

Saolin · 2019-07-18 17:19:31

RedComb wrote:

Jason's attitudes that a 10% murder rate is just about right is why I don't play the game anymore and haven't for over a month or two.
He doesn't consider that some of the death by starvation/animal comes after a person witnesses a murder spree and suicides in frustration.
If I watch my village killed, the people I grew to trust savagely decimated, I don't want to keep going on there and just starve or go stand on a snake.
And right there is proof that 10% is a lot more murder than Jason believes...
In English, the word decimation is used to express a horrible loss of a fraction of something. It is derived from Latin, decimatus, which was executing every tenth man chosen by lots as punishment.
A 10% loss of something is considered so traumatic there is a word used to describe it. Just let that sink in, Jason.
A 10% homicide rate is NOT normal or just about right. It's terribly high and makes the game unplayable.
Our language reflects this loss by one tenth is horrific, so why won't you accept that 10% is way too high?
decimation
1. to destroy a great number or proportion of:
2. to select by lot and kill every tenth person of.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/decimation

So the game is in a constant state of 'decimation' then.

There's also bear griefing. Played a life on Tuesday where someone kept luring bears to town, lots of people died to bear wounds. Midway through the life a pair of villagers stole the bow and a cart of supplies. I chased after them with my knife, but I stopped at the edge of town realizing that I was basically running into an arrow if I kept following them. I saw two babies (one mine) at the fire talking about killing everyone, I debated killing them, but didn't want to start a chain reaction. Two more bows were made to fend off the intermittent bear attacks. Some villager returned during a bear attack and starting freaking out about where the bows had gone, not knowing there were bears in town. My mom distracted a bear so I could run away and she got bit, which was really sad since I knew what to do to avoid it.

Overall it was an interesting and memorable life but the level of paranoia and distrust among players is really high. You spend your life working next to a bunch of people not knowing if you can trust them or not. Is your nephew Zeke gonna be a homicidal maniac a few years down the line, or is he just a little quirky? Unfortunately your options aren't good if you want peace and only to kill if it's needed to defend the peace. You don't have a chance to question people's intentions a lot of the time, you either have to kill them preemptively or let them run off and be free to do the damage you suspect they might. There's been countless times where I didn't kill someone, feeling like I needed a little more information first, only to see them later killing off the sheep and running off with a cart full of iron (for example). But if you kill them preemptively then you're probably gonna get killed in retaliation by someone and quite likely start a chain of murders as people continually wander into the scene and see a family member has just died and decide they should get revenge.

I guess what I'm saying is it feels like it's advantage griefer, you don't have a great way to deal with them short of carrying around a bow, which is also a good way to get yourself killed since you will be seen as a threat and also not working. It's a barrier to connecting with other players. Time and communication is limited so we don't just stand around chatting with each other to build trust like in real life. And the result is everyone ends up paranoid and on edge.

In the life I shared at the start of this post no one was murdered by another person that I can recall, but the feeling of chaos and helplessness was similar.

Last edited by Saolin (2019-07-18 17:32:39)

Ilka · 2019-07-18 21:10:38

Yeah, 10% is nothing.

https://topforeignstocks.com/2016/04/19 … opulation/

In the Second World War, only three countries lost more than 10% of the population, but this is nothing ... The number is almost imperceptible.

Jason, especially for you - life wisdom.

If one person tells you that you are drunk, ignore it.

If two people tell you that you are drunk - do not pay attention to it - maybe they are in collusion.

If 10 people tell you that you are drunk - come home and go to sleep.

Tarr · 2019-07-18 21:53:50

Ilka wrote:

Yeah, 10% is nothing.
https://topforeignstocks.com/2016/04/19 … opulation/
In the Second World War, only three countries lost more than 10% of the population, but this is nothing ... The number is almost imperceptible.

Jason, especially for you - life wisdom.
If one person tells you that you are drunk, ignore it.
If two people tell you that you are drunk - do not pay attention to it - maybe they are in collusion.
If 10 people tell you that you are drunk - come home and go to sleep.

