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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 Re: Main Forum » Eve spawn analysis: 11-05 to 11-18 » Today 09:56:43

Such a strange concept to have roads in a game that has an endless fast extending map, like Sisyphus forever rolling a boulder up a hill


#2 Re: Main Forum » DestinyCall, on Geographic Barriers » Today 09:27:29

Natural barriers like oceans, mountains etc are technically possible to be added to the game but it has to come from a hand drawn image, like a paint file where you would draw the oceans, the mountains and make them into a specific shape/disposition.

If you only add them as biomes in the current map generation system it would either be some round biome with a limited size that you could just skip by going around it so completely useless or be a band of ocean like in the current map which would both look and be uninteresting and players would eventually hate it.

If it's made with a hand drawn image then these barriers could have any form imaginable and you can choose which biomes are separated like for example the jungle, desert and thundra separated from each other and in order to get the ressources you have to overcome these barriers.

Speaking of barriers i think they are the key to remplace the current forced biome restriction mechanic and make it into something much more organic and interesting.


Every special biome has an outer layer, so the tundra for example is surrounded by arctic ice, only the tundra has oil, the arctic ice that surrounds it has a lot of blizzards and is extremly cold so it acts as a natural barrier to access the oil in the tundra.

Everyone has access to every biome and can freely, pick up, drop or craft any object in them BUT only the gingers are immune to the blizzards and freezing effect of the arctic ice and tundra, so they only are regular cold and not freezing plus resistant to blizzards in case they encounter them.

This way the player has a choice, i can either risk it and go in the unfamiliar biome to get ressources keeping in mind that it's extremly dangerous and that i might not come back, or trade with the native people of that biome who can easily get these ressources.

This can be applied to other special biomes.

Browns immune to yellow fever from mosquitoes and comfortable in the jungle and deep jungle climate.

Blacks immune to desert storms and resistant to the scorching sun from the desert and sand desert.

#3 Re: Main Forum » Your first grief? » Yesterday 22:18:38

In the rift when you reached top tech level you had something to do, other villages where trying to invade you to steal your ressources and you had to protect your village.

But now there's nothing, it's extremly boring, nothing happens.

I will admit that it was exagerated due to being a tiny box but still much more interesting than currently, i would take being killed by invaders over dying of boredom anytime in this game.

Destiny you want this game to be like stardew valley or some crafting simulator but this isn't what this game is about and by saying this i'm dismissing every point you make and everything you say by categorizing you as someone who is out of alignement and should rather play another game instead of trying to make this one into some PG stuff where everyone has to be forced nice to each other or they get banned.

The same way you dismissed my statements on the past game by categorizing them as nostalgia "rose-colored glass" instead of an accurate desciption of how my experience of the game was.

Obviously not serious about the last two paragraphs but now you get it.

#5 Re: Main Forum » Your first grief? » Yesterday 13:49:58

DestinyCall wrote:

It is easy to remember the past through rose-colored glass.

Everyone can have their opinion, you have your own, dont need to dismiss others.

#6 Re: Main Forum » Your first grief? » 2020-11-27 18:41:40

It's really too bad that Jason took a shortcut on the limited map idea and made it into a rift box, even though the rift had some of the most interesting lives, engaging, challenging etc, it also had some of the worse due to being a tiny box, had it been different it would have been a success and half of the weird mechanic that we have currently would have no reason to be.

Jason knows that the current stuff is not the best but it's still something, the best that you could think off in that moment in other words.

Solving these issues like why the game has no trade, is not that easy as you would think, so using a forced mechanic so players exchange comes as one possible solution, not the best but still something.

Pretty hard to convince him to remove all these mechanics that he spent a lot of time making to replace them with something that creates these situations without needing them.

Sunk cost fallacy

I really hope he puts them into question and changes them for something else, because currently the game has never been so boring and each time i launch it i remember why i dont play it anymore.

#7 Re: Main Forum » No Vision for New Players » 2020-11-19 11:13:19

But you dont live only one life, if you are interested in the game you keep playing it.

You cant translate 60 minutes to actual 60 years in terms of discovering the game, otherwise you would paly only one life and then quit.

#8 Re: Main Forum » Wow, trading is a prefect system with rich dynamics! » 2020-11-19 10:30:00

There should always be a choice, you can either choose option a or b (or c,b,d etc), but with the current biome restriction there is no choice, there is only one option, you HAVE to find the other family to "trade" with them.

Not only it makes the game very linear and boring it also causes that type of frustration where if the family you want to "trade" with is either uninterested, doesn't understand or wathever other reason you cant force them to cut sugar cane for example so you're stuck.

At the same time completely allowing players to do everything also has the same issue because then you dont have to choose between options it's also linear but in the other way, you can always do that action so there's no thinking about it, it's one sad branch instead of a full tree of possibilities and options.

