Made my signature cow pen again

pein · 2020-03-30 18:46:34

Wanted to try the black walls

Took me 2 lives to make all the copper x9, limestone x18

The cow is easy to move now which isn't the best, and sadly can't walk through the grapes once it's grown
unwatered is okay, but since you work with water, you will get it blocked eventually

Plus the food value of grapes is terrible 1x5 per water which is 4 times worse than berries.

I guess I could make it with glasswort bushes or tracks or stew/cabbage crocks. Yellow needs brown fam and all the rest needs black fam items, so only black and white are universal.

Elsayal · 2020-03-30 19:34:08

Can't see the point of such a pe(i)n.

voy178 · 2020-03-30 19:47:30

Me neither. As dodgy as it might look, the table+fence is better.

Better yet, an aesthetically pleasing pen and barn look great.

Jojigirl · 2020-03-30 20:51:19

I like the look of it! Black and deep purple are my favorite colors! <3

Can cows walk through tables? If not, it might not look as cool, but tables would be ideal (where the middle grapes are) you can add single bowls and buckets on the tables for easy/quick grabbing when milking. When done the table could hold the extra buckets of milk.

pein · 2020-03-30 21:32:05

As long as you could walk through the grapes, it was enough for storing bucket, bowls of water between the walls are easy to swap and you can get your 3 buckets of milk all the time. Tables do the same as boxes. As long as it's not shit fences, which decay and leave the cows wondering around the city, I'm fine with it, I liked that setup with 2 stone walls, but doesn't have to be always the same.
I think that building nice things for the look of it, can affect people to use it.

Grapes are a no go now if you are not black, cause really needs proper glass production, people eating the grapes is just bad. Also, I wouldn't put berry bushes there. I guess there is another version I just figured out, might do it sometime.

testo · 2020-03-31 00:57:23

Wait what swapping water? I dont understand, Why you need water?

pein · 2020-03-31 01:04:10

testo wrote:

Wait what swapping water? I dont understand, Why you need water?

You can get 3 buckets of milk alone if you milk the cow and drop swap the bucket with a prefilled bowl of water, then swap the empty bowl in the box or table for the next bucket, plus you can remove milk to stop from devaluating into skimmed milk, also no reason to make too many creams. A moving cow makes it more annoying. More than one cow makes it more likely that people just overfeed calves and you get multiple cows for no reason.

testo · 2020-03-31 01:40:30

pein wrote:

testo wrote:
Wait what swapping water? I dont understand, Why you need water?
You can get 3 buckets of milk alone if you milk the cow and drop swap the bucket with a prefilled bowl of water, then swap the empty bowl in the box or table for the next bucket, plus you can remove milk to stop from devaluating into skimmed milk, also no reason to make too many creams. A moving cow makes it more annoying. More than one cow makes it more likely that people just overfeed calves and you get multiple cows for no reason.

You mean you water the cow with a bowl of water instead of getting x4 corn ears? Blashphemy. Shame on you Pein, shame on you. Isn´t it better to have 3 cows and one more corn pile?

pein · 2020-03-31 03:04:27

I mean you spend soil and tool use, so it's closer to 0.5 per corn, now seriously bother to feed again or feed 3?

Haven't even thought about that we got to a point where producing the same amount of food like 13 bushes (plus the soil is already 2 water for that) in 8 minutes for 2 water can be considered wasteful now

testo · 2020-03-31 03:55:13

pein wrote:

I mean you spend soil and tool use, so it's closer to 0.5 per corn, now seriously bother to feed again or feed 3?
Haven't even thought about that we got to a point where producing the same amount of food like 13 bushes (plus the soil is already 2 water for that) in 8 minutes for 2 water can be considered wasteful now

I get your point. Its weird because 1 corn+ 2 water for 3 milk buckets is wasteful compared to 3 corn for 3 milk but at the same time is super efficient compared to using the same water on berry bushes. You don´t even need to get the numbers tbh. I am happy we see more mooo in the game, either with corn or water.

pein · 2020-03-31 04:26:27

I member the times when the dream was having 11 buckets, one of them having 9 water
first, you fed the corn then water/milk it, repeat, remove one milk from each bucket and dump to the last one so you get 11x9 milk

it was never possible cause that required a focus for a minute where you had to water the cow and remove milk from first buckets and still continue
so I think I never did more than 9 buckets of milk and 6 of them saved from going to skim, and even if I did someone just messed it up by adding back the milk to it

with 3 is possible to do it alone, tho I had this guy wandering so I asked his help, he got me 4 shafts for the fences, not like I couldn't do it but he enjoyed helping so might as well, I told him how to paint the wall and he was proud to make it
he did miss out on the milking tho, so the water can get wasted without anything in return

similar pen for multiple cows would be possible, it would take 2 extra walls to host a non-moving cow simmetrically placed and 2 more for 4
I really just gotta figure out what items do I place for the cows which looks decent but hard to move

cachinnus · 2020-03-31 12:31:25

it's beautiful

Cogito · 2020-04-01 02:38:41

In calculations we really don't include people's time enough.

