Amon's grief on man's best friend not being man's best friend

Amon · 2019-06-05 12:25:08

Mmmm, dogs. Well here comes a list of the issue on the matter of dogs

Considering dogs don't have any inherent value other than using up littering carnitas/pork (another issue hopefully will get adressed) I can say that their own use in the game currently stand as:
1) Time distraction
2) Griefer's tool in the form of pitbulls and semi-tames
3) A means to acquire more fur for the fur industry via semi-tames
4) Furniture

And for the last one, dogs don't even make up for good furniture. They don't last long enough to be really worth it. Many times...especially during the property fence update (issue that will come up next) I have experimented with 'perfecting' a family home, most notably by adding dogs. to it.

And here it comes.
Geese make up for better pets than semi-tames and dogs do. Geese live forever and can be disposed off at will and can be contained, three things don't don't have.

https://i.postimg.cc/ysmjw2nY/20190420150745-1.jpg
Picture provided shows how a geese is a much better pet, and if it escapes it can be returned to it's palce. (while searching for Noe, my son's pet goose, we actually ended up hoarding all the geese...by accident) The goose can also be contained to a location or let to roam freely. However one would not expect a goose to show loyalty to it's owner, like one might think from a dog.

Dog cannot be contained or led
Dogs, like other animals cannot be moved around in their adult form. Once a pet escaps, the pet is escaped... A dog once free will keep running in any direction where some player is, which often includes out into the wilderness where your dog will be lost forever. And once found, the dog cannot be returned.
https://i.postimg.cc/4J79T9Zb/20190420143728-1.jpg
With property fences, there was a means of containing a dog somehow, however dogs still escaped since containment measures are often space inefficient.

Dogs' lives are too short
While dogs live longer than they do in real life, those minutes of breeding time compared to death time are neigh useless to leave on the side. If you want to work on some other things you'll sooner realize that if you want to keep a dog line going, you better become a full-on dog breeder so you can keep an eye on timers and the dog doesen't turn too old too soon. Which is bad considering people in town would rather see you not fiddle with 'useless content'.
This is especially egregious when other animals are imortal to time passage. -> see geese, which are better pets.
https://i.postimg.cc/GddGstJd/20190420144117-1.jpg
By the time the dog escaped, and I went to fetch mutton to feed the dog to get new puppies, the dog was old.
The still nursing dog I left in the outskirts however...some other players already removed all the puppies, so I was unable to acquire a new family dog...

Dogs are only immortal and stay put in the puppy-nursing stage.
I've had many frustrations in the past with this. When one brings a dog to a town and breeds it so the dog stays put in a location and doesen't age, as a means of furniture/decoration. People still have the gal to remove the puppies even if told NOT to. The dog without puppies grows old and there is no carnitas to feed the puppies. The puppies thus die and you're left to square 0 with no joy left from dogs.
If you don't do the breeding-and-leaving, the dog grows old anyway and dies, not before running off into the wilderness, leaving you with no aesthetic value from the dog.

Dogs cannot be disposed of
This was the original issue with the dogs, which solution on did not improve the dogs. Dogs cannot be disposed of, some more active means of killing dogs could exist. Either via your own hands or those of another. Old age is fine, but it's just too quick, I would personally preffer a dog die of old age after the owner dies, but there are certianly better solutions to this.
A manual non-waitey means of killing dogs could also help the fur industry and help dispose of putbulls griefing towns.

Dogs do not love you
Dogs are not your best friend. One would expect a dog to have an owner. While it makes sense for first generations pups to meander around a village and live from scraps, one would expect humans to sooner or later propperly integrate the dog into the family. I like how dogs are grown from eating carnitas (a waste food a village usually wants to get rid of asap)
I'd rather see a dog follow a singular person and stay loyal to that one person than meander from person to person.

Besides furniture, dogs are useless
Honestly if dogs were semi-permanent in a singular life, I wouldn't mind their function being purely aesthetic. However different breeds were developed to fulfill different functions.
Shepherds herded sheep. Cattleherds herd cattle. Guard dogs guard, hunting dogs hunt.
At the current state of the game, dogs meander around and get lost. Shepherds have nothing to do with sheep.
Chihuahuas aren't biting enough children. Putbulls are only used to grief.

.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-05 15:02:12

Someone had to have mutton meat to make a dog, and carnitas are required to make an adult dog. A knife is need for both, which require a forge used more than one or multiple forges. Dogs are a sign of civilization... or theft of a civilization. So, in terms of civilization building, dogs do something with respect to a fundamental concept of the game.

But dogs themselves are not building. So, they are outside of the fundamental concepts. Perhaps mean pit bulls were an attempt to signal to the player that dogs were merely a sign of a civilization having gotten built, but were consistent with the civilization building concept. Then again, most dogs I think attractive in this game to enough players, so they could help with parenting by making a village more attractive.

