A way to deal with griefers

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-17 18:28:02

In CS GO you can report other players, whether for cheating or griefing. If a player gets a certain amount of reports through one single game, replay of the video is saved and then players with global elite rank (very pro/experienced players) can watch the replay and then decide if the suspect was using aim bot, wall hack and/or was just griefing. The suspect will be banned if he was doing at least one of these things and if majority of these expert players confirmed it. This way administration of the game doesn't need to spend time dealing with cheaters/griefers, experienced players do it for them.

In real world we would just put people that don't follow the rules to prisons. Yeah, we don't have written rules here in OHOL what can be done and what can't, but if majority decided to put a player to jail (donkey town) for a certain amount of time, that means that player's behavior was disruptive, anti-competitive, and/or anti-social, and they deserve it.

Here is a random video I just found, you can watch only the first case which ends at about 4:00 to see how it works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKWX-O4ex6o

The cool thing is that the players' names are hidden, this way you won't have more mercy for your friends, because you don't know who is playing in the replay video, and you always watch a random replay from a whole list of reported players.

There would be no more cursing, you could only /report player and nobody would even know that you reported someone, and you could report as many players as you want at once.

Yeah, I'm aware implementation of this would probably take lots of time, we don't even have working replay system.

What do you think about this kind of system, people? Would it solve griefing part in this game completely?

DestinyCall · 2020-04-17 18:30:44

Nothing solves griefing completely, but I think this is a cool idea for community moderation.

tobiasisahawk · 2020-04-17 18:37:27

You can identify some griefers hashes from the logs. I was looking for who was doing all of the bear griefing and found a couple hashes that released a bunch of bears yesterday without shooting any bears. The biggest bear griefer released 60 bears yesterday without shooting any.

The_Anabaptist · 2020-04-17 19:06:01

I suspect that you all are too young to have watched WarGames.

"A strange game. The only winning move is to not play. How about a nice game of chess?"

The_Anabaptist

jasonrohrer · 2020-04-17 21:04:28

The big difference here is that this game is, in part, ABOUT griefing---or rather, how we deal with it collectively.

Society and civilization exist as a way to deal with griefing, among other things.

We band together because we are less vulnerable to the whims of lone bad actors when we're together than when we're out there alone.

We form monopolies of violence (police and military) because we'd rather have violence in the hands of a few trustworthy people than in everyone's hands, equally. We appeal to the monopoly to carry out justice on our behalf (report a crime, testify in court, etc).

The group, when acting together (like a police force or army), can be so much more violent than the individual----the bad individual really doesn't have a chance of doing that much harm before getting dealt with.

I.e., 100 people are going to kill one bad person before that one bad person kills 100 people. Even the best spree killers or serial killers rarely kill 100+ people.

Furthermore, the group has more resources at their disposal. You bring a pistol, they bring a rifle. You bring a rifle, they bring a machine gun. You bring a machine gun, they bring a tank.

As rich as the richest person on earth is, they'd have no chance of persevering against the US military, as an example. There's always more where that came from.

My goal is to build systems in the game that let you deal with this inside the game. I might be trying to do the impossible here (given that no other game has pulled it off, and they all end up with report systems---totally broken and useless report systems, generally), but I'm still trying.

Spoonwood · 2020-04-17 21:46:56

jasonrohrer wrote:

The big difference here is that this game is, in part, ABOUT griefing---or rather, how we deal with it collectively.

Then your claim of the game being about 'parenting and civilization building' is false advertising.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Society and civilization exist as a way to deal with griefing, among other things.

No, they don't. Society predates griefing easily, since societies exist in all social animals. And civilization exists for purposes of *constructing* things, not as some response to people trying to harass or thwrat others.

jasonrohrer wrote:

We band together because we are less vulnerable to the whims of lone bad actors when we're together than when we're out there alone.

First off, you don't band together with anyone. You work by yourself. Second, people don't build structures just because of bad actors in general.

jasonrohrer wrote:

We form monopolies of violence (police and military) because we'd rather have violence in the hands of a few trustworthy people than in everyone's hands, equally.

No, there doesn't exist monopolies of violence. Self-defense exists. And neither supplies some sort of good.

jasonrohrer wrote:

We appeal to the monopoly to carry out justice on our behalf (report a crime, testify in court, etc).

No, we do not. Neither the police, nor the military runs the court system. The courts dispense justice, and in the United States the judicial branch of government is separate from the executive branch.

jasonrohrer wrote:

The group, when acting together (like a police force or army), can be so much more violent than the individual----the bad individual really doesn't have a chance of doing that much harm before getting dealt with.

Wrong. Nuclear weapons exist. So do biological and chemical weapons.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I.e., 100 people are going to kill one bad person before that one bad person kills 100 people.