So how do you at the same time allow someone who is not native from a biome to access the ressources from that biome but make it somehow also an interesting option to trade with the native people from that biome?

You could simply make the browns for example, immune to mosquitoes and being comfortable with jungle temperatures and other races struggling with jungle temperatures, so another race could go in the biome and get ressources but it would be much dangerous and risk dying OR they could trade with brown people to get these ressources, the option would be there.

But this wouldn't work because then you could just plant latex and plam trees at the border of the jungle and never have to actually go in the jungle to get the ressources (all the other exploits like horse ridding etc could be easily fixable) so you would avoid all the dangers of the jungle and just get the ressources.

There is a way though, Jason mentionned that it would be possible to generate the map from a drawing, a paint PNG or JPG file for example, this would allow to shape biomes a specific way and even add other biomes around the existing one, so for example the deep jungle would be in the center and around it would be a thicc layer of jungle.

Only the deep jungle would have latex and palm trees and the jungle layer around it would be filled with mosquitoes and have the hotter jungle temperature, so in order to get latex or palm you would have to cross a layer jungle infested with mosquitoes and hotter temperatures, browns would easily get to the center being immune to them and comfortable in their native biome.

So you would have to choice to either risk it and go trough the jungle to get to the deeper jungle and get ressources OR trade with brown people to get them, the same model could easily be applied to other special biomes.

Example of maps:



#9 Re: Main Forum » No Vision For How Families Survive » 2020-11-19 10:05:05

It would be pretty simple to fix that, if a lineage dies to an update or because there wasn't any player available to be a baby and continue lineage (lineage dying because lack of players and not in game circumstances) then the next player connecting would be an "Eve" from the same lineage.

But honestly with how the game is currently it really doesn't matter if a lineage dies, another Eve will just spawn to replace it, the lineage dying hasn't any importance or meaning watsoever except maybe for the one player that started that lineage and maybe cares about some personnal high score.

#10 Re: Main Forum » No Vision for New Players » 2020-11-19 09:53:29

Do you mean 120 players+a bunch of old players or only 120 new players on one server?

Either way the race system although not the best is pretty straight forward if you're the wrong race for the biome you cant pickup stuff or interact with objects + you have a visible emote like freezing or wathever and if that's not enough you will eventually find a stone that magically tells you where the biome family is, useless imo since now the map is a band and special biomes dont extend infinitly in an unpredictable direction, but anyway even someone not very bright would figure it out eventually.

As for the "vision" of how a group of new players would survive, they would survive as long as possible and learn each life a little more, teaching others what they have learned and learning from them, slowly progressing until eventually they are not new anymore.

So basically, survive, learn and teach would be the "vision".

#11 Re: Main Forum » On "Nintendo Hard" Garbage » 2020-11-16 03:56:41

The_Anabaptist wrote:

One Hour One Life

I've always interpreted it as One Hour (maximum) One Life.  Unlike Spoonwood, I would love to see it interpreted as One Hour (maximum) One Life (maximum).

Don't like your birth mom, birth town, birth race, whatever and /die?  Great.  Log back in One Hour from now.
Die because the game was too hard, mother was incompetent, whatever?  Great.  Log back in at the end of One Hour.

I think the game would be savored by more players if the option to just start again right away was curtailed.
"Hunger gives flavor to the food" - Amit Kalantri


That was the original idea for this game, one of the easiest changes to put in place but probably the hardest decision to make, something that would completely change the way the game is played and give every life a thousand times more meaning.

No more babies that want to kill themselves because "this isn't the life that i want", you would do the best you can with what you were given.

Also the reason behind the life limit (joke currently set at 48 lives per hour iirc), so it's already in game just need to set it to 1 instead of 48

But honestly i dont think the game is ready for that at least not right now.

Right now the game is best played as a crafting simulator, a stardew valley "like" with a parenting twist, adding this to the game right now would just cause more frustration from players because it would make it harder to play the game like it currently is without making it more interesting.

#12 Re: News » Update: Homeland Biome Bands » 2020-11-13 01:42:30

Spoonwood wrote:

Villages on the same server could be close.  But, two villages one different servers aren't close.  Basically, you're using the idea of spreading families out, just doing it across servers.

Yes families that are on completely different technological level shouldn't be close together, shouldn't even be in the same world, but families that started at the same time and therefore are roughly on the same tech level are perfectly fine being close or relatively close to each other.

Spoonwood wrote:

But, if all of the servers got full, it wouldn't.

I like your optimism lol , if such was the case at some point it would be pretty easy to just add more servers.

Spoonwood wrote:

Also, I'll add that it seems like it's more than just the true Eve experience missing.  Building on top of what a true Eve *and other early generation members also* that someone had contact with at some level, whether a family member or outsider helping out, also doesn't seem like it's happening much, or the line of contact isn't clear at all.

