Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

pein · 2020-03-23 02:29:58

Calculations here
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 748#p91748
if I haven't mistaken

With the nerfs to food bonus, berries are 40% worse since it's 3 food without the +2 bonus

Carnitas only needs corn which is 0.2 water per corn per pig, which is 4x10 food so one water produces 200 pips.

Since the endless water nerfs, compost doesn't produce much value, so the mutton pies are way worse profit if the water is the bottleneck. If you can go through the hassle of getting iron, ropes, wild wheat, wild berries, soil piles, for the sake of saving the water, there is literally no benefit of static jobs, cause all comes down to the water costs.

I would be interested in a fresh pip per water food comparison.

The biggest issue that most activities feel so useless this way. When we started the game, a hard worker could produce a lot of berries, compost etc.
Raising the difficulty for veterans raises the difficulty for newbies too. The focus is entirely on efficiency and not the intention or hard work of players.

Logically you just need to produce the most food from your limited water resources, it won't decay so there is no reason to maintain something. This makes inefficient players useless. Kinda the wrong message to tell that their hard work doesn't matter, but that's the case. You can't keep up with water upgrades cause it's out of your hand. The water is the bottleneck and it affects top tech and bottom tech in every era. So you either sacrifice your life to do the upgrades or go around telling them how ineffective their actions are. Good way to get killed.

Last edited by pein (2020-03-23 10:40:06)

testo · 2020-03-23 07:12:16

I thought it was 4 corn per plant?

Carnitas is still second best food in the game, milk first and mutton pie is best of portables (mostly because it is 4 servings per slot). Shrimp and rabbit pie are similar and and they are also ok for portables, even if you have to bait rabbits with berry and carrot. Stew is ok but not near close to carnitas or milk. French fries are ridiculously good but they are too small servings to be considered containable as the pies. Turkey is free and broth is close to stew. Even if you milk the thirsty cow with a full bowl of water you are still better than stew and mutton

Watch out for considered "good" foods which are not that much better than berry (Berry is 3*7=21 pipes per water and soil). Bread is like 48 pipes for 2 water, so pretty bad. Bean burrito and baked potato are close to bread (around 25 and 32 pipes per water). Dont overdue bread!!

pein · 2020-03-23 11:27:28

yeah my bad, dunno why I remembered 5

shrimp is okay but not renewable, plus the nets cost fleece

yeah bread is quite bad, it's okay if you use wild wheat but it's the same thing as making pies
when I do baking, I dump the first dough on a plate and leave it be, that way it won't convert to bread and the bowls store it until you don't have enough plates

the baked potato gives yum for the other half so can be considered 9 pips, that's 45 per water, uses more soil tho, which is 1/6 water so
30 potatoes for 7 water, that's around 38.5
wow french fries are 30 food for 0.20 water so 150 pips
sure you need palm oil, and you even lose it, so maybe you need to do more at a time, at least 10 potatoes per oil if you are not brown (you can dump the palm kernels outside the jungle and they won't decay)

ketchup seems a lot of work but seems to worth it

also, tomatoes are better now than berries

testo · 2020-03-23 13:39:17

pein wrote:

yeah my bad, dunno why I remembered 5
shrimp is okay but not renewable, plus the nets cost fleece
yeah bread is quite bad, it's okay if you use wild wheat but it's the same thing as making pies
when I do baking, I dump the first dough on a plate and leave it be, that way it won't convert to bread and the bowls store it until you don't have enough plates
the baked potato gives yum for the other half so can be considered 9 pips, that's 45 per water, uses more soil tho, which is 1/6 water so
30 potatoes for 7 water, that's around 38.5
wow french fries are 30 food for 0.20 water so 150 pips
sure you need palm oil, and you even lose it, so maybe you need to do more at a time, at least 10 potatoes per oil if you are not brown (you can dump the palm kernels outside the jungle and they won't decay)
ketchup seems a lot of work but seems to worth it
also, tomatoes are better now than berries

- When I do math on potatoes I always do x4 for each row, because you need one potato to plant the next row.

- Shrimp is good because you carry four servings per item and you get a value close to rabbit pie. Also you get free meat from the repair fleece, it does a nice combo with mutton pie.