Nope. Look, you just threw in justice. But, the death penalty is sometimes illegal in the United States and other times rarely used.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Furthermore, the group has more resources at their disposal. You bring a pistol, they bring a rifle. You bring a rifle, they bring a machine gun. You bring a machine gun, they bring a tank.

No, ever increasing arms doesn't lead to the cessation of violence. It leads to the use of nuclear weapons.

jasonrohrer wrote:

My goal is to build systems in the game that let you deal with this inside the game.

You can't build such systems. There isn't enough time.

Also, suppose you could build such systems. But, then griefing would have be well-definable, since anything that runs on code has to be well-definable. But, griefing is not well-definable. Thus, we have a contradiction. Therefore, you or anyone else building such systems is impossible.

Griefing requires judgment, meaning human judgment, in order to get dealt with adequately. Non-artificially intelligent computer systems lack the discernment that comes with judgment.

tobiasisahawk · 2020-04-17 22:23:01

Spoonwood, there's a better way to deal with griefers. Find out how they're exploiting the game, and tell Jason about it. If you do, then Jason will probably fix it. If we just tell him to fix griefers obviously there's nothing he can do.

pein · 2020-04-17 22:28:05

irl we don't re-incarnate

but also if someone shows his face it will be remembered

so there is a risk for burglars or killers
also, no one needs to agree with you for self-defence, you just do it, when your life is on the line there are no rules
and generally defending is easier than attacking , you know your territory better, you can prepare
you removed the combat skill and gave all advantage to the attacker

there are cases where no one sees or knows so it happens but since we got so many similar faces, hard to tell apart

we really need some parts of this simulated
60 minutes it's not enough to form something and keep up with this chaos

I understand that report systems are problematic and people report others just cause they pissed, doesn't make it right

you talk about real life but we got magic fences and invisible shields around biomes

this is still a game and it supposed to be fun
first of all, there are people who would like to fight and there are some who don't
so you could help people get a passive approach

I would also prefer that if someone wants to fight, then it shouldn't stab you in the back, should be properly honourable duels with equal chances

now we could sit inside a fence, but that won't solve the issue, they can ruin the city
the most sad part, these bobo guys are so bad at the game that they wouldn't have a chance in any competition
some griefers are decently good at the game, just bored so they stir up shit , but at least we could fight against bad intended noobs alone

I think proper ownership of territories and items could shift the game into a better economical stance then it would be a reason to make jobs, right now we don't have enough activities that reward doing things

Last edited by pein (2020-04-18 02:30:51)

Spoonwood · 2020-04-17 22:38:48

tobiasisahawk wrote:

Spoonwood, there's a better way to deal with griefers. Find out how they're exploiting the game, and tell Jason about it. If you do, then Jason will probably fix it.

No, he won't. Also, I already did what you told me to do, and Jason more or less covered his eyes and refused to look at what had gotten done. I can link you to the particular thread.

Spoonwood · 2020-04-17 22:40:30

pein wrote:

the most sad part, these bobo guys are so bad at the game that they wouldn't have a chance in any competition

Competition with respect to what?

AmberA · 2020-04-17 23:27:26

tobiasisahawk wrote:

You can identify some griefers hashes from the logs. I was looking for who was doing all of the bear griefing and found a couple hashes that released a bunch of bears yesterday without shooting any bears. The biggest bear griefer released 60 bears yesterday without shooting any.

I think there is an easy way to fix this.

I'd made the suggestion awhile ago that anyone who releases a bear should be given a curse automatically by the system + an additional curse for everyone who ever dies from that bear. And Jason should implement this SECRETLY so that all the jerks end up in donkey town and stay there because they keep doing their jerk behavior.

AmberA · 2020-04-17 23:37:55

Another option is to give the family more options for moderating itself.

Such as all elders can vote to exile someone, majority rules. And if someone is exiled then that person is restricted from doing certain things for the rest of that life: They cannot have children, they cannot pick up children, they cannot name children, they cannot pick up knives, or bows, or arrows, they cannot release bears, they cannot use any tools except a hoe or shovel, they cannot ride horses. Basically they cannot do all the things that most griefers do.

MrGold · 2020-04-18 00:21:02

AmberA wrote:

Another option is to give the family more options for moderating itself.
Such as all elders can vote to exile someone, majority rules. And if someone is exiled then that person is restricted from doing certain things for the rest of that life: They cannot have children, they cannot pick up children, they cannot name children, they cannot pick up knives, or bows, or arrows, they cannot release bears, they cannot use any tools except a hoe or shovel, they cannot ride horses. Basically they cannot do all the things that most griefers do.

What eat and talk?

