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#1 2018-10-11 19:08:59

Joseph Stalin
Member
From: Москва
Registered: 2018-04-16
Posts: 40

Stop making oven pens!!!

good city, I was helping with tacks, not one job really, mostly trying to make backpacks for everyone.
someone made an oven pen then idiots turned it into actual ovens, wasting an adobe which is already not needed. could have been a plate or bowl but now it cant, then outright wasting them.
I saw this and started dismantling the rest of the oven bases, to replace them with wooden fences, then some bitch (when she was a baby and I was giving my backpack to my mom because my mom wanted it, she stole it from both me and my mom) told me to stop and wouldn't listen to me.
she then started replacing them and I tried to tell her to stop, but she still wouldn't listen. seriously I was just trying to stop the wasting of resources. I eventually took the stone she was using and dismantled them anyway, after doing that I got the wood to start building fences. was in the middle of putting down a fence when she shot me with a bow and arrow. I cursed her and she called me a griefer, I'm guessing she didn't have the curse token ready.

who sounds like the griefer to you guys?
hate these people so much makes me so mad...


That's pronounced Yosef, not Joseph.

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#2 2018-10-11 19:42:55

Tarr
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 353

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

Oven pens are made for a reason. They're the cheapest early game possible pen you can make. If you don't have a cart you can only move one branch at a time vs moving a total of seven adobe with backpack + basket.

Fences make for terrible pens on multiple different levels. If you build east-west pens people will literally walk over and take the center out for whatever they need a long shaft for. They're double the material cost of any other type of pen people make and gathering branches is slow. Branches might be renewable but clay is generally so abundant wasting it on pens is fine.

I mean generally an adobe pen is half clay/half reed stumps so any adobe harvested from stumps was more than likely going to just despawn anyways without someone going out to dig it up. Even if it was all made from clay and not stumps it would be fine clay isn't some super rare resource, just go ride a horse and get more.

Fences just make for bad pens whether you like it or not. If Jason decided to make oven bases decay we would move to half adobe walls, and if that decays people will likely just move to making stones pens like I've already started seeing around towns.

Probably shouldn't tear down someones efficient pen and replace it with an inferior one and expect people to be happy. I really can't blame them for shooting you if you're going to destroy someone else's work.


I'm the Eve that shows up in your town randomly and starts dropping off children.

If you see me in game don't be afraid to say hi Tarr. I'm more than happy to teach you a few things if I'm not busy.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3070 - The history of teleporters and their uses.

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#3 2018-10-11 21:06:10

Jk Howling
Member
From: Washington State
Registered: 2018-06-16
Posts: 193

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

Added note, you whine about how "that adobe is such a waste, you could've used it for plates/etc!" when the fact is, half of it was likely harvested AS adobe from shoveling reed stumps. On another note, as Tarr said, clay is often quite literally so abundant that using them for the rest of the pen isn't going to do much harm. You'l still have a shitload of clay to make into bowls/plates/crocks as you wish.

Another note. What are you gonna do with all the adobe you just removed, exactly? Make plates out of it? You can't. Make adobe walls? Yay, crumbling buildings are so great! Let it despawn? Grats, you jsut wasted even more resources than the original builder!

You complain about wasting resources, then go do it yourself- not only be dismantling an already functioning pen, but squandering even more resources to replace it all- ones that could be used for other things, just as you said that clay could've been.

Look in the mirror sometime and try to understand exactly how hypocritical you're being. "Wah that clay could've been used for something else! I'm going to let all those materials despawn and use every straight shaft in the area replacing it all!"


You'll find me as Eve Wolfe when possible.

My name themes for children include:
Flowers; Wildlife; Greek/Norse gods; Characters from various TV shows/Disney movies.

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#4 2018-10-11 21:41:27

Ifeanyichukwu
Member
Registered: 2018-09-17
Posts: 9

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

I actually tried making a fence pen one life, as an experiment more than anything. I can tell you, it is *such* a hassle. The city I was born in had a lot of maple trees around, and it still took me almost my entire life to build it. And that was for a relatively small pen! (around 4x4, I believe?) While they're not as easily griefed as before (you now need to hit an east-west or a north-south with a mallet and a shovel in quick succession remove the fence, and I believe it's the same for corners), they're such a waste of a relatively rare resource. If the town I was living in wasn't already endgame when I started experimenting, and instead needed straight shafts for other, more important structures (such as wells), you bet I'd have been shot or stabbed.

Personally, I love the look of fence pens, but right now they're just not the optimal solution. If, say, a fence cost one straight shaft instead of two, they might be somewhat more viable.

(Edit: Nvm, I just realized you can *still* open east-west fences with just a click. Sorry if my experiments caused any accidents, lol.)

