Best town arrangement / design?

Gogo · 2019-12-22 23:41:05

I need some pictures, sketches or just tips. That kind of town need to be good looking and very practical.

This one bell town looks shitty and it's not practical.

For first, it lies on ugly biomes. Too large gooseberry farm. Smith waaay too far from fireplace. Too many way stones takes precious space.

There is town to the west and south from this bell town (not connected with road), with planted trees, greenish place, pine floors. Way better in my opinion. Although fire is in the kitchen (it even have smaller room down to kitchen, but people don't use it as nursery ).

Perfect desing contains:

1. best location for fireplace (near to kitchen / smith)
2. enough space
3. lots of green, trees, floors, decorations
4. fast roads to vital points
5. boxes for tools in good places
6. nice cemetery

Any examples? How best arranged town looks like?

---

Quick tip:

Nursery on the side of kitchen with a shelf on a wall.

Foods for moms from a cook! (avoiding people in kitchen) Yes, I know people don't use that room as nursery, but it's good example.

Last edited by Gogo (2019-12-22 23:56:56)

Kinrany · 2019-12-22 23:59:27

I think the biggest problem with city design is that there's never enough space. So:

1. Large, specialized workshops and warehouses with enough space
2. Roads between workshops for fast travel
3. Simple, intuitive layout for easy navigation

It's also important for the city to be resistant to entropy and griefing and easy to repair.

Legs · 2019-12-23 00:00:02

Berries, carrots then sheep pen all in a row so feeding sheep is easy. Sheep pen and wheat right next to the bakery for mutton and dough. Other parts of the farm in the opposite direction, or north/south maybe. With a building full of stew, wine, custards etc. Nursery near the berries with lots of boxes for clothes. Maybe near sheep too for the same reason. Smithing on the opposite side so there's plenty of room and no kids or heavy traffic crowding it. Cisterns, floor tiles and roads where appropriate. I'll link a quick draft. In reality towns develop organically and are never planned this well, but it's a fun thought experiment. I'm sure someone could come up with a more optimized setup with a little planning.

Kinrany · 2019-12-23 00:09:29

It's probably best to start with the most crucial workshops.
What are the most efficient foods right now?

Wuatduhf · 2019-12-23 01:15:53

Kinrany wrote:

It's probably best to start with the most crucial workshops.
What are the most efficient foods right now?

In terms of water-efficiency (since soil are iron are both far easier to acquire than water), the highest ranking foods that I've seen so far are:

1. Omelette
2. Turkey slices + wings
3. Whole Milk/Skim Milk
4. Carnitas
5. French fries + Ketchup
6. Slice of Bread
7. French Fries (Drops to 9th after EZ mode turns off)
8. Mutton Pie
9. Turkey Broth
10. Baked Potato
11. Pumpkin Pie
12. Cooked Mutton

All of the above items range from 2 to 4x more efficient pip-wise compared to plain Gooseberries, with the exception being the Milks (30x) and Turkey, which doesn't require any water at all and just an oven + knife.

Wuatduhf · 2019-12-23 01:45:31

Gogo wrote:

...

Yeahhh, the town didn't quite go as swimmingly as I would've hoped it would, but I guess it's still surviving and lasting as long as it has despite that? (and a whoooole lot of griefing)

This was originally the plan for Ursa Town (or Twobear Town), to have a bunch of existing buildings and doors in place next to Rabbit-holes that would help prevent people from accident-stabbing them out of place, but ultimately time ran out, and a lot of other griefing nonsensical-ness occurred, so we launched the town as it was at the time.

Originally, Twobear Town had a family in it with a good 8-9 Tired Horsecarts.

By the time regular people started inhabiting it and staying there 24/7, that was down to 2 Horsecarts. Now, it only occasionally has horses.

The biggest flaw in my eyes was not getting the farm shape established quickly, in the same way that Hub Town's farm design was established. People decided to...go crazy with the shapes and ended up making something else completely different. Unfortunately, I also saw after the fact that tile space availability also remained way too low, mainly due to the lack of boxes that should have been everywhere from the start.

I think the road network connecting the north and east-west sides of town did pretty good. No obnoxious connection to one of the doors, just a pathway to the most important areas. That's how in-town roads should be, imo. I thought that the road would solve the distance of rest of town from the smithy, but no, that was a horrible idea. Way too far from Nursery fire, made it a PITA for the blacksmith to have to run out and constantly get a new fire going.

