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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

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#1 2020-05-28 21:05:29

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 696

Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

I don´t like the new iron mechanic. it is less interesting than the old one because of the fixed placement and the hungry work. Some small discussions:

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9812
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9747

The biggest problem is, however, not about it being boring but about how terribly convoluted and unintuitive it is. It takes a masters degree just to get it working right and a whole doctorate thesis to dominate. If you think you are a pro and understand it, let me tell you there are some questions about it that I still can´t figure out and others that would make Jason sweat.

Also, it is important to note that as a nerf or restriction it miserably failed. It made iron more boring to get and that´s why you see less of it, few people want to be the lone guy hitting the vein with a pickaxe and coming back for food. However, even though there is a lot less iron going around, there is no choice to make around it. Families get it when it is needed and that´s it. Searching around the map for iron veins and loose iron was a lot more fun to me. I rarely play as miner these days.

Ok enough bashing. Here are three nerfs that I think are way more interesting gameplay wise:

Horsecarts speed nerf: Make it 170% movement speed

Horsecarts are the best way to move around the map and carry items, there is no arguing here. However, horses with no cart have no place in the game because it makes zero sense to have a horse without a cart. I have several time put carts on horses just to prevent the cart from decaying. So in reality horses with carts should have a small penalty compared to riding horses.

Why is it interesting? Well now you have a decition to make about your horses. Do you need a horse to move around the map to scout or do you need one to move stuff around? Someone took your stuff and stole your items in a horse cart hey! now you can follow him around easily on a riding horse.
How to make it fancy? Make a special saddle for riding only horses, or make it 225% speed too for them to highlight their movement speed compared to horsecarts. Make the cart removable too for the full epic remake. 

Ousider curse nerf: No more curses outside your family

Curse system is at its best development imo. I know there are some people around always crying about it /*cough legs/*cough but I like it.
However it doesn´t make any sense to be able to curse people outside your family. If anything it justs makes the whole server a huge disfunctional and separated family. A ginger girl came to town and stole 2 rubber tires to make oil: curse! Some white lady took our most valuated item (sugarcane lol): curse! hell I was once stabbed and cursed twice for taking a boards from another town with some entitled people.

Why is it interesting? Well imo stealing is not necesarily equal to griefing. And being able to curse people outside your family forces everyone into the same bag as far as retaliation goes from your perspective. So I would expect a lot more closed villages and suspicious play overall to other families as well as more stealing going around. Somewhere around Jason used the arguing about trusting others because they can actually harm you and not because of forced trust.
How to make it fancy? I don´t know about this one.

Eternal clothing nerf: Loom clothing and hats should decay

Eternal things aren´t fun behind Jason´s logic, and I got pretty angry about my straw hat and reed skirt getting hard nerfs but not those terrible expensive outfits. You can see them in old towns, you can see them in Eve towns, you can see them gathering dust in abandoned places, you can see them gathering dust in new places. I hate them all. I´m sick to my stomach everytime I see loom clothing on a locked biomass. I would honestly rather know it will eventually rot and I won´t have to see it because a ginger left it in the snow next to my brown town.

Why is it interesting? Almost selfexplanatory, it is pretty nonsense when your Eve is fully loom clothed and you get suits going around town even before you get sheep. Total nonsense and a way to destroy the early town play.
How to make it fancy? Make loom clothing repairable. Just like the shrimp nets can be fixed over time the loom clothing could use balls of yarn and stages of decay to fix them before they get shreded. Bonus points if you add a new job for the tailor in town and make sewing and shears more useful toolslots.

Bonus track: Nerf Wheelbarrow to 2 items

Well this is not really a complete nerf but a tradeoff since wheelbarrows have not real place in the game, there is exaclty zero chance you are not going to make a full cart instead of a wheelbarrow. Make the wheelbarrow hold only 2 large items. But in return make it´s pickup age 3. Just like a toy wheelbarrow, but useful.

Why is it interesting? Because you can then carry more stuff as a kid and help earlier. Hunting rabbits gets easier, and your get the bonus of being able to upgrade later in life to a full cart.
How to make it fancy? Make the full wheels removable on and off from the sledge, so you can fix a wheelbarrow for your little kid and he can upgrade and use it later in life.

Huge thanks to me for being so awesome and writing this big wall of text.


- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

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#2 2020-05-28 21:55:54

Coconut Fruit
Member
Registered: 2019-08-16
Posts: 806

Re: Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

testo wrote:

Searching around the map for iron veins and loose iron was a lot more fun to me.