Last edited by Ifeanyichukwu (2018-10-12 00:48:00)

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#5 2018-10-11 22:38:47

Turnipseed
Member
From: Texas, Greatest Country Ever
Registered: 2018-04-05
Posts: 550

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

Oven pen is meta blame kaleb


Be kind, generous, and work together my potatoes.

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#6 2018-10-12 01:31:28

golmock
Member
Registered: 2018-07-17
Posts: 22

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

I like fence better, but it is hard to make because there are fewer long shaft in the beginning. If you don't like the oven pen, build a larger fence and when done, destroy the oven base. If you break the oven pen without completing the fence, yes you are griffer...

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#7 2018-10-12 03:17:54

boggers
Member
Registered: 2018-08-17
Posts: 198

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

You are part of the problem, not part of the solution and you deserved to get shot IMO.

The reason people turn oven base pens into oven pens is to make it harder for people like you to remove them, and nobody does it unless there is an excess of adobe nearby.

If you want to replace an adobe pen with fences, build a bigger pen around the existing one and make sure it is 100% complete before you start removing the adobe.

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#8 2018-10-12 06:09:33

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 1,592

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

well now that almost nothing is permanent, you are left to good conscience
adobe ovens can be a waste later on, one is ok in entrance, if decays, bases give 100% back, ovens just half

you dig out stumps for adobe, and not much else you can do with it, second kiln, maybe oven near pen
clay is not that big of an issue if you can make a pen, 75% comes from stumps, i rarely need to use straw or clay
also if i do, those are from leftover reed behind trees which others didn't seen
there is plenty of clay generally and you can get a cart of it somewhere, i think the work someone made early on, worth more than calling it a waste
back before with pits i told, put fences around it and remove pits after, some people did it

now it was a general strategy that remove ovens and put boxes/chests, now i don't feel  too safe about that

my biggest concern is consistency
if you got a grave pen, fix it with graves, if you got adobe, make adobe walls if upgrade

you can build around with fences but the order should be making fences, then when you got like 5-7 for one side then build around it and then remove adobe, one by one its not an upgrade really and looks worse

and lastly, if i carry bones, if i get flat rocks for it, if i get adobe, don't call it a waste, you as a person born after me especially, you might only be alive cause i made tools and produced food, others work isn't  a waste, you need to go a bit further?
i get that making stone shrines is a waste, or making locks out of iron when you got no hoe
adobe its not really used by other things so even if i make adobe out of straw, i wont really call it as a waste as long as my work produced the compost, the wheat and i went to get clay for it

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#9 2018-10-12 08:19:42

PeaGirl
Member
From: Finland, Oulu
Registered: 2018-08-09
Posts: 164

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

I hope some people understand that you should not ever do east-west fences unless you make it a "gate" fence. If you make cross fences instead of east-west fences, griefers can't pick up the shaft and leave sheeps free.

I personally am for fence pen, but that is far more advanced method unless current village has tonload of soil already on use. Adobe oven pens are the last resort choices we have to make before we decide to do grave or fence pens.

Besides, if livestock was to be distracted out from pen, you could just make cow follow you, or get rope for lamb in with bowl of food for it prepared.
I doubt griefers pick the shaft to set livestock free AND later on kills them outside. Sounds like a lot of effort even for me, especially when it comes for villages which are overwhelmed with the idea of getting bow & arrow and/or rope to maintain the pen.

Last edited by PeaGirl (2018-10-12 08:23:20)


If you ever enter Pea (Helkama turns into random name) family, you need the lottery ticket picked up. My baby names given can be absolutely random.
"Are you fueled with peasoup or why you keep running off from temperature tile?"

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#10 2018-10-12 11:41:32

UnnoticedShadow
Member
Registered: 2018-09-08
Posts: 274

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

Personally, I think now would be a good time to stop making oven pens, as the game is on steam, and we don’t wanna confuse the heck out of new players.  Just think of it as the normal way to play, and it’s not that hard to make!

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#11 2018-10-12 12:21:48

arkajalka
Member
From: Eesti
Registered: 2018-03-23
Posts: 37

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

Just go free range sheep till you can build an actual stone haus or fence pen for the fauna, ovens are ugly and waste of good bowl/plate material. There's really no need to rush a hasty oven pen imo.

Last edited by arkajalka (2018-10-12 12:22:44)


I am the lord of kraut, maker of the roads, breeder of the sheep, master smith and bonsai enthusiast. Nerf sharp stone it's op.

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#12 2018-10-12 14:12:59

Tarr
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 353

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

arkajalka wrote:

Just go free range sheep till you can build an actual stone haus or fence pen for the fauna, ovens are ugly and waste of good bowl/plate material. There's really no need to rush a hasty oven pen imo.

