Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

Spoonwood · 2019-12-17 11:03:32

OHOL is supposed to be a multiplayer survival game of parenting and civilization building.

Also,

jasonrohrer wrote:

The game takes place in the realm of thought experiments.
It is "in the future," because the thought experiment is about the future.
But this world is obviously not earth.... it is 50,000x bigger than earth, and it has no oceans. So there was no apocalypse here. There are no ruins.
The world is the imaginary space inside which this thought experiment plays out: "If we had to start over from scratch, but kept all of our knowledge, how long would it take us to get back to iPhones?" where iPhones are a placeholder for whatever sufficiently advanced tech we can imagine.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8576

But since bone needles arise only from eaten rabbit bones, never from a human corpse, or animal bones (would it be too much load on the game/engine if wild animals died naturally and left bones?), and rabbit furs are needed to make bellows, a vegan or vegetarian Eve or her descendants doing blacksmithing is currently impossible, at least one their own efforts. Thus, they are unable to play within the context of the thought experiment.

There is no material currently which can function as an alternative to rabbit furs.

Does the dead goose needed to oil the steel file blank fall outside of a vegan or vegetarian family? I don't know. That said, palm oil, cannot interact with a steel file blank, even though a bowl of berries can interact with a pie crust.

Clothing is so dependent on animal products. Right now, the only purely plant based form of clothing is the reed skirt. There is nothing like cotton, and water running out is a serious issue, is it not? Were an alternative to rabbit bone needles got put into the game, then clogs, and straw hats could work. But, there still would be no chest piece that does not rely on a dead animal. And they do not die naturally.

Alternatives to compost coming from sheep dung do not exist and there is nothing like a horsecart also in terms of its function.

Imagining that were it the case that bone needles could arise from a human corpse, I initially felt somewhat terrified at the consequences. It could provide an in-game reason to kill another player early and thus might lead to them never playing again or negative emotions. But, I suppose from another perspective, it might make for an interesting story. The family that chose to sacrifice one of it's family members to progress technologically. Or if the Eve or one of their children voluntarily sacrificed their own self, there is the story of the brave Eve or child who gave her very own life for the sake of others re-building civilization. These scenarios, of course, presume that no other bones lay around within reasonable distance.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-17 11:30:17)

Dodge · 2019-12-17 12:15:05

YES!, bone needles from human corspes, it all comes together now, "SELLING DEAD BABY BONES" finally has a meaning. Thanks Spoonwood

pein · 2019-12-17 12:32:21

online vegans, that what we missed

next up crossfitters

FulmenTheFinn · 2019-12-17 13:07:08

sigmen4020 · 2019-12-17 13:18:07

Just live of three sisters stew all day. That don't require no meat.

karltown_veteran · 2019-12-17 13:59:10

I suggest human skin for the clothing and bellows. Let’s go all cannibalistic on this bitch.

Lum · 2019-12-17 14:18:51

Veganism is only relevant in the context of late stage capitalism and the mass exploitation of animals.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-17 14:34:17

sigmen4020 wrote:

Just live of three sisters stew all day. That don't require no meat.

A crock pot is a sufficiently advanced technology to qualify as a placeholder for iPhones? lol

Gogo · 2019-12-17 14:49:03

Although it seems not serious, vege way of thinking is nicely exposed.

Sheep dung is sacred, while we can use humans as needles.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-17 16:05:59

Gogo wrote:

Although it seems not serious, vege way of thinking is nicely exposed.
Sheep dung is sacred, while we can use humans as needles.

So, I think I first thought about animal bones instead. Like, what if wild animals would die naturally? But wild animals exist all over the map, and I don't think it would work if they all died early on and didn't have descendants. So, it would seem necessary for baby wild animals to mature into adults, die, and then leave bones, and I guess the bones would disappear after a bit. It'd be new sprites say for some animals, for example for cow bones. It ended up seemingly like that idea would be computationally expensive and might lead to a clutter problem. So, then I thought about human character bones, and again it seemed troublesome. All too easy to justify senseless killing.

But the more I think about, it seems there's more potential here. After all, hunting a rabbit, cooking it, and eating it is the same thing every single damn time (at least if burdock is always used for bait).

But, it wouldn't be the same origin story if a bone needle could arise from a human corpse.

Early runner baby on an Eve run? There's a bone needle for the camp!

Maybe the Eve just didn't pick her first child up, because she needed a bone needle. Is she an irresponsible mom? Maybe. But, maybe she then can be more responsible to her other children early, since there's a little less pressure. Also, maybe she's not an irresponsible player, because she's trying to get the civilization building process going faster. And trying to make her family a little less fragile to collapse.

