Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

Spoonwood · 2019-06-02 00:53:29

The first quote comes from May 7th:

jasonrohrer wrote:

Still thinking about how to prefer your own current family over other families in your current life (without depending on cross-life effects). If you have to choose between two kids, you should always feel a gameplay reason to choose your own. If there's a neighboring town, you should hesitate to share valuable resources with them for very real gameplay reasons. You should not WANT to wander away from your town and migrate to some other town to continue a trans-life personal project. You should want to build a wall around your town for real reasons. Towns with walls are interesting. You have to negotiate to get inside from the outside. Negotiation is interesting.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6301

The war sword got added on May 10th:

https://onetech.info/versions/224

On May 14th Jason says the following:

jasonrohrer wrote:

And this is doubly true with the new war swords and language update. Here is this outsider who can't necessarily be trusted. You can't even communicate your intention to them directly. But if you can establish a trusting relationship with them, that trust will be very deep and meaningful indeed. That is a place where the human spirit can really shine through. I've built an enormous wall for the two of you to climb over. If you can forge a friendship in the face of those odds, it will be amazing.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6452

Gone is the talk about people preferring their lineages over others. Think I'm exaggerating? On May 16th Jason says this:

jasonrohrer wrote:

It's not about war, specifically.
It's about interesting and rich dynamics.
...
Language and war swords are one example of rich dynamics.
...

We should have game mechanics worth arguing about. Worth getting philosophical about.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6516

These statements of purpose just don't line up. They are not consistent. Rich dynamics, whatever they are, just don't line up necessarily with people playing for the sake of their lineages. And playing for the sake of one's lineage doesn't necessarily line with rich dynamics, because playing for the sake of a town might be a richer dynamic than playing for the sake of a lineage. Or it might be a richer dynamics to take on a project like making a s. o. s. radio, even if that's not useful enough to justify it (please note I said s. o. s. radio, NOT the other one), or making a camera. In part that will depend on the group playing.

Why did Jason change what he said about his motivation? Did he simply forget or was he trying to convince people that he made a good update?

Guppy · 2019-06-02 00:55:36

Whats the point of this? Except being negative that is

futurebird · 2019-06-02 00:58:34

Guppy wrote:

Whats the point of this? Except being negative that is

I think that is the only point.

FeignedSanity · 2019-06-02 01:08:03

futurebird wrote:

Guppy wrote:
Whats the point of this? Except being negative that is
I think that is the only point.

In other news, 2+2 still equals 4.

Keyin · 2019-06-02 01:22:34

These quotes from Jason do not seem to contradict each other to me.

Sure, they express different reasons behind the language/war sword mechanic(preferring your lineage, creating rich dynamic, raising philosophical questions).

To me the lineage preference seems like the original reason for the implementation, and later quotes reflect additional reasons for the update he hadn't originally thought of.

Last edited by Keyin (2019-06-02 01:46:51)

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-06-02 01:38:59

Spoon can you seriously just wait a week? Dudes goin through a loss, and needs time. I doubt he's thinking about the game right now. If for some reason he comes on here this is going to be something he sees and get salt rubbed into his wounds.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-02 02:15:27

First off, for the people wondering about the post, you really would best to care about what a game designer says. Disagree with my conclusions all you see fit to do, but a lot of this post consists of quotes from him. I included the original sources so that anyone interested can scrutinize them in more detail for their own self to determine if I've quote mined him or not. Just saying 'it's negative' sounds an awful lot like a refusal to look at what goes on. The point comes in getting as much of a realization as to what Jason has been with respect to OHOL and the community and how that may or may not influence game design and how he interacts with you. Make your own conclusions about him and what he does. I don't have the last word and it's not like I know everything. This comment ends with questions that I don't have the answer to.

Keyin wrote:

These quotes do from Jason do not seem to contradict each other to me.
Sure, they express different reasons behind the language/war sword mechanic(preferring your lineage, creating rich dynamic, raising philosophical questions).
To me the lineage preference seems like the original reason for the implementation, and later quotes reflect additional reasons for the update he hadn't originally thought of.

Additionally motivations which he hadn't thought of beforehand? That doesn't make sense to me, since motivation precedes action. One doesn't become motivated to do something after you've done it. Motivation only can precede action, not succeed action.

Perhaps the later sentences by Jason might be him trying to say that the update has good aspects and those are the aspects. But he says 'about', which suggests motivation.

What's even stranger is that the original post in the last link asked a question:

Dodge wrote:

Should the sword kill everyone from other families or only foreigners? If members of a family get accepted in a town should their futur generations still be able to kill (or be killed by) everyone in town from the other family?