Last time I did free range sheep they ended up invading the city from about fifty units units east of the city in 20~ years. Free range isn't exactly viable unless you're willing to risk sheep invasions.

UnnoticedShadow wrote:

Personally, I think now would be a good time to stop making oven pens, as the game is on steam, and we don’t wanna confuse the heck out of new players.  Just think of it as the normal way to play, and it’s not that hard to make!

As others have said you cannot make a decent fence in your lifetime unless you're at an advanced stage in the game where you already have sheep. It's not difficult to make fences its tedious. You either need to have a maple tree farm completed (why do you have shears with no sheep) or a horse cart to quickly collect branches (you have sheep at this point likely in a stone or adobe pen.)

The reason trash pits were bad for new players because you picked up a dead lamb and the game told you it goes inside a trash pit. They obviously had no idea this would fill the pit and release all the sheep it was just counter intuitive.


It's okay for you guys to make your goofy fence pens AROUND the original adobe ones as you're doing everyone a favor by expanding the pen. It's best to try to get all the sides done at once otherwise the pen really does look like an abomination.


I'm the Eve that shows up in your town randomly and starts dropping off children.

If you see me in game don't be afraid to say hi Tarr. I'm more than happy to teach you a few things if I'm not busy.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3070 - The history of teleporters and their uses.

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#13 2018-10-12 15:11:51

happynova
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 130

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

I'm thinking there's just got to be some kind of better option for pens that Jason can give us.  Because, yeah, fence pens are extremely difficult given how easy they are to deliberately or accidentally ruin.  I helped make a very large one once -- after experiences with pens so crowded there wasn't room for lambs to poop, I'm a fan of the extra-large pen -- and it basically took two people working full-time an entire lifetime to make.  One to scour the countryside for maple branches and haul them back on a horse cart, and one to actually erect the fence.   And it probably still wasn't a good idea.

Stone pens are better, maybe, but they have the disadvantages of not being easily expandable, plus an issue I haven't seen anybody bring up, but which kind of bugs me: they can be difficult to see into past the walls.

The adobe base pens do seem to be the best bet at the moment, but they're ugly as sin, and they don't make a whole lot of sense.  At least with the trash pits I could pretend they really were some kind of trench, which is not necessarily the most illogical way of fencing in livestock.

What kind of thing might work better and make more sense?  Fences where you can't easily remove the top on the east-west segments would be an improvement, because using all corner fences also seems ugly and unintuitive.  Maybe we could invent wire fences, although fences that use iron would be an even bigger waste of resources.  How about a low stone wall?

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#14 2018-10-12 15:17:54

UnnoticedShadow
Member
Registered: 2018-09-08
Posts: 274

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

I have made a 2x2 pen, AND gotten my towns first sheep in one lifetime, which people can expand from.  It’s really not that hard, and it helps new players, so it’s worth it.

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#15 2018-10-12 15:22:22

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 1,592

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

sheared sheep stays inside the biome, the one with fur goes pretty far away

actually you can make a pen of 1x2, when the lamb spawns feed/rope it, take to bakery, shear it, kill it
or leave sheared sheep in a small biome, and kill later

the hardened row experiments shown that its not viable alone but if you make it a team project, or make the farms in a certain way, it can be made
even O shape berry fields could hold sheep with just a few walls

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#16 2018-10-12 16:21:16

Tarr
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 353

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

UnnoticedShadow wrote:

I have made a 2x2 pen, AND gotten my towns first sheep in one lifetime, which people can expand from.  It’s really not that hard, and it helps new players, so it’s worth it.

And with the same effort you can make a 5x5+ pen, get the sheep, then move onto another project. The thing is making a 2x2 pen still ends up costing you sixteen branches; eight being the 2x2 fence and another eight being the corner pieces. All those branches early would better serve as tools or even kindling to make tools.

You shouldn't be putting up tiny pens and relying on others to expand it in the future. Most pens made don't get a significant alteration in a towns lifetime. I'd personally rather give my town a nice shell of a pen than give them an almost worthless tiny pen.

happynova wrote:

What kind of thing might work better and make more sense?  Fences where you can't easily remove the top on the east-west segments would be an improvement, because using all corner fences also seems ugly and unintuitive.  Maybe we could invent wire fences, although fences that use iron would be an even bigger waste of resources.  How about a low stone wall?

The thing is even making fences less griefable doesn't make them better. Anything someone wants to purposely destroy will regardless if it takes one or two steps to do. Wooden fences are made from a very needed commodity early game (straight branches) which cannot be gathered efficiently. At the very best you can cart around four fences or seventeen adobe at one time. That's enough adobe to make the shell of a 4x4 pen vs making a useless 1x1.