I agree, it was more fun to me too. Jason tries to eliminate wandering around randomly, but I loved it. All these ugly grids give me a headache. But I get it why we have them... Vanilla players can't live without them.

Don't nerf horses, sometimes we need to make really big distances, slowing us down would make it only more boring. You can buff horses without cart, I'm fine with it, but I don't think we would have much use of horses without cart anyways.

Yes, being able to curse other families is just stupid and makes the game more boring. I suggested it long time ago but Jason didn't like it. But if we couldn't curse another fam members, we shouldn't also be able to follow them. One leader could kill a whole fam and not even being cursed.

I don't mind that loom clothing doesn't decay. I wouldn't mind if it decayed either. I prefer backpacks decay tho. Yeah, hunting rabbits is annoying now since we need to feed them, but we can now move them using shovels, we could make whole rabbit farms. We could technically bring them from far away into one place.

As for wheelbarrows, I would say 3 large items but pickup age 6 or 7. It would be more realistic.


Making own private server (Very easy! You can play on it even if you haven't bought the game)
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#3 2020-05-28 22:20:08

wondible
Member
Registered: 2018-04-19
Posts: 829

Re: Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

testo wrote:
Ousider curse nerf: No more curses outside your family

We had this once, back in the age of warswords. Jason didn't want you automatically cursing the other side of a war. Problem is griefers would just go grief a different family. Make any class of player uncursable, and griefers will arrange to be in that class.

It did lead to fenced towns and mistrust though. If you can't punish a griefer from another family, you have to be darn sure you don't let them in in the first place.


https://onemap.wondible.com/ -- https://wondible.com/ohol-family-trees/ -- https://wondible.com/ohol-name-picker/
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#4 2020-05-28 22:24:32

Coconut Fruit
Member
Registered: 2019-08-16
Posts: 806

Re: Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

wondible wrote:

Problem is griefers would just go grief a different family. Make any class of player uncursable, and griefers will arrange to be in that class.

It did lead to fenced towns and mistrust though. If you can't punish a griefer from another family, you have to be darn sure you don't let them in in the first place.

Yeah, maybe better leave it like it is, especially that we no longer can solo kill and all families can be so easily found.


Making own private server (Very easy! You can play on it even if you haven't bought the game)
Zoom mod
Mini guide for beginners
website with all recipies

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#5 2020-05-28 22:25:48

miskas
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2018-03-24
Posts: 1,087

Re: Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

wondible wrote:
testo wrote:
Ousider curse nerf: No more curses outside your family

We had this once, back in the age of warswords. Jason didn't want you automatically cursing the other side of a war. Problem is griefers would just go grief a different family. Make any class of player uncursable, and griefers will arrange to be in that class.

It did lead to fenced towns and mistrust though. If you can't punish a griefer from another family, you have to be darn sure you don't let them in in the first place.

If they do this now they are dead, they have no hierarchy protection and the other family has.


Killing a griefer kills him for 10 minutes, Cursing him kills him for 90 Days.

4 curses kill him for all of us,  Mass Cursing bring us Peace! Please Curse!
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#6 2020-05-28 22:34:04

testo
Member
Registered: 2019-05-12
Posts: 696

Re: Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

miskas wrote:
wondible wrote:
testo wrote:
Ousider curse nerf: No more curses outside your family

We had this once, back in the age of warswords. Jason didn't want you automatically cursing the other side of a war. Problem is griefers would just go grief a different family. Make any class of player uncursable, and griefers will arrange to be in that class.

It did lead to fenced towns and mistrust though. If you can't punish a griefer from another family, you have to be darn sure you don't let them in in the first place.

If they do this now they are dead, they have no hierarchy protection and the other family has.

Basically this is why it is possible now to remove the curse to outsiders and why fences would be more important. The old system failed because if a lone guy with a sword came in because the gate wasn´t closed it was game over, nowdays you can´t even approach a small family alone to kill anyone. Also follow command should totally be reserved for the same family members, it makes no sense to have an outside hierarchy if you are to care about your family.


- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

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#7 2020-05-29 00:24:32

Spoonwood
Member
Registered: 2019-02-06
Posts: 3,781

Re: Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

Horsecart proposed nerf: I see your point.

Outsider curse nerf: This got tried once before.  There were no consequences for some jack ass with a war sword going around and genociding other families.  It just enables people who weren't playing for reasons of building, parenting, or really even their own survival.  It enabled destructive players.  No, that one is not a good idea.

