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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 2020-07-24 16:02:24

Booklat1
Member
Registered: 2018-07-21
Posts: 1,042

good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

jason has been added so much needed content. I'm honestly saddened that the game has been long ruined for me with the family specialization aka "jason made his game a racism simulator" and is ok with that


pipelines, better animal fences, tables. It's a sore wound for me that so many content that had been dismissed before because it was either hard to code or not worth the job (looking at you tables and specific storages) has only been released after I find myself unable to justify playing the game.


I would love to see the day when family specializations are redesigned from the bottom, probably tying it in with tool slots, but this post is really not about it.



How far did we get into trading in this game? are the food balances enough so that long term survival is still challenging/engaging? Does it feel like we need to exchange goods with other people and cities?

And lastly, which do you think changed the game for better the most, these content updates or the new mechanic implementation updates (leadership, war mechanic, ownership, fences, family specialization)?

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#2 2020-07-24 17:15:57

Dodge
Member
Registered: 2018-08-27
Posts: 2,131

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

The best change was probably being able to change the way you face depending on where your mouse is and that's saying something, new content is always nice but i personnally dont find it enough to justify any interest into playing the game.

Trading? still a joke, it could be a thing though if the game was different especially the map and biome placement, ressources, farming system etc but the current way Jason tried to implemented it is just weird and doesn't really bring something interesting.

If a family dies another Eve will spawn to take it's place so you end up not really care since it doesn't matter, the challenge is not there.

Jason is still set into this idea that having an infinite map and things going indefinitly with no actual long term history of civilisations, long term goals, or any closure is more interesting for some reason.

In the real world we have London, Paris, New York, Cities, Countries, etc and in ohol just some random villages dying every day and never remembered.

Jungles next to mountains next to grassland next to desert and all this only a couple of tiles away no wonder there is no need for trade, planes etc.

Also not having a map that is infinite would actually make it possible for oceans in the game since the way the map generates could be different.

If your entertained just by playing with new content then it's a good time to start playing the game again but if you're looking for something more than that then dont bother.

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#3 2020-07-24 17:31:43

Karrots
Member
Registered: 2019-03-09
Posts: 136

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

Note: I fail to answer any of the questions in this idea-dump. My bad.

Instead of being skin based (racism simulator) it should be home biome based. Whichever biome your eve settles in is your biome, and you get some sort of identifiable mark or addition that shows which biome you're from (maybe a badge, or tattoo?)

Then, instead of just linking each biome to late-game necessary tech (oil for engines and such...), which has not accomplished any trading (just made people donate supplies), do the opposite. Revamp early game tech so each biome has a unique style of village (different crops that can be grown, different food, different clothes & buildings, etc.). 

Then it would make more sense that by the time you get to late game, you get better buildings and supplies (iron tools, engines, plows, sprinklers) and less specialized biome-specific buildings. That's how it is in the real world, at least.

After this you can keep having oil in desert and snow, sulfur in desert, etc etc. People probably won't trade, but they will have to interact, which is my goal here. Now you take all these specialized societies, and they start to mix because of passing around resources. I'm thinking of it working with the language learning, as generations go on, more of the language gets passed down, and when the languages are 80% mixed both families unlock the other family's specialized biome items.

This explanation was very poor but the idea is, each family has a biome, each biome has a completely separate specialized early and early mid game, and when you get up the tech tree to the point you need to trade, the cultures mix with each interaction and allow specializations for each biome to be unlocked by others. This way it simulates IRL, keeps Jason's idea of specialized families and trading, but isn't a racism sim.

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#4 2020-07-24 18:06:13

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 3,589

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

That would be a much better implementation of biome-specific items.   Race restrictions were added as a cheap and dirty way to force trade between late-game villages.    I would much rather have seen more thought go into making each type of village look and feel different because of the associated specialty biome and people actually able to LIVE in special biomes - grass huts made from jungle plants, stone buildings in the desert, snow houses in the tundra.  Unique paths, like hunter/fisher instead of farming or nomadic villages with moveable tent shelters.