In the end, I did get a lot of valuable data out of the town, namely:

1. If you're going to make an indoor smithy, you have to build external storage nearby or else the room will get way too occupied
2. Indoor smithies just aren't practical. People don't like the cramped work environment and it limits the places where it can be, even if it defines the areas that the smithy is
3. Outlining the farm tiles is critical to ensuring future work-space. No early outline = 3x3 or massive berry fields with little space in-between.
4. Sheep pen, Bakery, and Berry-carrot farms all being in tight proximity = fast turn-around times on wool/compost/mutton.
5. A Town can be built litearlly anywhere, even in the Badlands, as long as compost is started quickly enough and there are quality resources/buildings in the area to take advantage of the location.

pein · 2019-12-23 05:29:35

no fast roads inside the town, never, I guess no zoom players do that, but it's crap, more annoying than helpful
at least put stops to it
no fast roads around berry and front of doors or anywhere near the kilns, not 1 tile space, at least 5 away

the way stones there are used for the sheep pen, that's fine
no fire near kilns or people put babies there, they are annoying, they leave bones, cover, leave clothing

since we got pine floors, we should make much more of them preventing the farm extensions
2x9 bushes enough, I already hate the 3x3 default, do some creative plantations, nobody said berries need to be in a block
actually 2x5 is way better than 3x3x 6

well doesn't need to be middle of the farm, the cistern can be there, well is 90% used with buckets, not bowls

tree plantations: pine for firewood and needles, and maple for tools, fences, paper and pine walls

fuck the cemetery, make it like 50 tiles from the camp and don't bury everyone

kilns far from the baby zone, lots of boxes between to store clothes

carrot and berries are not food, teach the newbies

I really want to make some pie towers, just an adobe wall with a slot box on it with pies, if we could make 3 wide roads between farms, we could stick it into the middle of it, would save on the food
the carrot shouldn't be central or people gonna eat it raw, and waste the water on it, leaving a lot of seeds behind which is more wasteful than berries

sheep pen in a corner, near a badlands probably, to dump the bones out there, or any special biome

in the rift I made a few of this, it's compact and good for a small family

it ended up looking like this

the things I learned:
make it wide, not too tall
put floors so they can't overplant
since the oven was down, middle ended up being the baby spot, put kilns further, and storage above the oven, so people can have the babies there
using the well as pen corner (wall iI my case) was good enough, you can have the sheep, the berry there, some carrot and wheat

the main activity of a town is feeding sheep, making compost, so that's central
the stew can be a bit further cause beans are annoying
also spread the stew pots, it's annoying to walk back to eat
for example put one in the middle of the sheep pen, since people feed the sheep, they got an empty bowl

the cow pen needs to be 1x1, no reason to have more than 1 cow, only if you want to make yellow paint but you got to be brown to do that
and you can always leave the bison in a small biome 20-30 tiles from the camp so the dead calves won't bother you

I wanted this to be the baby spot since it has wine and milk, storage for buckets
people haven't really used it, I had fun in my female life

grapes are better than berry bushes since they can't be removed and can't be blocked, won't dry out
a cistern near wild soil spots or wheat farm or cow is great, anywhere you need water, even smithy

I like the megamutonator extension on pens, generally south side, two boxes, then a home marker or a bush or anything, even a door
you can cook some mutton fast when you don't need more pies

20 bushes are more than enough, explain to people to don't plant more before they pick all down, water it and soil it again
keep enough bowls near the farm so you got excess berries
you can't really stop newbies from eating it but you should try
carrots doesn't need to be produced en mass
you need 2 rows frequently not 10 al the time
plant them and use them up for sheep and rabbit food, don't keep them on ground, maybe 2 slot boxes, no need more

made this stew farm design twice, idiots in oretown ripped up the floors cause pine needle is so hard to find

since we got easy mode, popcorn, kraut and sew are multi bite foods, so they are more economical now

space things out, make a lot of floors with nothing on it, that helps when you got clothes, bones, and garbage all around
newbies die a lot of times cause they can put things down, don't make it worse for them, you can make a fast road on side of town and signs to things, but no need to run that fast inside town

gotta go fast to dat berry

Kinrany · 2019-12-23 06:23:48

Wuatduhf wrote:

...

Looks like there are three main options:

1. Find lots of ponds. Cook omelettes, turkeys and stew.
Free food, but limited supply, can be permanently griefed, and omelettes take a ton of space.

