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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 2020-03-02 19:38:04

Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 4,121

Fatherhood Won't Happen

The website got changed so that it refers to a grandmother instead of a grandfather, and refers to a grandmother and mother instead of parents.  Had it been the case that the issue remained open on GitHub, while the website also getting changed, it would seem reasonable to believe that fathers might happen.

Jason talked about engineering constraints to fatherhood before, but some of you might remember a day where for a few hours all players were Eves spawning from a central spot, thus suggesting to me that no technical constraints on fatherhood exist.

There have existed some proposals that fatherhood increase the fertility probability, but I think that would mean it would work similar to temperature and yum, bumping people in the fertility queue.  That would imply that we couldn't tell whether the father had a causative role in the child getting born to the mother, since attribution of fatherhood would strike me as misleading.

Mating mechanics have gotten rejected, because of Jason's insistence that almost everyone get born as a baby, even though those hours of everyone as an Eve happened.  Mating mechanics when I tried to think about them seemed like they might slow down the tech pace, make it so that players have to play more socially to have to continue a lineage thus increasing the interpersonal difficulty and requiring responsible players to play more socially (given that mating would require the consent of both parties), make interesting stories more easy to happen, and I will guess more.  They would also probably require re-thinking spawning locations, and the persistent server has gotten promised to have the first player as an Eve and the second player as a baby.  Next time you play you'll likely get reincarnated as a baby, starting from a similar old helpless starting point, even though it's some sort of re-incarnation.

Anyways, if someone brings up fatherhood again, you might want to refer them to this thread or Jason's comment here: … 354#p88354 or both, such seems unlikely to happen.

Oh, and you're still getting compared to some hypothetical frog that is too unaware to realize that they'll soon die if they don't act differently.

"Boiling the frog: eatBonus now starts at 3 (was 4) for Eve and decays to 2 (was 3) with a half life of 4 generations." … ccf2a128c7


#2 2020-03-02 20:07:18

Registered: 2019-12-17
Posts: 122

Re: Fatherhood Won't Happen

Or maybe he just changed it to shut you up...  silly him for thinking it might work.


#3 2020-03-02 20:19:54

Registered: 2019-07-02
Posts: 168

Re: Fatherhood Won't Happen

I actually like the roleplay aspect of fatherhood. I have had fathers and I have been a father in many lives. I get a dad usually when a mother is afk or abandons me and a father adopts me. Becoming a dad is similar, either I adopt someone because again their mother was afk or abandoned them. OR I become a father why wooing the mother. If I want to play a life as a dad then I start young, usually me as a kid and I flirt with someone my age. Call her pretty, blush and give her a flower. If she rejects it then I move on and find someone else, but if she accept it then that is usually the start of a courtship where we might marry and she brings all her kids to me as the Dad.

I think Jason's decision to just update the text makes the most sense when evaluating risk vs reward from a developer's point of view. I'm ok with it.


#4 2020-03-03 01:23:54

Registered: 2018-06-17
Posts: 158

Re: Fatherhood Won't Happen

I can't believe that Jason is pandering to your incessant whining.  Like a baby that wants a pacifier and cries about it, that's the characteristics I can attribute to you: a whiney little baby without it's pacifier.  Jason please tell me you are better than this obvious troll being obvious.

I'm fish, deal with it or don't, idgaf


#5 2020-03-03 05:02:25

Registered: 2019-05-09
Posts: 257

Re: Fatherhood Won't Happen

Fatherhood would make the game way better in my opinion.

Men would become suitors and begin to accumulate private wealth in order to convince females to choose them.

"Don't pick John, John doesn't have any spare clothes. I have enough clothes to clothe 4 kids. You should pick me!"

Without male reproduction males are essentially worker ants/bees providing for the queens of the colony/hive.

They are content to not hoard and make due with the bare minimum, because why hoard private property if there is no benefit?

If they were competing with other males they may hoard clothes, luxury goods or other items to try to get a wife/mate.

As much as I would absolutely love for male reproduction/male competition to be in the game, Jason will not make this change because it would break the family tree system in place right now.

To me that would be a small sacrifice compared to the relative gain in realism/immersion but Jason does not agree and I can respect that.

Due to OHOL being open source, once OHOL is finished being developed by Jason I am hopeful that in the future many different offshoots of OHOL like 2HOL and community-crucible will come along and make these sort of changes.

People will vote with their feet about what mechanics/changes are good/bad, and thus I am hopeful through artificial selection we will end up with an amazing game that (hopefully) has fatherhood.


#6 2020-03-06 01:36:11

Registered: 2017-02-13
Posts: 4,746

Re: Fatherhood Won't Happen

The text on the website was a quote from an email that I wrote to a designer friend of mine years ago, explaining the philosophical premise of the game to him.  In that quote, I did talk about grandfathers, not because I planned to add them to the game, but because men usually chop wood, and I was talking about inheriting an axe, so it made thematic sense in the context of the explanation.

It was such a good summary that I ended up using it on the homepage for the game, and I never changed it to reflect what actually goes on in the game.

Until now.

I expected people to understand it as an abstract vignette portraying the underlying philosophy of the game.  Similar to the trailer, which shows future possibilities and says "Who knows where we'll end up?"


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