There are SO MANY cool ideas that could be more fun, provide engaging gameplay options, make each life feel really different from the last one and not be so offensively racist and arbitrary.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-07-24 18:07:39)

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#5 2020-07-25 04:15:57

pein
Member
Registered: 2018-03-31
Posts: 4,252

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

you would need some drastic changes for trade to happen.

kinda weird like road making machine has no upkeeep and goes forever unless touched. also weird that can be desstroyed afterwards.
some things are way too fast, other things are slow and not meaningful.

woodcutting goes too fast and th value is nothing almost. wood could be more important and mroe work with it so you can st up workstations.

no resource sinks, you can produce more but you cant use it up. in an ideal world you would have always excess in some area.
but he only focuses on food producing and heat, food is too much, heat is meaningless.

trad wont happen like this, too much transportation, no secure transactions, thievery is not punished at all, is even incentivized.
player time is evaluated at zero. players seem to be just an observer. food upkeep is presen but nothing you do is too important. we far ahead the tech knowledge limit, we dont need to wait a baker or a smith to advance.
population is more of a down side not something you need.
resources are convertted way too fast.

the premise of one hour really limits longevity and tthe ambiion of making things. but itts not hard to make things, its jus hard to gather.

trade should be automated, sped up a bit. prices shuld be fixed or based on input/outtput, sttrengthen the sandbox style.
automation to be added so things can be made faster.

reesource sinks that convert rsources intto higher tier, expensive stuff.
some sort of secure transactions and secure ownership. like buy a territory, own everything there, pay rent. maybe some sort of in-between-life value , that is not overhelming but would allow to gain something.

i dontt like the social changes, leadership is boring and won solve much. curses never worked, posse is idiotic. skill based activities were killed. meme score forces a boring playstyle.


https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7986 livestock pens 4.0
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4411 maxi guide

Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.

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#6 2020-07-25 15:06:59

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 2,904

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

Best change: the food overflow mechanic.  Not having to think about so many pip values of food to not waste food was a relief.

Biome restrictions and race restrictions both played things un-enjoyable for me.

There is no long term survival.  No family lives long term, nor do any players, and lineages don't reincarnate either.  Since updates kill off lineages, it's clear that the game is not fair, and that the game designer hasn't respected the playerbase from the beginning, or didn't know how to make a system where they could have collective survival (a person appearing on the same family tree via reincarnation doesn't sound that difficult). 

The lack of goals/specific challenges also holds the game back.

The game is completely a sandbox experience, and will remain as such without any clearly defined goals (genetic score is no more than a range of values... it doesn't have a goal AND it's not under player control enough according to what I've read, rendering it meaningless) but the game developer is still delusional enough to think it has been and is something other than a sandbox game.

Trading wouldn't be that interesting.  You would have players ending up feeling that they got cheated, and that might lead to killings for unfair deals even.  Plenty of people have already gotten burned on this game, because of bad interactions with other people from griefers.  They don't need more.  Finding out that someone else is a selfish asshole via a bad trade, or what happens after the trade isn't something that people would end up enjoying.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-07-25 15:07:46)

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#7 2020-07-27 11:58:56

JonySky
Member
From: Catalunya
Registered: 2018-05-13
Posts: 573
Website

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

The new content only works the first days of being implemented, if the new content is excessively complicated to create (as almost everything lately) it is completely forgotten and it is not recreated.