MrGold · 2020-04-18 00:23:35

Also this topic has no purpose then to yell at each other like many other topics just ignore the damn clowns as Jason says we should be able to take care of ourselves there's always going to be problems ans flaws

AmberA · 2020-04-18 01:11:20

MrGold wrote:

AmberA wrote:
Another option is to give the family more options for moderating itself.
Such as all elders can vote to exile someone, majority rules. And if someone is exiled then that person is restricted from doing certain things for the rest of that life: They cannot have children, they cannot pick up children, they cannot name children, they cannot pick up knives, or bows, or arrows, they cannot release bears, they cannot use any tools except a hoe or shovel, they cannot ride horses. Basically they cannot do all the things that most griefers do.
What eat and talk?

People who just eat and talk aren't griefers. They are annoying but they aren't griefing. The real griefers are the ones who bring bears, who stab people for fun, who kidnap children, who steal horses, etc. There are lots of things that can be done with just use of a hoe or shovel.

Morti · 2020-04-18 01:22:19

jasonrohrer wrote:

The big difference here is that this game is, in part, ABOUT griefing---or rather, how we deal with it collectively.
Society and civilization exist as a way to deal with griefing, among other things.
We band together because we are less vulnerable to the whims of lone bad actors when we're together than when we're out there alone.
We form monopolies of violence (police and military) because we'd rather have violence in the hands of a few trustworthy people than in everyone's hands, equally. We appeal to the monopoly to carry out justice on our behalf (report a crime, testify in court, etc).

The group, when acting together (like a police force or army), can be so much more violent than the individual----the bad individual really doesn't have a chance of doing that much harm before getting dealt with.
I.e., 100 people are going to kill one bad person before that one bad person kills 100 people. Even the best spree killers or serial killers rarely kill 100+ people.
Furthermore, the group has more resources at their disposal. You bring a pistol, they bring a rifle. You bring a rifle, they bring a machine gun. You bring a machine gun, they bring a tank.
As rich as the richest person on earth is, they'd have no chance of persevering against the US military, as an example. There's always more where that came from.

My goal is to build systems in the game that let you deal with this inside the game. I might be trying to do the impossible here (given that no other game has pulled it off, and they all end up with report systems---totally broken and useless report systems, generally), but I'm still trying.

Just make a good game. .

pein · 2020-04-18 02:46:35

Spoonwood wrote:

pein wrote:
the most sad part, these bobo guys are so bad at the game that they wouldn't have a chance in any competition
Competition with respect to what?

I saw a youtube video where a guy played his first games, in that life was a girl, all went fine until she found a knife, then convinced her kids to stab people

later on, she couldn't take out a knife from a basket cause she didn't know the basic mechanics of right-clicking on containers

the game shouldn't be full skill-based combat, but come on, some bad intended noobs team up and there is nothing you can do against

btw interesting system didn't know overwatch had that, had something similar in mind last time I suggested something
let's face it, Jason don't have the time to watch every single replay, even on a faster replay

I would help to score some lives, let's say 10 random people would analyze a replay and if all agree then Jason can look into it
shouldn't be too oppressive but some serial griefers are just there to annoy everyone without any reason

if someone gets butthurt after like 40 minutes and kills some others and things escalate that's fine, but when someone starts destroying a town at age 3 then it's a problem you can't solve with curses and such

after I was cursed a few times for basically no reason, I tried out what happens when I'm a naked noob who ruins things
nobody cared, I was killed for naming a baby eventually

we also got serious issues with people cursing randomly out of spite, I'm sure some of them would deserve a ban cause they ind stupid reasons and then go around to convince others to curse

Morti · 2020-04-18 08:11:49

Oh, hi, every other game since 1983.

We meet, again... *sigh*

jasonrohrer wrote:

Because really, that's what parenting, is all ABOUT guys.
You just don't, get it.

Dantox · 2020-04-18 08:22:50

tobiasisahawk wrote:

Find out how they're exploiting the game, and tell Jason about it. If you do, then Jason will probably fix it.

Key word: "Probably"

I mean, he did nerf swords to oblivion to make them virtually removed from the game (even when we insisted they were a bad idea from the beggining)

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-18 08:41:50

jasonrohrer wrote:

The big difference here is that this game is, in part, ABOUT griefing---or rather, how we deal with it collectively.

I think it would be fun if griefing was coming only from other families. I mean, we shouldn't trust other families, unless we are in peace with them. We shouldn't be able to curse other family members unless they are in peace with us. Because this way it would actually make sense and be fun. We would need to protect our stuff and we would see sense in this. But griefing within our own family is a terrible thing and I don't really want it to exist.

You want to grief? Okay, go and grief other families, steal their stuff and bring it to us, kill their sheep or whatever.

Protecting things from other families makes sense to people, we don't want to protect anything from our own fam because it's just stupid.