I mean the murder rate after the arrow-note bug was made public was around 5% (though this number should be higher since some of the hunger deaths were baby runners not using awbz instant die mechanic.

Deaths as of 8/26/2018 (day after arrow-note bug is made public)

Total deaths: 6523
Disconnect deaths: (SIDS for babies/Eves/Whoever) 1196
Hunger: 4863
Old age: 194
Murder: 270 (Yikes this was double the previous day at 112 vs 270)

Removing the disconnect deaths we end up with 5327 total deaths.

This gives us a murder rate around 5.1% which should probably be higher tbh but without looking much more in-depth to see how many runner babies they had.

Now lets think about this, with a mechanic basically allowing you to instant gib people from a range we're seeing a lower murder rate than we are in the current game. HMMMMMM.

Morti · 2019-07-19 01:17:32

arkajalka wrote:

Imo its totally different thing to kill people out of their ignorance. Getting at way of things when you are actually providing more than all the rest of the village people together for the community and someone tryes to hinger your level of produce. Theres a lesson to be learned and people learn best (or atleast remember bit better) when it hurts. You simply dont go f around with you berry bucket moving things around when someone is in middle of making something complex that will serve many generations.
Killing just for the sake of killing is totally different. It serves no goal. There's no lesson to be learned...

I am not saying they are the same thing, but ignoring people's desires to learn the game through experimentation, to kill them, for displaying that desire, certainly may be one of the factors that leads to players simply killing for the sake of killing, in later lives.

When the last lesson of a life, is, I killed you, now you can't be here.
What are people really walking away from that life with?
What lessons will might they pass on, down the road?

The lesson that people like Tarr, and pein, are complaining about, being killed by people who, for all we know, they killed for petty reasons, in previous lives.

Do they both help the community in other ways? Of course.
Have they hurt the community in worse ways than they've helped?
Arguable.
Wells, don't play the game.
Engines, don't play the game.
Sheep pens, don't play the game.

Swords, are not playing the game.
We are.

There is nothing, more valuable to a community, than it's people.
You cannot even compare, the value of a player, to the value of a diesel engine.
To try and argue that it is worth killing someone, that's it's worth harming a player, over making parts for a pump, is ridiculous.

And I am not denying that there are some people coming into this game with the intent of getting laughs, sabotaging what other people are trying to accomplish. I know how fun it can be, I've done a lot of things like that in the past. A lot of things, I can't even say I regret. But I know, in this game, I have seen a lot of people murdered, for a lot of petty reasons. People who were displaying genuine signs that they were new players, just trying to learn how things worked. People standing near the smithy, picking up items and holding them, probably tabbing through the game's menu, trying to learn that way. People hammering the last iron, all the way to mining pick, when a file, or saw, was the tool needed most.

We need to be willing to sacrifice our own life sometimes, we need to be willing to sacrifice, towns, for the future of the players themselves. It's something that is easy to overlook, when you are caught up in the moment. The game has a way of making you feel, like THIS town, THIS life, is going to be the best, almost EVERY time.

If only, you could just get sheep.
If only, you could just get the saw and the bucket, for that stanchion.
If only, you could just get enough iron to make that engine.

If only, you, could have that backpack.

It's ridiculous, what we've killed each other over.

To the point where we kill, just to be the last one alive.
That's not the game Jason has given any indication, that he was out to make.
It's certainly not the game the world is missing out on.

