Wow, posse system really worked

Lightning · 2020-05-05 03:01:59

I apologize if couldn’t deliver my message clearly, but for me English is still a skill that I haven’t quite mastered yet, I do try to be as clear as possible since minuscule mistakes could lead to a very different meaning of your whole though.

Lightning · 2020-05-05 03:35:31

I do have to agree with you fug, in regards to the whole concept of engine scrapping, it shouldn’t have been added to the game if you take into consideration how easy it is to destroy an engine, and how hard it is to make one : time, (that is already limited for players) the correct knowledge(not everyone can make one ) and the water. vs scrapping an engine: 30 seconds, a box and a magical hammer.

Last edited by Lightning (2020-05-05 03:36:30)

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-05-05 03:38:13

Being griefed isn't just about being killed. Posse system has increased other types of griefing. Nothing has really changed, except it's impossible to kill griefers now.

Whatever · 2020-05-05 04:43:04

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/693

QuirkySmirkyIan wrote:

Lmao... I made the suggestion as a joke fourm then Jason decided to actually do it so I put a github request and looks where we are now.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 391#p93391

JackTreehorn · 2020-05-05 08:27:50

Yep, Take away the posse system please. The game was much more fun before.

Dantox · 2020-05-05 08:45:49

jasonrohrer wrote:

Shall I turn the posse system completely off, and then you guys can go back to solo killing to your heart's content, and we can go back to a 25% daily victimization rate (on the worst days, 1/4 players were the victim of a murder)?

Oh my god i thought you wouldnt never say that, hell yes, do it!

Now that we are at it, what about tool slots!?!?

Arcurus · 2020-05-05 09:11:11

- why not remove the posse system and give people little bit more time to heal and or require two / three hits to die?

- for sure change the recycling of engines

- stop the ability to pick up the child's of wild boars

In this videos the current situation with posse system, engine recycling and wild boars is displayed:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdp4UA … QAqKoZvW0w

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-05 09:13:02)

JonySky · 2020-05-05 09:38:59

jasonrohrer wrote:

Shall I turn the posse system completely off, and then you guys can go back to solo killing to your heart's content, and we can go back to a 25% daily victimization rate (on the worst days, 1/4 players were the victim of a murder)?
Remember, those 25% days were WITH slow-down for solo posses, and WITH 12-second warning periods, etc. Not to mention all those other things that were added long ago (death stagger, healing, murder weapon stuck-in-hand, slow-down after murder, etc.) Even with all these things in place... all these things that made it so hard to land a kill (supposedly), 25% of the playerbase ended up getting murdered each day.

I never thought murder in the game was a problem. The player community complained about it incessantly.
Now the player community complains about the lack of murder incessantly.

I don't think Jason understood the problem,

Players are asking him for the old assassination system because it worked much better than the current pose system ...
But it is NOT the best solution !!!

The old murder system generated stories, it could be countered, it generated heroes and villains, it was fair, it needed some skill to kill ... now it is just a meme ...

But I repeat: THIS IS NOT THE BEST SOLUTION !!!

PVP in OHOL is absurd and should be completely redesign

Generate stun mechanics, prisons, non-fatal alternatives

Don't fight mass murder, nor griefers, that's a losing battle ... what you should do is empower stories and give tools to your players so that this is fair and attractive to everyone

sigmen4020 · 2020-05-05 10:36:33

The problem with straight up banning these people is that they’ll just come back on a new account.

Twisted · 2020-05-05 10:52:57

I don't understand some of these comments. You're saying there's more griefing now than before? Really? That's just not true. Sure, griefing still happens, but it's a fraction of what it was before.

I think one of the reasons people feel like there's more griefing now is that there's a bored kid posting videos of it on YouTube.

Please don't remove the posse system, I don't want to go back to times of constant murder fests.

Crumpaloo · 2020-05-05 12:18:21

Griefers will always be more organized then the overall player-base because they have A REASON TO BE.