Efficiency and aesthetics just don't go hand in hand. If something is cheaper than fences it is almost always going to be used and if fences become the only option we have people will likely go to free range sheep until late game where viable fences can be made. It's okay to want nice animal pens people just have to understand vanity has to wait.


I'm the Eve that shows up in your town randomly and starts dropping off children.

If you see me in game don't be afraid to say hi Tarr. I'm more than happy to teach you a few things if I'm not busy.
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3070 - The history of teleporters and their uses.

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#17 2018-10-12 17:42:35

boggers
Member
Registered: 2018-08-17
Posts: 198

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

happynova wrote:

One to scour the countryside for maple branches and haul them back on a horse cart, and one to actually erect the fence.

Take an adze out with you. You can fit four fence kits in a cart instead of four branches. Halves the trips.

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#18 2018-10-12 18:35:17

happynova
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 130

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

boggers wrote:
happynova wrote:

One to scour the countryside for maple branches and haul them back on a horse cart, and one to actually erect the fence.

Take an adze out with you. You can fit four fence kits in a cart instead of four branches. Halves the trips.

I was the person doing the fence-erecting, not the gathering, so I feel very slightly less stupid for not having thought of this. But only slightly. smile

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#19 2018-10-13 02:15:39

Luniatji
Member
Registered: 2018-04-28
Posts: 81

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

Well I was the “bitch” who shot you. First of all, that backpack wasn’t given to your mom, or you didn’t say “mom its yours keep it!” so yes, I took it. It lay on the ground and I was busy with that pen, as kid. Your mom also said I could keep it so that’s nothing to whine about. If she really wanted it I had given it to her without problem, but she found it OK.

Back to the pen. My grandmother started it with half oven bases, half fences. I was running from it to the green area and back with branches to make more fences; while doing that your mom turned the adobe which was lying around into oven bases and two actual ovens. Which was in your eyes “My fault because I was wasting it”. I explained why we got half ovenbase and half fence so that we could start with sheeps. You didn’t listen at all. You decided it was a great idea to get water and demolish all oven bases because your idea was the best and I was dumb. Or, that was what you told me. Because you keep demolishing it and I keep rebuilding it -Because we could have sheeps! Get them!- you were wasting my time. We could have six sheeps in the time we were arguing about that pen.

I then decided to skip the talking. You were definitely not going to listen to me so yes, you where a griefer. Killing work that others do without a reason is griefing. I would kill you earlier if I didn’t get a baby at the moment I made a bow, but I waited till she was old enough. My other cousin has to go so I fed both babies before I killed you. Then I both called to me and explained what I did, telling that if they wanted to kill me I wouldn’t argue, but that I found I did good. I didn’t get killed so I guess they thought the same!

If you where friendlier you had a change I would listen to me. But your attitude was bad, you blamed me for all was wrong with the pen, called me dumb and then wasted my time.. You deserved it to be killed. If you just let me work and get more branches we would change it when we had more wood. Also I didn’t care about that curse and you where not a token worth IMO; I do that with more annoying people.

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#20 2018-10-13 06:20:11

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 1,592

Re: Stop making oven pens!!!

ok so a pen needs 4 corners (it's a square tile based map), a bush just pushes the wall out, that is the corner entrance
you can technically say that corners need 3 walls, sides need one wall and middle ones need no wall
you cant skip out on corners, or sides, but having same length and height is generally better, as there are more middle tiles covered
you can easily imagine, 2x10 and 4x5 are same 20 free tiles inside, yet first uses 28, second uses 22 walls only

the needed walls are (2*x)+(2*y)+4
where x=heighth y=length
or if square 4*side+4
in case of corner entrance and a bush

now its easy to calculate
1x1=2*1+2*1+4=8 walls needed
2x2=12 wall
3x3=16 wall
4x4=20 wall
5x4=22 wall
5x5=24 wall

to extend a pen, you need a direction, for example west, now you can extend by 1 tile, that needs 2 extra walls, extending 2 directions needs 3 walls, and move the rest
obviously you extend 90 degree to the longest wall line, so basically the short side. if it's a 5x4, you get extra 5 tiles by increasing the short side, only 4 by extending the long side for 2 extra walls

short term might seem good idea to make a small pen, but really just you get a worse free tile/wall  ratio, now you can have 1 sheep per walls made in case of 5x5, but only 0.33 sheep in case of 2x2
i still try to save a few walls by building next to trees, ponds and cactus, if i can spare 5-6 walls, then wont need to be exact square

front entrances are mostly vanity but actually look better, work better and less griefable, so might worth extra 3 walls

to save yourself time, find a line of trees, or a few ponds in the same line, a few cacti
now you can say that trees can be cut, but fences can be cut as well

long term there is no problem having 2 pens  2 ovens

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