Amon wrote:

Geese make up for better pets than semi-tames and dogs do.

Geese require a bow and arrow made a rope, and ONLY a clay bowl having gotten fired at a forge. No other tools are needed, so the level of technology needed is less for a goose than a dog. Geese thus come as a sign of civlization building, but not as much of a sign of civilization building as dogs. However, geese might signal more responsible parenting than dogs, since geese are a source of food while dogs are not.

futurebird · 2019-06-05 15:14:18

Spoonwood wrote:

Someone had to have mutton meat to make a dog, and carnitas are required to make an adult dog. A knife is need for both, which require a forge used more than one or multiple forges. Dogs are a sign of civilization... or theft of a civilization. So, in terms of civilization building, dogs do something with respect to a fundamental concept of the game.

Stop being such a wet blanket. We all know that the "most efficient" town would be something like one cow, a bunch of buckets in a house with a huge stockpile of corn. Everyone lives on milk and stays inside. Wall off the town with no door and have one sheep for occasional compost for the corn, carefully yum chain and never really do anything.

Now doing that once or twice might be fun but NO ONE. Not even you plays for perfect efficiency, because it would be boring like all of these repetitive responses you put on every damn thread about "blah blah blah fertilely" WE GET IT you don't think the game mechanics perfectly match the vision of the game.

But, my god... can you just ... IDK relax or something?

I'm getting exasperated by proxy from your whinging on about this all the damn time.

Amon · 2019-06-05 15:34:26

Spoonwood wrote:

Someone had to have mutton meat to make a dog, and carnitas are required to make an adult dog. A knife is need for both, which require a forge used more than one or multiple forges. Dogs are a sign of civilization... or theft of a civilization. So, in terms of civilization building, dogs do something with respect to a fundamental concept of the game.
But dogs themselves are not building. So, they are outside of the fundamental concepts. Perhaps mean pit bulls were an attempt to signal to the player that dogs were merely a sign of a civilization having gotten built, but were consistent with the civilization building concept. Then again, most dogs I think attractive in this game to enough players, so they could help with parenting by making a village more attractive.
Amon wrote:
Geese make up for better pets than semi-tames and dogs do.
Geese require a bow and arrow made a rope, and ONLY a clay bowl having gotten fired at a forge. No other tools are needed, so the level of technology needed is less for a goose than a dog. Geese thus come as a sign of civlization building, but not as much of a sign of civilization building as dogs. However, geese might signal more responsible parenting than dogs, since geese are a source of food while dogs are not.

Yes, that are the precursors. Funnily enough dogs would have been likely the first animal to tame along with sheep, but due the knife requirement,you still need higher tech advancement to get the meat. Total practical uselessness they bring to humanity about null.

If dogs were to become useful, perhaps the requirement of a knife to acquire them should be reevaluated.

WalrusesConquer · 2019-06-05 15:50:47

My issue with dogs:
I bring them into a town, when they are old, but they wander reeeeally far. It's hard to find them if you don't keep an eye on them 24/7.
Being able to use a rope on them, like a sheep, or tie them up to a fence.
They wander too far, and you have no way to keep them still.

The death I don't mind as much. When Bagel the town's collie dies, and everyone gathers, its a moment I guess..

Spoonwood · 2019-06-05 18:51:42

futurebird wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Someone had to have mutton meat to make a dog, and carnitas are required to make an adult dog. A knife is need for both, which require a forge used more than one or multiple forges. Dogs are a sign of civilization... or theft of a civilization. So, in terms of civilization building, dogs do something with respect to a fundamental concept of the game.
Stop being such a wet blanket. We all know that the "most efficient" town would be something like one cow, a bunch of buckets in a house with a huge stockpile of corn. Everyone lives on milk and stays inside. Wall off the town with no door and have one sheep for occasional compost for the corn, carefully yum chain and never really do anything.

Your claim is not correct. A well-organized town with multiple foods for yum, inlcuding milks, would be the most efficient town. So, I don't know any such thing, because it's just not true. A yum chain of two milks isn't very good at all.

futurebird wrote:

Now doing that once or twice might be fun but NO ONE. Not even you plays for perfect efficiency, because it would be boring like all of these repetitive responses you put on every damn thread about "blah blah blah fertilely" WE GET IT you don't think the game mechanics perfectly match the vision of the game.

No, I do NOT play for perfect efficiency, because of the time constraints. There's too much information for me to process with regard to efficiency that fast. Too many things that can change or do change. It would NOT bore me to try to play that way, because it would be difficult to figure out and then difficult for me to execute. I do NOT play for perfect efficency, because 'the best is the enemy of the good'. Or to make a mathematical analogy, I would search for a global optimum which takes too much time to figure out, and the local optimium ends up better, because of that time factor, and also because I am human and will make errors in evaluating efficiency.

Additionally, I like to experiment with different features in the game or make things because of my own taste. That doesn't mean that an efficient play style would bore me, just that I believe that satisfying my own tastes will be more satisfying to me than not doing so.