All restricting killing does is make it so that when the griefers inevitably are able to do so the unorganized masses will have no chance against them.

How often do you see a posse of 3 being made to kill someone? For me, never, that being said how on earth do you think 5 people could do just as much?

You might as well remove the system all together at this rate its gonna be a dead mechanic anyways. At-least then the people that only suffer because of it will have some reprieve.

JonySky · 2020-05-05 12:33:49

Twisted wrote:

I don't understand some of these comments. You're saying there's more griefing now than before? Really? That's just not true. Sure, griefing still happens, but it's a fraction of what it was before.
I think one of the reasons people feel like there's more griefing now is that there's a bored kid posting videos of it on YouTube.
Please don't remove the posse system, I don't want to go back to times of constant murder fests.

Just analyze the video of "Bobo" with the 20 murders and you will realize that murder is not the problem of OHOL

I am going to save you this work and I will explain here what I have seen ...
I don't look at "Bobo" or his friends ... look at the other players ... what are they doing? escape? Alert other players? hide the childrens? run? ... none of that:

Rilea Lean is watering the crops ... while they are murdering right next to her ... (minute 2:17)

Look at Kate Lean eating berries in front of the killer ... (minute 2:43)

a few seconds later ... (minute 2:49)

And now look at Akshat Lean ... hahaha he is removing the corpses !!! soon you will have much more work! (minute 2:37)

well ... he will be dead (minute 5.08)

Look at Wortha Lean walking in front of his future assassin (minute 3.01)

Logically I end up dead just like the girl with no name (minute 3.18)

Dead 2 (minute 3.21)

Look at Brianna Lean and all those children ... they are static, they don't run away !! (minute 2.27)

And Berry Lean the merchant, walking through the genocide (minute 4.08)

This is fun ... look at Todd Lean, I think he's making burritos (minute 3.25)

I don't know if he could taste the burritos .. but he ended up dead (minute 4.27)

Why is this happening:
Because there are no mechanisms that help to unite, because information is lacking, because it is a confusing and defective system that nobody uses (only the griefers)
Because even if you run away from the city you cannot create a secondary city, and although you can create it you are condemned to steal tools from other cities and return to the same situation again and again ...
there is no motivation to run away, nor to face them, nobody will reward you for being a hero, when you die in this city you are born in another and that's it, to start again

There are no alternatives to this, if a gang arrives in your city wanting to annihilate your family, it only remains to resign yourself and start again.

And the funny thing is that these videos only show a small part of the OHOL problem

Last edited by JonySky (2020-05-05 12:35:12)

pein · 2020-05-05 12:35:25

when we started the game, I was the first to complain why is there killing at all, it was so broken

but if you see it logically:
people will have disputes
-sometimes without a clear good/bad side
-griefers
-people ganking up on innocents

we need a defence system equal to attack system, it can be a bit random, luck matters, but skill should matter too
in the end, they flex when they kill you, it's just bad when there is no outplay

the dodging was good mechanic, at least stopped bad griefers and pure bad intention
experienced players are generally right, even if the other side doesn't think that way, so no reason to not give a bit of advantage for the player knowledge, also it's a risk for griefers. this bobo no ones would show their arrows up their ass with their entire gang, facing me

a hp system would be nice, and some more weapons, like blunt weapons, a lot of shafts could do some damage, fights would be longer, you would need 3 stabs or 10 hits, still prefers the numbers, and people can heal.
some simple armor giving 10-20% extra defensive stats

making bows a bit harder to make.
slot system prevents this but: making your own knife to use it. that would be major. these dumbasses destroy engines, they never ever made one.

as for waiting period: there could be another player holding the wound, so the timer is longer but the other player can't move, this holds down one person, also strengthens safety in numbers

I don't see why pads can be thrown away, and tortillas for the case
we make food in bowls we had piss before, or eat potatoes which came from a shovel which had dung on it
if we don't have a proper system for the germs, then it's no point having 2 things that get dirty when thrown on the ground but the tacos can be eaten from the floor.
It costs time, tool slots and resources and it proves people were thinking ahead. Then some people throw pads accidentally and all that is ruined.