If you can quickly (at the cost of some extra water) get a lot of food that has enormous value as 'available food' is the one thing that allows your entire family to work on productive tasks.

If someone is able to get 9 buckets of milk in ~5min that frees them for extra work and it frees their entire family.

How do we go about quantifying this though?

What is the expected water production per minute of different tasks?

We have calculated units of water required (so negative production) per food pip, and you could similarly get to pips created per minute (based on time required to grow the crop). The one that is hard is water generating tasks, such as creating coal to fire the newcommen. Especially if you are biome locked, the main time cost in getting more water is travel - travelling to ponds, or exploring for an expert.

In any case, I think the calculus will more often than not come out on the side of creating more food quickly, so that you and your family can spend more time generating water.

pein · 2020-04-01 03:34:31

Well, that's kinda wrong, time won't matter as much as effectiveness.

Dead people don't eat, and alive people won't necessarily produce. Now you don't know the life expectations, but as long as your clothes are at home, you got a stable value of pips consumed per people per minute, and new babies just replace old ones.

People who leave town require portable food which is pies, people who stay at home are able to live on static foods.

As long as it's not essential to save your last girl, the collateral damage won't matter to the logistics, it might matter to the morale of certain people. You are always better producing big batches of foods since it's more effective, and always producing low water using high-efficiency foods. There are always mistakes in calculations and waste. Certain actions are worse than others.

What I generally try to do:
=reduce bushes by flooring around, digging out a few (it's so easy now)
-reduce carrot seeds to the last tile of five (7 seeds only means 7 tiles planted), too much carrot tiles lead to too much seed if they forget or people eat it cause it's there and hard to store it
-spread the food, no point placing all your crocks the same place, actually, people who got plans and work hard are always on outskirts since they need space to work.
-place raw food further from camp so when you strip down bushes they are forced to eat more effective foods, can backfire if you got no berries and they mass eating the carrot, seed row or the raw corn

you can not quantify how much water an action generates, but you can quantify how much it uses if you don't produce
so your pip usage is like 180 pips per person per hour, around 3-4 a minute times family members

ofc good organization helps with food production and preventing waste so berries should be central and shouldn't be around the well

other than the players who are experienced enough, the others might be a negative value for entire hour, you still need to pay the price for the desperate housewives

I guess corn/carrot/cabbage is quite dangerous plants cause need attention (leaving seed row where the carrot is, leave raw corn open, leave cabbage to seed) so the waste is way higher than people think
overeating left pies far from camp, dropped berries (they don't decay now but still)

thing is if you mass-produce you can easily go higher than 3 pips per person per minute even with berries (21 pips in 8 min per bush)
it's just costing too much water in the long run
too much-unused clothing can also be a problem since their cost could be turned into food (that's why they should decay eventually with the ability to to wash them and extend decay timer a bit)

milk is way too effective and that's why people don't do it cause then nobody has to do anything
people who don't do anything are more likely to quit or murder others

mutton pies and stew is a lot of work but highly effective so you can spend a lot of time with them, fast workers attract fast workers and motivate others to work

so in an ideal world, saving the water and making the most effective foods is better, in reality, there aren't that many jobs to do so saving time for others won't matter unless there is a crisis
lot of people just eat berries and don't care until they have to care

newbees cost you but at least they are cute and teaching them will tun them into good workers
rp fucks who pretend to be a newbie and soft griefing and chatting will cost you a lot but that balances out the workload (if you have more than one farmer, then they can still sustain those leeches) but they tend to also eat better foods if it's in vicinity
so the real water saver is a good city organization where people who care enough within limits, to eat the better value foods if available

and that saved water should be turned into milkweed to help the organization with tables and boxes

I farmed enough so I will rarely do that or cook anything in the oven I can still get them wild wheat, organize plates and get them mutton meat

