My worries with the homesick update

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-03-11 19:29:43

So I'm not going to make a long rant on my opinions on this whole thing. I just want to point out problems I see occuring.

Language. It's going to be impossible to learn languages with the current way we learn them. I say revert it to the old system of speaking words near babies until you can come up with a better system. BUT JUST USE WHITE PEOPLE? Yeah that's completely unrealistic. Drag someone away from their town to translate? No one will do that.
Pen and paper are the obvious best choice I guess, but I've always have trouble getting people to actually read my notes. It requires me picking it up over and over near them and it's a frustrating process and unless you have a rubber ball you can't understand what they say back. PLUS that's a toolslot down the drain.

Oil is the next problem I see. With the oil nerf gingers are going to have a tough time keeping 3 extra towns going. They're going to constantly need to collect oil for other people and that means they need to be outside their homezone because oil is going to get further and further away. Seriously, people are just going to come in and steal all their oil over and over and then they have to make a new pump. It's going to be hell. I'd say at least remove the oil nerf until things settle.

Spoonwood · 2020-03-11 19:40:00

Didn't you say not too long ago that you hadn't played for two weeks and were happier/better off? Maybe you were on to something then Slinky.

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-03-11 19:42:45

I HAVE been playing recently. I lived 3 lives last night alone.

There is always only 1 town, so it seems like it has a ton of water all the time but that's because there's only one town. It doesn't take a lot of effort. With at minimum 4 towns needing to exist with the next update water is going to be a struggle.

Dodge · 2020-03-11 20:15:30

I agree on the white issue but regarding oil i think it will be interesting to see what happens since each village will need oil or water in some way how is each village going to protect these ressources.

Oil thieves, water thieves?

But also i think the diesel pump should bust it's belt when using it otherwise you dont have anything to give to the gingers that they really need in exchange of their oil.

And since kerosene is more rare than rubber, palm and sulfur that is pretty abundant they wont just give it if they dont need to and will keep it for themselves.

Another worry is that some players will cheese the need for oil by digging other wells and get their water to bring it to the village instead of trying to get oil some way.

Trying to get the oil from another village by any means pacifist or not is more interesting than some guy riding a horse, digging a well and bringing all the water back to his village.

Maybe oil should never run out but have some sort of cooldown timer to it, so you have a limited ammount of oil per x time.

Up to the players to use it wisely, instead of constantly having to relocate or go further to find a new tarry spot.

Maybe increase the tapeout radius of tarry so there is really only fery few tarry possible per village groups

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-03-11 20:33:51

Dodge wrote:

But also i think the diesel pump should bust it's belt when using it otherwise you dont have anything to give to the gingers that they really need in exchange of their oil.

No. The seal on the oil pump already breaks which increases the need for tires. This would be the most annoying thing ever.

Dodge · 2020-03-11 20:41:56

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

Dodge wrote:
But also i think the diesel pump should bust it's belt when using it otherwise you dont have anything to give to the gingers that they really need in exchange of their oil.
No. The seal on the oil pump already breaks which increases the need for tires. This would be the most annoying thing ever.

That's right, forgot about the oil pumpjack also breaking seal so gingers already need rubber late game on a consistant basis, still they dont need a lot of it, they might just stock up on rubber and then be good for ever but i guess that's fair.

Most important is that the other families need oil too and cant just cheese water some way otherwise it defies the whole point.

Then it's up to them to figure out how they are going to get that oil.

pein · 2020-03-11 20:47:57

is never interesting to see people stole the things you make or kill you for items

Dodge · 2020-03-11 20:52:20

pein wrote:

is never interesting to see people stole the things you make or kill you for items

It's not interesting if it happens randomly for no gameplay reason, like a griefer just destroying or stealing random stuff and hiding them.

But when it happens for an actual reason it's different, if your village as ressources that another village want then you will need to protect these ressources and if they are able to steal them then you can attempt to get them back one way or another.

It creates interesting situations as opposed to when it happens for no real reason except that the other player wants to be a dick.

testo · 2020-03-11 21:07:05

Slinky, I believe ohol is a metagame, a game about a game. Each new update Jason comes with a new riddle everyone has to solve in order to play. It´s a new puzzle every week or so to keep the oldies interested, because they get bored of solving the game over and over again. They want the survival challenge: ditch parenting and civilization building. You can see them around in the forum talking about "challenge" and "pressure". Rich dynamics mean conflict and struggle, everything you described is expected to happen and a desirable part of the game at this point. They are licking their chops to see how this turns out.