A charcoal pump exhausting on generation 12... sigh.

I dont understand what you mean by that, do you mean that tech evolves too fast? going from discovering fire to making diesel engines to quickly?

#13 Re: News » Update: Homeland Biome Bands » 2020-11-12 16:18:50

Spoonwood wrote:

Server reset is not a true reset.  In contrast, arc reset is true reset with no tech lying around.  Or at least it was when this update *first* got put into effect.

It's very rare that the map gets wiped, so counting on that to have a real Eve experience is ridiculous.

Spoonwood wrote:

If players can join the server.  It sounded like your 'end of the world' idea wouldn't allow for players to join the server.  I guess I misunderstood though.  Were you just talking about the reflector directing players not checking a custom server, from an old world server to a new world server?  The old world might not die off in that case, if players who check a custom server kept on playing there (and plenty of players use bs2 as a custom server).  If there's no available players as moms and players can join a server, then the player joining becomes an Eve.  So, the old world might not die out.  That's not necessarily bad though.

You could only be Eve at the start of a world for a certain period, after that if no fertile woman are available for you to spawn you get redirected to another server that you can spawn in no matter what, when the last player dies in a world or if apocalypse is triggered the world resets.

Some servers would still have the "no start or end" setting and would keep going like currently, server 12-15?, to act as buffer in extreme cases where all the worlds would be near the end and there would be no possibility to spawn or simply for low pop server type of play.

This is the only way i see to have a true Eve experience and at the same time villages close enough to interact with each other, them not being in different stages of tech and all beginning at roughly the same time.

#14 Re: News » Update: Homeland Biome Bands » 2020-11-12 11:43:47

If he's talking about server reset then he shouldn't have quoted me since i wasn't talking about that at all and they are nothing new.

Or at least not mention issues with server reset when i'm talking about a server actually having a beginning and an end.

He mentionned "so ends of the world don't seem so happy with just human players as children" talking about end and not server update so maybe he got confused.

But anyway server restarts are an edge case and so little part compared to all the other lives that it's not worth mentionning and nobody cares if there's that one life out off hundred others where you didnt get a baby because the server had to restart, as for being a man and not having a baby it's pretty obvious and everybody in their right mind understands this.

Now if we're talking about men not having the father status that's another story and Jason already wrote a post for why it's like like this.

I wouldn't be opposed though for being able to marry someone else and make baby with mixed genetics given of course that they are from another family and that it wouldn't be a necessity, it could be a way for a white family to have black kids for example.

But with the way the game is currently (homeland, biome restriction etc) it would probably break it.

#15 Re: News » Update: Homeland Biome Bands » 2020-11-12 07:08:04

Spoonwood wrote:

There does exist arc reset, as happened after this update.  That made for a real start, and all arc restarts do that.  Ends of a server would likely end up similar to children of men mode, or would probably have a baby overload/starving children problem if they worked similar to how the Rift would reset (at least that's what seemed to have happened from the reports I saw... I didn't play then... at all).  The game gets advertised that players get children, so ends of the world don't seem so happy with just human players as children.  Ends of the world though could work with end phase children controlled by code to get around that issue.

No, it's not a true reset, the map is not wiped you can find tech laying around etc, also it's meta based on a technical necessity (server update) and not based on players actions and choices, start of servers are not issues regarding baby numbers since you can make players go Eve in case of overload the same way it works currently at a server restart...

Regarding the end of world, as long as you are a fertile woman you can get children if there is no more fertile woman or future possible fertile woman then eventually everybody dies and world ends.

If a player cant spawn in one world due to not having any fertile woman available then he is redirected to another world (server), so again no issue here.

Why would there be "just human players as children"? nonsense, as long as you are a fertile woman then you can get children "as advertised"

#16 Re: News » Update: Homeland Biome Bands » 2020-11-12 05:26:54

This update made the issue even more apparent due to how predictable the location of villages are (on a band), you cant have Eve villages next to top tech tier diesel engine civilisations because then you dont "rebuild civilization from scratch" anymore which is one of the main thing in the game, but at the same time if you cant find other villages because they are completely isolated like before then it's just a game of one family evolving alone and it's also not interesting.

I was waiting for the point where the game would hit that wall and it would be obvious that this doesn't work or rather it "works" but is it really what you want? @jasonrohrer

You cant have early villages and late game cvilisations living next to each other or even in the same world for that matter if you expect them to interact with each other.

One world, one start, one ending.

There's 16 servers, they are all separated worlds but they all follow the same pattern of not having a real start and not having a real end

A lot of players where asking for an "Eve button", obviously that would be an issue because if everyone would be Eve then there would be no sons and daughters of Eve, one of the underlying reason of wanting that type of control is to be able to choose if you want to play in an early or late game village and that's fair especially for players that already played hours.