2. Cows and milk.
Very efficient, but can be griefed.

3. Potatoes and wheat.
Less efficient, but farms are hard to grief as long as you have seeds.

I guess mutton pies are also always available simply because every town needs wool?

Spoonwood · 2019-12-23 07:33:44

Kinrany wrote:

I guess mutton pies are also always available simply because every town needs wool?

Wool and compost.

Wuatduhf · 2019-12-23 08:28:49

Kinrany wrote:

Wuatduhf wrote:
...
Looks like there are three main options:
1. Find lots of ponds. Cook omelettes, turkeys and stew.
Free food, but limited supply, can be permanently griefed, and omelettes take a ton of space.
2. Cows and milk.
Very efficient, but can be griefed.
3. Potatoes and wheat.
Less efficient, but farms are hard to grief as long as you have seeds.
I guess mutton pies are also always available simply because every town needs wool?

I mean, any town location can do Cows, so idk how that applies here But yeah, my designs don't incorporate cows normally because I always treat animals as tertiary since they're usually space-intensive or item-intensive (Pigs for Carnitas take up bowls and space, while Cows take up Bucket supply).

Potatoes are pretty efficient; not ultra-efficient, but they're still better than a lot of things, especially if they can be cut into french-fries and dipped in ketchup. They can also help push a village into considering Yum chain'ing more, since the Full and Half-Baked potatoes count as 2 types. Thus, a village with a sustaining Brown family can produce 4 types of foods out of the potato.

Kinrany · 2019-12-23 10:41:05

I think it's extra important to consider things that are space-intensive during city design!
That's the point, right? To find the optimal placement for everything that takes space in the city

ollj · 2019-12-23 14:20:29

living in towns is a bad idea to begin with !

Jojigirl · 2019-12-23 20:08:34

I think the Kitchen should have a door leading to the sheep pen for easy access to Mutton, and another door leading to a fenced off area with a small "Kitchen/Sheep farm" with some berries, carrots, wheat and a stew farm. Easy to make pies and feed the sheep. Also you can make stew right there as well when not working on pies.

Or something like this with a food storage area to keep people from going in the kitchen to get food and getting in the way of the cooks.. Also the farm is accessible from the sheep pen for easy access to feed the sheep, instead of having to run through the kitchen.

Extra space from above can fit a Cow pen and pig pen.

Last edited by Jojigirl (2019-12-23 21:11:07)

Gogo · 2019-12-23 22:41:34

Wuatduhf wrote:

2. Indoor smithies just aren't practical. People don't like the cramped work environment and it limits the places where it can be

Totally agree.

pein wrote:

put floors so they can't overplant

Right! Didn't think about this one.

pein wrote:

you can cook some mutton fast when you don't need more pies

Not bad idea too.

Town I mentioned before. Looking nice, a LITTLE bit too cramped, but just a little. Milkweed farm (sort of hidden) in the upper left corner. Smith is 'separated' from berries, behind corn. Pein mentioned to never put road in a town, but what about speed up bringing the fire to the smith?

Empty area between bakery and sheeps, maybe for wheat, maybe for a cow.

I think towns doesn't need more than a square, more buildings / places are rarely used, they stand empty or unfinished.

Last edited by Gogo (2019-12-23 22:42:11)

pein · 2019-12-24 07:46:32

I always preferred the baker under the pen
the reason being is cause you don't cover it up while cooking the mutton if you got an oven there
but also because there might be trees covering stuff

people extend downwards of the pen, very common that the smithy is on a corner but then they build something near it, I guess depends on biomes too

I like when people don't do generic stuff, they adapt to the map, like a pen on a small biome or between biomes can separate the sheared and non sheared sheep and the goose, since the first is not biome locked the later two it is, that can save a few seconds on meat transport
which can be an issue if bakery is far from pen

but you can't make the pen anywhere, has to be on a side or corner so the dumped bones aren't in middle of the city so bakery has to be near it, not vice versa

buildings are still not the best for the town, I liked the adobe buildings with full wall storage but auto orient prevents that now

