Farming as a last resort

Keyin · 2019-12-22 23:24:59

I recently decided to look into ancient Sumerian history because I didn't really know anything about it.

I found out that farming was something in Mesopotamia that was done as a 'last resort'. The evidence for this is farming took a relatively long time to become common practice- the fertile river valleys provided much with little to no effort.
Comparing modern day hunter-gatherers to modern subsistence farmers, hunter-gatherers spend a lot less time acquiring food than modern subsistence farmers.
i.e farmers do planting, growing, harvesting while hunter-gatherers just do the harvesting part.

Farming also lead to 'mono diets' where you only ate a few different things like wheat, peas, barley, and occasional wild food. Hunter gatherers ate dozens of different species of food. As a result hunter-gatherers were bigger and healthier while farmers got shorter. Hunter gatherers were able to cope with crop blights because one specie not being fruitful didn't have a significant impact.

The main reason they believe the switch to farming happened was there was so many people they needed to spread the good plants to places they didn't already grow so there would be enough food.

Now to relate this to OHOL:

I notice people destroying natural wild food sources like goose ponds/berry bushes and it makes me cringe at the sight.

Farming should be a last resort. If the population is too large maybe we should spread out? After all, unlike the fertile lands of Mesopotamia OHOL is infinite. Certainly don't destroy something that outputs food with the only input being time.

If everyone were playing logically this is what we'd expect to see over time:

With some families scattered in the middle, living on renewable food sources

I think a combination of the dogmatic way of thinking of farming>gathering combined with the infinite world, combined with the huge over simplification of farming, and undue limitations on hunting/gathering has put the nomad hunter gatherer lifestyle into a weird place where even despite all the nerfs and dogmatism hunter-gatherer is still the long term and short term best option(which we learned from the end of the Rift when oil ran out)

Another thing I noticed is the only way to sustainably have water production is actually have black/brown family, many cisterns, and prevent the transition of the well into a diesel well so you can use rubber to sustain farming. Once well is dependent on oil the town is doomed.

TL;DR / conclusion
Kill the destroyers of goose ponds/wild berry bushes and the builders of diesel engines, eat non-wild foods only in emergencies, organize in a way to enable inevitable migration, other strange but optimal behaviors you can think of

Kinrany · 2019-12-22 23:48:22

The game does not provide any incentive to craft anything at all. The only reason people make camps is because it's more interesting than running around naked and munching wild berries forever.

Gogo · 2019-12-23 00:00:18

Maybe a duck should spawn back to ponds? (similar to rabbit holes)

Last edited by Gogo (2019-12-23 00:00:26)

Spoonwood · 2019-12-23 03:26:03

Yum makes for an incentive to have camps. Also, making camps leads to more heat.

Keyin · 2019-12-23 03:34:30

Spoonwood wrote:

Yum makes for an incentive to have camps. Also, making camps leads to more heat.

Yum isn't as good as it was in the past. It won't help you compete for babies against other families, and the benefit of yum holding more food can be compensated for by using the 'overflow' mechanic with eggs.

pein · 2019-12-23 05:54:12

average estimated age was like 30 years that time, people died of diseases quickly, birth rates were high but lot of people never reach older age
so the population never rose too high, so they could eat wild food
farming did happen near areas with water where people built permanent homes

in the Mediterranean, they didn't need much heating cause it's all year good weather, so that allowed moving

mountain and steppe areas had ore livestock, it's more food output and didn't really have a problem with pastures when the population density is lower

ingame we could live off the eggs and wild berry I guess, but it's boring
ponds don't refill much or at all so clearing them to make space is generally a good option
but yeah, you could technically use the eggs and get water from elsewhere

Kinrany · 2019-12-23 07:04:38

Spoonwood wrote:

Yum makes for an incentive to have camps. Also, making camps leads to more heat.

Both are only useful for food and having babies. You have infinite berries, so food is out.
Babies are a tragedy of the commons scenario: doesn't matter as long as there are no towns. Still, you can make small camps and combine fires and wild food for perfect temp and yum of ~5.

pein wrote:

average estimated age

Child mortality being the main reason. Wikipedia cited this paper and claims that median lifespan was >46 for those who survived to 15.

> the population never rose too high
Population is limited by food supply, not lifespan.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-23 07:31:37

Kinrany wrote:

Both are only useful for food and having babies.

Keyin said above that birth mechanics had changed at some point. I'm not sure how they work at present, but someone has said 'round robing' to describe them, I think. If so, then yum doesn't, at present, help with making babies, does it?

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-23 07:32:32)

ollj · 2019-12-23 10:45:54

before urbanization, farming develops in genreral where ever multiple people get too old to migrate with the rest of the family, or where ever populations get too dense. these settlements are WAY too small and short lived to be called "villages"
age and higher population density have the effect of more stationary "temorary settlements" (usually onlky a few lucky generations of less than a dozen old or weayk/injured/sick people) , usually using alcohol/cheese to preserve food, just to have enough food to survive with diminished mobility.
these often drunk and way more stationary elders are than the foundation of locally bound culture, medicine/shamanism/religion, where usually a tradition is generated, where wisdom/religion/health is exchanged for donaions, usually food or wealth.

in ohol, farming anything but milkweed at the same place over and over seems to be inefficient, compared to mostly living off wild berries along a long road.

Last edited by ollj (2019-12-23 10:49:52)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-12-22 23:24:59

Farming as a last resort

#2 2019-12-22 23:48:22

Re: Farming as a last resort

#3 2019-12-23 00:00:18

Re: Farming as a last resort

#4 2019-12-23 03:26:03

Re: Farming as a last resort

#5 2019-12-23 03:34:30

Re: Farming as a last resort

#6 2019-12-23 05:54:12

Re: Farming as a last resort

#7 2019-12-23 07:04:38

Re: Farming as a last resort

#8 2019-12-23 07:31:37

Re: Farming as a last resort

#9 2019-12-23 10:45:54

Re: Farming as a last resort

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