Legs · 2020-03-11 21:17:15

So, I had a couple of lives today that seem relevant to the topic.

First life, I'm born into a darkskin black village. Just as I grow hair my cousin runs into the bakery screaming for help. He's bitten by a wolf. I act fast and managed to save him. A few minutes later he walks up holding a wolfskin and makes a hat from it. A gift as thanks for saving him. He's older so I ask for his help lifting something heavy. I dig a big rock on the side of the road, split it and make stone blocks. There's a bell tower being built, it's three levels high and stable. Together we add another level. I remembered reading about chemistry on the forums and how you can make gold with alchemy. All the materials come from desert biome, so today I'm a black alchemist. I hopped on a horse and found that they were surprisingly easy to gather. At least around our small town where nobody recognized their value. I set up my station and got to work. It's one of those things that seems hard until you actually do it. A little of this, a little of that, some time in the forge, some time on the coals. Acids and copper foil and gold flakes. I'm some kind of supergenius.

Now, the town had a diesel well but obviously no kerosene. While I was working a ginger woman wandered into town and dropped two notes. We can help you get oil. We live four hundred NW. Nobody cared, myself included. I was busy doing science.

The second product of my alchemy is the final ingredient for photo paper. I've never taken a photo before so I wanted to try. I made a black box, a spring, a glass lense, camera done. Only thing I couldn't finish was the black cloak to protect my photo paper, because there was no way to get sugarcane for the dye. I remember a brown man wandering into town near the end, I asked him to help but never saw him again.

Second life, I'm born in a ginger family. Four hundred closer to the NW bell than my previous life. We had a newcomen pump with torn seal but no rubber. I headed southeast, found some dry springs and managed to locate the black family. I left two girls there- this would have been impossible if I was homesick. That was all I could give them, I didn't even know where to find a nearby tarry spot. There was no hope of my drilling oil in that life. I took a horse cart with eight rubber tires and went home at 40. Ran our pump eight times and filled a couple of cisterns. Left a map with the location of the black town with my family, explained the situation and promptly died.

Legs · 2020-03-11 21:40:17

So, some predictions.

Every town will rush a bell tower. That's the most beneficial thing. Every town will need translation stations, with premade phrases to aid transaction. Valuables will be stored in specialty biomes and families will settle in areas with a lot of that biome around. Their family's survive depends on access to these resources. It offers protection and prevents theft. Horses, sulfer, palm and latex will dominate the early game. During this time gingers will be poor and must hunt gold veins so that they can trade bells for sustainable rubber. Alchemy may become meta in black families for players that know how. White families will also be poor, but their translation ability allows them to leverage a greater number of people. Newer players that don't necessarily know the deal can potentially be recruited to provide valuable specialty resources.

Black and brown will be the power couple. Horses can not be bred, only tamed, so they will be extremely valuable as a non renewable resource. Horses are essential for travel, travel is essential for trade, trade is essential for survival. I have a feeling it's going to end up like the car in a way though... extremely valuable and expensive and oh some idiot just lost it in the woods a mile from town never to be seen again. That, or it'll result in the lynching of traders in black towns as everyone just assumes they stole the horse they rode in on. Black fams early game will hoard horses, providing only a trickle to other families in exchange for carts full of resources. Ginger fams late game will hoard kerosene in the same way. Maps and waystones will be standard issue as people struggle to find each other, communicate and trade. Everyone will be frustrated as nobody can do everything and many people fail to do even one thing. One person gathers, one explores and trades, one makes use of imported goods. Lots and lots of spinning plates that the family struggles to keep in balance. Each family gradually spreading further and further from each other as old towns die out and new ones search for untapped resources until entropy kicks in with the heat death of our ohol universe.

I'm most curious about how we're going to calculate the relative value of this stuff. How much is a horse worth exactly? How many buckets of latex does a bell cost?

Would you sell me your soul for a tank of kerosene?

cachinnus · 2020-03-11 22:44:34

Not sure why, but I just picture four towns as close as possible with a stockpile in the middle.

fug · 2020-03-12 00:03:44

cachinnus wrote:

Not sure why, but I just picture four towns as close as possible with a stockpile in the middle.