Also, one weapon should always be available regardless of slots, also the ability to heal others. This is just not part of the jobs, it's an emergency defence, everyone should be able to hold a weapon when needed, at least a shaft with spikes to smack others.

Maybe some reason to stay inside fences or buildings. Right now it's just resource gathering 90% and 10% using the resources.

pein · 2020-05-05 12:49:50

JonySky lol, frame by frame analysis

true

there is no transition from peace to violence
and you can prepare all your life to defeat attackers who may or may not come
it's just dumb to guard a place for 60 minutes, you need to eat, build and play the game

there is no notification that someone wants to kill you or any reasoning why they want that

there could be some sort of invitation to a duel, then both players are entering an arena and one comes out.
you said jason, we need kills to punish people who destroy stuff.
but we got a reason there, a target, a proof may be
the biggest problem with duel is that I you don't do it every life, you become rusty, panic, drop the weapon, you are too focused on the job, while the griefers got no care in the world, they got muscle memory and they are the aggressor

it's a game, it's supposed to be fun, and somewhat equal, honourable
inside a city people should invite others for a duel or they shouldn't be able to use posse to do multiple kills
do you think that monkey would upload a video where he is killed against a decent opponent with equal chances?

Crumpaloo · 2020-05-05 13:02:17

pein wrote:

JonySky lol, frame by frame analysis
true
there is no transition from peace to violence
and you can prepare all your life to defeat attackers who may or may not come
it's just dumb to guard a place for 60 minutes, you need to eat, build and play the game
there is no notification that someone wants to kill you or any reasoning why they want that
there could be some sort of invitation to a duel, then both players are entering an arena and one comes out.
you said jason, we need kills to punish people who destroy stuff.
but we got a reason there, a target, a proof may be
the biggest problem with duel is that I you don't do it every life, you become rusty, panic, drop the weapon, you are too focused on the job, while the griefers got no care in the world, they got muscle memory and they are the aggressor
it's a game, it's supposed to be fun, and somewhat equal, honourable
inside a city people should invite others for a duel or they shouldn't be able to use posse to do multiple kills
do you think that monkey would upload a video where he is killed against a decent opponent with equal chances?

Reason for that being the posse system, it lowered the amount of murders happening so as a result people started expecting them less often.

Think of it this way. You are born in a temple at the top of a mountain, the people here have only ever known the day to day living with no violence whatsoever for years upon years. Then all of a sudden a small army of men attack the temple, do you think the people there will know to fight back, or to even know what to do at all?

JonySky · 2020-05-05 13:20:13

Crumpaloo wrote:

pein wrote:
JonySky lol, frame by frame analysis
true
there is no transition from peace to violence
and you can prepare all your life to defeat attackers who may or may not come
it's just dumb to guard a place for 60 minutes, you need to eat, build and play the game
there is no notification that someone wants to kill you or any reasoning why they want that
there could be some sort of invitation to a duel, then both players are entering an arena and one comes out.
you said jason, we need kills to punish people who destroy stuff.
but we got a reason there, a target, a proof may be
the biggest problem with duel is that I you don't do it every life, you become rusty, panic, drop the weapon, you are too focused on the job, while the griefers got no care in the world, they got muscle memory and they are the aggressor
it's a game, it's supposed to be fun, and somewhat equal, honourable
inside a city people should invite others for a duel or they shouldn't be able to use posse to do multiple kills
do you think that monkey would upload a video where he is killed against a decent opponent with equal chances?

Reason for that being the posse system, it lowered the amount of murders happening so as a result people started expecting them less often.
Think of it this way. You are born in a temple at the top of a mountain, the people here have only ever known the day to day living with no violence whatsoever for years upon years. Then all of a sudden a small army of men attack the temple, do you think the people there will know to fight back, or to even know what to do at all?