- Baked potato only makes sense for heavy yummers. They are not horrible but still worst than milk, carnitas, mutton pie, rabbit pie, shrimp, stew and turkey broth.

- The only reason bread is not horrible is because you still need straw for compost so theres always some grain for free.

pein · 2020-03-23 14:03:36

well yeah, the seed is using up the potato, wild seeds can worth something I guess

then it's 5 seed 5 rows for 6 water 6 soil and one extra water for the extra soil
so the value is closer to 32.14 and the fries are still 3 times that

since composting isn't good as before, waiting on the excess grain is better than using it up for yum foods
would be nice to feed horses with grain to breed them, like 2-3 times until they grow, could take an hour even
jason just adds thread baskets but doesn't add a sink for grain which is weird

bpskotch · 2020-03-23 14:53:41

“Heavy yummer”
Yep that’s me right there. Unless I’m using the power of calcium to kill swamps

Baked potato can get me some serious bonus pips later in life.

Last edited by bpskotch (2020-03-23 14:54:57)

miskas · 2020-03-23 14:57:59

Pein Didn't saw any Spreadsheet so here is mine , ( it is updated) it has also clothes stats.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … 6&range=A1

testo · 2020-03-23 15:00:13

bpskotch wrote:

“Heavy yummer”
Yep that’s me right there. Unless I’m using the power of calcium to kill swamps
Baked potato can get me some serious bonus pips later in life.

I ship any heavy yummer even eating a bowl of cooked beans, because chances are they are helpful to everyone else.

Last edited by testo (2020-03-23 15:01:09)

testo · 2020-03-23 15:08:18

miskas wrote:

Pein Didn't saw any Spreadsheet so here is mine , ( it is updated) it has also clothes stats.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … 6&range=A1

Yeah I forgot about pumpkin pies, they are pretty good too.

Thanks for sharing, most numbers go as we said. However I never make strong calculations because there are too many small freebies you can take, rabbits are most of the time a byproduct as well as mutton while wheat and some seeds can be taken for free around the map.

pein · 2020-03-23 15:16:26

I try to logically follow up the paths, that makes it more clear than just numbers
also you can convert iron into water by calculating the kerosene costs, but in gameplay makes no difference now that we are out of the rift, it's just wasteful to use kero for iron

if you want to replace berries, you need a simple enough system that newbies can follow

you should tone down the food per unit count since the bonus is removed, that changes up things, nice spreadsheet otherwise

x_Raiema_x · 2020-03-23 17:28:28

how do carrot pies stand on water usage. i mean one water grows five carrots, and two waters to make the dough for four pies and one carrot left to replant. I feel like its a pretty decent food most people are reluctant to use. but idk i've never looked too far into the math of things. mutton pies are indeed great but you need almost a full berry bush and the carrots, so thats two waters plus the two to make the dough. I think carrot pies may out weigh the mutton, but ofc with yum bonuses its best to have the variety.

testo · 2020-03-23 18:36:11

x_Raiema_x wrote:

how do carrot pies stand on water usage. i mean one water grows five carrots, and two waters to make the dough for four pies and one carrot left to replant. I feel like its a pretty decent food most people are reluctant to use. but idk i've never looked too far into the math of things. mutton pies are indeed great but you need almost a full berry bush and the carrots, so thats two waters plus the two to make the dough. I think carrot pies may out weigh the mutton, but ofc with yum bonuses its best to have the variety.

Theres no doubt mutton pies are superior to carrot pies. Theres no doubt mutton pie is the best portable food in the game.

pein · 2020-03-23 19:21:30

x_Raiema_x wrote:

how do carrot pies stand on water usage. i mean one water grows five carrots, and two waters to make the dough for four pies and one carrot left to replant. I feel like its a pretty decent food most people are reluctant to use. but idk i've never looked too far into the math of things. mutton pies are indeed great but you need almost a full berry bush and the carrots, so thats two waters plus the two to make the dough. I think carrot pies may out weigh the mutton, but ofc with yum bonuses its best to have the variety.