The new "mechanics" are so complex and so poorly implemented that they honestly add nothing interesting to the game.

this game needed radical solutions in the game engine
this game needed to be based more on real civilizations
this game needs a goal

OHOL is simply a makeshift game with no goal
that's why we have too many "magic solutions", or overly complex and confusing mechanics.
Also because of this, we have no order in the implementation of new objects .... (today a paver is implemented and tomorrow a Feast table is implemented)

EXAMPLE: a house with a faulty foundation
You have 4 walls and a roof, but when you try to build a window, that wall falls off and you have to build another wall with supports to avoid the collapse of the house ... once you have built that window and that new wall, you realize a huge crack has come out on the roof

Spoonwood is right when he talks about cities not lasting long and bloodlines disappearing in the short term ... it's a game of civilizations, but these are doomed to disappear with every reboot (not very logical)

Story: Yesterday I tried to make a bottle (again) but I was a jungle character. I ended up traveling east to end up stealing a bottle in a deserted city ...

because I was going to spend 60 minutes trading with another race without being able to understand what they were saying ?, because I was going to spend 60 minutes trying to create an object without being able to finish it (because I can't pick up an element from another biome?), because I was going to travel for 60 minutes for a monotome map? if in the end I could get that bottle by stealing it from a dead city

ahh! If I try to build that bottle from 0, I will waste more necessary resources in my city, or if I try to trade with other towns I will stop having children ... or I will stop creating food in my city and my children and grandchildren will starve and of course my genetics will decrease

in short ... trying to create an object hurts me and the game will punish me

for all this OHOL is reduced to a generator of food and water, only that ... there is nothing else to do

Last edited by JonySky (2020-07-27 15:20:55)

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#8 2020-07-28 15:47:34

Karrots
Member
Registered: 2019-03-09
Posts: 136

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

Yes, yes yes. As we become more modern, we should move away from constantly starving. The world still revolves around food, and that's a problem.

When we get new tech, we should find ways to make food easier and store food easier so that we can move on to other things. People should be able to have time to specialize in certain trades and make the things they want.

Jason considers the moment we aren't thinking "food food food water oil water oil" the game becomes too easy, but I think his vision is skewed. The only challenge shouldn't be starvation, that's ridiculous. Societies evolve because they have to do more than farm carrots forever to survive.

Think about the Great Wall of China! Why do they have a wall? To keep out invaders! That's a challenge, right there.

Why do societies have radios and phones? To communicate long distances, so they can cooperate in overcoming challenges!

We shouldn't be making high tech on a whim. We should want to make it because we NEED it. And while radios aren't necessary to farming carrots, they are necessary to solving other challenges. Jason should try and add more obstacles, not buffing and over complicating the one problem we have into oblivion.

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#9 2020-07-29 02:54:15

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 3,589

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

Yes, a thousand times yes.   Jason keeps trying to make everything in OHOL revolve around food.  Temperature is a food problem.  Disease is a food problem.  Clothing is a food problem.   Buildings are a food problem.  Water is central to the entire tech tree.  Oil and iron are both tied to water production.  And why do we need water?  Because we need food.   

It is the whole focus of the game and any time we manage to "solve" the food problem, instead of giving use new problems to solve and new challenges to overcome. Jason nerfs the game to force us back into an endless starvation cycle.   Raising the bar for new players and making more convoluted unintuitive systems to replace the old ones.

...

Early game should be about solving the food problem.   Starting the first farms.  Making fire and shelter and clothing to protect against the cold.   Finding and gathering basic resources, like clay, iron, and wood.   Mid game should be about stability and infrastructure.   Building houses.  Organizing work areas.   Producing meat and compost and milk.   Reaching a point where the food supply is secure and everyone is clothed and fed.   Late game should move away from basic survival as a primary goal.   You shouldn't be in danger of starvation any longer.  The new goals need to be about something bigger than food.  More important than getting oil to get buckets of water or getting iron to make more hoes.

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#10 2020-07-29 10:16:49

JackTreehorn
Member
Registered: 2018-04-18
Posts: 138

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

I do not like the addition of advanced farm machinery. Food surplus is and will be a problem.
The game revolves around survival, protecting your family getting enough food to survive to the next generation.
Once we advanced past survival needs then we have to try to find a reason to keep playing, according to Maslows hierarchy of needs we should work on psychological and self fulfilment.
Ohol life is boring when the town is advanced and has enough of everything.
We have seen that the only thing that keeps those towns alive is role play. (Casinos, Trading Shops, Radio Djs & Griefers poping up trying to break the town they have grown bored of.)
Rather than advanced up Maslows hierarchy of needs the game should improve the survival elements to pose more of a challenge or perhaps add more things to make (Furniture, Better Houses.)

