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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 2020-03-24 08:39:45

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,452

Oceans, continents and real interactions between civilizations

So the rift was a shitshow, many problems with it mainly that you would spawn over and over again at the same places, Eves would start in already build towns and you couldn't go past the rift (in theory) so the map was not infinite anymore.

But it also had good points, ressources where actually valuable and there was a real sense that what you had was worth enough to protect it, sure there was a lot of unnecessary war/killing but at least it wasn't boring.

How things are currently with the family specialization and home update there is the potential for it to be even more interesting since it wouldn't only be about killing and owning more ressources but about owning more ressources and also exchanging with the different families.

So why isn't it happenning?

The issue is in "owning ressources", right now villages just give/steal each other, there isn't any interesting interactions happening it's just taking or bringing stuff to other villages, you dont have to negotiate or talk to anyone and they wont stop you at the gate of a town since there is no point of having a gate at all, but why?

Why are villages not protecting their ressources and stopping traders at gates to talk?

Because ressources are infinite, you never get the sense that what you have is valuable so there's no point in protecting what you have or seriously talking to someone to exchange stuff.

So how could there be a good mix between not being in a box but also not having everything infinite?

There could be an infinite world on the grand scale but on the smaller scale some limit of what you can have.

With oceans and continents the world would still be infinite but what you have immediate access to would be limited and eventually become valuable.

ocean.jpg

There could be boats to travel but not necessarly bring huge ammounts of ressources.

On a technical level the ocean would be a rift painted blue (and some ocean animation maybe) and larger than 1 tile, so not technically out of reach like it would be if it was some specially coded biome with restricted access to not being able to walk on it etc.

TLDR: Oceans and continents = limited ressources = valuable ressources over time = more interesting interactions between civilizations.

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#2 2020-03-24 09:36:26

Gogo
Banned
Registered: 2019-10-11
Posts: 589

Re: Oceans, continents and real interactions between civilizations

That's interesting. How about giving ocean biome for whites, making them useful? If you wanna go to another island, you need to co-op with them, they already know all languages. Ideally they will have town next to ocean.

Last edited by Gogo (2020-03-24 09:36:48)

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#3 2020-03-24 09:42:54

fug
Moderator
Registered: 2019-08-21
Posts: 1,048

Re: Oceans, continents and real interactions between civilizations

Thread wasn't good in the other forums, isn't good here either.


Worlds oldest SID baby.

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#4 2020-03-24 10:27:04

Whatever
Member
Registered: 2019-02-23
Posts: 491

Re: Oceans, continents and real interactions between civilizations

Jason wasted months working on the rift, race restrictions and tool slots, none of them made the game better.
The interactions you have with other people are now not more interesting than they were before, i would argue they are even less interesting.
If he adds this idea he will also work months on it and it will not make the game any better.

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#5 2020-03-24 10:42:49

JackTreehorn
Member
Registered: 2018-04-18
Posts: 174

Re: Oceans, continents and real interactions between civilizations

I like this idea. I've been missing what the Rift added to the game.
I had a couple of ideas which could improve this second Rift.

1. If someone dies at sea their boat travels to the closest shore and gets washed up.
2. Sinking islands. After a week the island sinks and gets reset. Solving the problem of needing an automatic rift reset and cities lasting too long.

I really like the idea of white people being beach experts although not all shorelines need to be beaches.
Perhaps oceans don't need to be 1-2k yet.


Eve Audette

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#6 2020-03-24 13:36:09

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,293

Re: Oceans, continents and real interactions between civilizations

We don't have a good duel or group fight system.
Defending resources is not an interesting feature since defenders always need to be ready, attackers already give up their life and got the surprise element, so catch the defenders off balance and force them into a fight, it's not fun.
I think that we would need special arenas to fight where the invitations guarantee that both parties agree, or they are forced into fights but can choose a representative. As for team fights, both parties would teleport to a location and some sort of siege battle, capture the flag, fort fight style combat.

After watching "No game no life", I really liked their politics based on games and challenges
Basically you would wager anything against other clans and the winner takes all.
It could be automatic as well, that you would be forced into a fight time to time so one person would train to fight in the arena. The bigger team fights would require minimum population below and above a certain age, let's say between 14 and 40. The families could fight in different battles like 1v1, 4v4, 10v10, with more resources to wager and more to lose or win. I dunno, it could be deadly or just go unconscious after the battle.
Or would be random or agreed upon both families. Deadly fights would be rarer.

As for oceans: if they would be just big blue blocking tiles that would be fine, the engine won't support boats that contain people or multiple people. I guess single person boats could be cheesed but it would be fine to just travel between ports. This would be like unlockable territories.
I think it should be cost-based travel instead of time-based. More like the airplanes that you enter then exit on the other side. It could be via boats or ships, people enter a queue and the screen loads in a new place. I don't think it would be fun to go around in a boat for thousands of tiles also hard to make it.

