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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#26 2019-08-14 03:17:10

BladeWoods
Member
Registered: 2018-08-11
Posts: 476

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Everyone is free to use the Zoom mod, non-griefers included.

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#27 2019-08-14 05:52:52

ollj
Member
Registered: 2019-06-15
Posts: 626

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

this dumb shit has gone far enough. just ban water!

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#28 2019-08-14 06:07:11

pedrito confesiones
Member
Registered: 2019-02-16
Posts: 65

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

What are you even saying!!!.
GOD BLESS WHATEVER AND HIS HOLY MOD.you really are a blessed player.
marry my sim and let me have the custody of your virtual kids.


CoNtEnT


Bottom text

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#29 2019-08-14 06:27:13

DiscardedSlinky
DubiousSlinker
From: Discord
Registered: 2019-05-06
Posts: 669

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Hetuw is the best thing to happen to the game in my opinion. Like forget the zoom out, I LOVE it for the names and color organization, seeing other people's ages, the constant emote looping, and being able to use WASD controls is nice sometimes.

None of those are gameplay breaking, and they add so much.

I personally would have never gotten to this point in the game if there was no zoom out mod. I played the other day without it and it was just frustrating. It's not realistic to see only 3 tiles in front of you.

Yes the game should 100% be zoomed out more by default but it's not. People fixed that.


I'm Slinky.

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#30 2019-08-14 09:01:20

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 696

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

I said it long ago, I wouldn´t play if not for Awbz/Hetuw mods. The game is just uninteresting when you die because you didn´t see that wolf/bear while running through the wasteland or didn´t turn left but right to catch that berry tree. Yes every griefer uses zoom mod. Many productive and cooperative players do too.


- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

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#31 2019-08-14 13:40:22

breezeknight
Member
Registered: 2018-04-02
Posts: 813

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

sigmen4020 wrote:
breezeknight wrote:

@Dodge

i fully agree with your critique

but

you don't stand the slightest chance with this crippled echo chamber "community"
& rest assured, holy Jason Rohrer won't move a finger to make the game fair,
cause
freedom for holy Jason Rohrer ? yes
freedom for griefers ? yes
freedom for self righteous avengers ? yes
freedom for peaceful players ? nope

- - -

Are you implying that all zoom mod users aren’t peaceful players? That’s just rich.

i am saying what OP said

every player NOT USING zoom mods is only a peaceful player
BECAUSE
it's hard to grief without

but
this discussion is going on now for over a year & both of the suggested solutions were EVERY SINGLE TIME shot down

so

this discussion is MUTE & FUTILE

- - -

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#32 2019-08-14 13:59:05

CatX
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2019-02-11
Posts: 439

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

It would be nice with some new features in the base game to make life easier. Rather than shutting down the mod.

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#33 2019-08-14 15:07:12

Starknight_One
Member
Registered: 2018-10-15
Posts: 345

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

breezeknight wrote:

this discussion is MUTE & FUTILE

- - -

... I was going to grammar-nazi all over this (the phrase this is based on is 'the point is moot', which is often misphrased as 'mute'), when I realized it was factually correct, unless you are blind and using text-to-speech. Carry on. smile

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#34 2019-08-14 15:18:13

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,419

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Starknight_One wrote:
breezeknight wrote:

this discussion is MUTE & FUTILE

- - -

... I was going to grammar-nazi all over this (the phrase this is based on is 'the point is moot', which is often misphrased as 'mute'), when I realized it was factually correct, unless you are blind and using text-to-speech. Carry on. smile

This discusdion is MUTE & FOOTILE.


https://docs.rs/footile/0.3.1/footile/

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#35 2019-08-15 13:41:47

arkajalka
Member
From: Eesti
Registered: 2018-03-23
Posts: 446

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Zoom mod is for noobs

True heros run with vanilla client no backbag sheep skin only.

BAAAAA


I am Sheep, the lord of kraut, maker of the roads, professional constructor, master smith, bonsai enthusiast, arctic fisher, dog whisperer, naked  nomad and an ORGANIZER. Nerf sharp stone it's op.

"BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" -Jaleiah Gilberts
"All your bases are belong to us"-xXPu55yS14y3rXx-

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#36 2019-08-15 14:16:37

Karrots
Member
Registered: 2019-03-09
Posts: 136

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

It's wrong as a principle to have mods that give unfair advantages to some players. Jason shouldn't allow anything more than cosmetic mods, period. Not everyone has the zoom mod. Either make it part of the game or stop the mod from being used.

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#37 2019-08-15 15:02:10

MistressZues
Member
Registered: 2018-04-24
Posts: 269

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Mods are a natural part of any game. The mod is free and for anyone who wants it, the ones who want to ban the mod because a few bad people who use it for the wrong reason are the same people who wish to ban a breed of dog because the bad owners made them aggressive. They are the ones who wish to ban guns because some people use them for crime. Criminals are a natural part of life, criminals are the real life grievers. The justice system was put in place for these people. The game won't get better unless we implement a system to deal with the grievers more efficiently because "Donkey town" isn't cutting it.

               A one year old should be able to hit / curse Venelope Vonsweets. An age limit should not cause the inability to punish wrong doers. To prevent grievers from using this to curse innocent people. Maybe when anymore from your family is cursed you get a pop-up like the arc notifications. " Venelope Vonsweets your great aunt has been cursed" if you agree you can also say / curse Venelope Vonsweets however if you disagree you can hit / Veto or /No and it will go to vote. That's just one possibility of a justice system in game. You either need a majority of yes votes in a smaller family if you have a veto, or at least six people (or something this number can be tested an tried) if you have a big family with one veto. If no one vetos all curses count towards this person. Again I state that the curse system should be a /command. A infant stabbed by his mother in the woods in secret should be able to curse its mother with its dying breath. A seven year old who watched his big brother slaughter all the sheep and lead a bear to town should be able to curse him. Since we arn't really seven and one year olds playing we know right from wrong and should be able to use our token. Another opinion I wish would be heard is that the tokens we have should be more. At least one each life. Every town has at least one griever we should have at least one token per family.

          I also made a post similar to this where I wished for a better justice system in game like real cops and executioners etc.

Last edited by MistressZues (2019-08-15 15:02:46)


Check this out upvote if you agree!!! https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … heck_this/

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#38 2019-08-15 15:31:14

CatX
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2019-02-11
Posts: 439

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

MistressZues wrote:

They are the ones who wish to ban guns because some people use them for crime.

Actually, I don't think anyone wants to "ban guns" in real life, if you're thinking about Americans who refer to other countries and their more restrictive gun laws. You can still be a gun owner in, let's say, Norway. I know people here who hunt. My uncle in law has won several shooting contests. So, uh no.

Now back to discussing the game smile

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#39 2019-08-15 15:40:25

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,419

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

While changing the ability to curse into a command that avoids the age limit and giving one curse token per life sound like they would be good changes on paper ... that would be a bad combination, because it could be easily abused by griefers.   

If you can curse as soon as you are born and you are granted a new token every time you are born, you have as many curse tokens as you have life tokens.  You can just keep dying to get a new token and curse the same person twelve times in a row.   Eventually, you will run out of life tokens, but you get more pretty fast, so no big deal.   

I do think that cursing should be a command and it should be available at any age, so children can react to griefing when they see it.   But one curse per hour is adequate.   You need to pick wisely and weigh the situation carefully before passing judgement.   Don't waste that token on a misunderstanding.  Save it for a real griefer.

If you are encountering griefers more thn once per hour, I'd say that is a sign that the griefer problem is getting out of control.    We need stronger curses, not more curses.  So people who accumulate a lot of curses stay away longer and let us get back to playing the game.

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#40 2019-08-15 16:34:24

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 4,419

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Actually, here's an interesting idea.   With a little tweaking, it might work to link together curse tokens and life tokens.   