This is the most likely outcome. People just dump resources in the middle and the other races either hangout in the center and walk out for kids or take X and leave Y.

pein · 2020-03-12 00:33:40

I mean I don't fully understand the update

So far I read that you only get kids if you are home
that won't include males and old people or anyone who doesn't want them anyway

was a part in the updates where Jason said go home or make a new home
so I guess you can pseudo eve

the minimum distance would be 4 well sites on 200 tiles, that's not always possible but can be managed I guess, one horseman can just set up waystones and bells

it's just more restrictions and no mechanics added

fug · 2020-03-12 00:38:39

pein wrote:

I mean I don't fully understand the update
So far I read that you only get kids if you are home
that won't include males and old people or anyone who doesn't want them anyway
was a part in the updates where Jason said go home or make a new home
so I guess you can pseudo eve
the minimum distance would be 4 well sites on 200 tiles, that's not always possible but can be managed I guess, one horseman can just set up waystones and bells
it's just more restrictions and no mechanics added

It's about fixing the exploit of smart players just grouping players up to avoid the shitty racial restrictions. More crap, less fun essentially. Basically kills off any little fishing villages unless you move them really far from town or anything like little homes near towns.

Prepare for everyone to dick around the berry farm so they can potentially have kids instead of working.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-03-12 00:42:56

I imagine gingers making a wall around their town with property gates and live independently. Let other families suffer, it's not their problem. Someone could play as brown one life and give enough rubber supply to the ginger's family for their whole life. Another time as black and give them many horses.

I also imagine let's say a brown family's person reborning in gingers family. He/she steals all the kerosene and brings it to his/her previous life family, because he/she may feel more connected to that previous fam.

I don't think there will be much trading, just helping other families because of said connection from previous lives.

Last edited by Coconut Fruit (2020-03-12 00:51:42)

Coconut Fruit · 2020-03-12 00:50:34

Gingers don't even need walls around their town if they find a nice well spot with big tundra biome next to it.
Making a big town made of 7x7 rooms n tundra biome would have many benefits.

fug · 2020-03-12 01:08:38

Coconut Fruit wrote:

I imagine gingers making a wall around their town with property gates and live independently. Let other families suffer, it's not their problem. Someone could play as brown one life and give enough rubber supply to the ginger's family for their whole life. Another time as black and give them many horses.
I also imagine let's say a brown family's person reborning in gingers family. He/she steals all the kerosene and brings it to his/her previous life family, because he/she may feel more connected to that previous fam.

I don't think there will be much trading, just helping other families because of said connection from previous lives.

This is incredible smooth brain thinking. What if we just steal from our future lives! I'm sure that'll work out well :^)

Working together supplying each town with whatever they're missing is the smart move instead of trying to lock random shit up because dumby mcdumb is going to steal it to support his mud hut village.

Grim_Arbiter · 2020-03-12 01:16:32

fug wrote:

It's about fixing the exploit of smart players just grouping players up to avoid the shitty racial restrictions. More crap, less fun essentially. Basically kills off any little fishing villages unless you move them really far from town or anything like little homes near towns.

Prepare for everyone to dick around the berry farm so they can potentially have kids instead of working.

It still eliminates a one town system which is a huge problem. It's no longer qin town or bust.

Eve CAN make her own startup now and not have everyone just run to the bell. Sure it's STILL better to group around a bell to an extent, but now the world outside of the bell will definitely open up. The Eve actually has the option, "should I start my own place? Or should I go find an abandoned well" which is better than "oh I'm eve.. better run to the bell"

I see the positives too here and I've seen quite a few people not liking the ONE city policy that tends to happen now. I kinda didn't like it either.

Also tarrhed, anytime I'm ginger now I'm going to find a way to bring fishing to the other villages for ya. I'll do what it takes and set it as my mission.

fug · 2020-03-12 01:23:11

Grim_Arbiter wrote:

It still eliminates a one town system which is a huge problem. It's no longer qin town or bust.
Eve CAN make her own startup now and not have everyone just run to the bell. Sure it's STILL better to group around a bell to an extent, but now the world outside of the bell will definitely open up. The Eve actually has the option, "should I start my own place? Or should I go find an abandoned well" which is better than "oh I'm eve.. better run to the bell"
I see the positives too here and I've seen quite a few people not liking the ONE city policy that tends to happen now. I kinda didn't like it either.
Also tarrhed, anytime I'm ginger now I'm going to find a way to bring fishing to the other villages for ya. I'll do what it takes and set it as my mission.