It's different now, because of the new killing mechanics?  Well, killing using a weapon isn't the only form of destructive behavior.  Still would be easier to unleash say domestic boars, mean pit bulls, or pickaxe kilns and ovens on another family than your own if cursing of players in other lineages was not possible.

Repairable clothing has a sense to it.

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#8 2020-05-29 08:58:15

Arcurus
Member
Registered: 2020-04-23
Posts: 815

Re: Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

Spoonwood wrote:

Horsecart proposed nerf: I see your point.

Outsider curse nerf: This got tried once before.  There were no consequences for some jack ass with a war sword going around and genociding other families.  It just enables people who weren't playing for reasons of building, parenting, or really even their own survival.  It enabled destructive players.  No, that one is not a good idea.

It's different now, because of the new killing mechanics?  Well, killing using a weapon isn't the only form of destructive behavior.  Still would be easier to unleash say domestic boars, mean pit bulls, or pickaxe kilns and ovens on another family than your own if cursing of players in other lineages was not possible.

Repairable clothing has a sense to it.

if a player does that, he can be super easily exiled and killed.  if boars are a problem why not hunt them down before a griefer does?

The situation one with a warsword being able to kill a hole town is totally different now with the leader / exile system.

Curses should protect inside, outside protection the combat / exile system / fences should do the job.

Of course fences would need some buff, like even if open only allowing strangers in if a ally of the owner is close.

Alternatively people in the minority group / having less allies, could be restricted to pickup stuff when one of the majority group is close, this would reduce also stealing without asking. people could then bring stuff outside for the person and trade with him.


To the iron, even with vanilla exploring rock areas for iron should not be that difficult with a horse. The current iron system is super un-intuitive not logic and boring.

I tired here to outline all the problems with iron. Maybe better argument for changing the iron system would be that the current system removes the possibility to create offspring villages / migration.

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/630

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#9 2020-05-29 11:56:41

Twisted
Member
Registered: 2018-10-12
Posts: 656

Re: Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

miskas wrote:
wondible wrote:
testo wrote:
Ousider curse nerf: No more curses outside your family

We had this once, back in the age of warswords. Jason didn't want you automatically cursing the other side of a war. Problem is griefers would just go grief a different family. Make any class of player uncursable, and griefers will arrange to be in that class.

It did lead to fenced towns and mistrust though. If you can't punish a griefer from another family, you have to be darn sure you don't let them in in the first place.

If they do this now they are dead, they have no hierarchy protection and the other family has.


Sure, they're dead, but there's nothing stopping them from respawning and coming back to that exact same town. You kill them, get 15 minutes of peace, and then they're back at it again, no consequences. This would be a griefer dream come true.

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#10 2020-05-29 14:45:11

miskas
Member
From: Greece
Registered: 2018-03-24
Posts: 1,087

Re: Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

Twisted wrote:

Sure, they're dead, but there's nothing stopping them from respawning and coming back to that exact same town. You kill them, get 15 minutes of peace, and then they're back at it again, no consequences. This would be a griefer dream come true.

hmm , true...and fence walls are really bad in this game.


Killing a griefer kills him for 10 minutes, Cursing him kills him for 90 Days.

4 curses kill him for all of us,  Mass Cursing bring us Peace! Please Curse!
Food value stats

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#11 2020-05-29 14:51:20

Arcurus
Member
Registered: 2020-04-23
Posts: 815

Re: Testo´s top 3 nerfs more interesting than iron nerf.

Twisted wrote:
miskas wrote:
wondible wrote:

We had this once, back in the age of warswords. Jason didn't want you automatically cursing the other side of a war. Problem is griefers would just go grief a different family. Make any class of player uncursable, and griefers will arrange to be in that class.

It did lead to fenced towns and mistrust though. If you can't punish a griefer from another family, you have to be darn sure you don't let them in in the first place.

If they do this now they are dead, they have no hierarchy protection and the other family has.


Sure, they're dead, but there's nothing stopping them from respawning and coming back to that exact same town. You kill them, get 15 minutes of peace, and then they're back at it again, no consequences. This would be a griefer dream come true.

isnt there a linage ban if you have been murdered? if so they cant spawn in the same family for some time.
In your own family you can curse them, so if not eve there are only then two more possibilities to walk all the way back to be exiled and killed again? i dont think thats worth for a griefer. he needs to grow up walk long time, then be killed fast with a good leader.


I think you are refering the the experience with the rift and war swords, both has changed a lot since then.

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-29 14:52:28)

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