Everything runs out vs Everything is in a cycle

pein · 2019-12-22 18:28:31

Jason loves the idea of the slow burn, "everything runs out", a masochist way of living, whatever you do, everything gets worse, you can only delay it, eventually you lose everything. That gives meaning to thing. And the early game is nicer than ate game Or something like that.

We got that in the main principle of the game: you are born, you live a maximum of 60 minutes, you die. This never changed and never will, so everything is revolving around this.

In video games, progression should feel like a progression, things should have value, time converted into value, the high tech should be better than lower-tech, give you options. Resources should recycle, it shouldn't be easy but you should always have options, that would give people value.

Which one would you prefer? Everything runs out, or everything is part of a system, where nothing is lost just converted?

Cantface · 2019-12-22 20:41:49

Converted for sure, but I know realistically that resources aren't really infinite. Stuff can be recycled though so at least not all is lost. Maybe we need recycling lol. Idk.

Legs · 2019-12-22 22:37:49

Ideally the tech tree should allow progression into modern and futuristic technology so that "everything runs out" meets "people can find a way." A transition from oil to atomic power for example. That was the selling point of the game after all, content updates to stay ahead of the player every step of the way.

Here we are two years later still waiting on those atomic powered robots with laser guns.

jcwilk · 2019-12-22 23:03:59

The map is infinite but when you can only move at a certain speed for a certain amount of time that translates to a limited world. This is especially difficult in terms of transport as more than what fits in a horse currently equates to multiple trips or multiple people and scales linearly.

So, to leverage infinite world we need more sophisticated and powerful transport options particularly for moving objects. It doesn't matter if everything decays and runs out if there's reasonable options for retrieving materials from farther and farther sources.

The plane and car and track cart are nice attempts in theory but in practice they're useless and trivial to grief. Some manner of low tech, instant transport should be available for limited distances. One second irl is about one week game time so there's nothing thematically flawed about delivering goods 1km away over the course of "a week" by low tech means.

Kinrany · 2019-12-23 00:01:59

jcwilk wrote:

The plane and car and track cart are nice attempts in theory but in practice they're useless and trivial to grief. Some manner of low tech, instant transport should be available for limited distances. One second irl is about one week game time so there's nothing thematically flawed about delivering goods 1km away over the course of "a week" by low tech means.

Doesn't really need to be low tech. Just cheap, once you have the tech.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-23 03:22:28

Everything is in a cycle.

Keyin · 2019-12-23 03:29:39

Ideally I think a system should overtime increase in entropy without energy/matter coming into it from another source.

That said, rather than the 'Feast or Famine' binary we have now, I would much prefer a spectrum of gradual difficulty increase in resource extraction.

I made a thread about it a while back; instead of everything runs out have diminishing returns.

It's not that there is no more oil/iron/water, it just isn't feasible to extract from this old spot when there is a much richer/more convenient source to draw from.

That said, outside OHOL I would bet all I own the earth will never run out of iron/water/oil. There exists too much for us to consume it all, and much of it is buried too deep for us to feasibly extract.

Last edited by Keyin (2019-12-23 03:31:24)

pein · 2019-12-23 06:06:14

oxygen not included started off with a map that ran out of resources, whatever you did, eventually, you ran out of oxygen and water

people liked it much more when they changed that

you could technically go for 300ish days before, now is kinda infinite, I haven't played in a long while, I saw some steams where people got into rocket tech and left the planet

even crashlands had different planets, it could be fun

quests or Ai trader also could help with the resource management
you could sell pies for water for example

yeah, transport and travel limits resources, around 80 tiles from camp is too far with carts to go multiple times and horses get lost, stolen, noob pseudo eves leaving camp

if there is another settlement 160 or 200 away from your city, that also splits the resources

buckets were someone else's idea but I told jason that deep wells should be limited and needed by tech level
also, that water shouldn't be anywhere, should be some water deposits
I think it's better than at start when we made wells anywhere, we really had too much water
wells on ponds was a bit better, still too op