Check out this story I uploaded 2 years ago:
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3704

OHOL has always been like this ...
There have always been murders and players don't care about assassins until they see bloody bodies on the ground ... they keep doing their chores like ants

But it is not a problem of the players, there are many problems with communication that are incompatible with the gang system

we can't expect players from different parts of the world to magically unite to kill a griefer
Other games have solved patrols and teams with VOIP or with group chats ... but OHOL does not have any of that, just a few texts (without the possibility of placing numbers) and here we have to agree several people from various parts of the world to murder another player ... ahh and there is no possibility of error ... you only have 2 options: kill or let him kill, you can not do anything else

Last edited by JonySky (2020-05-05 13:23:41)

pein · 2020-05-05 13:34:20

when your life is on the line you fight, at least some of them. it's an instinct, might not be to effective but there is a chance they take someone down with themselves.

they can teach you to fight is bad and that puts a mental stop to it, and that can be abused by the attackers, when you can at least threaten a fight then the attackers need to think about if it's worth it or not. That's the problem here, if the griefers know there is nothing you can do, they can keep annoying you. If there are casualties on both sides, they at least need to focus on the weaker players to flex with their "skills"

this must be an american thing that Columbus or Cortez are called heroes when all they were is war criminals.
Ofc you can fight natives with way superior army, but the distance and separation made that happen in the first place. Some native Indians learned to use guns and they put up a fight, also they were superior in hand to hand combat just because their hunting lifestyle. Same goes for Africa where some countries like Ethiopia were talking to multiple sides and got weapons from one to fight off the other, and things weren't as smooth as with other places.

In Europe, especially, countries grow up together side by side, they never had a huge technological advantage over others, maybe Germany in a world war, but spies took that advantage away and others had a chance to fight back. There is always casualty on both sides, not just the attacker side, sure it has the surprise effect, but things can go bad quick. That's what this game is missing, some advantage on the defender side.

Maybe some sort of no weapon zones, not more magical than force fields around special biomes. A way to force an equal fight, if they refuse a duel invitation they become slower while in range and can't hold weapons.
Automated warning system when people start killing others. You can't expect people to see everything especially on 7x10 tiles.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-05 14:42:24

sigmen4020 wrote:

The problem with straight up banning these people is that they’ll just come back on a new account.

1. The person buys another account.

2. That person has a finite budget. Eventually such a person runs out of accounts that s/he is willing to purchase or quits.

sigmen4020 · 2020-05-05 14:59:44

Spoonwood wrote:

sigmen4020 wrote:
The problem with straight up banning these people is that they’ll just come back on a new account.
1. The person buys another account.
2. That person has a finite budget. Eventually such a person runs out of accounts that s/he is willing to purchase or quits.

Unless the ban requirements are really lax, there’s no way to ban alternate accounts to the degree that the dedicated griefers end up giving up. And we all know what lax ban requirements will do, a bunch of unjustified bans, which results in a bunch of unsatisfied customers that just got the product they bought taken away from them for minor reasons.

How would possibly be able to consistently ban so many alt accounts without a bunch of innocent people getting caught up in the mix?

Twisted · 2020-05-05 15:34:31

Jason can't just ban people. They're not doing anything wrong. Sure, they're annoying and harassing people and that sucks, but when they bought their account they didn't agree to any terms that said they CAN'T do that. The only thing he can do is change the rules of the game and empower good actors so that griefing is less likely.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-05 16:31:11

sigmen4020 wrote:

Unless the ban requirements are really lax, there’s no way to ban alternate accounts to the degree that the dedicated griefers end up giving up. And we all know what lax ban requirements will do, a bunch of unjustified bans, which results in a bunch of unsatisfied customers that just got the product they bought taken away from them for minor reasons.
How would possibly be able to consistently ban so many alt accounts without a bunch of innocent people getting caught up in the mix?

It was talked about in another thread where people got banned after a group of players were able to watch what they did. That's how.