It doesn't matter where you are at the map until your economy is stable. Also Eve camps could and should die out so I think everyone would start on a small island that is not on the real map, you would have limited time to produce x amount of resources and send some people on the journey, old people would stay behind and the people sent would start over on the next islands.
The size of starter island could be around 60x60 so you see the limits, you would need to assemble some items like tools and pies and other stuff and send out your team to the next island. These would be a more generic island with average spawn rates.
Tides could affect some parts of the island, opening up parts of the island for a time limit, you could get resources from there if you get back in time, if not you would be stuck there or dumped back empty-handed.

Tier 2 islands would be on the map and maybe would be populated in order of arrival so team 1 would go on island 1 and team 2 would go next to it and so on.
I would imagine that these islands would be on the edge, as you go inside, more big islands, and a huge one on middle.

These tier 2 islands would have a volcano on them so you would have a time limit to go forward or it would be destroyed.  The spawn mechanics would be more varied, with bigger jackpots like tons of trees or tons of bear caves.

Tier 3 could be way bigger, more variety, a permanent settlement location. Maybe even 2 ports for 2 families on 2 sides. So the families could live together or fight for control.

Tier 4 would be a huge island with a monument on the middle which would take tons of resources and it could end the world and reset everything.

Due to engine limitations, it would be the simplest that the water is just 30-40 wide so you can't see it trough even with a zoom mod.
Due to many failed Eves would be good that all these separate maps need to show their skill before they are placed on the map, a minimap would be fine, families moved to closeby islands around the circle. And some sort of end goal and procedural unlocking for better territories.


Other than that there could be island speciality and challenges, like volcanos, marinas, beeches, several unique resources you gotta trade trough market to advance forward, setting up you industry and processing of your island special item like marble or copper or similar (non-food item for the sole sake of producing currency via work).

To advance to other islands you would have to have full clothing for each person, age requirement (still fertile) and special food requirements, tools etc. to unlock the next island for a few people.

Possibly would need to drop race restrictions.


https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7986 livestock pens 4.0
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4411 maxi guide

Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.

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#7 2020-03-24 14:00:30

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,977

Re: Oceans, continents and real interactions between civilizations

Dodge wrote:

How things are currently with the family specialization and home update there is the potential for it to be even more interesting since it wouldn't only be about killing and owning more ressources but about owning more ressources and also exchanging with the different families.

No, this doesn't sound interesting.  It sounds confusing, because of the language barrier.

Dodge wrote:

The issue is in "owning ressources", right now villages just give/steal each other, there isn't any interesting interactions happening it's just taking or bringing stuff to other villages, you dont have to negotiate or talk to anyone and they wont stop you at the gate of a town since there is no point of having a gate at all, but why?

Why are villages not protecting their ressources and stopping traders at gates to talk?

Because the players aren't idiotic, selfish people who will shoot their own selves in the food.  They realize that Together Everyone Achieves More has meaning, and thus gifting things to each other is more pleasant than hording.

Dodge wrote:

So how could there be a good mix between not being in a box but also not having everything infinite?

*You* could limit yourself in how much you want to have in a game.  Like *you* choose you can only use a certain number of resources around you in a certain life, like you can only eat 4 pies or whatever.  Thus limitation just requires that *you* take responsibility for managing what you have.  This is why ideas like tool slots and race/hair restrictions never made any sense, since if paying players had wanted them *they* could have taken it upon themselves to only use so many tools in a life.

Dodge wrote:

TLDR: Oceans and continents = limited ressources = valuable ressources over time = more interesting interactions between civilizations.

People don't play this game for 'interesting interactions' between civilizations in general.  Remember, most players never leave town. 

And on top of that the game is not designed for maximally interesting interesting interactions between people.  It's more interesting to talk to someone in complete sentences where one can say many words instead of having a limited number of characters.  After all Dodge, you wrote a post instead of writing the above all out in game.

So, for anyone who thinks this game should be about maximally interesting interactions between people, that person just doesn't understand the limitations it has.  The game is designed to have very weak and very boring interactions between people in certain cases, as babies interacting with people is rather weak and rather boring, always has been, and likely always will be rather weak and rather boring.

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#8 2020-03-24 14:07:13

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,452

Re: Oceans, continents and real interactions between civilizations

Gogo wrote:

That's interesting. How about giving ocean biome for whites, making them useful? If you wanna go to another island, you need to co-op with them, they already know all languages. Ideally they will have town next to ocean.

Yes that's a good idea whites could be the only one that know how to navigate the oceans or make boats, they could meet other civilizations on the other continents and since they know language communication would be facilitated.

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#9 2020-03-24 14:43:03

voy178
Member
Registered: 2018-08-18
Posts: 290

Re: Oceans, continents and real interactions between civilizations

Dodge wrote:
Gogo wrote:

That's interesting. How about giving ocean biome for whites, making them useful? If you wanna go to another island, you need to co-op with them, they already know all languages. Ideally they will have town next to ocean.

Yes that's a good idea whites could be the only one that know how to navigate the oceans or make boats, they could meet other civilizations on the other continents and since they know language communication would be facilitated.

OMG, you two. That's just the history of colonialism. Could we not?

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