carrot is same as berry if done right but it's easier to mess up since it has a time limit
too much seed creates clutter, too little breaks the cycle
also a waste if you don't do carrots 0 or 5, I guess it still gives 5 seed but not 7 when you et an incomplete row go to seed

so it's same 21 for carrot and 35 pip per water when made into pie
it's fairly decent early game when you start the eve camp and get some wild wheat

variety doesn't matter much tbh, especially carrots is bad for that, since people need to eat it to free up space when someone goes ham planting it
people are like: "h, there is 40 carrots, I just eat 3 then"

miskas · 2020-03-23 19:49:45

pein wrote:

I try to logically follow up the paths, that makes it more clear than just numbers
also you can convert iron into water by calculating the kerosene costs, but in gameplay makes no difference now that we are out of the rift, it's just wasteful to use kero for iron
if you want to replace berries, you need a simple enough system that newbies can follow
you should tone down the food per unit count since the bonus is removed, that changes up things, nice spreadsheet otherwise

I had converted iron to water before but I separated it again once we don't convert kero to iron anymore.
Food per unit is calculated with a function and the Bonus = 0 in that function.

What do you mean by Simple enough system? "if you want to replace berries, you need a simple enough system that newbies can follow"

A simple enough system of food production, or of food value representation?

Last edited by miskas (2020-03-23 19:50:06)

Elsayal · 2020-03-23 23:43:50

pein wrote:

also, tomatoes are better now than berries

thanks.

So what are the berries needed for ?
Not soil.
So for backpack and whool / mutton I guess.

Is it possible to not plant berries, so near a nice natural berries spot, where you keep the pen ? Then teach the kids which food to pick and restrain the use of berries maybe.

pein · 2020-03-24 00:57:19

that's weird, first time I clicked that link it was different numbers with the old +2 bonuses, now is fine I guess except the popcorn

there was a funny comment in tropico when you tried to do tourism and military: "This is modern art, you will love it, you will love it, like your life depends on it until it becomes mainstream..., then you will hate it"
It's kinda the same with this game.
When we started we had no clue how to do things so you just had to invent the initial setups and repeat until it sticks. I was an advocate of sheep pens early, and people realized eventually it's importance, other things like double kilns for smithing, cisterns. It wasn't something the overall players would do normally but after showing it that works, how good it works, people start doing it.

Some stupid stuff also sticks, like this 3x3 farms, 4 of them around the well, when you obtain 40-50 bowls of water from a well then never use a bowl on it.
Then when something becomes meta, you can go a bit more creative with it, or go higher and do more high tech stuff as default need for a city hoping it sticks like cow pens with storage or wolf farms. Seems that people can only do things one way, when I planted checkboard berry farms lot of noobs were like why not huge farms where you can't put down a bowl. When I did front entrances to sheep pen why not berry bushes on corner? when I used trees as part of sheep pen knowing that I upgrade it before I die, someone griefed it to show it it can be griefed, I was totally aware of it but wouldn't save me time to do stupid fences I need to remove anyway.

The issue with the game is that things change without notice or barely any like live dev changes has it and forums sometimes, but lot of people don't know about it, sometimes is so small things you kinda forget about it until it counts, even Jason forgets his changes.

It all adds up and eventually throws things off balance.

The overall meta depends on the average player skill and knowledge. Back before the berry bushes were a different ecosystem, where noobs could thrive and others save time by not doing it, but now it hurts others just letting them do it. Jason nerfs based on the top, but there is no clear line in tech levels so the top hurts the bottom and there are no good tools to combat stupidity, control the herds.

Smart players should be able to correct mistakes. Convenience and easy mode were part of the berry munching meta. But you can never get rid of it if the bushes grow always back and removing them costs water without benefit.

from your list, lot of foods are locked behind races, time-intensive, labour intensive, tool intensive, a higher margin of errors (corn and carrot, cabbage)

milk is op but 90% of the players can't milk a cow, buckets get stolen, hidden
carnitas needs more bowl than the average town has, people use knives to kill each other not to kill sheep or pork
the organization of the meet is still bad (seriously Jason it still looks the same as sheep meat for the newbees)
6 of the foods is now race locked (forgot the lock on french fries) or way too complex and still worse than berries overall.
The bush technically stores the food and it looks nice to have some green bushes around. people don't even know how to eat things, took me like 30 minutes to teach a newbie kiddo to eat stew and pies, she was still at a phase where went out with a basket to get soil and munched berries trough adulthood, not being able to use her backpack.