Berries are still the most common and that's why they are a point of reference
that's why we should build a huge boarded zone and carry most foods there so people can hang around eating it and reduce the number of bushes

or better yet, have multiple zones with food access, one big in middle, 4 small on corners, 4 more on sides so people can access them and don't have to rely on the static bushes
yesterday I saw 9 crocks in one place, that's a lot of food and good effort to make, but there is no space to work near it so nobody will work there so nobody will eat there

something like this would make it more likely that people eat the right foods

instead of storing in the kitchen, we should have a block of tiles which just contain ready to eat food

the other thing I did the other day was 2x3 pine floors with a tool next to it
one was branches, stumps and anything that can be cut for kindling, the other was butt logs to turn into boards
both of them was quite effective but eventually, they turned them into rooms. If you floor it down it's kinda likely it will happen, but then you got to make sure a wall fits around structures like this.

Gonna try to stick a wall in the middle of 3x3x4 berry bushes (if has no cistern or well) then remove the vertical bushes, then add floors, tables, fill it with other food and just feed the rest of the berry to sheep.

Last edited by pein (2020-04-01 13:13:08)

Cogito · 2020-04-01 04:10:25

I agree with what you've said, and there needs to be better organisation to promote better play (and to shift the meta away from berries).

pein wrote:

Well, that's kinda wrong, time won't matter as much as effectiveness.

The thing is, there is one main resource in this game, and it is your life.

As long as there are productive things to be done, successful towns will be the ones that are able to spend the most time on those productive tasks (sans RNG factors if there are any).

Organisation is productive because it promotes better/more efficient game play.

Road building is productive because it allows more efficient resource gathering and exploration.

Mining is productive because iron.

etc

The discussions on water-efficient foods is a good one, because water can be such a bottleneck. Other things have a large impact on water consumption too, though. For example, wearing clothes is super water-efficient. If someone can make a lot of food very quickly but slightly water-inefficiently, and then makes a lot of clothes, their water-score should end up positive.

The problem I have is I haven't seen any good way of calculating this 'water score' except for specific foods, and to be fair it's probably impossible to quantify the value (in water) of building a sheep pen.

My main point is that we should consider pips per water per (amortised, production) minute, in addition to just pips per water.

As an extreme example, if there was food that gave 1000 pips for 1 water (wow, amazing!) but took 20 minutes of actual work to produce than the pip/water/minute value would only be 50 (still good I guess?). Now if it was possible to produce 20 of this food at the same time, taking on average 1 minute per food (though still 20 minutes game time) the pip/water/minute value would be 1000.

Yes we need to be water-efficient, but work-time-efficient is also very important. I mean, that's the whole basis of the industrial revolution.

pein · 2020-04-01 13:21:39

Yeah, mango is like that, even if we had enough water, 1 hour wait timer made it quite crappy, now it's even worse that is limited to brown people and I think even only jungle planting
haven't seen any in a while, it's like the old berry bushes which were 6 berry per hour

as I said, there aren't so many jobs to do, you can make a road but eventually, it's just collecting flat rocks, it's limited by resources not time or work
mining is done so quick 2-3 people do it in a lifetime
there isn't really much to do, no goals no upgrades after that

pein · 2020-04-03 21:25:39

This new design needs 2 blades for the rail, it's quite cheap to cover 12 tiles with 2 iron, also one person won't remove it, needs 2 adze so it really sticks

I stopped playing around the time of the new rail mechanics so I didn't tall knew what's what
I can imagine rails as a corner piece for pens, they can bend into shape with fences, the only things is that you either make 3 pens with 4 entrances or 2 with 6 entrances or one with 6, one with 4 and 2 for cows for example

Elsayal · 2020-04-03 21:35:24

"milk is way too effective and that's why people don't do it cause then nobody has to do anything
people who don't do anything are more likely to quit or murder others"

This statement is so wrong

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-03-30 18:46:34

Made my signature cow pen again

#2 2020-03-30 19:34:08

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#3 2020-03-30 19:47:30

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#4 2020-03-30 20:51:19

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#5 2020-03-30 21:32:05

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#6 2020-03-31 00:57:23

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#7 2020-03-31 01:04:10

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#8 2020-03-31 01:40:30

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#9 2020-03-31 03:04:27

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#10 2020-03-31 03:55:13

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#11 2020-03-31 04:26:27

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#12 2020-03-31 12:31:25

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#13 2020-04-01 02:38:41

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#14 2020-04-01 03:34:31

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#15 2020-04-01 04:10:25

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#16 2020-04-01 13:21:39

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#17 2020-04-03 21:25:39

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

#18 2020-04-03 21:35:24

Re: Made my signature cow pen again

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