Urgent: Pumpkins should be edible in some fashion

sigmen4020 · 2019-11-01 13:12:11

I know this might look like a simple suggestion thread, but the pumpkin not being edible is more problematic than it first appears. To get pumpkin seeds you need to plant squash, and then you have a 20 % chance a pumpkin will grow instead. This means that 1 in 5 of all squash plants in your stew farm will turn into inedible pumpkin. There is currently hype for halloween, so people want to make Jack O' Lanterns, but that won't always be the case. A crop having a risk of 20 % to turn inedible is pretty bad. This also means that you potentially get wild squash to start the stew farm only to get a pumpkin plant you didn't want.

The 20 % chance doesn't need to go away, since it works the same the other way around (pumpkin plants have a 20 % chance to be a squash plant), as long as pumpkin become edible in some fashion. You could make it simple and just let pumpkin be used as a replacement ingredient for squash in stew (This could potentially become a new yum food) or the classic pumpkin pie.

Anyway hope this gets fixed soon.

Edit: Also if pumpkins are made edible, they should give 3 seeds rather than the 1 you currently get. Also as far as using pumpkin as a replacement for squash in Three sisters stew, I have found several recipes where you can do exactly that. This is just one example:
https://www.vegkitchen.com/three-sisters-stew/

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2019-11-01 13:20:39)

Lum · 2019-11-01 13:24:14

I bet we'll get pumpkin pie for a Thanksgiving food update.

sigmen4020 · 2019-11-01 13:27:21

Lum wrote:

I bet we'll get pumpkin pie for a Thanksgiving food update.

That would make sense. Would still be nice to at least have pumpkin be a replacement for squash in stew until then though. I predict that pumpkins will be an even worse problem than tomatoes, onions and peppers ever were, if they aren't made into a food ingredient sooner rather than later.

The_Anabaptist · 2019-11-01 20:27:38

Honestly, a chance at crop failure sounds like something that should be replicated to all crops. Thinking that you get a set "x" bonus of foodstuffs for the planting is a very naive world view. A variable yield could indicate an early frost, seasonal flooding, freak hailstorm, etc. Basically that it was a particularly bad year this harvest season and the kids are gonna go hungry this winter.

Lets see some honest representation of a farmer's risk.

The_Anabaptist

pein · 2019-11-01 21:20:10

either that or make candles last longer (or at least give back the thread)

sigmen4020 · 2019-11-01 22:00:56

The_Anabaptist wrote:

Honestly, a chance at crop failure sounds like something that should be replicated to all crops. Thinking that you get a set "x" bonus of foodstuffs for the planting is a very naive world view. A variable yield could indicate an early frost, seasonal flooding, freak hailstorm, etc. Basically that it was a particularly bad year this harvest season and the kids are gonna go hungry this winter.
Lets see some honest representation of a farmer's risk.
The_Anabaptist

I’d be fine with farmers risk, but having getting pumpkins be a failure just seems dumb. He could solve it easily just by having pumpkins be a replacement ingredient for squash in stew. Having pumpkins be a farming just seems completely arbitrary. Also there is currently no way to get rid of pumpkins, which means that stew farming now creates endless clutter.

sigmen4020 · 2019-11-01 22:02:56

pein wrote:

either that or make candles last longer (or at least give back the thread)

Still won’t solve the problem of them being endless clutter that is literally impossible to get rid of.

Amon · 2019-11-01 22:11:47

Carved pumpkins could wilt, and then you can dump them onto the compost.

Last edited by Amon (2019-11-01 22:12:02)

Spoonwood · 2019-11-02 01:48:25

I doubt it's a mistake. It makes keeping a sustainable food supply more difficult. Since Jason insists on the 'everything runs out' notion as if that's what people want, in spite of people repeatedly telling him otherwise and apparently refusing to them seriously in what they say, it stands to reason he meant for squash seeds to have a probability to turn into pumpkin seeds, with pumpkin being inedible.

fug · 2019-11-02 02:17:34

Spoonwood wrote:

I doubt it's a mistake. It makes keeping a sustainable food supply more difficult. Since Jason insists on the 'everything runs out' notion as if that's what people want, in spite of people repeatedly telling him otherwise and apparently refusing to them seriously in what they say, it stands to reason he meant for squash seeds to have a probability to turn into pumpkin seeds, with pumpkin being inedible.

Get the tinfoil off your head please.

It's purposeful he made squash turn into pumpkins to reduce having to add in another plant to a biome + everything that comes with it. It was the quickest way to introduce a pumpkin without a bunch of work. I'm sure pumpkins aren't going to be inedible forever and this isn't some attempt to fuck food up so much as its for a quick fun update.