My issue comes from if poor city planning occurs (most cities) then it's impossible to do family fishing villages as you'll be infertile (which is awful.)

Now instead of just qin town you'll have a bunch of slum like villages connected to a m ain big city or worse yet you'll see a bunch of noob villages where smart players flee to the big bell town to actually ignore the issues at the new player village. The fact you need to find an usused spring near a badlands, which is close but not too close to a big city makes the whole fun of fishing communities fade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R26u2qAQ57s&t=1s

The fishing area kind of sucks due to size but you cannot tell me that isn't the perfect overall setup. You've got a close knit family unit working in tandem to support each other and make sure everyone is successful. This isn't possible now due to you'd be infertile trying something like this and that's absolutely dumb.

Your homeland should cover a larger area to allow something cool like mini fishing village but this isn't possible because the main bell wells will screw insiders AND outsiders.

Less restrictions, more family related updates like fishing.

pein · 2020-03-12 01:41:41

people wanting to have fun is an exploit to jason, and he wants to fix it

he really goes the other way around, focuses on nerfs and making things less than before instead of adding something
motivating people trough rewards is better than setting stupid limits they can't overcome

fug · 2020-03-12 01:46:45

pein wrote:

people wanting to have fun is an exploit to jason, and he wants to fix it
he really goes the other way around, focuses on nerfs and making things less than before instead of adding something
motivating people trough rewards is better than setting stupid limits they can't overcome

Having choices isn't fun pein you should know that! You can only have fun by doing things that are insufferable!

Fun isn't picking your own destiny but doing whatever Jason decides is allowed. Don't be silly.

Gogo · 2020-03-12 02:28:00

Um... So Jason thinks we will take it like good little boys?

Players that actually bringing stuff feels alone (in their duties)... They are constantly being beaten in their asses (with more restrictions).

So...

What you get when you cross more boring stuff with a society that doesn't help?

You get what you fu** deserve. xD Number of players will drop. Something will be dead and I think it will be a game.

Last edited by Gogo (2020-03-12 02:31:12)

Grim_Arbiter · 2020-03-12 03:31:42

fug wrote:

Now instead of just qin town you'll have a bunch of slum like villages connected to a m ain big city or worse yet you'll see a bunch of noob villages where smart players flee to the big bell town to actually ignore the issues at the new player village. The fact you need to find an usused spring near a badlands, which is close but not too close to a big city makes the whole fun of fishing communities fade.

See I disagree there, about the slum village part, but we're just gonna have to wait and see.

I dont see the bell town being the size of a private server city, like one city servers city, or those old server 15 cities. I see bell town big still, but not WEEKS worth of concentrated work like it's been. I see smaller towns picking up the slack and getting better and bigger.

Part of what I like to do is leave a town with its own impression or imprint of me being there, and it sucks ass when its in the same spot the next week and me and everyone have built and overloaded way more space than we EVER have in this game. It would be one thing if other living towns were probable and bell town just got to big, but like I said right now it's bell town or bust. If you have a town right now that is not bell town, you can bet that everyone is going to eventually run to the bell and abandon it. So why try to make any town that wasn't the bell?

That is why I like this change.

I'm sorry you lost those aspects of fishing though, and maybe it should be a bit larger of an area.

Fishing to you in this game has to be comparable to fruitboots with me. So I understand your pain to a degree. I wish I had a pair every life, and you can bet your bottom dollar that if ANY opportunity presents itself to get them, I'll do what it takes. Obviously I cant have them every life anymore.. and a part of me wishes I could just VOG them in somehow.. but it did make the times that I do have them that much sweeter, and actually gave them considerable value to me.

Point is..brave this damn carrot and stick storm and we'll get more fancy things like those boots and more activities like fishing.

cachinnus · 2020-03-12 10:28:44

I know we're just spitballing here, but will Eves not have babies until they build a well? Or will you have babies if your family has no well?

… Can you raise feral kids to send packing to well sites? Is this a world domination sim? I want to be queen of the hive, please.

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#1 2020-03-11 19:29:43

My worries with the homesick update

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