I guess you can still make every second tile a wall box and then add the sheep pen next to it, but order matters, so you got to put 2 or 3 walls which cost you 8 adobe and probably stakes, shovel
then smith 2-3 lime which is kiln axe and tongs
then 3 ropes for boxes and 3 boards which is mallet and axe
then if you got the 3 pillars with boxes, you can add door or wall and finish the sheep pen

the problem with this is that someone gonna make a shitty pen in the meantime
but if you got time for setting up the towers, you might just add a small pen next to it, which later can be extended

messed around in editor, and was weird

you can't really put wall boxes between pen and kitchen, cause you can't block sheep from inside then with an oven, or you need to put oven in top corner and miss a wall box, or lose a tile in pen, and can't extend if you make it out of fences, maybe just replace with boxes

maybe a weird setup like this

you can reach both pen and bakery from an entrance and pass trough meat from pen, I guess top box is not so useful
opposite site can be a normal box to store sheep food, and 2 columns of 2x5 berries

@gogo: use 2 shafts
once you take fire with a shaft, cook some plates or wait a few seconds, light up the other, you will got a burning shaft after the charcoal is done
either that or a second fire for the smithy, the thing is, that babies near kiln are annoying
you don't save much time running with a burning shaft on fast road, it's shouldn't be more than a minute away, and you do focused job on kiln, not running back and forth each 5 min doing 1 tool

@jojigirl
people make compost pies aka berry-carrot pies if you leave the bowls mushed anywhere near the bakery, looks very similar, so I would avoid taking berries and carrot trough the bakery
food storage is bad, you need to spread the food across the town
you just make people work even less
if food is not portable, it's annoying to have to walk trough rooms just to eat it

lot of people don't like nursery and oven being the same place
nursery needs clothing storage outside of it, a fire, rubber ball
I wouldn't even mind dogs if they can't get out so maybe pen-style nursery but I guess people would take pups out anyway

just a quick sketch: 3 way stones and 3 grapes
would block animals getting in (like bears or boars, other than Pitbulls or boars in hand while they small) or out (doggies stay inside)
would need 9 tiles to block with way stones or 3-5 from the inside (if a crock is there)

Sometimes I got tons of clothes and it's hard to dump them so wall shelves could help on that issue, dropping clothes so they can take it from inside, and you don't need to go in and open doors

as for cow farm:
-needs 1x1 pen so no dead calfs and multiple cows you don't use
-not in sheep pen
-give plenty of space around it, floor it down for example
-a small corn farm and a cistern
-milkweed farm
-planted trees (pine for firewood and butt logs)
-bucket shop
-bucket storage (wall shelves, not all slot box, maybe one or two for bowls and corn but 3 or more for buckets)
grape can go near it and few boxes for that too

my design allows dropping bowls of water and I can get alone up to 10 buckets of milk, generally, I stop at 3-5
milk is better than skim milk and whipped cream so better have 11 buckets, remove water and use it
then portion out 9 bowls of water
feed cow, get milk swap for a bucket, swap for the water bowl, take out one milk so doesn't go skim, repeat
you might need help to do that part, just dump one milk from each bucket to new bucket and you get a lot of food for corn and some water

that is ideal for the nursery too, it has to be in the open, or maybe sauerkraut crocks to space it out a bit
milk feeds babies and mothers, not a waste if a granma feeds some abandoned babies
firewood is close and better to teach kids to make milk than to eat berries all the time

miskas · 2019-12-24 12:26:07

Kinrany wrote:

It's probably best to start with the most crucial workshops.
What are the most efficient foods right now?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … d=40108206

I might do a logistics analysis for the best city layout. I had this in mind when I made the best food list.
The thing is that you don't only want to know which are the Synergies ( berries, carrot, sheep = meat/wool/poop)
But you also need to know the total production you need for the system to operate in max efficiency. ( production -> time and space)
also room for storage and infrastructure.

It is a very complicated task but I might do it.

Wuatduhf wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/p1PiBp1.png

COULD someone tell me what do you use to design those city maps, as Wautduhf did?
Is this an easy template or you use photoshop?

Last edited by miskas (2019-12-24 13:02:22)

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#1 2019-12-22 23:41:05

Best town arrangement / design?

#2 2019-12-22 23:59:27

Re: Best town arrangement / design?

#3 2019-12-23 00:00:02

Re: Best town arrangement / design?

#4 2019-12-23 00:09:29

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#5 2019-12-23 01:15:53

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#6 2019-12-23 01:45:31

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#7 2019-12-23 05:29:35

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#8 2019-12-23 06:23:48

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#9 2019-12-23 07:33:44

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#10 2019-12-23 08:28:49

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#11 2019-12-23 10:41:05

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#12 2019-12-23 14:20:29

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#13 2019-12-23 20:08:34

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#14 2019-12-23 22:41:34

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#15 2019-12-24 07:46:32

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