I didn't liked springs in theory but they worked out fine
the limitations to distance were really bad, especially the rift with 5 wells

the whole Newcomen and engine thingy was okay until the nerfs to tarry spots and kerosene

the race limitation and the rubber breaking is seriously annoying and not fun when people can't do it and one person gets all the rubber for it, like I made 27 rubber to empty the newcomen well

Spoonwood · 2019-12-23 07:40:35

pein wrote:

wells on ponds was a bit better, still too op
I didn't liked springs in theory but they worked out fine

I find this strange to say in light of recently blocked off wells on bigserver2. I don't view springs as working out fine, from what I've seen from ollj's report: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 419#p84419 and on wondible's stream. A Singular well or pump could could get blocked even if he makes it easier to move waystones, since some buildings require water to destroy, and even with the water one needs to be quick and have the right tool. One Spring One Town makes for an easy trap for griefers to exploit. The only thing that really I find surprising when I think about it is that we haven't seen this before.

Interesting point about ONI becoming more palatable to more people after they went away from a 'everything runs out' philosophy to a different, more expansive philosophy.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-23 07:44:29)

DarkDrak · 2019-12-23 11:19:15

I agree with Legs here. "Everything runs out" meccanic tecnically should be able to transition in "Everything can be recycled".

I like the idea that some things run out. Like, it's not like there's an endless ocean of oil under the soil. One should be able to hunt wild animals until there are none left in the area. Wells do get exhausted if overused.

But i don't like the idea that there are no alternatives. Like, we have domesticated animals as an alternative to wild ones. Why can't we have, for example, a wind turbine as an alternative energy source to oil? Why can't we have rain or rivers as an alternative water source to wells? Engine doesnt support them? So why can't we have huge, repelisheble lakes to get water from? or why can't we get water from melted ice?

Why can't we breed rabbits just like we breed geese?

Zombeh · 2019-12-23 11:58:39

Actually I kinda like the idea of wind-powered things or recycling a lot. Like how you can recycle two broke tools for scraps to make iron. What if this worked for other things too? Not to make things infinite of course, but to ease certain things.

Like rag, clothing could be recycled if you use shears or a needle and thread on it. Two rags = one rabbit fur or something? Or like the same item that was the rags. Like two rag loin clothes make a new loincloth, etc.

Lakes or rivers sound cool too honestly. Why stop there? Oceans would be neat, make a tech tree for making ships for long travel. Then we can all be pirates or feel like actual explorers. Ships and boats were a thing in history long before engines and kerosine. Load your family up in a big ship and set sail for better lands when the time comes. Lol.

Last edited by Zombeh (2019-12-23 11:59:42)

testo · 2019-12-25 03:43:11

Most of the times I start reading these type of threads with interest, then after thinking about what I could add to the disscussion I memeber everything around here ends up with a big FU anyways. Sorry guys, nihilism hit me strong this season.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-12-22 18:28:31

Everything runs out vs Everything is in a cycle

#2 2019-12-22 20:41:49

Re: Everything runs out vs Everything is in a cycle

#3 2019-12-22 22:37:49

Re: Everything runs out vs Everything is in a cycle

#4 2019-12-22 23:03:59

Re: Everything runs out vs Everything is in a cycle

#5 2019-12-23 00:01:59

Re: Everything runs out vs Everything is in a cycle

#6 2019-12-23 03:22:28

Re: Everything runs out vs Everything is in a cycle

#7 2019-12-23 03:29:39

Re: Everything runs out vs Everything is in a cycle

#8 2019-12-23 06:06:14

Re: Everything runs out vs Everything is in a cycle

#9 2019-12-23 07:40:35

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#10 2019-12-23 11:19:15

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#11 2019-12-23 11:58:39

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#12 2019-12-25 03:43:11

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