Maybe some griefer shot someone as early as they could for the lulz. But, soon starved after. Nice job griefer, you just made getting our Eve camp up easier! Though it's sad that Sally Boots had to go that way, she had so much potential.

Or some sort of human sacrifice. But how did the sacrificial victim die? Was it by a boar? A snake? A bear? A wolf?

Or maybe it's an act of bravery by one of the family members who committed suicide. But how did that brave soul die? By hunger? By a boar, a snake, a bear, or a wolf? Or a mosquito bite?

Or maybe some human bones were just found somewhere.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-17 16:28:33)

pein · 2019-12-17 16:40:59

online plants got feelings too, eat online rocks!

Spoonwood · 2019-12-17 17:29:57

Stone hatches everywhere! ... lol

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-17 17:30:54)

DestinyCall · 2019-12-17 18:15:05

pein wrote:

online plants got feelings too, eat online rocks!

But my pet rock has feelings too!

I just checked and right now, he feels cold.

Joseph Stalin · 2019-12-17 18:37:30

vegan dont matter

Saolin · 2019-12-17 19:26:06

So you're suggesting that vegans would find killing humans as an acceptable alternative to killing other types of animals? Something seems off with that line of thinking.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-17 20:20:16

Saolin wrote:

So you're suggesting that vegans would find killing humans as an acceptable alternative to killing other types of animals? Something seems off with that line of thinking.

A vegan family can't have one of their members eat a cooked rabbit (nor encourage anyone else to do so).

Saolin · 2019-12-17 20:28:21

Yeah but your suggestion to stab another human to get the bones probably wouldn't resonate with vegans either for the same reason killing animals doesn't.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-17 20:38:37

Saolin wrote:

Yeah but your suggestion to stab another human to get the bones probably wouldn't resonate with vegans either for the same reason killing animals doesn't.

1. Nope. No suggestion of stabbing another human. I'm assuming like an Eve camp starting from scratch. They can't make bellows without a needle, so there wouldn't be any stabbing.

2. There's different definitions of veganism. Under one definition, it's just a diet. So, killing another human for some purpose is not necessarily out of the question. So long as the person is not eaten.

3. Killing of another human doesn't resonate with vegans in general, including myself. But, I mentioned that idea as it shows how bone needles from humans coul have some potential for the game. Not for a camp against offensive killing. But possibly for another type of camp. One that believed that such a human sacrifice was the key to their future.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-17 20:39:57)

DestinyCall · 2019-12-17 20:56:41

Saolin wrote:

Yeah but your suggestion to stab another human to get the bones probably wouldn't resonate with vegans either for the same reason killing animals doesn't.

You just need to ask one of your vegan brothers to take one for the team. You don't need a whole body. I'm sure a pinky finger would work to make a bone needle.

Although, a very strict vegan abstains from the use of ALL animal products. Dietary vegans could use leather and animal hides. They avoid consuming meat and animal products, but might still wear clothes or use products made from animals or substances derived from animals. In contrast, ethical vegans avoid all animal products on ethical grounds. They reject the idea of using animals for human benefit.

A tribe of ethical vegans could live in pine wall houses, dress in reed skirts, and make fire. Their diet would be primarily wild gooseberries, supplemented by carrot pies, and three sister stew. I think they would be able to survive just fine. They wouldn't use much water, so they can gather it from ponds. Most of the tech tree is locked behind animal parts, so they have no use for iron tools or fancy gadgets.

The biggest problem would be dealing with non-vegan babies and outsiders. A vegan village would be totally defenseless, because ALL weapons require animal parts. And even if you could make a weapon, it would be wrong to kill a person. The only defense would be property fences to keep out non-vegans, migration or reincarnation to a new village.

I don't think survival would be a real problem, but boredom might be. Vegans would be trapped in perpetual Eve camps with no option to advance beyond stone tools and pond water, since iron requires animal products.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-12-17 20:59:43)

w0wma · 2019-12-17 21:02:42

jason could add hemp (for fibers) and marijuana (because marijuana). i mean... we already have magic mushrooms so why not go all the way?

DestinyCall · 2019-12-17 21:33:47

Adding hemp wouldn't change much for the poor vegans. The main choke-point is the bellows, which requires bone needle AND rabbit hide. For a dietary vegan, the bone needle is the bigger issue, because the rabbit must be eaten to reach the bones.

Food decay would solve this problem. Kill the rabbit, skin it, and leave it to rot down to bones. But ethical vegans are hard-locked from advancing out of the stone age, because rabbit hide is required for bellows. You can't progress up the tech-tree with clean hands. Simulated animal cruelty and parts collection is required.

At best, you could let someone else do the dirty work, but that does not remove the moral obligation. You are still benefiting from unethical actions.

sigmen4020 · 2019-12-17 21:55:21

I mean no civilization have ever sprung up from veganism. Can't afford to take the animals' feelings into account when you are starving to death.