Saolin · 2019-11-02 02:32:36

Pumpkin pie would be nice. Kitchens have seemed to be more barren of food than usual since the rabbit update, so it would help partially replace the previously abundant supply of rabbits. 20% chance to produce pumpkin isn't nearly enough to completely replace rabbits, which is fine, pies have been OP. Months ago i considered the possibility of a barbeque/grill (hot coals/flat rock on coals) building and why it didn't already exist as part of the metagame. Aside from these foods being generally less efficient which DestinyCall helped me notice, i realized that storage options are the main obstacle as only fish and cooked rabbit can be stored in slot boxes (and rabbits are way worse now). I don't think tacos, burritos, fries or chips can be stored in slot boxes, but even if they can its only a marginal improvement compared to plates all over the floor, and one of the best items in this category, eggs, is horribly space inefficient; all of these factors making this type of cooking best suited for a one-off edge of town cooking session.

Amon · 2019-11-02 09:31:24

At least out of those foods, you can stack multiple on a tile, so you can bring a plate of beanboys to a workplace without causing clutterissue while simultaneously feeding the many.
As long as they remember to return the plate for a new batch.

SirCaio · 2019-11-02 15:01:37

fug wrote:

It's purposeful he made squash turn into pumpkins to reduce having to add in another plant to a biome + everything that comes with it. It was the quickest way to introduce a pumpkin without a bunch of work.

Although it seems like just a simple design choice in order to reduce work, I'm sure he did some research before adding it, as this correlates very well with real life.

Both hubbard and pumpkins are squashes, they're both in the Cucurbita genus and they both originated form Cucurbita andreana, the wild squash in game. They even have very similar flowers.
Now, I'm sure they're vastly different species, but they're similar enough to reason the simplification done in game.

Spoonwood · 2019-11-17 01:22:23

fug wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
I doubt it's a mistake. It makes keeping a sustainable food supply more difficult. Since Jason insists on the 'everything runs out' notion as if that's what people want, in spite of people repeatedly telling him otherwise and apparently refusing to them seriously in what they say, it stands to reason he meant for squash seeds to have a probability to turn into pumpkin seeds, with pumpkin being inedible.
Get the tinfoil off your head please.
It's purposeful he made squash turn into pumpkins to reduce having to add in another plant to a biome + everything that comes with it. It was the quickest way to introduce a pumpkin without a bunch of work. I'm sure pumpkins aren't going to be inedible forever and this isn't some attempt to fuck food up so much as its for a quick fun update.

I didn't comment on this before, but in light of this update especially, I feel even more on target with my previous comment.

Don't you think Jason expected that families would die out because of not having the ability to the right technology after the racist changes which made it so only certain races could interact with certain objects? In accordance with that, it makes sense to believe that Jason would want a useful crop like squash to turn into inedible pumpkins.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-17 06:27:32

I understand why you would think that way, Spoon. It does feel like he's doing it on purpose. But I think this is a case for Hanlon's Razor:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by folly."

From what I've seen and the posts I've read, I don't think Jason actually thought that far ahead. He only came up with this idea earlier this week as a natural extension of the tools update. Limiting tools forced people to cooperate within their family, but didn't stimulate inter-family trade. Forcing people to seek out other families to progress to higher tech was suppose to do the same thing on a global scale. There are many ways this could have been done, of course. But the goal was to keep the amount of coding minimal and the impact on the players too big to be ignored. If it was subtle, we'd just keep playing the same old ways and Jason hates when his great ideas are ignored - just look what happened with property fences.

I think he genuinely hoped that these changes would work to stimulate long-distance trading and I don't think he even considered how jacked up the game would become with the village's long-term survival hinging on a precarious alignment of multiple skin-tones and pure luck. Even in the Rift, it would be a struggle. In the open world, it is horribly impractical. Especially since he made no increase to the amount of water available from early game sources.

In my opinion, we really don't have a large enough player population to keep every town alive with three different family lines. That means three times as many women who need to have the right colored babies. Three times as many vulnerable targets for griefers or warmongers. Three times as many Eves who need to spawn close together and share the same resources. And three times as much water being utilized to feed all those people. With this system, you can expect that the majority of the towns you are born into are doomed from the start. Either they are too far from other villages or they won't find them in time or one of the other flavors will be killed off by griefers.

I really wish a different approach was tried, because properly balancing this one is going to be rough-sledding.

For example, having families that were better adapted to live in other biomes would be interesting. You could be born to a tribe that lives in the colder regions of the map and has a unique early tech tree that is different from the current start (which requires grass/swamp/prairie) or you might be born in a tribe that adapted to be able to thrive in the hotter parts of the map. The regional specializations could be "softer" to allow movement and trade between villages, while still encouraging people to settle in their ideal temperature zone. This would encourage distinct settlements, instead of one big melting pot city. And it would mean that each tribe could survive on its own without NEEDING to find other villages .. but visiting another village might give you access to things that were hard to find or rarely made in your home village - like biome-specific crops.