Futurebird answers the question. People saying 'end the sword', also answer the question in a way, or at least the topic raised (how should swords work? "They shouldn't work" is the "end the sword" response). Jason doesn't do any of that though. I did ask a question, but it was about value of an in-game object, not Jason's motivation. Value could get judged by whether or not the sword fulfilled the original motivation, but we need the original motivation clear, and unfortunately it became rather muddled.

Maybe Jason didn't know how to answer Dodge's question other than to point how the war sword existed already (kills anyone outside of one's lineage). Or answering could be redundant, given that someone looked at current game design. That sounds fine. But, Jason then apparently writes about his motivation. And it's not just the war sword, it's other things too:

jasonrohrer wrote:

And I hope you see what happened here. With a few rather small changes, we are suddenly playing an entirely different and more interesting game than the one we were playing last week.

What? Why is Jason saying that in that thread out of the middle of nowhere? What was going on with him saying everything that he said there? Did he believe it relevant to that thread, or was something else going on there? Who asked about his motivation in that thread for the language features? I mean, if someone asked, I can see a reason for him talking about his motivation for those other things. But no one even brought those other features up. So, why did Jason apparently start talking about his motivation for an entire update out of nowhere? What was going on there really?

And no, I don't have an answer for that.

Keyin · 2019-06-02 02:40:10

Spoonwood wrote:

Additionally motivations which he hadn't thought of beforehand? That doesn't make sense to me, since motivation precedes action.

Yes, humans are strange creatures. Once you perform an action, your brain will create a reason for doing it. Especially in cases involving reflexes/flight or flight. Your mind doesn't have time to create a reason until after you have already acted.

Spoonwood wrote:

One doesn't become motivated to do something after you've done it. Motivation only can precede action, not succeed action.

When I said reason I meant it more as justification rather than motivation. But still, reasons for actions can come to your mind after you do something. I have done plenty of things without thinking before and come up with a justification of why afterward.

Spoonwood wrote:

Perhaps the later sentences by Jason might be him trying to say that the update has good aspects and those are the aspects. But he says 'about', which suggests motivation.

Yes, he does say 'it is about rich and interesting dynamics' because caring about every other human equally isn't a rich or interesting dynamic to Jason. Caring about your family above others is a rich/interesting dynamic to Jason. Getting you to care about your lineage in order to create a more rich/interesting dynamic.

pein · 2019-06-02 13:02:54

in reality: noobs can kill easier
skil ldoesnt matter in "combat"
rich dynamic means you slaughter a whole city in minutes

Dodge · 2019-06-02 13:41:52

pein wrote:

in reality: noobs can kill easier
skil ldoesnt matter in "combat"
rich dynamic means you slaughter a whole city in minutes

For short range this system is necessary but for long range i agree it should be about skill and not aimbot.

Then combat would be more interesting long range VS short range.

Also dying in one hit isn't that interesting imo and the medical system still doesnt allow to carry pads.

futurebird · 2019-06-02 14:43:21

Dodge wrote:

pein wrote:
in reality: noobs can kill easier
skil ldoesnt matter in "combat"
rich dynamic means you slaughter a whole city in minutes

For short range this system is necessary but for long range i agree it should be about skill and not aimbot.
Then combat would be more interesting long range VS short range.
Also dying in one hit isn't that interesting imo and the medical system still doesnt allow to carry pads.

You can now at least move a bowl of pad in a cart. But yeah, some way to wrap pads (sterile gold foil?) and put them in a bag of apron would be great.

Dodge · 2019-06-02 14:48:33

futurebird wrote:

Dodge wrote:
pein wrote:
in reality: noobs can kill easier
skil ldoesnt matter in "combat"
rich dynamic means you slaughter a whole city in minutes

For short range this system is necessary but for long range i agree it should be about skill and not aimbot.
Then combat would be more interesting long range VS short range.
Also dying in one hit isn't that interesting imo and the medical system still doesnt allow to carry pads.
You can now at least move a bowl of pad in a cart. But yeah, some way to wrap pads (sterile gold foil?) and put them in a bag of apron would be great.

I mean gold foil why not but i pictured more alcohol since we have sugar now and maybe a portable glass bottle.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-06-02 00:53:29

Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#2 2019-06-02 00:55:36

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#3 2019-06-02 00:58:34

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#4 2019-06-02 01:08:03

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#5 2019-06-02 01:22:34

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#6 2019-06-02 01:38:59

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#7 2019-06-02 02:15:27

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#8 2019-06-02 02:40:10

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#9 2019-06-02 13:02:54

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#10 2019-06-02 13:41:52

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#11 2019-06-02 14:43:21

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

#12 2019-06-02 14:48:33

Re: Jason's Conflicting Statements on Swords and Related Changes

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