I don't get why of all things Jason would need to spend time on this. This game has bigger problems right now.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2019-12-17 21:55:52)

DestinyCall · 2019-12-17 22:15:31

sigmen4020 wrote:

I don't get why of all things Jason would need to spend time on this. This game has bigger problems right now.

If Jason addressed problems in order of priority, we would be getting more storage options and milkweed fixes, instead of family specializations and supreme emperors.

We don't always get what we want, but if we try, sometimes we get what we need.

Saolin · 2019-12-17 22:42:27

Spoonwood wrote:

It could provide an in-game reason to kill another player early

Yeah I guess you never mentioned stabbing specifically...

Anyway if this is an issue that's important to you, then fair enough. I think there's bigger fish to fry though.

Last edited by Saolin (2019-12-17 22:48:46)

DestinyCall · 2019-12-17 22:46:49

Spoonwood wrote:

Gogo wrote:
Although it seems not serious, vege way of thinking is nicely exposed.
Sheep dung is sacred, while we can use humans as needles.
So, I think I first thought about animal bones instead. Like, what if wild animals would die naturally? But wild animals exist all over the map, and I don't think it would work if they all died early on and didn't have descendants. So, it would seem necessary for baby wild animals to mature into adults, die, and then leave bones, and I guess the bones would disappear after a bit. It'd be new sprites say for some animals, for example for cow bones. It ended up seemingly like that idea would be computationally expensive and might lead to a clutter problem. So, then I thought about human character bones, and again it seemed troublesome. All too easy to justify senseless killing.
But the more I think about, it seems there's more potential here. After all, hunting a rabbit, cooking it, and eating it is the same thing every single damn time (at least if burdock is always used for bait).
But, it wouldn't be the same origin story if a bone needle could arise from a human corpse.
Early runner baby on an Eve run? There's a bone needle for the camp!
Maybe the Eve just didn't pick her first child up, because she needed a bone needle. Is she an irresponsible mom? Maybe. But, maybe she then can be more responsible to her other children early, since there's a little less pressure. Also, maybe she's not an irresponsible player, because she's trying to get the civilization building process going faster. And trying to make her family a little less fragile to collapse.
Maybe some griefer shot someone as early as they could for the lulz. But, soon starved after. Nice job griefer, you just made getting our Eve camp up easier! Though it's sad that Sally Boots had to go that way, she had so much potential.
Or some sort of human sacrifice. But how did the sacrificial victim die? Was it by a boar? A snake? A bear? A wolf?
Or maybe it's an act of bravery by one of the family members who committed suicide. But how did that brave soul die? By hunger? By a boar, a snake, a bear, or a wolf? Or a mosquito bite?
Or maybe some human bones were just found somewhere.

Wild animals that naturally die and leave behind harvestable by-products would be the ideal solution from a sustainability and ethical standpoint, but definitely harder to implement.

...

Regarding the human option, I think the most ethical choice would be patience. Everyone dies eventually. The patient Eve would care for all of her babies and try to keep them all alive. If a baby dies naturally, its bones could be harvested for the good of the village. If none of her babies die, the Eve's bones can be used when she dies of old age. No sacrifice is needed. Only patience and the mental fortitude to use what is given without wasting the gift.

Other villages might judge you for making your clothing out of baby skin and the skulls of your elders, but they kill to survive. We all find life through death. At least the skull helmets and skinny shirts of vegan scavengers are cruelty-free and ethically-sourced.

Fun Fact - human hair makes incredibly strong thread or twine.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-12-17 11:03:32

Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#2 2019-12-17 12:15:05

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#3 2019-12-17 12:32:21

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#4 2019-12-17 13:07:08

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#5 2019-12-17 13:18:07

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#6 2019-12-17 13:59:10

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#7 2019-12-17 14:18:51

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#8 2019-12-17 14:34:17

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#9 2019-12-17 14:49:03

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#10 2019-12-17 16:05:59

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#11 2019-12-17 16:40:59

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#12 2019-12-17 17:29:57

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#13 2019-12-17 18:15:05

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#14 2019-12-17 18:37:30

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#15 2019-12-17 19:26:06

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#16 2019-12-17 20:20:16

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#17 2019-12-17 20:28:21

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#18 2019-12-17 20:38:37

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#19 2019-12-17 20:56:41

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#20 2019-12-17 21:02:42

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#21 2019-12-17 21:33:47

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#22 2019-12-17 21:55:21

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#23 2019-12-17 22:15:31

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#24 2019-12-17 22:42:27

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

#25 2019-12-17 22:46:49

Re: Problem: Vegan and Vegetarian Families Can't Play Correctly

Board footer