The two updates I disliked the most were the Plow & sprinkler and the oil update.
Towns now are overflowing with oil and have become very boring.
I do believe there is a place for advanced technologies, just not the type that are severely detrimental to the survival elements which are at the core of this game.
If people wanted to have food surplus, prebuilt advanced towns and a plethora of content they would play 2hol, it seems most people enjoy the survival challenge of Ohol.
These updates have reduced my enjoyment quite a bit, I now only play 1 life a week if that.

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2020-07-29 10:33:42)


Eve Audette

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#11 2020-07-29 14:59:22

JonySky
Member
From: Catalunya
Registered: 2018-05-13
Posts: 573
Website

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

JackTreehorn wrote:

I do not like the addition of advanced farm machinery. Food surplus is and will be a problem.

Don't worry, currently there is no surplus food due to the agricultural machinery, I even dare to tell you that the automatic plow machine has stopped being used in the game.
this new content (plow and self-irrigation machine) does not provide any real advantage in food production, it is only content for boredom

JackTreehorn wrote:

The game revolves around survival, protecting your family getting enough food to survive to the next generation.


The game doesn't revolve around survival (that's only announced in the gameplay trailer, but it's fake)
The game currently revolves around food and water ... just that, there are no more challenges or other goals
Currently you can get to the other end of the map without creating absolutely anything ... where is the survival game ??

JackTreehorn wrote:

Ohol life is boring when the town is advanced and has enough of everything.
We have seen that the only thing that keeps those towns alive is role play. (Casinos, Trading Shops, Radio Djs & Griefers poping up trying to break the town they have grown bored of.)
Rather than advanced up Maslows hierarchy of needs the game should improve the survival elements to pose more of a challenge or perhaps add more things to make (Furniture, Better Houses.)

Before creating new objects that will end up dying in oblivion, we must create new challenges:
I would start with the temperature and the diseases
Currently we have buildings that are useless, ...
Imagine a great snow storm and that all the players must take refuge in the buildings so as not to freeze to death and survive with what they have, without the possibility of cultivating (wooohou! That is survival!)
Possibly there will be many families who will die in a single day ... but currently most of the families do not arrive at the end of the week. (there is not much difference)
diseases and drugs also offer many possibilities for new challenges

Logically all this requires a lot of work at the core of the game, eliminating the racist skills, and eliminating all the "magic" and improvised solutions that have been developing in the last months / years.

JackTreehorn wrote:

The two updates I disliked the most were the Plow & sprinkler and the oil update.
Towns now are overflowing with oil and have become very boring.
I do believe there is a place for advanced technologies, just not the type that are severely detrimental to the survival elements which are at the core of this game.
If people wanted to have food surplus, prebuilt advanced towns and a plethora of content they would play 2hol, it seems most people enjoy the survival challenge of Ohol.
These updates have reduced my enjoyment quite a bit, I now only play 1 life a week if that.

"almost" dead content ... you shouldn't worry too much about it
until there is no real advantage to using an automatic plow ... these items will only be used in advanced cities where boredom is present
2hol is another game ... this forum is for talking about OHOL

get used to, this doesn't seem to change any time soon

Last edited by JonySky (2020-07-29 15:31:37)

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#12 2020-07-29 19:55:55

DestinyCall
Member
Registered: 2018-12-08
Posts: 3,589

Re: good content tbh (does trade already exist?)

One change I would like to see is uncoupling temperature from hunger, so that we have two different variables, rather than just one variable (hunger) and a rate modifier (temperature).