However, that kind of a major overhaul would require significantly more coding and it would be necessary to rework the early tech tree to provide unique branches for hot/cold as well as adding a decent amount of new content to flesh things out properly, so the other village types weren't just re-skins of the current village. It would also take a lot longer than just four days to push into the game, so you can see why we ended up with Jungle chocolates and Desert coffees, instead of true regional specialization.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-17 09:39:50)

Jk Howling · 2019-11-17 08:28:34

Being able to replace squash in 3 sisters stew with pumpkin is a good idea. Chances are, if he adds in pumpkin pie, it's going to be a shittily long and fruitless recipe with very little outcome [see: ice cream, pork tacos, etc.] and isn't at all going to be a good sink for those extra pumpkins you end up getting. If he does go strictly with an over-complicated pumpkin pie recipe and nothing else, you bet your ass those pumpkins are just going to continue sitting around wasting space more often than get made into food.

Ideally, we'd get a somewhat simple recipe for them. Being able to cut up + bake the pumpkin would be simple enough, along with roasting the seeds [a personal household favorite!]
Or as suggested, being used as a substitute for squash in the Three Sisters Stew recipe.
Or make them their own plant / give us a definite way to obtain pumpkin seeds [like flint chipping the wild seed] rather than have it be chance-based.

At the absolute minimum, if we're getting over-complicated recipe that people are gonna try once and then never touch again, then they should also decay.

Last edited by Jk Howling (2019-11-17 08:33:24)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-17 09:49:46

Pumpkin pie would probably just be a pumpkin smashed into a pie crust. A little extra effort would have us chunking up the pumpkin on a plate, like squash, and putting it into a bowl, smashing it with a sharp rock, then dolling it out into four (or more) pie crusts.

The "easy" recipe is of course a really shitty food, resource-wise. One pumpkin per pie is too costly. But the recipe with extra steps would make more pies and make it a better food, maybe even as good as carrot pie, if the numbers are juggled correctly. Hopefully better than berry pies, which are the worst pie, from a food efficiency standpoint. Ideally, I think pumpkin pie should be BETTER than carrot, providing more pips and decent water use.

But it's not up to me to decide these things. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

It would be nice if we had more options for dishware beyond plate or bowl. But roasting pumpkin in the oven would be a nice simple way to make it edible. You could have that be the quick and dirty way to eat pumpkin, while pumpkin pie was the more involved way to get more pips for your efforts.

Pumpkin soup would be a nice thing too. Maybe pumpkin, water, and salt. Mmmmmm tasty.

pedrito confesiones · 2019-11-17 10:00:08

no edible pumpkins

DestinyCall · 2019-11-17 10:09:27

pedrito confesiones wrote:

no edible pumpkins

We have pumpkins.
We have milk.

All we need is coffee beans and we could be making pumpkin spice lattes.

antking:]# · 2019-11-17 16:24:52

Spoonwood wrote:

I doubt it's a mistake. It makes keeping a sustainable food supply more difficult. Since Jason insists on the 'everything runs out' notion as if that's what people want, in spite of people repeatedly telling him otherwise and apparently refusing to them seriously in what they say, it stands to reason he meant for squash seeds to have a probability to turn into pumpkin seeds, with pumpkin being inedible.

Pumpkin plants have a 20% chance of becoming squash again

https://onetech.info/3232-Blooming-Pumpkin-Plant

Saolin · 2019-11-18 18:03:15

A pumpkin pie recipe could include sugar.

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-18 21:24:25

Yes, I do have some plans for pumpkins....

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-18 21:25:18

Also, I speak from experience here:

Don't make Three Sister's Stew with pumpkin instead of squash. Pumpkin is really flavorless by comparison. You will not be happy with the results.

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#1 2019-11-01 13:12:11

Urgent: Pumpkins should be edible in some fashion

#2 2019-11-01 13:24:14

Re: Urgent: Pumpkins should be edible in some fashion

#3 2019-11-01 13:27:21

Re: Urgent: Pumpkins should be edible in some fashion

#4 2019-11-01 20:27:38

Re: Urgent: Pumpkins should be edible in some fashion

#5 2019-11-01 21:20:10

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#6 2019-11-01 22:00:56

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#7 2019-11-01 22:02:56

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#8 2019-11-01 22:11:47

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#9 2019-11-02 01:48:25

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#10 2019-11-02 02:17:34

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#11 2019-11-02 02:32:36

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#12 2019-11-02 09:31:24

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#13 2019-11-02 15:01:37

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#14 2019-11-17 01:22:23

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#15 2019-11-17 06:27:32

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#16 2019-11-17 08:28:34

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#17 2019-11-17 09:49:46

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#18 2019-11-17 10:00:08

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#19 2019-11-17 10:09:27

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#20 2019-11-17 16:24:52

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#21 2019-11-18 18:03:15

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#22 2019-11-18 21:24:25

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#23 2019-11-18 21:25:18

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