What if using a curse token COSTS one life token, but there is no restriction on how many curses that you use in a single life (other than running out of life tokens)?

Change the replenishment rate for life tokens back to one token per hour.   Cap life tokens at 10 tokens max.  Every time you curse someone, your life tokens drop by one token.   Send someone to donkey town if they accumulate more than 12 tokens in 24 hours and do not allow cursing someone after they have been dead for longer than thirty minutes (so you can't just curse the same person all day long).    One person can't send you to donkey town by stacking curses, but if they felt strongly, they could spend all their life tokens to get you really close.  Then you could get sent there more easily by the next person or group of people.

If lifetime curse score is high, the max tokens required to send someone to donkey town is lowered, so serial griefers that have accumulated many curses over many lives will be more vulnerable to curse-stacking.   Ideally, lifetime curse score should be divided by hours played.    Then people who play many good lives, but occasionally get cursed will not be punished the same as someone who plays rarely but always gets cursed for bad behavior.    They might have the same total lifetime curse score, but the rate of accumulation is clearly different.   In this way, the curse system would adapt to punish high-frequency offenders more severely than someone who rarely bothers others.   

I've seen entire villages wiped out by a single knife-wielding griefer and no one was able to curse them due to lack of time and the text limit.   And I've been in villages that were picked off, one by one, by a murderer who lured his victims away from the village to kill them discretely.   This would raise the stakes for griefers, because even a single victim could have a strong impact on their ability to play with other people in future lives.   But using your curse token is not a risk-free choice.  It costs an entire life every time you spend a curse token.   Spending multiple tokens on one griefer means you are trading hours of play to hopefully remove them from your future lives.   Personally, I think it would be a fair trade.   If you abuse the curse system, you will run out of tokens and can't join the game until they refill.   

It also means that you would want to avoid wasting life tokens - your lives are more precious.  I rarely play OHOL for more than an hour or two each day.   And I don't die that often.  I've never been in danger of running out of life tokens.   If those extra tokens had a purpose, they would be valuable to me.

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#41 2019-08-16 02:39:13

BladeWoods
Member
Registered: 2018-08-11
Posts: 476

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

I wouldn't be playing this game if zoom mod was somehow banned, zoom makes the game much better, but I do miss the danger of the wild that existed when I first got the game and didn't have zoom. Had to be very careful to not walk into any lethal animals, even walking horizontally felt safer than walking vertically. So I wish zoom became default and lethal animals were somehow made more dangerous to accommodate.

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#42 2019-08-16 07:12:33

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,452

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Karrots wrote:

It's wrong as a principle to have mods that give unfair advantages to some players. Jason shouldn't allow anything more than cosmetic mods, period. Not everyone has the zoom mod. Either make it part of the game or stop the mod from being used.


Exactly cosmetic mods are great, if you want different hats or bigger eyes all good for you, but something that gives a clear advantage especially in PVP shouldn't be allowed.

And since it will never be part of the base game since it looks ugly and the "god's point of view" changes the feel/immersion of the game.

But there should be a survey as to why people use the zoom mod and adress these underlying issues.

For example if someone uses it because "too much clutter" easy fix, make more storage, add a trashcan and make cluttering food items edible.

If it's because "you get killed by wildlife because you dont see them on screen" make animals have less bigger steps but move faster so they cant ninja kill you from tiles away but still remain challenging in a more fair way.

Etc.

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#43 2019-08-16 08:13:38

CatX
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2019-02-11
Posts: 439

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

If I understand correctly, the thing about mods is that they are installed on the client side, and they use information sent by the server and structure that information in a different way than the base game. The server doesn't know you're using a mod. So I'm not sure there's anything Jason could do about them, even if he wanted to. If he wanted to stop the zoom out mod, for example, he could in theory send less information to the client side, so that the mod didn't have the information needed to display a bigger map. However, this would cause more lag for users of the base game, since the information about where you're going would have to be sent in the moment you move, and not before, just to prevent mods. At least that's my understanding of the issue.