But, in any case, Bobo Bill isn't innocent. The evidence exists on his YouTube channel. So, the concern about 'innocence' isn't relevant to considering whether or not Bobo Bill should get banned, since he is not innocent.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-05-05 16:32:25)

Spoonwood · 2020-05-05 16:37:13

Twisted wrote:

Jason can't just ban people.

No, he can ban people.

Twisted wrote:

Sure, they're annoying and harassing people and that sucks, but when they bought their account they didn't agree to any terms that said they CAN'T do that.

There is nothing in the terms of server about having access to bigserver2. Again, he could ban people from playing on bigserver2 permanently. He already suggested banning people from a server as within his power on the Github previously:

jasonrohrer wrote:

Actually, a server with a blacklist would be good enough, I suppose. Open to public, but then people can be removed.
Maybe I will try to set up a "moderated" server as an experiment.

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/529

sigmen4020 · 2020-05-05 17:31:12

Spoonwood wrote:

sigmen4020 wrote:
Unless the ban requirements are really lax, there’s no way to ban alternate accounts to the degree that the dedicated griefers end up giving up. And we all know what lax ban requirements will do, a bunch of unjustified bans, which results in a bunch of unsatisfied customers that just got the product they bought taken away from them for minor reasons.
How would possibly be able to consistently ban so many alt accounts without a bunch of innocent people getting caught up in the mix?
It was talked about in another thread where people got banned after a group of players were able to watch what they did. That's how.
But, in any case, Bobo Bill isn't innocent. The evidence exists on his YouTube channel. So, the concern about 'innocence' isn't relevant to considering whether or not Bobo Bill should get banned, since he is not innocent.

Never claimed that Bobo is innocent, but banning him on his main account won’t solve anything. He’s just gonna pop up on another account and continue as if nothing happened. What happens when he stop streaming and you can’t gather evidence on him anymore, because he knows that’ll get him banned? How are you then gonna determine that an account is a Bobo alt if he stops streaming, but continues griefing?

Spoonwood · 2020-05-05 17:49:56

sigmen4020 wrote:

What happens when he stop streaming and you can’t gather evidence on him anymore, because he knows that’ll get him banned?

I think people would report such, or the playback feature could get used.

sigmen4020 wrote:

How are you then gonna determine that an account is a Bobo alt if he stops streaming, but continues griefing?

It doesn't matter if it's Bobo or not. Anyone doing those sorts of actions is not innocent.

Lightning · 2020-05-05 18:04:39

Twisted wrote:

The only thing he can do is change the rules of the game and empower good actors so that griefing is less likely.

Isn’t this the reason why we are here? With the posse system, the waiting time before landing a kill and the 20 minute minimum time lived to join a pose? He couldn’t manage to address the issue to his core because he cant, it’s an issue that goes beyond the games limits currently, unless Jason decides to changes his game vision, but that won’t happen.

The fact is that Jason can’t empower the good guys without also empowering the griefers in some other way

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2020-05-05 03:01:59

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#27 2020-05-05 03:35:31

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#28 2020-05-05 03:38:13

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#29 2020-05-05 04:43:04

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#30 2020-05-05 08:27:50

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#31 2020-05-05 08:45:49

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#32 2020-05-05 09:11:11

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#33 2020-05-05 09:38:59

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#34 2020-05-05 10:36:33

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#35 2020-05-05 10:52:57

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#36 2020-05-05 12:18:21

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#37 2020-05-05 12:33:49

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#38 2020-05-05 12:35:25

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#39 2020-05-05 12:49:50

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#40 2020-05-05 13:02:17

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#41 2020-05-05 13:20:13

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#42 2020-05-05 13:34:20

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#43 2020-05-05 14:42:24

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#44 2020-05-05 14:59:44

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#45 2020-05-05 15:34:31

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#46 2020-05-05 16:31:11

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#47 2020-05-05 16:37:13

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#48 2020-05-05 17:31:12

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#49 2020-05-05 17:49:56

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#50 2020-05-05 18:04:39

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

Board footer