Really, the whole temperature model for the game could use a major remodel.   The current system is unintuitive and weird.   We roast our babies on open fires, run around naked, build houses without roofs, rooms provide hardly any protection if they are the wrong shape or missing a floor tile, and too much insulation will cook you to death with your own body heat.

Ideally, I'd like to see temperature to be its own thing, separate from hunger.   Getting exposed to cold environments should lead to hypothermia.   Exposure to hot conditions will cause heat stroke.   If you don't seek out better temperatures - build a fire or move to a warmer climate, or go inside a heated building if you are cold, for example - then you will keep suffering from hypothermia and eventually die.   It could be a timed threat, similar to Animal Bites, which kills if not "cured" in a set amount of time.    Depending on circumstances, you might be able to fix your temperature by yourself by fleeing from an extreme temp biome or you might need someone else to help you.   For example, if you are too cold, you might need someone else to light the fire to warm you up, because you can't do it yourself.   While suffering from hypothermia/heat stroke, you can't interact with objects, like with yellow fever and wounds.   

I think it would also be quite neat if each race had an ideal temperature biome and biome-specific clothing (hot/cold).   The biomes could be organized along a temperature gradient from very hot (desert) to very cold (tundra).   Gingers would be comfortable in the tundra, badlands, and swamp, but get a little hot when traveling in warmer climates, like prairie, grasslands.  They would overheat faster in jungles and VERY fast in desert.   Likewise, blacks could hang out comfortably in desert, jungle, and prairie, but traveling into grasslands and swamp would be less comfortable.   And they would be very uncomfortable in badlands or tundra. 

Browns would be a little more cold tolerant.   Whites could either be badlands adapted or grasslands, depending on how you want to balance the races.   Personally, I like the idea of two "cold" races and two "hot" races, but having a neutral-temp race would have its advantages.   Each race could make temperature adapted clothing using local materials.   If you are cold-tolerant, you will overheat rapidly in a hot biome.   But if you wear hot-climate clothing made from ingredients found in the hotter biomes, then you can handle the heat without stroking out.     Likewise, heat-tolerant races can borrow or make cold-climate clothing to protect against the cold.   Meanwhile, some clothing would provide protect against cold and hot, but not work as good in the more extreme biomes.   So it would be fine for visiting the jungle but not enough to handle traveling in the desert.    These neutral climate clothes would be good for travelers and traders, while the more specialized clothing is best for living in one area.   

I imagine the clothing working something like this - a naked ginger can walk around in the tundra for ten minutes before catching hypothermia and for twenty minutes in the badlands.  The ginger will get hypothermia after thirty minutes in the swamp biome.  Wearing at least one piece of cold-adapted clothing would prevent hypothothermia in swamp and wearing two pieces would protect from cold in badlands.   Three pieces of cold-climate clothing would be enough for protection against hypothermia in tundra for a cold-tolerant character.   Traveling in grasslands will overheat cold tolerant characters and cool off hot characters after fifteen minutes.   Entering prairie, a naked ginger will get heat stroke in roughly five minutes, while jungle will overheat them in just one minute and desert overheats immediately.   Wearing one piece of climate-specific clothing will improve temperature tolerance, allowing the ginger to stay in jungle for five minutes and desert for one minute.   Additional clothing provides more protection.   Being adequately clothed prevents heat stoke/hypothermia.   But wearing the wrong kind of clothing does not provide any extra protection.   So a ginger fully clothed in seal furs will overheat rapidly in the desert, but if he is garbed in desert robes, he will be fine.

Temperature adaption would encourage eves to settle and build camps in unique locations, depending on race, since you would want to settle where your race is adapted to live initially, until you can make better protection. 

Of course, implementing early villages in desert/tundra would require the addition of new content to fill in the gaps in the early tech tree for a village that was centered around living in a new biome trio, instead of swamp/grass/prairie.   There should be a unique path forward for cold tribes (tundra/badlands/swamp) and hot tribes (desert/jungle/prairie)  that takes advantage of local resources, instead of relying heavily on the grasslands for early survival.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-07-29 20:16:20)

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