Currently players that want to choose just /die repeatedly which is both annoying for the one using /die over again and frustrating for the other one who has their baby constantly dying.

You can already choose in what world (server) you want to be, bigserver2's world could be 8'000 years old while the one on server1 could have just had a fresh start and Eve's are settling in.

If you join at the right time during the starting period you might even have a chance to be an Eve on top of playing in an early game world.

#17 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-11-07 02:06:52

Spoonwood wrote:
Dodge wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:

You can close your eyes like Pepe, Dodge.  But, that suggests that you would rather not see how things work and develop a consistent perspective from there.  Those who close their eyes end up blind to truth in plenty of other cases.

Here's a video that could be interesting to you:

Aspergers Syndrome: The Challenge of Reading Facial Expressions

Oh look, another non-psychologist using something to refer to 'aspergers' or 'autism' *on the basis of mere text* so that they can avoid having to think about what got said, or respond with a counterargument.  It isn't like using non-professional diagnosis has ever gotten used to distract from thinking about something before.  Why would people get better and start to consider what they said or treat their ideas with thought?  Why would people like Dodge ever stop trying to manipulate others?

Well if you cant recognize the facial expression of an emote that by itself is exagerated for emphasis it tells me that this video might be very relevant to you, did you watch it?

"Why would people get better and start to consider what they said or treat their ideas with thought?" Very ironic

#18 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-11-06 20:03:24

Spoonwood wrote:

You can close your eyes like Pepe, Dodge.  But, that suggests that you would rather not see how things work and develop a consistent perspective from there.  Those who close their eyes end up blind to truth in plenty of other cases.

Here's a video that could be interesting to you:

Aspergers Syndrome: The Challenge of Reading Facial Expressions

#19 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-11-06 18:40:09

Spoonwood wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:

Jason is the author of the OHOL universe.

No, he is not.  He's the author of the code.  The code is the author of the OHOL universe.  The code doesn't work how he thinks it does also.


#20 Re: Main Forum » On "Nintendo Hard" Garbage » 2020-11-04 05:05:12

Spoonwood wrote:

I was well aware that one's in game life can be shorter than one hour before this.  However, if the game isn't getting designed so that the average new, first time player can experience one hour one life when trying to do so, then the game is NOT set up for them to experience one hour one life.


Jason added a notification when your baby is a new player, it's up to you to take care of them, more experienced players failling to take care of new players is not a flaw in the design of the game, it's an individual failure.

So the game is indeed designed so that first time players can experience "one hour one life".

Jokes aside 99.999% of players understand that it's just the title of the game and dont expect to be good when they just started.

Maybe there should be a disclaimer for the extremly dense 0.001% that cant understand this, or maybe they should figure their own shit out.

#21 Re: Main Forum » I really miss the old game, where you were born as Eve/had nothing » 2020-11-03 21:55:53

Yeah the game is pretty bad right now and it only seems to get worse, Twisted's idea of band map makes the problem even more excacerbated.

Now if you want to ruin an Eve village by bringing them new technologies you pretty much know where they are on the band or can figre it out pretty easily.

It's a learning process, gotta go trough a lot of shit to figure out what actually works.

#22 Re: Main Forum » On "Nintendo Hard" Garbage » 2020-11-03 21:48:38

You're trolling or retarded still not sure sometimes, either way good luck with that.

#23 Re: Main Forum » On "Nintendo Hard" Garbage » 2020-11-03 21:14:30

I have an iron pan so i'm very familiar to how rust is made, are you mentally challenged in some way?

It's actually physically painful to see you try so hard to find a way to always be right even though you're most of the time completely missing the point and absolutly out of touch, only managing to make a fool of yourself in the process.

If Jason is a clown you're the whole circus.

#24 Re: Main Forum » On "Nintendo Hard" Garbage » 2020-11-03 16:18:46

Another dense post by Spoonwood who doesn't understand the basic things in life, a complete lack of common sense who takes everything literally and has absolutly no self awareness.

Oh Spoonwood you're like a small child that has to be explained everything, like a helpless baby continuously crying.

No the game Rust doesn't revolve around watching iron turning into a different element in the contact of moisture.

Spoonwood wrote:
Dodge wrote:

"because it's like saying that whites belong or can master being at the center of the world, while others can't."

I truly pity people that see racism everywhere, a very sad way to live.

I'm very sure that the scope of this game is extremely far from "everywhere".  If you thought you were pitying me Dodge, you are simply wrong in thinking that you were pitying me Dodge.  And I don't think pity was the emotion that you felt when writing the above also.

It most certainly is, albeit not the only one.

#25 Re: Main Forum » Can This Game Evolve Beyond White Supremacy? » 2020-11-03 06:07:25

"because it's like saying that whites belong or can master being at the center of the world, while others can't."

I truly pity people that see racism everywhere, a very sad way to live.

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