arkajalka · 2019-07-19 08:05:34

Morti wrote:

arkajalka wrote:
Imo its totally different thing to kill people out of their ignorance. Getting at way of things when you are actually providing more than all the rest of the village people together for the community and someone tryes to hinger your level of produce. Theres a lesson to be learned and people learn best (or atleast remember bit better) when it hurts. You simply dont go f around with you berry bucket moving things around when someone is in middle of making something complex that will serve many generations.
Killing just for the sake of killing is totally different. It serves no goal. There's no lesson to be learned...
I am not saying they are the same thing, but ignoring people's desires to learn the game through experimentation, to kill them, for displaying that desire, certainly may be one of the factors that leads to players simply killing for the sake of killing, in later lives.
When the last lesson of a life, is, I killed you, now you can't be here.
What are people really walking away from that life with?
What lessons will might they pass on, down the road?
The lesson that people like Tarr, and pein, are complaining about, being killed by people who, for all we know, they killed for petty reasons, in previous lives.
Do they both help the community in other ways? Of course.
Have they hurt the community in worse ways than they've helped?
Arguable.
Wells, don't play the game.
Engines, don't play the game.
Sheep pens, don't play the game.
Swords, are not playing the game.
We are.
There is nothing, more valuable to a community, than it's people.
You cannot even compare, the value of a player, to the value of a diesel engine.
To try and argue that it is worth killing someone, that's it's worth harming a player, over making parts for a pump, is ridiculous.
And I am not denying that there are some people coming into this game with the intent of getting laughs, sabotaging what other people are trying to accomplish. I know how fun it can be, I've done a lot of things like that in the past. A lot of things, I can't even say I regret. But I know, in this game, I have seen a lot of people murdered, for a lot of petty reasons. People who were displaying genuine signs that they were new players, just trying to learn how things worked. People standing near the smithy, picking up items and holding them, probably tabbing through the game's menu, trying to learn that way. People hammering the last iron, all the way to mining pick, when a file, or saw, was the tool needed most.
We need to be willing to sacrifice our own life sometimes, we need to be willing to sacrifice, towns, for the future of the players themselves. It's something that is easy to overlook, when you are caught up in the moment. The game has a way of making you feel, like THIS town, THIS life, is going to be the best, almost EVERY time.
If only, you could just get sheep.
If only, you could just get the saw and the bucket, for that stanchion.
If only, you could just get enough iron to make that engine.
If only, you, could have that backpack.
It's ridiculous, what we've killed each other over.
To the point where we kill, just to be the last one alive.
That's not the game Jason has given any indication, that he was out to make.
It's certainly not the game the world is missing out on.

I myself tend to teach people whenever they ask anything. If a player tells his new ill show him the ways of surviveing aka the farm cycle. I also usually state that i can teach you anything you just have to ask. Im totaly by your side on the teaching aspect but there's a lot more into it than just curiosity and kindhearthed will to learn.

Usually how these things play out is that you are in the middle of some complext recipe and you tell them several times to get out of way (and you'll teach em when the time is proper). Also i think you add more variables than just curiousity in this kinda stabbing. Hardcore wasting resourses using everything you get you hands onto in to anything. Even after you are told that its inproper use of the tool/etc and teached how to do it proper. Still you disregard the wise words of the elder and continue your hard consuming ways. You cant teach someone whos ignorant. Only thing they prolly want to learn is how to smith some more swords. "im here to learn" XD

The thing with these killing sprees and mass genocides is that im not worried about myself dying. Usually i dont as im high yam, fast from my feet and observant of my surroundings. What happens is everyone else dies by yourside and you leave to rot in middle of this massacre. Its freaking depressing to witness murder after murder and live through it.

Last edited by arkajalka (2019-07-19 08:06:06)

Amon · 2019-07-19 10:20:10

I briefly return from the depths of writing.

Once the state of the game is concluded simply by looking at numbers and use them to dismiss player's crucial anecdotical evidence, we're getting to wargaming's sense of idea what the players really want.
A 8% 10% 5% precent of murder rate is just a number without context. If the players say it's too high and unenjoyable and ruining the experience of building a civilisation/family, then n% is too high of a murder rate, no matter if it is 1%, 6%, 50%.
We have to keep in mind, numbers look vastly different if you're looking at them from an isolated sheet compared to what actually transpires in game.

Even if we look at those raw numbers just so, maybe they seem small on paper, but in game it's enough to wipe out a megacity after megacity after megacity, to the last individual ever born there.