Morti · 2020-04-18 20:23:09

Coconut Fruit wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
The big difference here is that this game is, in part, ABOUT griefing---or rather, how we deal with it collectively.
I think it would be fun if griefing was coming only from other families. I mean, we shouldn't trust other families, unless we are in peace with them. We shouldn't be able to curse other family members unless they are in peace with us. Because this way it would actually make sense and be fun. We would need to protect our stuff and we would see sense in this. But griefing within our own family is a terrible thing and I don't really want it to exist.
You want to grief? Okay, go and grief other families, steal their stuff and bring it to us, kill their sheep or whatever.
Protecting things from other families makes sense to people, we don't want to protect anything from our own fam because it's just stupid.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense,
Born white, steal from blacks
Born black, steal it back.

Steal. Die. Repeat.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-18 20:41:56

Morti wrote:

Yeah, that makes perfect sense,
Born white, steal from blacks
Born black, steal it back.
Steal. Die. Repeat.

That wouldn't happen if families protected their stuff. And protecting own stuff from strangers at least makes sense.

Morti · 2020-04-18 22:04:21

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Morti wrote:
Yeah, that makes perfect sense,
Born white, steal from blacks
Born black, steal it back.
Steal. Die. Repeat.
That wouldn't happen if families protected their stuff. And protecting own stuff from strangers at least makes sense.

Never treating anyone like a stranger from the get go, makes more sense.
Never fall into the trap, of trading freedom for peace.
When you stop looking at your children with 100% love, that's when the game goes to shit.
That's when, what was best about this game, is lost.

Offense and Defense are equally wrong choices.

The test, is about maintaining compassion, for each other, no matter who you are.

Don't fail. Pass the test.
Pass it and teach others how to pass it.
And someday soon, not a person on Earth, will know anything but, the correct answers.
But you must commit to that goal, if we are to have that outcome.

We have had 99% of people on board with this idea, 99% of the time this game has been alive.
And every 1% we lose, we gain 1%, for the most part.
Don't, let that number slip down.
No matter who does what, no matter what Jason encourages, no matter how shitty you lost at another game or how bad you feel because of something else in the world.
Don't forget what sets this game apart from everything else.
Don't you dare lose sight of that.

Spoonwood · 2020-04-18 22:17:26

Morti wrote:

When you stop looking at your children with 100% love, that's when the game goes to shit.

Morti wrote:

The test, is about maintaining compassion, for each other, no matter who you are.

Morti, I don't so much as disagree with your claim that the game should be that way.

However, there have existed several points in the game's history, including now, where players have had rational cause to not feed every child. So, no, I just don't agree that this game is such a "test"... not in how it works.

Morti · 2020-04-18 23:37:25

Spoonwood wrote:

Morti wrote:
When you stop looking at your children with 100% love, that's when the game goes to shit.
Morti wrote:
The test, is about maintaining compassion, for each other, no matter who you are.
Morti, I don't so much as disagree with your claim that the game should be that way.
However, there have existed several points in the game's history, including now, where players have had rational cause to not feed every child. So, no, I just don't agree that this game is such a "test"... not in how it works.

The most influential lives I've ever lived in this game, have been ones where I have starved as a child yet my mother did everything in her power, to try and feed me and her other kids. Going through that, as a child, and experiencing it as a mother, where you want nothing more, than for your children to be capable of feeding, and living, on their own, those experiences... sealed the deal for me. Given the amount of time I have played, I still probably have some of the lowest numbers, when it comes to number of children, wanting to live, that I have not kept alive, and some of the lowwest numbers, for the number of players killed or mothers abandoned.

I cannot give you numbers I do not have, but you look back, in the threads, at the people who have defended love and compassion in this game, and most of them, don't play anymore. You look back, at the number of people, who didn't care, and they are gone too.

I have probably used the word love, more than any other human being, in this game, or in reference to the people who have played it.

This game, is not about the game, it's about us, caring for each other, no matter who we are.
That's it.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-04-17 18:28:02

A way to deal with griefers

#2 2020-04-17 18:30:44

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#3 2020-04-17 18:37:27

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#4 2020-04-17 19:06:01

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#5 2020-04-17 21:04:28

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#6 2020-04-17 21:46:56

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#7 2020-04-17 22:23:01

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#8 2020-04-17 22:28:05

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#9 2020-04-17 22:38:48

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#10 2020-04-17 22:40:30

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#11 2020-04-17 23:27:26

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#12 2020-04-17 23:37:55

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#13 2020-04-18 00:21:02

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#14 2020-04-18 00:23:35

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#15 2020-04-18 01:11:20

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#16 2020-04-18 01:22:19

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#17 2020-04-18 02:46:35

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#18 2020-04-18 08:11:49

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#19 2020-04-18 08:22:50

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#20 2020-04-18 08:41:50

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#21 2020-04-18 20:23:09

Re: A way to deal with griefers

#22 2020-04-18 20:41:56

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#23 2020-04-18 22:04:21

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#24 2020-04-18 22:17:26

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#25 2020-04-18 23:37:25

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