pein · 2020-03-24 01:27:25

Elsayal wrote:

pein wrote:
also, tomatoes are better now than berries
thanks.
So what are the berries needed for ?
Not soil.
So for backpack and whool / mutton I guess.
Is it possible to not plant berries, so near a nice natural berries spot, where you keep the pen ? Then teach the kids which food to pick and restrain the use of berries maybe.

just the sheep, really need to tone down that composting, you do it when you really need it but technically you should be able to just get more soil from wilderness with an upgraded horse

even for backpacks, you rather go and get baskets of burdock and don't use berry bowls for it

I think you would need a feeding zone, just like berries, maybe a few more places in town, where you collect food and tell kids what and how to eat it.
I don't think you could get rid totally of berries, someone will plant it eventually. So might as well plant some, maybe double or triple floors could prevent overplanting. Say 2x2 bushes then 2 wide roads between already cover a huge spot for 16 bushes and hopefully nobody rips up floors just to plant more

with pine roads is doable fast, maybe even dig up sides around the well and limit the bushes to less than 16 and floor down the rest
maybe even 3 wide and place tables or pillars with slot box with food on it so they got options

This would make a decent town center and people would know to return to "berries" but eat other food if avaliable

then every time you see an adult eating berry, ask if they know how to eat pies, I used to joke around that they should not eat sheep food.

I guess you could technically run a pine road next to each wild berry and store some carrots and bowls next to it

the pig farm should be way more meta now that you can eat carnitas directly
like boxes with bowls, a pile of kindling, boxes near pig pen to store meat so you can cook like 20 at a time, maybe a flooring, say 4x4 stone floors, and wood floor around, only for storing the carnitas there, not on tables, just on floor so anyone can pick one up dump the bowl in a box and the nursery right above it so you can explain to babies that the main food of this camp is carnitas cause you so posh and not a kosher and fuck vegan munchers xD

Elsayal · 2020-03-31 09:34:06

miskas wrote:

Pein Didn't saw any Spreadsheet so here is mine , ( it is updated) it has also clothes stats.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … 6&range=A1

If I'm correct, you didn't take into account the hungry work for mutton / pork. Meaning -10 pips for 4 pieces of pork / mutton. So -2.5 pips per carnitas, mutton pie and so on.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-03-31 12:17:06

Killing pigs isn't hungry work.

Btw, the idea of "main food in this town" is pretty clever. Could even make a sign saying that's the main food.

Whole milk is still way better than carnitas, and requires less work. Would be nice to have a few buckets dedicated only for milk and somehow encourage people to drink it and make it constantly.

Also we should use milk before it gets nerfed

pein · 2020-04-01 01:18:41

miskas wrote:

....

I see that you don't have separate numbers for further processing them

popcorn is 4 not 3
and I guess french fries way better than fries
carrot pies better than carrots

you left out a few things like the triple pie but I wouldn't make that or even the compost pie

but would be interesting to see how grapes or icecream compare

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-03-23 02:29:58

Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#2 2020-03-23 07:12:16

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#3 2020-03-23 11:27:28

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#4 2020-03-23 13:39:17

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#5 2020-03-23 14:03:36

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#6 2020-03-23 14:53:41

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#7 2020-03-23 14:57:59

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#8 2020-03-23 15:00:13

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#9 2020-03-23 15:08:18

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#10 2020-03-23 15:16:26

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#11 2020-03-23 17:28:28

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#12 2020-03-23 18:36:11

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#13 2020-03-23 19:21:30

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#14 2020-03-23 19:49:45

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#15 2020-03-23 23:43:50

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#16 2020-03-24 00:57:19

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#17 2020-03-24 01:27:25

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#18 2020-03-31 09:34:06

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#19 2020-03-31 12:17:06

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

#20 2020-04-01 01:18:41

Re: Carnitas is 8x better than berries and almost 2x as mutton pies

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