a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Just as in the real-life weapons control debate, it's not the weapons or mechanisms by which the mechanisms that function that are the problem. It's the people.
Yesterday, I spawned into a nice little farming village, decent advancement and nice people, everyone clothed and we were really gearing up to improving the camp further. This guy comes strolling in, I'm tending to the carrots, I watch him start picking the ones I explicitly said were for seeds, he grabs a knife and kills someone, comes back eating carrots everytime he has a health bar missing and picks literally every carrot there, eats all our pies, eats literally everything and as I'm trying to ask him wtf he's doing he responds "Shut the f*** up f**" and "You're all going to die" - 100% intentional griefing, I got a short clip of the latter stages of his nonsense, I can't understand what kind of person would get his rocks off being an idiot like that but I guess when you have no friends and your family hates you you've got to get creative in your fun to stop the existential dread from setting in.
We need community controls, the ability to ban people / remove them from servers, maybe even allow volunteer mods elected by the community via forum etc who can swap servers, teleport to the player and observe and make an action, all actions must include a clip (maybe integrate something in the client to record medium res 15 second clips or something when creating a moderation action, the moderation actions for each mod are later reviewed and if abuse of power is evident they are permanently removed and perhaps if the action is severe are actioned themselves.
As it stands, there is no consequence for griefing. We NEED consequence, or this will not stop, and may only get worse.
Solid idea - what prevents trolls of the rating system flagging everyone they meet as trolls? Maybe to counteract that a weighted system where more trusted players have more of an impact on ratings, so one good review is a big deal, and one negative can have a big impact to eliminate trolls.
Oh, and also an interesting one that was really fun but I'll keep it short as a story -
I was born into a tiny, very new farming community, a male, my mother, and a sister as I recall, it was easy enough, but as I was new to the game I wanted to explore and help out. I went out to gather resources when I was young, and I found some interesting stuff and importantly signs of life, I decided that it was worth the effort to keep exploring and see if I could find the base from which the signs of life had come. I quested, subsisting on gooseberries, until finally I stumbled upon a massive abandoned colony, tech, tools, great farming resources, even two wells which unfortunately at that point were dry. I was thrilled, I found my way back to my initial colony and I told them the great news, that I had found us a much better farm and that we should all move there. My mother and the male came along, my mother already aging at that point, my sister had gone south and was never seen again. We all gathered up, I brought them North to where I had found the base, and we moved in and thrived, pushing on and reviving the production of the town and truly thriving before my time was up. It was great. I was proud that as a child who no one expected anything from I found a means by which to truly thrive and support my entire lineage from just a little exploration.
I was born into a rather sizeable settlement, but it was abundantly clear that it was an inherited settlement as my mother had no clue what she was doing, she later died before our farm production had been re-established, but once we got going we really hit a great stride - I tended to farming/watering and all by myself for a good few years until I finally had a daughter, I taught her how to run water and she began helping around the farm. Later on, I had another daughter and at that point I was pretty pleased with our ability to continue onward. We really got into a good groove, even starting to introduce gooseberries, wheat, and milkweed into our crop rotation. I kept teaching the kids little tidbits about proper farming, and we continued to grow. Eventually my daughters decided to allow another generation into the world, they each had a child by my recollection, but at that point I was already aging, and perhaps a bit senile. Anyway, weary bones and all I kept working hard, I knew ahead of time that our carrot production was suffering and I worked with my daughters to fix it, we finally hit a great stride with the compost I had taught everyone to produce, and again it seemed like things were good. I was getting old, I took one last water run to help the farm out, filling water skins and hobbling back to help my children and grandchildren along.
Then, in my twilight years, we reached a point where through some small mistakes we had a shortage of seeds, and we were waiting on a plot to seed over and restore us to providence. Then, one of the granddaughters, black hair as I recall, short, stubby, she asks "Where do we keep the seeds?" I responded "We're saving the bottom left for seeds." The girl walks near the plot and I knew something was up, like feeling a disaster before it happens, I frantically typed "NO we're saving those" and she started picking, pick pick pick, and suddenly, the dreams of a beautiful and verdant restoration to providence had been shattered by the hairbrained decision of that child. The entire tribe went ballistic, all realizing that we had been singlehandedly doomed by that girl. I was so intensely typing that I didn't watch my own hunger, and I was in my last years regardless so it was my time regardless.
I died of starvation, 58 years old. I lived just long enough to die disappointed.
This game hahaha
Here's a good question to ask yourself to prove my point. When was the last time you were born as a female and were rejected because a well run tribe specifically wanted / needed males?
As far as I am aware I don't think there is any penalty whatsoever for giving birth which makes sense given that it's involuntary but that means that there is literally no cost for being female and only advantages since their reproduction is asexual.
A female could just as well travel away from the base and hunt and trap while ignoring children along the way. Sure, you might feel bad dooming your progeny to starvation but it is vastly more advantageous to do so then to continually be raising unnecessary offspring whom you do not have the resources or capacity to support.
That is my whole point in a game where females can reproduce asexually and receive no drawbacks for that ability when neglecting their offspring the end result is that one sex is just better than the other from a min-max perspective.
You can just ignore the baby as most do when playing an Eve, that means literally no cost whatsoever, the most you can say is that they have some bones to deal with but even that isn't as bad as being a male and literally not being able to carry on your civilization through progeny. You might get a lot done but you do nothing for the next generation, you can farm but a female could do that as well, and allthewhile the female can produce more offspring who can aid in tending to farms and gathering resources, as a male you are always and forever (for an hour) going to be alone, and you get nothing in exchange for that very glaring weakness.
Okay, so this has become readily apparent as an issue in the game. The problem is as follows - females in OHOL are objectively better than males meaning in a game where resources are thin and females can reproduce asexually it is actually a good idea to throw out all the males because they can't reproduce and bring literally nothing extra to the table to make up for this lack of utility. This means that 50% of the time you spawn in you are useless, and that feels fucking bad, man.
Some fixes we brainstormed in Discord to address the issue:
Men might have some perk, like increased combat effectiveness, reduced hunger, increased carrying capacity or something, various other options and please post any ideas you have as well as means to address this.
I am sure you all have noticed this, and it will NOT stop until there is a solution implemented, the future will only become more and more disadvantageous as a string of male children can doom a society, that feels BAD from a gameplay perspective, and the males don't even do anything to warrant their presence, it's a strange twist of fate compared to reality where the opposite is true in terms of survival and for the purpose of improving the game this must be addressed. Men need a counterbalance as women can choose to ignore their babies and literally have no drawbacks for doing so makling them undeniably superior in this game currently.
Looking forward to the solutions proposed, great game Jason!
Great work Matok, I appreciate the approach you're taking - we should start a docs file for comparison, that way we can collaboratively compile data. I can create one and we can start logging various techniques so we can find an optimal strategy and push civilization onward.
I just bought the game a couple hours ago and I am definitely having fun with it. Great work Jason Rohrer!~
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