Furthermore, I'm going to speak as I see fit Futurebird, and in no way have my comments here been out of bounds merely by stating my perspective on certain aspects of dogs.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-06-05 19:01:24)

futurebird · 2019-06-05 19:03:00

You called dogs "theft of civilization" -- it's just so extreme. I don't really like dogs in the game. Too many bad experiences. The initial points in the post are good. But some people like them. And I just get kind of tired of everything coming back to iron/efficiency/fertility.

Are cameras "theft of civilization too?" What about paper? gotta use that knife for the charcoal. (but knives don't even wear out and can be recycled, kindling can be grown. a good forge has multiple tongs it's not like you can't get a lot done on one kindling. (and you can make kindling without iron)) So, your entire point is just tedious.

IDK. I guess my initial response was kind of grouchy but you aren't even right about the materials.

Amon · 2019-06-05 21:39:45

The comment by spooonwood was pretty levelheaded. I suppose everyone has just grown too tired of his antics lol, but it's not good to get carried away by one's own feelings in turn.
Perhaps the wording is what ticked it off in the end.
I guess it's a more efficient way to say "dogs require so much, yet they provide naught in turn," which is true. They only bring temporary enjoyment and a distraction, but nothing truly lasting.
Dogs aren't good, but they don't have to stay that way.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-05 22:43:52

futurebird wrote:

You called dogs "theft of civilization" -- it's just so extreme.

Sorry, I wasn't clear there. Note the comment is unedited. I said:

Spoonwood wrote:

Dogs are a sign of civilization... or theft of a civilization.

In other words, dogs are a sign of theft of a civilization or a sign of civilization (how nice... using simple logic clarified meaning!). I suppose dogs could be stolen from a civilization. The making of dogs isn't a theft. The theft would be in a stolen knife used to slice a sheep or wild mouflon to make a dog. Or theft of mouflon meat. Or pig meat. Or kindling. Or other tools in that process. Puppies could be stolen also, I suppose.

futurebird wrote:

And I just get kind of tired of everything coming back to iron/efficiency/fertility.

Well, civilization building isn't always efficient is it? Buildings in OHOL satisfy civilization building even when they are bad, don't they?

I don't know what 'theft of civilization' is in a general sense. I know what theft from a civilization is. Do you mean a massive amount of plundering perhaps?

DaTrüf! · 2019-06-05 23:48:53

dogs can be lead wtf

Amon · 2019-06-06 09:01:28

Dog's can't be lead.
If alone. Yeah. But this isn't an alone time simulator.
One multiple people are in the vicinity, the dog is gone.

pein · 2019-06-06 15:20:14

futurebird wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Someone had to have mutton meat to make a dog, and carnitas are required to make an adult dog. A knife is need for both, which require a forge used more than one or multiple forges. Dogs are a sign of civilization... or theft of a civilization. So, in terms of civilization building, dogs do something with respect to a fundamental concept of the game.
Stop being such a wet blanket. We all know that the "most efficient" town would be something like one cow, a bunch of buckets in a house with a huge stockpile of corn. Everyone lives on milk and stays inside. Wall off the town with no door and have one sheep for occasional compost for the corn, carefully yum chain and never really do anything.
Now doing that once or twice might be fun but NO ONE. Not even you plays for perfect efficiency, because it would be boring like all of these repetitive responses you put on every damn thread about "blah blah blah fertilely" WE GET IT you don't think the game mechanics perfectly match the vision of the game.
But, my god... can you just ... IDK relax or something?
I'm getting exasperated by proxy from your whinging on about this all the damn time.

each time spoonwood says "YUM" drink a cup of beer
one shot of tequila for "fertility"
a gin when says "parenting"
most relaxating drinking game, but you might need be washed out in 30 min

Sukallinen · 2019-06-06 15:42:07

*Sigh* Bagel. Should've visited you more often when you were still alive.

Ever found the sibling, walrus ?

futurebird · 2019-06-06 15:50:30

pein wrote:

each time spoonwood says "YUM" drink a cup of beer
one shot of tequila for "fertility"
a gin when says "parenting"

RIP everyone who plays this game.

You know what? Never change, Spoon. Never ever change.

WalrusesConquer · 2019-06-06 18:19:39

I didn't no...they are lost somewhere out there ;-;

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-06-05 12:25:08

Amon's grief on man's best friend not being man's best friend

#2 2019-06-05 15:02:12

Re: Amon's grief on man's best friend not being man's best friend

#3 2019-06-05 15:14:18

Re: Amon's grief on man's best friend not being man's best friend

#4 2019-06-05 15:34:26

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#5 2019-06-05 15:50:47

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#6 2019-06-05 18:51:42

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#7 2019-06-05 19:03:00

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#10 2019-06-05 23:48:53

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#11 2019-06-06 09:01:28

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