Last edited by Amon (2019-07-19 10:20:39)

Ilka · 2019-07-19 11:46:33

Morti wrote:

That's not the game Jason has given any indication, that he was out to make.
It's certainly not the game the world is missing out on.

Morti, this game has never been about fluffy pink unicorns. A game about parenthood in which you should abandon your children to starve to death?
I remember that after the first day of play I had nightmares at night.
My subconscious mind this game was not liked.

Tarr wrote:

I mean the murder rate after the arrow-note bug was made public was around 5% (though this number should be higher since some of the hunger deaths were baby runners not using awbz instant die mechanic.
Deaths as of 8/26/2018 (day after arrow-note bug is made public)
Total deaths: 6523
Disconnect deaths: (SIDS for babies/Eves/Whoever) 1196
Hunger: 4863
Old age: 194
Murder: 270 (Yikes this was double the previous day at 112 vs 270)
Removing the disconnect deaths we end up with 5327 total deaths.
This gives us a murder rate around 5.1% which should probably be higher tbh but without looking much more in-depth to see how many runner babies they had.
Now lets think about this, with a mechanic basically allowing you to instant gib people from a range we're seeing a lower murder rate than we are in the current game. HMMMMMM.

Tarr that the number of homicide is has risen to a level that exceeds certain limits for many people, it can be seen even without calculations.

Actually, I have the impression that they only play:

1. Griefers-murderers killing whole villages without reason,

2. Ordinary griefers - inventing idiotic dramas and stabbing people with knives for no reason,

3. Striemerers- trolls running around and insulting everyone,

4. New players who often do not even know how to eat,

5. Beginner players who learn to kill the most quickly,

6. Normal helpful players who meet less and less.

After today's two games full of violence and nonsense killing

I also have enough. Of the game I was liked, there was almost nothing left.

And Jason is a stubborn donkey and even if truth kicks his ass, he will not notice her.

Tarr · 2019-07-19 14:46:06

Ilka wrote:

Tarr that the number of homicide is has risen to a level that exceeds certain limits for many people, it can be seen even without calculations.
Actually, I have the impression that they only play:
1. Griefers-murderers killing whole villages without reason,
2. Ordinary griefers - inventing idiotic dramas and stabbing people with knives for no reason,
3. Striemerers- trolls running around and insulting everyone,
4. New players who often do not even know how to eat,
5. Beginner players who learn to kill the most quickly,
6. Normal helpful players who meet less and less.
After today's two games full of violence and nonsense killing
I also have enough. Of the game I was liked, there was almost nothing left.
And Jason is a stubborn donkey and even if truth kicks his ass, he will not notice her.

Trust me, that math isn't supposed to dismiss anyone else's feelings about swords but point out that we have a higher murder rate than when it was even easier to kill in the first place. All we can do is point out the problems with the game, suggest how to fix them, and hope Jason eventually comes around to the idea that war swords are not a healthy thing for the game.

Other than that the only other option is to quit but even that likely wouldn't get the idea across. 8-10% murder rate is much much too high. Jason makes it sound like you're only going to see a murder every 10-11 lives but with 10-20 people living in a village you're likely to see one to two murders in a single lifetime.

12.5+ people are killed per hour in game, obviously some hours are more peaceful but raids clearly show that they can be just as violent as they are chill.

Ilka · 2019-07-19 16:26:17

No, no.

You misunderstood me.

I'm really happy that someone has precisely calculated it.

I knew right away that Jason's results are wrong, because he does not deduct SID children.

And some players are still rescued with pads.

So the number of murders is even higher.

Unfortunately, I have no faith in Jason's.

After all, exhausting oil pumps are just a way of encouraging war.

Jason has his vision - "the war is cool and interesting and if you do not want a war I will force you to it".

Funny.

ollj · 2019-07-19 20:04:30

your stat doesnt account for me typing /die just for seeing any situation, where within the family, people with knifes act vengeful/greedy or murderous. im just skipping those families for life.

this is wehere knifes cause sids.

Last edited by ollj (2019-07-19 20:06:02)

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