In other words, attempting to stop the mods would make the base game worse.

I believe the way to go is not to stop the mods, but rather to make improvements to the base game.

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#44 2019-08-16 08:29:30

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,452

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

CatX wrote:

If I understand correctly, the thing about mods is that they are installed on the client side, and they use information sent by the server and structure that information in a different way than the base game. The server doesn't know you're using a mod. So I'm not sure there's anything Jason could do about them, even if he wanted to. If he wanted to stop the zoom out mod, for example, he could in theory send less information to the client side, so that the mod didn't have the information needed to display a bigger map. However, this would cause more lag for users of the base game, since the information about where you're going would have to be sent in the moment you move, and not before, just to prevent mods. At least that's my understanding of the issue.

In other words, attempting to stop the mods would make the base game worse.

I believe the way to go is not to stop the mods, but rather to make improvements to the base game.

No he could make it so only the base client and authorized ones (that only use cosmetics for example) can login.

He would have to authorize personnally the different modded clients or he could make it only playable with the default client but he's against that.

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#45 2019-08-16 09:12:23

CatX
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2019-02-11
Posts: 439

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Dodge wrote:

No he could make it so only the base client and authorized ones (that only use cosmetics for example) can login.

He would have to authorize personnally the different modded clients or he could make it only playable with the default client but he's against that.

Well, if it's possible then it seems to me that Jason is not aware of how to do it, rather than that he's unwilling to do this. At least it seems so from this post:

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 235#p65235

jasonrohrer wrote:

kubassa, I'm almost 100% certain that preventing such mods would be impossible, even if I expended great effort in trying to stop it.  This is a fact of computer science, dating all the way back to Turing.

I lack the technical knowledge to know the answer myself, but at least that seems to be Jason's understanding.

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#46 2019-08-16 09:22:28

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,452

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

CatX wrote:
Dodge wrote:

No he could make it so only the base client and authorized ones (that only use cosmetics for example) can login.

He would have to authorize personnally the different modded clients or he could make it only playable with the default client but he's against that.

Well, if it's possible then it seems to me that Jason is not aware of how to do it, rather than that he's unwilling to do this. At least it seems so from this post:

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 235#p65235

jasonrohrer wrote:

kubassa, I'm almost 100% certain that preventing such mods would be impossible, even if I expended great effort in trying to stop it.  This is a fact of computer science, dating all the way back to Turing.

I lack the technical knowledge to know the answer myself, but at least that seems to be Jason's understanding.

It's pretty easy to only allow the default client, most games do that, you cant lauch a modded client for league of legends or fortnite for example.

But he's against that and want's to allow mods, he's talking about preventing certain specific actions that mods do like zooming out for example.

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#47 2019-08-16 10:31:58

coriander
Member
Registered: 2018-04-01
Posts: 41

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

Didn't care so much about mods back when the game was truly just a farming and building simulator. But as of late the game has taken a more competitive approach (war, limited resources, etc), and I really do think Jason should either incorporate the zoom mod into the game or outright ban mods.

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#48 2019-08-16 11:07:32

sigmen4020
Member
Registered: 2019-01-05
Posts: 849

Re: Every griefer uses the zoom mod

coriander wrote:

Didn't care so much about mods back when the game was truly just a farming and building simulator. But as of late the game has taken a more competitive approach (war, limited resources, etc), and I really do think Jason should either incorporate the zoom mod into the game or outright ban mods.

Well he has implemented something against this. He made it you can only trigger murder when in range of default zoom. I never use to get some advantage in “combat”. I only really zoom all the way out when I’m out gathering resources. The problem with the default client is that the view is super zoomed in, so you can barely see anything around you. I’m sorry, but I don’t see being killed by animals that charged me from off screen is in any way fair. I only zoom back to default zoom when taking pictures and I zoom out once or twice as my default zoom level in towns.

If he would just give us the option to zoom out once or twice I wouldn’t even mind using the default client that much.


For the time being, I think we have enough content.

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